Ron Jaworski: "I wouldn't take Manziel in the first three rounds."

[NewColtsFan]

Who cares if he played in a dink and dunk offense so does Tom Brady

 

No....   he doesn't.

 

He can if he needs to....   but the NE offense has never been dink and dunk...

[NewColtsFan]

I heard johnny Manziel on Jon Gruden QB camp is out but I can't find it. Any help?

 

The half hour show doesn't air until the end of March.

 

But ESPN is running clips around 4-5 minutes long on SportsCenter....   you can find it there...

[krunk]

I'd like for him to fall to Cleveland to pair him with Gordon and Cameron since Cleveland can't get cousins

 

If Shahid Khan is looking for something to fill the stands up I think he will go with one of the Florida based prospects,either Bridgewater or Bortles I suspect. I believe if the Jaguars are going to run something similar to what Seattle does then I would say you take Bridgewater over anyone else as I think he's clearly suited for the West Coast Offense. We'll see what happens!

[NewColtsFan]

Jaws only watched 5 games .  A small sampling of Manziels work means IMO Jaws should watch the rest if his games , That way his opinion might mean something .

 

Even at 5 games,  the opinion of Ron Jaworski means something.

 

Maybe not to you.    Maybe not to some others here.     But to some NFL types,  it means something.

[BrentMc11]

For those interested in Russell Wilson's college stats:  

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/russell-wilson-1.html

 

I tried to just post the table...but it was all wacked out

[Le Neon]

"I've only looked at 5 games..."

Stopped reading there. Wasn't he the one saying Peyton Manning was washed up a couple of years ago? Bet he'd like a mulligan on that one.

[Jay Kirk]

Then why is he projected to go in the first round and possibly be the first pick?

If some one wants him at number 1 ,ive got no problem as long as its not my Colts or Bears.He does have talent just don't think he will be durable enough to last.Time will tell as always who has the right points of view in this thread.After all these post are opinions and they are like a.. h..,s everbodys got one.

[Le Neon]

Even at 5 games, the opinion of Ron Jaworski means something.

Maybe not to you. Maybe not to some others here. But to some NFL types, it means something.

I bet each team would take the lowest guy on their own scouting team over Jaws.

Doesn't necessarily make him wrong, but Jaws is about as effective as a coin toss at predicting these things.

[BOTT]

Wilson is a premier QB IMO and he was just as much responsible for the Hawks ring as the defense. And of course he likes to shed the pocket too and is shorter then Manziel. The only issue here though is Manziel seems much more undisciplined in his approach then Wilson which is why I think he is more like Favre and Big Ben. I do think he gets taken in the first round just because of his play making ability.

That first sentence isn't even close to the truth....in fact it's almost laughable.

[Colts_Fan12]

That first sentence isn't even close to the truth....in fact it's almost laughable.

But but he won a Super Bowl...

[Surge89]

That first sentence isn't even close to the truth....in fact it's almost laughable.

 

Wilson has proven he can win a game on his arm...  He may not be a premier QB (that might be a tad of a stretch) but to say he didn't have something to do with that super bowl run nor him having potential to be a premier QB is laughable.  He has a 60% completion rate with almost 3 times as many TD's as Picks... That to me says VERY good QB.  

 

Remember the Colts game when Luck made a fool out of that defense?  Wilson has alot to do with the score being so close...

[NFLfan]

I liked how tough was when he was hurt(Bridgewater) I said somewhere he reminded me of McNair at that point.

I saw him play way too much...not sure why folks are down on him...'scratches head'

Are scouts and experts down on Bridgewater, or are you referring to fans? I'd take Bridgewater over all the other QBs in this draft. I saw him play many times and I was always impressed. He is tough and played well against all competition. He is comfortable in the pocket but runs well when he has to. I don't remember him having been in any trouble. He has always come across as a leader.

The only thing that concerns me is that his hands have been described as small. What does Jaws think of Bridgewater?

[amfootball]

That first sentence isn't even close to the truth....in fact it's almost laughable.

Why? You don't think Wilson is a good QB?

[BrentMc11]

Are scouts and experts down on Bridgewater, or are you referring to fans? I'd take Bridgewater over all the other QBs in this draft. I saw him play many times and I was always impressed. He is tough and played well against all competition. He is comfortable in the pocket but runs well when he has to. I don't remember him having been in any trouble. He has always come across as a leader.

