Ryan Grigson is the real problem.

[#12]

I despised Polian to such a degree that I hesitate ever criticizing Grigson, but I just went through every pick, signing and trade Grigson has made, and a reasonable person can question a high number of them.  Through two seasons, outside of Luck, when you are talking about good-to-slam dunk moves and picks, they seem to be at least balanced questionable to bad ones, and that might be a tad generous   At best, through two seasons his record is mixed.  Grigson needs a much better 2014. 

[Superman]

I despised Polian to such a degree that I hesitate ever criticizing Grigson, but I just went through every pick, signing and trade Grigson has made, and a reasonable person can question a high number of them. Through two seasons, outside of Luck, when you are talking about good-to-slam dunk moves and picks, they seem to be at least balanced questionable to bad ones, and that might be a tad generous At best, through two seasons his record is mixed. Grigson needs a much better 2014.

Now do the same for another GM, maybe the Rams, who hired Snead the same year Grigson came to the Colts. You'll begin to notice that every GM makes some mistakes.

[#12]

Now do the same for another GM, maybe the Rams, who hired Snead the same year Grigson came to the Colts. You'll begin to notice that every GM makes some mistakes.

 

That's true, but being a Grigson supporter, I have to admit that calling his record "mixed" might be a bit generous.  2012 was certainly better than 2013.  Here's to a better 2014. 

[Blueblazes]

Even the best GMs make good choices but some bad. I'll just hit the highlights. First off, we are 22-10 under Grigs, so can't say much bad, overall (since his pick of Luck had a lot to do with this 22-10 record). He did a good job thinking the Oline needed help, but it needs way more help. Cherilus's big contract proved to be a good decision.  Thomas will return, but we need to solidify C and RG with true top notch players and not medocrity in order to go to the next level. TE's and WR's galore right now, especially if Reggie has 2 good years left. TY was a great pick. RB will be influx depending on the decison to sign DBrown and Bradshaw. Yes, TRich has not looked like a good deal yet and next year we should know for sure-but yes, not good right now. Defensively, Warden was ok but too high priced for the payout and Werner is still TBD, but didn't show a lot. Freeman was a true find. We need another LB if Warden really is mediocre. The Dline wasn't up to par vs. the run and was disappointing when it came down to it. RJF was not a real stuffer, nor was Franklin. Still need to work on that. Redding was a good pick up 2 years ago. CB's are fine. Inconsistent at times, but fine overall. Safety's are about what I thought, Landry is a solid safety vs. the run but not good vs. the pass. It will be interesting to see what we do with Bethea. He was good and bad.

 

I'll give Grigs a "B" at this point, based mainly on the 22-10 and led by his pick, Andrew Luck and TY Hilton. CB's were improved for the most part. Still need Oline improvement badly--if that happens you will be shocked at what this offense can do.

[Superman]

That's true, but being a Grigson supporter, I have to admit that calling his record "mixed" might be a bit generous.  2012 was certainly better than 2013.  Here's to a better 2014. 

 

Meh, overall, I think Grigson has done a good job. He made two big mistakes this year: giving up the first for Richardson, and trading Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard. Only one of those actually hurt the team on the field.

 

There were some other misses, like signing DHB or Greg Toler, but I find it hard to be critical about moves like that. DHB was a risk based on the state of the roster at that time, and if not for Reggie, Allen, Bradshaw and Ballard getting hurt, DHB's lack of production wouldn't really have mattered all that much. After so many injuries, we began to need DHB to step up, and he was altogether unable to do so. But that's not the role we signed him for. Toler had some injury issues coming in, but so did Brent Grimes, who all these second-guessers continue to bring up, or Rodgers-Cromartie. Luck of the draw sometimes. I really don't have any other complaints.

 

I think part of the problem is that some of these more vocal critics of our GM or coaching staff don't watch or pay attention to other teams. Every GM has a few black spots on his resume, every year. Every coach makes a bad decision every once in a while. Every team has weaknesses on its roster. The Seahawks have groomed a few average receivers, but they're really not that great at receiver, which is why they traded for Percy Harvin, which wound up being a bad move. We got more out of Richardson, and they gave up three picks + a big contract for Harvin, where they could have simply drafted Cordarrelle Patterson to play that role, which is what Minnesota did with the first rounder they got from Seattle. They also have a troublesome offensive line.

 

The Broncos have depth issues on the offensive line, they have fumbling RBs, they have a worrisome secondary... and these are all issues they tried to fix in the offseason, and still they have the same weak spots as they did at this time last year.

 

The Pats have precious few receivers, practically no tight ends, the middle of their defense has been decimated with injuries, etc.

 

The Niners are probably the most complete team left standing, and three months ago, they were reeling because their only receiver was Anquan Boldin. They drafted AJ Jenkins in the first round last year, and wound up cutting him halfway through this season, despite needing help at receiver. They've also stayed relatively healthy down the stretch, which is the opposite of the Colts. 

