If John Elway was Peyton's GM during Colts days.

[PATS16N0]

As a Pats fan, it's hard to be impressed yet. We've had so many rivals come and go for AFC dominance. Denver is really just the latest.

We've had the Steelers come and go, the Jets come and go, the Ravens come and go, the Chargers come and go, even the Colts (although the Colts didn't leave for long, not that they're `competing` for dominance yet, but your downswing was brief and here you are again.)

 

My point is, all of these teams were praising all their moves at the time. Rex Ryan was the new savior of the Jets. Tomlin was the new savior of the Steelers. Phillip Rivers was the new savior of the Chargers, here come the Ravens, 2 AFC Championships in a row...

 

And now Denver.

 

They rise, they fall.

 

Let's see what Denver looks like in 2016, 2017, 2018, because they might just be right back to 8-8.

 

I'm really not blown away by anything Elway has done, or have I missed something?

[MAC]

As a Pats fan, it's hard to be impressed yet. We've had so many rivals come and go for AFC dominance. Denver is really just the latest.

We've had the Steelers come and go, the Jets come and go, the Ravens come and go, the Chargers come and go, even the Colts (although the Colts didn't leave for long, not that they're `competing` for dominance yet, but your downswing was brief and here you are again.)

 

My point is, all of these teams were praising all their moves at the time. Rex Ryan was the new savior of the Jets. Tomlin was the new savior of the Steelers. Phillip Rivers was the new savior of the Chargers, here come the Ravens, 2 AFC Championships in a row...

 

And now Denver.

 

They rise, they fall.

 

Let's see what Denver looks like in 2016, 2017, 2018, because they might just be right back to 8-8.

 

I'm really not blown away by anything Elway has done, or have I missed something?

What's lacking from your perspective is that the Colts were a rival and the Broncos now are a rival because of the same person. It's been Manning vs Brady/BB for more than a decade, and the other rivalries you mention don't come close to falling into the same category. One would expect this to continue as long as the three of them are all still in the game.

 

Sure, the Broncos may well sink to 8-8 after Peyton retires, but what's your point? It's a QB driven league. The QBs of the other teams that you mention aren't even on the same planet.

 

It's true that the Pats may well be more resilient after Brady retires - assuming that Belichik - whom I have a lot of respect for - is still running the show. But if Brady truly is all that Pats fans claim him to be, one would think that there will be a material falloff. If not, than perhaps some other arguments should be re-considered. You really can't expect to have it both ways. 

[PATS16N0]

What's lacking from your perspective is that the Colts were a rival and the Broncos now are a rival because of the same person. It's been Manning vs Brady/BB for more than a decade, and the other rivalries you mention don't come close to falling into the same category. One would expect this to continue as long as the three of them are all still in the game.

 

Sure, the Broncos may well sink to 8-8 after Peyton retires, but what's your point? It's a QB driven league. The QBs of the other teams that you mention aren't even on the same planet.

 

It's true that the Pats may well be more resilient after Brady retires - assuming that Belichik - whom I have a lot of respect for - is still running the show. But if Brady truly is all that Pats fans claim him to be, one would think that there will be a material falloff. If not, than perhaps some other arguments should be re-considered. You really can't expect to have it both ways. 

 

What's lacking from your perspective is that the Colts were a rival and the Broncos now are a rival because of the same person. It's been Manning vs Brady/BB for more than a decade, and the other rivalries you mention don't come close to falling into the same category. One would expect this to continue as long as the three of them are all still in the game.

 

Sure, the Broncos may well sink to 8-8 after Peyton retires, but what's your point? It's a QB driven league. The QBs of the other teams that you mention aren't even on the same planet.

 

It's true that the Pats may well be more resilient after Brady retires - assuming that Belichik - whom I have a lot of respect for - is still running the show. But if Brady truly is all that Pats fans claim him to be, one would think that there will be a material falloff. If not, than perhaps some other arguments should be re-considered. You really can't expect to have it both ways. 

 

I understand the Peyton connection but it didn't stop the Colts and Denver is not successful solely because of Peyton's 5 yard dump offs.

I'm simply saying the verdict is still out on Elway. So far he's proven he can hit or miss in the draft, like everyone else, he can sign a Colts quarterback, a Patriots slot receiver, both of whom weren't wanted by their teams... and... what?

