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Colts to sign/looking to sign Vontae Davis. Will NOT use franchise tag

TKnight24

By TKnight24
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Stoney Practice Squad

Stoney

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:facepalm:

What good is a proven safety if he's in coverage for 6-8 seconds EVERY pass play cause the pass rush can't there?

Everything starts up front! There is no argument. Having an great secondary means NOTHING with no pass rush. Why would you want your DB's in coverage for decades?

Or another example, crossing routes. Teams KILLED us with those. How would a safety change that?

Sry for that blank comment, my phone is confusing. But you didn't answer my question. What players are available this year besides Arthur Jones that we just have to get that would immediately make our front 7 worlds better. I'm all in for Orakpo too but he probly cost too much $ for you right? There is a play making Safety available staring us right in the eyes why not get him and make our dbacks an elite group for years to come. If we had Byrd maybe he gets that INT that Bethea dropped late in the game against the Patriots playoffs. And don't get me wrong, I'm all with ya that it starts up front. But I'm also not afraid to want to spend a little more money on a guy that I know will make a difference.

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Stoney Practice Squad

Stoney

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Those crossing routes are on the ILB's to read AND Safeties, A good example of this is the Broncos second posession of the SB.....there 2nd play of that drive, Thomas came across Peytons vision on a crossing route and Cam Chancellor came up and layed a huge hit on Thomas for just 3 yards

^this guy gets it

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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Sry for that blank comment, my phone is confusing. But you didn't answer my question. What players are available this year besides Arthur Jones that we just have to get that would immediately make our front 7 worlds better. I'm all in for Orakpo too but he probly cost too much $ for you right? There is a play making Safety available staring us right in the eyes why not get him and make our dbacks an elite group for years to come. If we had Byrd maybe he gets that INT that Bethea dropped late in the game against the Patriots playoffs. And don't get me wrong, I'm all with ya that it starts up front. But I'm also not afraid to want to spend a little more money on a guy that I know will make a difference.

Honestly i don't know the FA class like that so I couldn't tell you. Orakpo would help but Walden did all year what he was paid to do, set the edge. But Orakpo is probably a better force in the pass rush

Dansby would be good, if he's available. I'd even make the trade for Dion Jordan if the price is right. Convert him to OLB cause he's too small for DE. And he's very athletic so OLB would be good. You can never have too many pass rushers

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Thewholefnshow28 Walk On

Thewholefnshow28

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That is a risky move.  At least with the franchise tag you can always negotiate a long term deal up till a certain deal and you are sure you are keeping the guy no matter what for at least another season.  This leaves a team who is willing to throw money at him open to come in a steal him.  I am all for keeping him, but not above a certain price tag.  If someone wants to pay him top 5 CB money then you let him walk.

 

Hopefully we can get him closer to Grimes's deal and call it a day.

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Colts_Fan12 Practice Squad

Colts_Fan12

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Honestly i don't know the FA class like that so I couldn't tell you. Orakpo would help but Walden did all year what he was paid to do, set the edge. But Orakpo is probably a better force in the pass rush

Dansby would be good, if he's available. I'd even make the trade for Dion Jordan if the price is right. Convert him to OLB cause he's too small for DE. And he's very athletic so OLB would be good. You can never have too many pass rushers

I'd look into Jordan also depending on what they are asking. He was playing the wrong position last year and didn't get to play much
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Jason_ Hall of Famer

Jason_

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:facepalm:

What good is a proven safety if he's in coverage for 6-8 seconds EVERY pass play cause the pass rush can't there?

Everything starts up front! There is no argument. Having an great secondary means NOTHING with no pass rush. Why would you want your DB's in coverage for decades?

Or another example, crossing routes. Teams KILLED us with those. How would a safety change that?

 

wow, hyperbole much?  Our pass rush wasn't even close to as bad as you're making it out to be.  You realize the Colts were 11th in the league last year with 42 sacks right?  Pressures also figure into the equation of course.  For a full PFF breakdown, check here:  https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/27/pass-rushing-productivity-team-defenses/

 

You'll find that:

 

DL ranked 7 out of 15 in total pass rush productivity (only including 3-4 teams...Houston was #1 which isn't really fair because they are a 1-gap team)

LB ranked 6 out of 15 (only including the 3-4 teams)

DB ranked 32 out of 32 (ouch)

Total, colts ranked 17th out of 32 teams. 

 

Not great, definitely can be improved, but not NEARLY as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.  

 

Also, for people that keep complaining that we don't get enough pass rush from our DL, compare to Baltimore's numbers.  Overall they are ranked 6th in total Pass rush productivity but their DL was ranked 12 out of 15, which was 5 places lower than the Colts and there were only 3 teams that run a 3-4 that were lower.  Our DL actually did pretty well last year considering 2 of the 3 starters were new to the team (Franklin and RJF).

 

I do expect some moves to be made to improve the DL but not the drastic moves some are calling for.  I actually wouldn't be surprised if there was no big name DL brought in during FA but rather another player or 2 in the draft to groom.  What we need most is someone to take over for Redding but that may very well be Hughes.  I expect Chapman to take over as starter in 2014 and after that we need better quality depth.  IF a free agent is brought in it will likely be someone to start ahead of Redding moving Redding to a rotational role and as a situational interior pass rusher.