The only thing that concerns me is that his hands have been described as small. What does Jaws think of Bridgewater?

I have not seen what Jaws has said yay or nay on Bridgewater.  If I have time I will see if I can find something.

 

He is a tough kid.  Anyone who saw him play more than 1 game knows how he leads....I still think Bortles will eventually be the QB of this draft, but Bridgewater to me is the most ready NOW.

[NFLfan]

I have not seen what Jaws has said yay or nay on Bridgewater. If I have time I will see if I can find something.

He is a tough kid. Anyone who saw him play more than 1 game knows how he leads....I still think Bortles will eventually be the QB of this draft, but Bridgewater to me is the most ready NOW.

Thank you. Jaworski knows his stuff and I'm interested in hearing his assessment of the other quarterbacks.

Nowadays if a quarterback cannot start right away and win, the fans are ready to ship him out. I don't know if teams desperate for a quarterback will give a high pick time to develop. That may help Bridgewater, if he is in fact the one most ready to start now.

If Bridgewater, Manziel or Bortles drops, a team that would do well in drafting one of them is Arizona. They have an established but aging QB and can afford to wait and develop one of the young quarterbacks. And they have a great offensive head coach to do the job.

[southwest1]

Jaws is too busy flapping his jaws.....kinda like this...

 

Man, Mick Jagger from the Rolling Stones has really let himself go Brent. Just Kidding! 

 

Yes and the SAME franchises repeatedly whiff too....Cleveland just leads the league in strikeouts 

 

I am fresh out of LIKES!  I shall return

Bonus points for my pal Brent for utilizing a General Douglas MacArthur WWII quote. 

 

All I know is that with the iffy nature of the last two QB classes, the Colts sure picked a good year to suck back in 2011. 

Yes INDY did GP. Proof that it is always better to be LUCK-Y than good right?  ;)

 

That first sentence isn't even close to the truth....in fact it's almost laughable.

Yes BOTT, RW made a few key throws, but the Hawks D carried them to a Lombardi victory more than anything else. Facts are facts. I agree 100%

[southwest1]

Thank you. Jaworski knows his stuff and I'm interested in hearing his assessment of the other quarterbacks.

Nowadays if a quarterback cannot start right away and win, the fans are ready to ship him out. I don't know if teams desperate for a quarterback will give a high pick time to develop. That may help Bridgewater, if he is in fact the one most ready to start now.

If Bridgewater, Manziel or Bortles drops, a team that would do well in drafting one of them is Arizona. They have an established but aging QB and can afford to wait and develop one of the young quarterbacks. And they have a great offensive head coach to do the job.

Good point NFLfan QB Carson is getting up there in years & AZ would be wise to start thinking about his successor. The question is do you surround Palmer with weapons now to make a Playoffs run or find his eventual replacement & let Carson show him the ropes for a season or 2? 

[southwest1]

Why? You don't think Wilson is a good QB?

I think RW is good with the potential to be great given his tremendous work ethic my friend. I just believe that right now it is premature to give RW too much praise. He did his part to win the game & he deserves credit for his ball security & TD throws. However, he does not warrant elite status yet, but he is capable of getting there.

 

When players leave Seattle for more money & their GM must start paying out bigger salaries, Let's see what RW does with less depth at key defensive positions. That's the real test of a franchise QB: Winning with a good not superb defense. JMO. 

[southwest1]

 Jaworski knows his stuff and I'm interested in hearing his assessment of the other quarterbacks.

 

Yeah, I agree with that NFLfan. Jaws watches a ton of film on NFL prospects. I may not always agree with his conclusions, but you can tell that he puts in the time & he knows what the hades he's talking about 95% of the time. I love Jon Gruden too when he sits down with QB rookies too. He gets so giddy like a little kid on Christmas morning. And those, angry Chucky eyes are priceless man! 

 

[BOTT]

Wilson has proven he can win a game on his arm...  He may not be a premier QB (that might be a tad of a stretch) but to say he didn't have something to do with that super bowl run nor him having potential to be a premier QB is laughable.  He has a 60% completion rate with almost 3 times as many TD's as Picks... That to me says VERY good QB.  

 

Remember the Colts game when Luck made a fool out of that defense?  Wilson has alot to do with the score being so close...

What is laughable is you quoting me and then putting words into my mouth. While he was only mediocre during the playoff run, I think he is a good QB.

[BOTT]

Why? You don't think Wilson is a good QB?

Good...yes. Premiere? No way.