 

I'm sure New England will drop off after Brady retires. Maybe Belichick will keep them going, but the days of roaring back to tie the 49'ers when down 31-3 will be over, and storming back to beat Denver when down 24-0 will be over, and bringing a horrid defense like the 2011 Patriots defense to the Superbowl, and just barely losing it, will be over. The Brady magic will be over, even if Belichick can keep them a play off team through depth and new talent.

 

Don't want to lead the thread off topic but Brady's legacy is set in stone, no matter how many of his rival fan bases hope some flimsy excuse to challenge it arises.

[MAC]

I understand the Peyton connection but it didn't stop the Colts and Denver is not successful solely because of Peyton's 5 yard dump offs.

I'm simply saying the verdict is still out on Elway. So far he's proven he can hit or miss in the draft, like everyone else, he can sign a Colts quarterback, a Patriots slot receiver, both of whom weren't wanted by their teams... and... what?

 

I'm sure New England will drop off after Brady retires. Maybe Belichick will keep them going, but the days of roaring back to tie the 49'ers when down 31-3 will be over, and storming back to beat Denver when down 24-0 will be over, and bringing a horrid defense like the 2011 Patriots defense to the Superbowl, and just barely losing it, will be over. The Brady magic will be over, even if Belichick can keep them a play off team through depth and new talent.

 

Don't want to lead the thread off topic but Brady's legacy is set in stone, no matter how many of his rival fan bases hope some flimsy excuse to challenge it arises.

Just tweaking you - I'm not knocking Brady. My point was that your picture of teams rising and falling casually while the Patriots reign supreme is incredibly miss-leading. Whatever Elway's accomplishments, the Broncos are where they are because of Peyton - just like the Colts were. What differentiates the Patriots is that they've had BB/TB together for the duration. Peyton's been to the Super Bowl with two GMs and three head coaches. That's not a fact that should be glossed over when discussing the Patriots rivals - he's been right there the entire time.

 

The point is that if the Broncos fall back to 8-8 it will be because Peyton retires. That's hardly comparable to the other teams you've mentioned who each built a strong enough defense and caught enough lightening in a bottle on offense to temporarily sniff the same air that Peyton (and the Patriots) have been living in for a very long time now. Your assumption should be that the Patriots are facing a very similar problem - the only difference being that they are trying very hard to once again build up their defense and their running game to the point where the QB is complementary, and they don't need Brady. If they succeed, BB will truly be in rarefied air. It will be interesting to watch.

 

Similarly it will be hard to judge Elway until after Peyton retires. I think that he's largely maximized the opportunity presented to him by signing Peyton, but he's simultaneously trying to build the team for the long haul while developing another QB. Whether he succeeds or not will go a long way towards forming peoples opinions of him - whether he wins the SB with Peyton or not. But if they do drop - it's hardly surprising. Take any top QB off their team and watch what happens.

[southwest1]

I want to see him use all that genius to develop a QB.

Therein lies the dilemma: Just because John Elway is a HOF QB, it doesn't mean that he can pass that knowledge onto a rookie field general. Being a genius at something & handing that genius down to a new recruit is extremely rare.

 

If "those who can't do teach," what do yellow jacket QBs do? Go into TV gigs or executive administrative positions? Knowing something & passing that knowledge on to another is a whole different animal & not every animal survives in the jungle now do they? 

[MAC]

The way that Polian handled the Colts from the day he was hired clear through the SB win is really hard to argue with.

The problem is that when too many draft picks became injury prone or didn't pan out, he adjusted his methodology by overpaying for current players rather than looking outside the organization. The beginning of the end was Glenn retiring in 2007 (well, Peyton's neck injury in 2006 actually but that's a different story). With a team built around an elite QB, finding a competent LT should have been an urgent priority, not a four year failed experiment.

 

We all know that he has personality issues, and I think it's related to this. He appeared to be unwilling (or incapable) of negotiating with anyone. Drafting is something you can do effectively without the necessity of either competing or schmoozing face to face - it's just you and a draft board. 

 

Time will tell how wise Elway's decisions are, but what he brings to the table is a car salesman's chutzpah on top of a HOFers will to win. I'm sure that his people and management skills benefit him within the organization as well. He knows that it's "all about Peyton and the chance to win right now" and he's actively selling the concept. People come to that building eagerly and they rarely leave without a contract. He's got the will to let people walk, while bringing in arguably better replacements at team friendly terms that the players are never-the-less giddy with joy at the opportunity to accept.