 

TL;DR? Every team has weaknesses, and every GM makes mistakes. The question is whether the team is getting better, and whether the team still has the resources to continue getting better. The Colts are better than they were a year ago, and although Grigson traded one of our biggest resources, we still have plenty of cap space and room to continue growing. 

[coltfaninnewyork]

The one i scratch my head over is walden.Was gonna set the edge and improve our run defense.Where did we rank in run defense?And overpaid as well,remember after the signing the television pundits mocked his contract.

[cdgacoltsfan]

Yep we surpassed many here's off-season win projection (and that was before we knew about the injuries) and took step forwards in terms of winning the division and won a playoff game just two years after a 2-14 season and yet so many here want to fire all the people who did that anytime we lose.  It's kinda funny when you think about it that or just makes you want to ram your head into a brick wall I am not sure which. 

Im sure the OP had us as the heavy favorites to win it all before the season began like all the other experts did . He's probably just disapointed we only won the division and only won 1 playoff game. Any team in the league can do that in year 2 of a complete tear down and rebuild .....right?    (edit:this post is littered with sarcasm)

[CopenhagenColt]

I haven't been a fan of Grigsons second shot at the draft, and overall less than impressed with the FA signings in his second year either.

The T-Rich trade hasn't paid off, but I still believe that the kid is talented and could become a better than average future starter at RB. There is a reason why he was picked #3 overall in the draft.

The biggest problem we had this year was injuries - Had we not had season ending injuries to Ballard & Bradshaw, the T-Rich trade would never have happened. Losing Donald Thomas and Dwayne Allen was a big blow early and we would have been a much better team with them. Losing a player like Reggie Wayne midway through the season would hurt most teams, and it hurt us as well.

 

Still, we made the playoffs, beat Chiefs and lost out to The Brady Bunch.

I would say we've had a good season overall. It could have been better, but as a whole we did pretty well.

 

A lot of relatively inexperienced players grew and surprised most of us. Whalen stepped up, Rodgers as well (let's hope he keeps his head straight), Fleener grew, Brazil showed promise as did Havili.

Add to that the growth of Luck and T.Y. and we have a pretty solid foundation to build on for the future.

 

There are clearly areas of the team that could use an upgrade, especially the trenches and pass rush. But things could be a whole lot worse than what they are .

 

Lets just hope that we hit a couple of home runs in FA and the draft

[jvan1973]

The one i scratch my head over is walden.Was gonna set the edge and improve our run defense.Where did we rank in run defense?And overpaid as well,remember after the signing the television pundits mocked his contract.

IIRC it is a fairly inexpensive contract to get out of if the FO thinks he isn't working out

[Jason_]

 

 Keep in mind ricky was a productive player at least and way to early on rg3

 

This may have been asked already because I haven't read the rest of the replies after this post, but how can it be too early on RG3 but not for Trent?  I mean, they did both enter the NFL in the same draft so....

[Jason_]

Grigs could've had Keenan Allen. That Werner pick is almost worst than the Trent trade. Especially if they're going to continue running a 34

 

 

The one i scratch my head over is walden.Was gonna set the edge and improve our run defense.Where did we rank in run defense?And overpaid as well,remember after the signing the television pundits mocked his contract.

 

I'm just going to be completely frank here....that is an incredibly lazy "analysis".  You simply cannot look at the overall rushing numbers and determine that every player on the defense did a poor job.  Walden is primarily responsible for rushes that go to the edge on the strong side.  How many of the overall rushing yards came because Walden did not set the edge correctly on the strong side?  Teams have been running away from Walden (not exclusively but to a large degree) all season because he's done a pretty good job at what he's supposed to do.

 

Also a suggestion....do NOT listen to the media pundits because 9/10 times they're just barfing out nonsense that they think sounds good.  There several teams interested in Walden's services.  Reggie McKenzie wanted to bring Walden with him from Green Bay to Oakland, and I am almost positive that another team had a workout scheduled with Walden after his visit to the Colts but they didn't get a chance to work him out because he signed a contract while he was still here.  Walden was the guy Pagano and Grigson wanted and they made sure to get him.  IMO, that's really all that matters, but as Superman has said multiple times already, they didn't even have to overpay him by much when you compare his contract to that of other players at his position.  

[tfunky14]

The Niners are four years into their new regime (when Baalke took over personnel duties). Same for the Seahawks, when Schneider and Carroll came on. The Colts are two years behind both teams, and still beat both teams head to head this season. 

Very good point..

[coltfaninnewyork]

I'm just going to be completely frank here....that is an incredibly lazy "analysis".  You simply cannot look at the overall rushing numbers and determine that every player on the defense did a poor job.  Walden is primarily responsible for rushes that go to the edge on the strong side.  How many of the overall rushing yards came because Walden did not set the edge correctly on the strong side?  Teams have been running away from Walden (not exclusively but to a large degree) all season because he's done a pretty good job at what he's supposed to do.