[Gavin]

Good...yes. Premiere? No way.

I think he is on par with Luck overall even if the numbers dont show it, He hasn't had to carry the load(which dont mean he cant) but given how calm he is in the pocket and his ability to know when to scramble I think they are very close, I'd even say he stays more calm under those specific situations, Both I'd love to have as a QB

[BOTT]

I think he is on par with Luck overall even if the numbers dont show it, He hasn't had to carry the load(which dont mean he cant) but given how calm he is in the pocket and his ability to know when to scramble I think they are very close, I'd even say he stays more calm under those specific situations, Both I'd love to have as a QB

He's not even that good in the pocket.

[Gavin]

He's not even that good in the pocket.

Well Luck and his tunnel vision is no Peyton Manning either going into his 3rd year but they both have something that you cant teach and thats they dont get rattled easily

[southwest1]

I will say this: RW in his college years at WI never really had to contend with defensive pressure right up the middle moving his center into his lap. RW is used to pass rushers collapsing the sides of his pocket not the very middle. I'd love to see what he does with a healthy Vince Wilfork coming for a QB snack. 

 

I will concede Gavin's valid point though that RW is not known to fold like a lawn chair under pressure like Andy Dalton, but I have never seen RW constantly hit all 4 QTRs either. 

 

I like RW. I have nothing ask him personally, but 1 SB ring does not put him in the pantheon of greatness among Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, & Big Ben. That's just ridiculous. 

 

Yes, I will put Brady in that elite QB list too. He's earned it & as much as it pains me to say this as a Colts fan....Tom always scares the crap out of me with 45 seconds left & about to fire that ball wherever it has to go to get a 1st down & win the game. I can't lie. 

[southwest1]

Well Luck and his tunnel vision is no Peyton Manning either going into his 3rd year but they both have something that you cant teach and thats they dont get rattled easily

Yup, RW could give lessons on how to slide, get down, & avoid contact. RW is smart enough to never get greedy, take what the D gives him, & not push for extra yards. Extremely rare in such a young QB. 

 

What he lacks in height; he makes up for in understanding situational awareness on the field. Something you are born with not taught. 

[BOTT]

Well Luck and his tunnel vision is no Peyton Manning either going into his 3rd year but they both have something that you cant teach and thats they dont get rattled easily

Tunnel vision? How predictable from you.

[Surge89]

What is laughable is you quoting me and then putting words into my mouth. While he was only mediocre during the playoff run, I think he is a good QB.

OK so you didn't insinuate anything when you said that Wilson having as much to do with that Lombardi as his D was laughable.

It was laughable that Wilson was a part of their run, but he is a good QB? Hmm 2+2=5? You are throwing around your "laughable" word and you may want to rethink that. It's aggressive and comes out quite smug especially when you contradict yourself the very next comment.

[NFLfan]

Good point NFLfan QB Carson is getting up there in years & AZ would be wise to start thinking about his successor. The question is do you surround Palmer with weapons now to make a Playoffs run or find his eventual replacement & let Carson show him the ropes for a season or 2?

I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive, but if I had to choose one, I would draft Carson Palmer's successor. In that conference, the best teams are in Arizona's division. Palmer has 2 or 3 good years left. Arizona is not beating Seattle and San Francisco record-wise in the next 2 years. The Cards had a really good season and anything can happen in the NFL, but I don't trust Palmer to have another good year without an injury. He seems to fall short every year. He certainly has not been a bust but he has underachieved given his strengths. Perhaps he just did not play for the right teams.

[BOTT]

OK so you didn't insinuate anything when you said that Wilson having as much to do with that Lombardi as his D was laughable.

It was laughable that Wilson was a part of their run, but he is a good QB? Hmm 2+2=5? You are throwing around your "laughable" word and you may want to rethink that. It's aggressive and comes out quite smug especially when you contradict yourself the very next comment.

It is laughable.....because the defense was dominant and Wilson was far from it. But that doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with it......which is how you tried to paint it. They are two very different things. So just admit you misrepresented what I said instead of trying to be cute with a nonsense response.

[Gavin]

Tunnel vision? How predictable from you.