 

The Manning of 2007-2010 had the same theoretical pull, but Polian didn't exploit it. Whether Elway has the eye for talent that served Polian so well in his prime remains to be seen.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

The way that Polian handled the Colts from the day he was hired clear through the SB win is really hard to argue with.

The problem is that when too many draft picks became injury prone or didn't pan out, he adjusted his methodology by overpaying for current players rather than looking outside the organization. The beginning of the end was Glenn retiring in 2007 (well, Peyton's neck injury in 2006 actually but that's a different story). With a team built around an elite QB, finding a competent LT should have been an urgent priority, not a four year failed experiment.

 

We all know that he has personality issues, and I think it's related to this. He appeared to be unwilling (or incapable) of negotiating with anyone. Drafting is something you can do effectively without the necessity of either competing or schmoozing face to face - it's just you and a draft board. 

 

Time will tell how wise Elway's decisions are, but what he brings to the table is a car salesman's chutzpah on top of a HOFers will to win. I'm sure that his people and management skills benefit him within the organization as well. He knows that it's "all about Peyton and the chance to win right now" and he's actively selling the concept. People come to that building eagerly and they rarely leave without a contract. He's got the will to let people walk, while bringing in arguably better replacements at team friendly terms that the players are never-the-less giddy with joy at the opportunity to accept.

 

The Manning of 2007-2010 had the same theoretical pull, but Polian didn't exploit it. Whether Elway has the eye for talent that served Polian so well in his prime remains to be seen.

 

Heckuva post!     Well said.

 

Hope others here will read it and take it to heart....       

[MAC]

I want to see him use all that genius to develop a QB.

 

Therein lies the dilemma: Just because John Elway is a HOF QB, it doesn't mean that he can pass that knowledge onto a rookie field general. Being a genius at something & handing that genius down to a new recruit is extremely rare.

 

If "those who can't do teach," what do yellow jacket QBs do? Go into TV gigs or executive administrative positions? Knowing something & passing that knowledge on to another is a whole different animal & not every animal survives in the jungle now do they? 

Right SW - apples and oranges. I wouldn't expect Wayne Gretzky to be able to "teach" someone to see every player on the ice in slow motion High Def clarity, anticipate their movements with precognition bordering on the supernatural, and slide a pass to the perfect spot with the accuracy of a special forces sniper.

 

I would think that his job is to HIRE the right coaches to develop a QB, while putting the right complementary pieces around him - not to ask his secretary to hold his calls so he can go running around the practice field in penny loafers - tie flapping over his shoulder - demonstrating technique to the 53rd guy on his roster.

[Shane Bond]

The way that Polian handled the Colts from the day he was hired clear through the SB win is really hard to argue with.

The problem is that when too many draft picks became injury prone or didn't pan out, he adjusted his methodology by overpaying for current players rather than looking outside the organization. The beginning of the end was Glenn retiring in 2007 (well, Peyton's neck injury in 2006 actually but that's a different story). With a team built around an elite QB, finding a competent LT should have been an urgent priority, not a four year failed experiment.

 

We all know that he has personality issues, and I think it's related to this. He appeared to be unwilling (or incapable) of negotiating with anyone. Drafting is something you can do effectively without the necessity of either competing or schmoozing face to face - it's just you and a draft board. 

 

Time will tell how wise Elway's decisions are, but what he brings to the table is a car salesman's chutzpah on top of a HOFers will to win. I'm sure that his people and management skills benefit him within the organization as well. He knows that it's "all about Peyton and the chance to win right now" and he's actively selling the concept. People come to that building eagerly and they rarely leave without a contract. He's got the will to let people walk, while bringing in arguably better replacements at team friendly terms that the players are never-the-less giddy with joy at the opportunity to accept.

 

The Manning of 2007-2010 had the same theoretical pull, but Polian didn't exploit it. Whether Elway has the eye for talent that served Polian so well in his prime remains to be seen.

This.

[southwest1]

What's lacking from your perspective is that the Colts were a rival and the Broncos now are a rival because of the same person. It's been Manning vs Brady/BB for more than a decade, and the other rivalries you mention don't come close to falling into the same category. One would expect this to continue as long as the three of them are all still in the game.