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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I'd look into Jordan also depending on what they are asking. He was playing the wrong position last year and didn't get to play much

Yep, only if the price is right. Don't want to get robbed out of a draft pick. But I believe Jordan would be good here at OLB

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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I think he will be good anywhere as an OLB lol he got screwed in Miami

Indeed. Player's Jordan size coming out as DE's usually go to 3-4 teams to play OLB. Not sure what made Miami take him in their 4-3 defense. There were plenty of 4-3 players & offensive line available when they picked

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Colts_Fan12 Practice Squad

Colts_Fan12

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Indeed. Player's Jordan size coming out as DE's usually go to 3-4 teams to play OLB. Not sure what made Miami take him in their 4-3 defense. There were plenty of 4-3 players & offensive line available when they picked

Cause Miami is stupid they don't use there heads they got robbed last year by ellerbe and Wallace and just got robbed by grimes
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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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Cause Miami is stupid they don't use there heads they got robbed last year by ellerbe and Wallace and just got robbed by grimes

Yeah I just saw that. What was it $16 million guaranteed I think someone posted here? Isn't he like 30+ years old?

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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wow, hyperbole much? Our pass rush wasn't even close to as bad as you're making it out to be. You realize the Colts were 11th in the league last year with 42 sacks right? Pressures also figure into the equation of course. For a full PFF breakdown, check here: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/27/pass-rushing-productivity-team-defenses/

You'll find that:

DL ranked 7 out of 15 in total pass rush productivity (only including 3-4 teams...Houston was #1 which isn't really fair because they are a 1-gap team)

LB ranked 6 out of 15 (only including the 3-4 teams)

DB ranked 32 out of 32 (ouch)

Total, colts ranked 17th out of 32 teams.

Not great, definitely can be improved, but not NEARLY as bad as you're trying to make it out to be.

Also, for people that keep complaining that we don't get enough pass rush from our DL, compare to Baltimore's numbers. Overall they are ranked 6th in total Pass rush productivity but their DL was ranked 12 out of 15, which was 5 places lower than the Colts and there were only 3 teams that run a 3-4 that were lower. Our DL actually did pretty well last year considering 2 of the 3 starters were new to the team (Franklin and RJF).

I do expect some moves to be made to improve the DL but not the drastic moves some are calling for. I actually wouldn't be surprised if there was no big name DL brought in during FA but rather another player or 2 in the draft to groom. What we need most is someone to take over for Redding but that may very well be Hughes. I expect Chapman to take over as starter in 2014 and after that we need better quality depth. IF a free agent is brought in it will likely be someone to start ahead of Redding moving Redding to a rotational role and as a situational interior pass rusher.

I'm not saying our pass rush is the worst in the world but it could use much improvement. When Robert comes off the field, you can see the significant drop off in pressure generated by our front. It's gotta be more options to help that is all I'm saying. Mathis despite how good he is and despite the season he just had, he's not getting younger and we gotta find him some help

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bestQBever Team Captain

bestQBever

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So let's say we re-sign Vontae then sign Byrd. Then what? That's probably 85% of our money gone cause Byrd is gonna cost. We're STILL in bad shape cause we have NO PASS RUSH

Everything starts up front. If we get a better pass rush, we won't have to worry about pur secondary getting gashed for huge plays

We could address pass rush in the draft. With our 2nd round pick. This all relies on Henoc Muamba becoming the next Jerrell Freeman.

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James Active Roster

James

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So, Grimes get 8 mio per year at the age 30. That means we will have to pay Davis at least that since that. 8+ mio a year for a corner is too much. I'd rather let Davis walk and use the 2nd round pick on a corner. 

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Gavin Walk On

Gavin

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So, Grimes get 8 mio per year at the age 30. That means we will have to pay Davis at least that since that. 8+ mio a year for a corner is too much. I'd rather let Davis walk and use the 2nd round pick on a corner. 

That still dont solve anything, we wouldn't likely end up with a #1 Corner at our slot in the 2nd round and even if we did somehow that Corner is still a rookie and will take some time to develop...On top of not currently having a reliable #2 Corner now

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James Active Roster

James

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That still dont solve anything, we wouldn't likely end up with a #1 Corner at our slot in the 2nd round and even if we did somehow that Corner is still a rookie and will take some time to develop...On top of not currently having a reliable #2 Corner now

 

Could find a stop gap type player (like Tillman) and sign him for 1-2 seasons while our 2nd round CB could develop. I see plenty of CBs in this draft who has potential to start after a year or two. EJ Gaines, Macgill, Fuller, Hampton, Jean-Baptiste. Then maybe get Colvin in the later round and sit him like Chapman. They we have two youngsters ready to start come 2015.

Paying big bucks for Davis 8 mil a year will not end well.

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James Active Roster

James

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Grimes contract puts us in a bind now if Davis uses that as leverage/asking price etc... Only if we had signed Davis earlier we probably wouldn't have to overpay now

 

This. It's a huge headache now. We must not overpay for Davis.

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BProland85 Ring of Honor

BProland85

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If we can't get Davis signed back with the team, we may have to trade up to get a #1 CB like Darqueze Dennard.

 

We would have been best served to sign him long term a few months back so we wouldn't be up against a corner 1 week from free agency.

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IndyScribe Walk On

IndyScribe

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If we can't get Davis signed back with the team, we may have to trade up to get a #1 CB like Darqueze Dennard.

 

We would have been best served to sign him long term a few months back so we wouldn't be up against a corner 1 week from free agency.

That's going to cost us way too much.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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If Davis can agree to a grimes contract then I'll we will be okay but any higher would kill us cap wise to and any other free agents we need desperately like guards, ILB, Dline, and safety

Why would he agree to Grimes contract? He is five years younger

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BProland85 Ring of Honor

BProland85

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Why would he agree to Grimes contract? He is five years younger

I agree youth does play into the contract, but so does stats and Grimes has the stats and pro bowl appearances that Davis does not have. That's why he should be getting around the deal Grimes received.

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