Or 1 of 2 things:

 

1.you should look at his play from an unbiased view OR

2.Get the All 22, study some of the games and watch how he will look at 1 receiver often (he was really bad at that prior to Reggie going down but was forced to get better after) and lock on to him to much, Thats how some of his int's have happened

[dw49]

Wilson is a premier QB IMO and he was just as much responsible for the Hawks ring as the defense. And of course he likes to shed the pocket too and is shorter then Manziel. The only issue here though is Manziel seems much more undisciplined in his approach then Wilson which is why I think he is more like Favre and Big Ben. I do think he gets taken in the first round just because of his play making ability.

 

 

 

Here's a guy that is well respected that probably has even watched his high school games. He likes Bortles as the top QB.

 

 

 

 

 

Based on tape study, NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel faces long odds of success in the pros because his game is so reliant on "making plays outside of structure."

On tape, Cosell was taken aback by "how many balls (Manziel) does not throw to open receivers," and that he abandons the pocket even when he "does not need to." Opined Cosell, "I think it's very hard in the NFL to live on the edge when you don't need to. If you live on the edge too often, you will fall off the cliff, in my view, in the NFL." Cosell believes Manziel's tendency to move and/or abandon the pocket is not comparable to Russell Wilson's, who does it in a "structured" manner. "When it's third-and-six, and Russell Wilson sees he can run for eight yards and get a first down, he just runs for eight yards and gets out of bounds," Cosell explained. "There's a purpose to his movement. Now I'm interpreting Johnny Manziel on film, but quite frankly, when he moves I see a guy who moves, and then tries to figure it out. And I'm not sure that that works in the NFL."

 

 

[NFLfan]

Phil Simms did at least two interviews on sports talk radio in NYC this week. I heard him this morning. His comments surprised listeners and the hosts. He said that if Geno Smith had come out this year, he would be the top quarterback in the draft, adding "there is no doubt in my mind". He said Smith has a stronger arm, is bigger, and like the top QBs this year, had impressive stats in college.

Simms said he likes Bridgewater best in this QB draft but he did not seem particularly high on any of them.

[amfootball]

Good...yes. Premiere? No way.

Ok. Gotcha. I don't believe he is elite yet like Brady, Manning, Rodgers but I think he is the next tier which is why I said premier. I really don't see any weakness in his game and he will only get better as time goes on IMO.

[amfootball]

 

Here's a guy that is well respected that probably has even watched his high school games. He likes Bortles as the top QB.

 

 

 

 

 

Based on tape study, NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel faces long odds of success in the pros because his game is so reliant on "making plays outside of structure."

On tape, Cosell was taken aback by "how many balls (Manziel) does not throw to open receivers," and that he abandons the pocket even when he "does not need to." Opined Cosell, "I think it's very hard in the NFL to live on the edge when you don't need to. If you live on the edge too often, you will fall off the cliff, in my view, in the NFL." Cosell believes Manziel's tendency to move and/or abandon the pocket is not comparable to Russell Wilson's, who does it in a "structured" manner. "When it's third-and-six, and Russell Wilson sees he can run for eight yards and get a first down, he just runs for eight yards and gets out of bounds," Cosell explained. "There's a purpose to his movement. Now I'm interpreting Johnny Manziel on film, but quite frankly, when he moves I see a guy who moves, and then tries to figure it out. And I'm not sure that that works in the NFL."

 

 

 

Good stuff. Thanks for posting. This is some quality analysis and certainly fair criticism of Manziel and how his game may translate into the NFL. I do think if he goes to Houston that O'Brien will work on him in this regard much in the same way Harbaugh has done with Kaep who also was a bit of an improviser who lacked accuracy as well.

[BOTT]

Or 1 of 2 things:

 

1.you should look at his play from an unbiased view OR

2.Get the All 22, study some of the games and watch how he will look at 1 receiver often (he was really bad at that prior to Reggie going down but was forced to get better after) and lock on to him to much, Thats how some of his int's have happened

Oh, I know, I'm not as unbiased as the great Gavin. The guy who said Mike McGlynn should be moved to tackle.

I do have All 22. And I try to listen to people who actually know the position and then watch the film. Sorry, I don't think he has a problem starring down receivers.....which isn't that easy to see unless you have a close up of his eyes.

[dw49]

Good stuff. Thanks for posting. This is some quality analysis and certainly fair criticism of Manziel and how his game may translate into the NFL. I do think if he goes to Houston that O'Brien will work on him in this regard much in the same way Harbaugh has done with Kaep who also was a bit of an improviser who lacked accuracy as well.

  More and more sounds like maybe Kiper is the only one thinking he goes to Houston. IMO . he needs to show some really good arm talent to go 1.1