 

Sure, the Broncos may well sink to 8-8 after Peyton retires, but what's your point? It's a QB driven league. The QBs of the other teams that you mention aren't even on the same planet.

 

It's true that the Pats may well be more resilient after Brady retires - assuming that Belichik - whom I have a lot of respect for - is still running the show. But if Brady truly is all that Pats fans claim him to be, one would think that there will be a material falloff. If not, than perhaps some other arguments should be re-considered. You really can't expect to have it both ways. 

 

Precisely MAC, elite QBs don't grow on trees & once Brady steps down BB can't just insert a new 1 & not miss a beat. True, Matt Cassel did well in 2008 for NE, but it's a question of longevity for more than 1 season. 

I understand the Peyton connection but it didn't stop the Colts and Denver is not successful solely because of Peyton's 5 yard dump offs.

I'm simply saying the verdict is still out on Elway. So far he's proven he can hit or miss in the draft, like everyone else, he can sign a Colts quarterback, a Patriots slot receiver, both of whom weren't wanted by their teams... and... what?

 

I'm sure New England will drop off after Brady retires. Maybe Belichick will keep them going, but the days of roaring back to tie the 49'ers when down 31-3 will be over, and storming back to beat Denver when down 24-0 will be over, and bringing a horrid defense like the 2011 Patriots defense to the Superbowl, and just barely losing it, will be over. The Brady magic will be over, even if Belichick can keep them a play off team through depth and new talent.

 

Don't want to lead the thread off topic but Brady's legacy is set in stone, no matter how many of his rival fan bases hope some flimsy excuse to challenge it arises.

Superior X's & O's football I.Q. doesn't last forever either Pats16NO. Part of that is a HC's message begins to grow stale & you begin to run out of new ways to motivate your locker room. Winning helps reinforce a dated message sure, but all visionaries no matter how great eventually fade & lose their shine & luster. Genius does have an expiration date. You see that a lot among famous musicians in particular. Why would NFL coaches be any different? 

[southwest1]

The way that Polian handled the Colts from the day he was hired clear through the SB win is really hard to argue with.

The problem is that when too many draft picks became injury prone or didn't pan out, he adjusted his methodology by overpaying for current players rather than looking outside the organization. The beginning of the end was Glenn retiring in 2007 (well, Peyton's neck injury in 2006 actually but that's a different story). With a team built around an elite QB, finding a competent LT should have been an urgent priority, not a four year failed experiment.

 

We all know that he has personality issues, and I think it's related to this. He appeared to be unwilling (or incapable) of negotiating with anyone. Drafting is something you can do effectively without the necessity of either competing or schmoozing face to face - it's just you and a draft board. 

 

Time will tell how wise Elway's decisions are, but what he brings to the table is a car salesman's chutzpah on top of a HOFers will to win. I'm sure that his people and management skills benefit him within the organization as well. He knows that it's "all about Peyton and the chance to win right now" and he's actively selling the concept. People come to that building eagerly and they rarely leave without a contract. He's got the will to let people walk, while bringing in arguably better replacements at team friendly terms that the players are never-the-less giddy with joy at the opportunity to accept.

 

The Manning of 2007-2010 had the same theoretical pull, but Polian didn't exploit it. Whether Elway has the eye for talent that served Polian so well in his prime remains to be seen.

Like NCF said, this is a very insightful post MAC. I especially like your draft board statement because the media loves to create the impression that teams are competing against divisional rivals or those squads that tend to knock them out of the Playoffs when in reality each team is competing against last season's shortcomings alone. I forget that sometimes during the draft. Thanks for the reminder.  

 

Your last sentence is quite profound because it reminds me that short term goals are not to be confused with longterm goals meaning that Elway never had to build a Championship squad from scratch like Polian did. A huge difference. 

[sweetsurrender]

Yes, how dare Elway carry those early mediocre Denver teams to the SB where they were outmatched.

Carry? What happened in the Super Bowls? In 5 SB games he had 3 TDs/8picks and the first one that he won on the legs of Davis he had 1 pick and zero TDs and the next one where he was SB MVP he had 1 TD to 1 pick and was going against the likes of Chris Chandler. The guy has major shrinkage in the big game. And that has carried over apparently to his team with him as the GM. 

[sweetsurrender]

What's lacking from your perspective is that the Colts were a rival and the Broncos now are a rival because of the same person. It's been Manning vs Brady/BB for more than a decade, and the other rivalries you mention don't come close to falling into the same category. One would expect this to continue as long as the three of them are all still in the game.

 

Sure, the Broncos may well sink to 8-8 after Peyton retires, but what's your point? It's a QB driven league. The QBs of the other teams that you mention aren't even on the same planet.

 

It's true that the Pats may well be more resilient after Brady retires - assuming that Belichik - whom I have a lot of respect for - is still running the show. But if Brady truly is all that Pats fans claim him to be, one would think that there will be a material falloff. If not, than perhaps some other arguments should be re-considered. You really can't expect to have it both ways. 

The best post thus far. Elway has one of the best QBs of all time at the helm. Polian won with three different organizations and had Manning when he was a rookie tossing 20+ picks.

[Shane Bond]

The best post thus far. Elway has one of the best QBs of all time at the helm. Polian won with three different organizations and had Manning when he was a rookie tossing 20+ picks.

Sure, he has him as a rookie but he also had him when he was young and strong and playing his best football.

[sweetsurrender]

Sure, he has him as a rookie but he also had him when he was young and strong and playing his best football.

Peyton just has the best season of any QB in the history of the game. 

[Shane Bond]

Peyton just has the best season of any QB in the history of the game. 

Dont tell him he just played his best football at 37. He has been playing good for a while. He just got a good team around him.

[TAPLOOK]

They would have been in cap jail after year 4.

[lollygagger8]

I wouldn't get too excited yet over everything John Elway has done.

 

History shows you can't buy your way to a Super Bowl.     And that most FA moves don't pan out to the extent that you pay for them.     In other words,   you rarely get enough bang for your buck.

 

Grigson is just starting his 3rd year as GM and was handicapped in his first year by $40 million in dead cap space....   why people are still posting about his signings that first year when he didn't have much better choices is a mystery to me.

 

This is not rocket science.     And yet some people still have trouble understanding this.

 

Elway didn't start with a team as bad as Grigson did.    The Colts were in much worse shape when Grigson took them over than the Broncos were when Elway took them over.    Big, big difference.

 

[chad72]

They would have been in cap jail after year 4.

 

The same thing had been said about the Pats and they manage to manage their cap consistently well. Good GMs and organizations generally do, I am sure the Colts and Broncos will do as well. The cap continually going up the next 2 years possibly should help a lot of them. Year 4, Year 5, it does not matter if the GM is a good cap manager.

 

Whether they will be a playoff team or not, that is the BIGGER question.

 

There will be re-structuring, players let go, new team friendly contracts negotiated and so on...once we all dig deep into it, we find that it is not rocket science (borrowing NewColtsFan).

[amfootball]

Dont tell him he just played his best football at 37. He has been playing good for a while. He just got a good team around him.

Is there any debate that he played his best football last season? His team was great but so were his Indy teams as well.

[Shane Bond]

Is there any debate that he played his best football last season? His team was great but so were his Indy teams as well.

Peyton is Peyton.

 

He didnt just play different last year.

 

His team was different last year with the addition on offense and OL.

 

To me, his 2004 was better.

[amfootball]

Peyton is Peyton.

 

He didnt just play different last year.

 

His team was different last year with the addition on offense and OL.

 

To me, his 2004 was better.

His OL was severely injured all season including missing his best lineman in the off-season. His run game was decent but had some fumbles that cost him in both the Colts game and the Pats game. Talent-wise I think the 2004 team had more talent with Harrison, Wayne, Clark, James. I just thought he played his best football by far and his stats showed that. I will admit though that he did benefit from a weak schedule.

[chad72]

 

To me, his 2004 was better.

 

There was an analysis done and his YPA and several key numbers in 2004 were in fact better from an offensive standpoint. Your statement does have merit.

 

His deep ball was better and it was a pity Peyton did not take checkdowns then which is how Belichick played him, his LBs depth were deeper daring him to run or take checkdowns. Sometimes, Peyton is his own enemy with the fact that he is predictable, and that has been exploited by good defensive minds at the elite level.

 

Now, it is a pity Peyton did not go deep enough in the SB. Seahawks DBs jumped on the dinks and dunks, Peyton did not have a chance, IMO. Elway realized that Peyton's deep ball needs to be respected, that is why he signed Emmanuel Sanders to go in the Z WR slot across DT, that was the only way teams were going to keep 2 safeties deep allowing the run to flourish. In 2006, during the SB run, teams respected both Wayne and Harrison deep, so safeties were almost always deep and the Colts could actually establish the run and guys in the slot like Dallas Clark could be more effective. Seahawks had only 1 safety deep, so a guy like Chancellor could cheat based on down and distance thus clogging the middle with good defensive reads.

 

Plus, I think Adam Gase has a little ways to go before establishing different run formations, I do think he is a bit light on power runs and series based rushing. How often did you see the Broncos go with 2 TEs and run it and be patient towards the end? It was game 2 vs the Giants when it last happened with very good results. Once the run was established, teams were ripe for play action and you could still play the same 2 WRs and be more effective or continue to run it till they stopped it. That, in a nutshell, is going to be the key for the Broncos to go deep in the playoffs again, IMO.

[amfootball]

There was an analysis done and his YPA and several key numbers in 2004 were in fact better from an offensive standpoint. Your statement does have merit.

 

His deep ball was better and it was a pity Peyton did not take checkdowns then which is how Belichick played him, his LBs depth were deeper daring him to run or take checkdowns. Sometimes, Peyton is his own enemy with the fact that he is predictable, and that has been exploited by good defensive minds at the elite level.

 

Now, it is a pity Peyton did not go deep enough in the SB. Seahawks DBs jumped on the dinks and dunks, Peyton did not have a chance, IMO. Elway realized that Peyton's deep ball needs to be respected, that is why he signed Emmanuel Sanders to go in the Z WR slot across DT, that was the only way teams were going to keep 2 safeties deep allowing the run to flourish. In 2006, during the SB run, teams respected both Wayne and Harrison deep, so safeties were almost always deep and the Colts could actually establish the run and guys in the slot like Dallas Clark could be more effective. Seahawks had only 1 safety deep, so a guy like Chancellor could cheat based on down and distance thus clogging the middle with good defensive reads.

 

Plus, I think Adam Gase has a little ways to go before establishing different run formations, I do think he is a bit light on power runs and series based rushing. How often did you see the Broncos go with 2 TEs and run it and be patient towards the end? It was game 2 vs the Giants when it last happened with very good results. Once the run was established, teams were ripe for play action and you could still play the same 2 WRs and be more effective or continue to run it till they stopped it. That, in a nutshell, is going to be the key for the Broncos to go deep in the playoffs again, IMO.

Great stuff as always Chad. It seems to me that Peyton has lost quite a bit on his deep ball. This is just from the eye test as the neck surgeries have affected his velocity especially if he is not on complete balance when he throws. I think the short to medium throws were intentional and not a factor of the offense. That is why I think this year was even more special. He did it without the long ball and still got 55 TDs and the yardage record.

[Shane Bond]

There was an analysis done and his YPA and several key numbers in 2004 were in fact better from an offensive standpoint. Your statement does have merit.

 

His deep ball was better and it was a pity Peyton did not take checkdowns then which is how Belichick played him, his LBs depth were deeper daring him to run or take checkdowns. Sometimes, Peyton is his own enemy with the fact that he is predictable, and that has been exploited by good defensive minds at the elite level.

 

Now, it is a pity Peyton did not go deep enough in the SB. Seahawks DBs jumped on the dinks and dunks, Peyton did not have a chance, IMO. Elway realized that Peyton's deep ball needs to be respected, that is why he signed Emmanuel Sanders to go in the Z WR slot across DT, that was the only way teams were going to keep 2 safeties deep allowing the run to flourish. In 2006, during the SB run, teams respected both Wayne and Harrison deep, so safeties were almost always deep and the Colts could actually establish the run and guys in the slot like Dallas Clark could be more effective. Seahawks had only 1 safety deep, so a guy like Chancellor could cheat based on down and distance thus clogging the middle with good defensive reads.

 

Plus, I think Adam Gase has a little ways to go before establishing different run formations, I do think he is a bit light on power runs and series based rushing. How often did you see the Broncos go with 2 TEs and run it and be patient towards the end? It was game 2 vs the Giants when it last happened with very good results. Once the run was established, teams were ripe for play action and you could still play the same 2 WRs and be more effective or continue to run it till they stopped it. That, in a nutshell, is going to be the key for the Broncos to go deep in the playoffs again, IMO.

 

 

The first play of the game vs Steelers, play action, Manning goes Deep, 80 yards TD. Good old days man.

[dgambill]

Sure but Colts had glaring weakness in defense and special teams especially ( 2006 to 2011 ). I dont recollect any free agency signing. Even look at Grigson, he is aggressive.

 

Aqib Talib could essentially be broken down to an one year contract. I will try find the break down.

Uh we brought in Booker Mcfarland who immediately helped in our run defense and we brought in the most clutch kicker of all time...who nailed 5/5 fgs against a loaded Baltimore Defense. Those were great moves...Adam especially. If Elway was here would he have even drafted Peyton?? Or would he have been in love with the big arm PAC 12 guy? Would he have signed Edgerin or Ricky...would he have drafted Reggie, Robert, Bob Sanders, Dwight Freeney, Dallas Clark, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, signed Jeff Saturday or even kept him, we've had loads of talent on this team...mostly home grown..and when some of the draft picks started to get injured late, and Bill missed...yes it ran out..and it was time to move on from Bill...but who knows what ANY GM in place would have done....perhaps they would have made us better...or ran us into the ground....who knows...I'm happy how it turned out.

[dgambill]

Is there any debate that he played his best football last season? His team was great but so were his Indy teams as well.

I think he played his smartest season ever. Imagine Peyton's prime health and ability with the mind he has now....just scary! I think both he and Tom missed out on their best seasons as Tom's was around 2007 and Peyton a couple years before..but man if father time gives them another year or two of health WATCH OUT...they are both loaded for a SB run. Home field will be a huge advantage this year...and I think NE may land it with Denver's schedule...even if Denver wins the regular season game.

[dgambill]

The same thing had been said about the Pats and they manage to manage their cap consistently well. Good GMs and organizations generally do, I am sure the Colts and Broncos will do as well. The cap continually going up the next 2 years possibly should help a lot of them. Year 4, Year 5, it does not matter if the GM is a good cap manager.

 

Whether they will be a playoff team or not, that is the BIGGER question.

 

There will be re-structuring, players let go, new team friendly contracts negotiated and so on...once we all dig deep into it, we find that it is not rocket science (borrowing NewColtsFan).

I agree..it isn't so much the cap numbers as the guaranteed money...and even then its who your paying and are you getting value for it. When big cap space is taken up by underperforming players that is your problem. We all know the problem is never the 20m to Peyton....its the 10m to an injured and unproductive Champ Bailey....its the money tied up in guys that aren't getting it done anymore or living up to their "talent". If they guys work out...the money isn't really the issue.

[BOTT]

Carry? What happened in the Super Bowls? In 5 SB games he had 3 TDs/8picks and the first one that he won on the legs of Davis he had 1 pick and zero TDs and the next one where he was SB MVP he had 1 TD to 1 pick and was going against the likes of Chris Chandler. The guy has major shrinkage in the big game. And that has carried over apparently to his team with him as the GM.

You are my favorite poster

[Narcosys]

I understand the Peyton connection but it didn't stop the Colts and Denver is not successful solely because of Peyton's 5 yard dump offs.

I'm simply saying the verdict is still out on Elway. So far he's proven he can hit or miss in the draft, like everyone else, he can sign a Colts quarterback, a Patriots slot receiver, both of whom weren't wanted by their teams... and... what?

I'm sure New England will drop off after Brady retires. Maybe Belichick will keep them going, but the days of roaring back to tie the 49'ers when down 31-3 will be over, and storming back to beat Denver when down 24-0 will be over, and bringing a horrid defense like the 2011 Patriots defense to the Superbowl, and just barely losing it, will be over. The Brady magic will be over, even if Belichick can keep them a play off team through depth and new talent.

Don't want to lead the thread off topic but Brady's legacy is set in stone, no matter how many of his rival fan bases hope some flimsy excuse to challenge it arises.

wheres this stone?

[Shane Bond]

Peyton's 5 yard dump offs.

 

 

Yeah those dump offs ended your season. Go figure.

[TAPLOOK]

14 SB wins without a doubt.

[crazycolt1]

IF???!!!      

[amfootball]

You are my favorite poster

He is making me completely re-evaluate my top 3 QBs all time. I always had Elway at 3 but not so sure anymore. ;)

[Synthetic]

You guys really are closest Broncos fans aren't you? I mean, yeah, I knew it all along, but this is just ridiculous now. Just go ahead and admit you would sell every last thing to have ELWAY as your GM cause "Peyton is still great!".

 

John Elway is just great you know. He's GM God. He can never do anything wrong cause he has Mr. Double Super Bowl Choker "but he's still the greatest thing ever!" as quarterback. Hmmmmm let's see what's he's done so far:

 

 

Look at who is the coach in Denver. Oh......yeah. That's right. Same coach that totally ruined what was left of a former good team in Carolina before hauling his tail out of town. He totally starved them dry before he left for good. This same coach that had talented team after talented team in Carolina, managed to make it to the big game but ultimately totally blew it (sound familiar). Say what you want about Jake Delhomme but I watched those old Panther teams for years. They used to beat the living crap out of the Saints, and I hated them greatly for it but they were a great team back then. Delhomme may have turned into a joke later on but in his prime, he was a machine. I know, I know, the Broncos are the greatest team ever, but I'd still take that SB loser Panther squad over them, cause at least those guys didn't lay down and let their teeth get kicked in over and over and over. They came back and made that a game. Delhomme still put more points on the board than golden boy could with John Fox there as coach.

 

 

Oh and let's look at Denver's defense since Elway is so great at building a team - SPECTACULAR DEFENSE! Can you say awesomeness any louder? For the first 7 weeks, they looked like the 2011 Packers without getting the same amount of turnovers. Even some of the most mediocre quarterbacks were throwing it deep and making them look awful. Besides, John Fox is supposed to be this great defensive mastermind coach. To his degree, he owes a lot of that credit to the talent that was in Carolina that he so kindly gave away to the rest of the league after they lost the Super Bowl (let's let all our good players leave slowly, that will keep us competitive right?).

 

 

Denver struggled greatly with teams above .500. Matter of fact, they only beat two teams in all of last year that were above .500 and that was a banged up Chargers team (that they struggled hard against in the playoffs) and a banged up New England team that had already ran out of juice before the playoffs even starter. They had one of the weakest schedules in the entire league last year. They didn't play the Eagles with Foles, and had it not been for stat padding, the Colts had them beat at half time, much like Seattle had them beat in the first half of the Super Bowl.

 

This is just recently. I'm not even counting what Elway did with Tebow and the whole media circus around him.

 

Look at that schedule for the up coming season. Denver is not all that. Yeah I know, your all time favorite player that you love more than your own team plays there, so I'll get called a troll and the usual stuff, but what you seen in the Super Bowl was the real deal. They folded the minute they ran into a real team that wasn't scared and worried just cause golden boy was on the other side of the field.

 

We will see what the Donkeys are really made of next season when they play the NFC West and have to deal with real defenses that are going to be down right abusive when it comes to putting the quarterback on the ground. When you play some of the worst teams of the year on the schedule that Denver had last year, there's a reason no one wants to stop the massive stat padding to further the egos of an already big group of self entitled losers, but try it next year. Those NFC West don't play. You all rag on the Saints for "bounty gate" and tell me how they were losers, but at least they hung in there vs Seattle. They didn't lay down and let them run the score up to 43 points. Losing by 36 compared to losing by 8 is a big big statement when it comes to how Denver would have fared against New Orleans or San Francisco. Yeah, I wouldn't have been surprised if either of them would have stomped them in the ground, Green Bay probably would have beat them too considering Rodgers can shred horrible defenses and no one seemed scared of Denver's paper tiger.

 

 

Save the crowning for next year. You learned how that works when everyone was ready to crown Manning as GOAT before he played the Saints, and you learned it again with Seattle. Elway hasn't won anything as GM yet, so he hasn't done anything great. Any GM could have landed Manning and you would be saying the same thing (just like any other team could have landed him and the bandwagon would have grown the same way it has for the Donkeys)

 

 

 

 

 

[jskinnz]

If Elway had a young Manning, the way he builds the team would look radically different. He has a short window and I think is making these moves with that in mind. To me, it is an apples and oranges comparison.