 

Also a suggestion....do NOT listen to the media pundits because 9/10 times they're just barfing out nonsense that they think sounds good.  There several teams interested in Walden's services.  Reggie McKenzie wanted to bring Walden with him from Green Bay to Oakland, and I am almost positive that another team had a workout scheduled with Walden after his visit to the Colts but they didn't get a chance to work him out because he signed a contract while he was still here.  Walden was the guy Pagano and Grigson wanted and they made sure to get him.  IMO, that's really all that matters, but as Superman has said multiple times already, they didn't even have to overpay him by much when you compare his contract to that of other players at his position.  

Did not to be mean lazy,and while true he's one guy,finishing 26th against the run.Which was worse than 2012.Its frustrating thats all,i expected improvement in the run d and did not get it.

[Jason_]

Did not to be mean lazy,and while true he's one guy,finishing 26th against the run.Which was worse than 2012.Its frustrating thats all,i expected improvement in the run d and did not get it.

 

And that's fair...we all did.  However, imo, the inconsistencies against the run have been the result of a number of factors, but none of those factors are Walden.  IMO they are:

 

• inconsistent play by the ILB's
• inconsistent play by the safeties
• inconsistency in coverage, especially at the #2 CB spot

The first two are fairly self explanatory, but the third may not be so I'll expand a little on that.  In the first several games before Toler initially got hurt, they were able to play a lot of press man coverage across the board, allowing the entire front 7 to focus on the run.  Once Toler went out, Vaughn was obviously a downgrade. Other guys on defense had to worry about helping Vaughn to make sure he didn't get burned on every single play.

 

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the defense overall improved once a lineup change was made and Vaughn was benched.  I know a lot of people wanted the change to come sooner than it did and I too thought they could have made the change sooner but we have no idea what the coaches got to see from the guys in practice.  However, they were able to figure out that Davis-Butler-Gordy was a better group than Davis-Vaughn-Butler.  After that, the defense as a whole started playing better, not as well as at the beginning of the season but still better than that stretch in the middle of the season.

[jmac_48]

I think that Grigson's success with his first draft has set him up for criticism and "failure".

The contribution by the number of players from that draft was amazing, miraculous maybe.

He got awards, recognition, and a whole lot of expectations.

Seldom are GM's going to have that kind of success, and the team was so void of talent it was easy for those players to come in and find a place.

I don't know what kind of percentage of success rate is around the league for draft choices having immediate impact, but I suspect it is less than 50%, Grigs first year was out of the norm. So by comparison this years draft surely looks like a failure, probably not so.

FA is a crap shoot, you win some you lose some... Par for the course.

The TRich trade, the jury is still out but so far it's not looking good, too soon to string up the guy over that one yet.

 

What I trying to say that maybe with his early success that he set the bar very high and it may be hard to live up to those expectations. It's still quite the turnaround for a team that was in desperate shape just two years ago.

 

Give it time, even if he is just better than average, we will still be growing, and who knows he might hit another grand slam.

[Dark_Indy]

Uhhhhh. No. LOL. You guys are crazy. He is the main reason we won a playoff game and still have ~$40 million in cap space. We are 2 years outside of a 2 win season and MAJOR team overhaul. Usually this kind of rebuilding takes 5-6 years. We did it in two. Believe me, other teams are very jealous.

 

 

I am leery of a spiritual Bill Polian in Ryan Grigson. 

 

What would Polian's career have looked like had he drafted Ryan Leaf?

 

As solid as the rest of the 2012 draft class looked, would you hold the same respect for Grigson had he drafted RG3?

 

If you believe our team would've been better or worse had Grigson drafted RG3, it means that all of your basis for Grigson being great was because he drafted Andrew Luck. His legacy and aura of respect should not be made because he selected one phenomenal player. 

 

How many awful drafts did Bill Polian have after 1998? How many did Colts fans put up with because Peyton Manning could take four guys from a corner bar and get 11 wins? 

[ricker182]

I am leery of a spiritual Bill Polian in Ryan Grigson. 

 

What would Polian's career have looked like had he drafted Ryan Leaf?

 

As solid as the rest of the 2012 draft class looked, would you hold the same respect for Grigson had he drafted RG3?

 

If you believe our team would've been better or worse had Grigson drafted RG3, it means that all of your basis for Grigson being great was because he drafted Andrew Luck. His legacy and aura of respect should not be made because he selected one phenomenal player. 

 

How many awful drafts did Bill Polian have after 1998? How many did Colts fans put up with because Peyton Manning could take four guys from a corner bar and get 11 wins? 

He's done a pretty good job putting this team together in a very short time. We were drafting Luck no matter who the GM was so that really doesn't count on Grigson's record.

[Jason_]

He's done a pretty good job putting this team together in a very short time. We were drafting Luck no matter who the GM was so that really doesn't count on Grigson's record.

 

+1 ...sorry, ran out of likes

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Neither was Reggie should we cut him too?  Injuries happen.  If Toler misses as much time due to injury next season then yeah I am fine with moving on from him but right now I think you bring him back healthy next year. 

 

Walden's biggest problem was people viewed him as a replacement for Freeney.  He never was, Mathis was Freeney's replacement.  Walden was brought in here to be a true 3/4 OLB and help set the edge on the run and be able to rush the QB from time-to-time.  He did those things.  Before someone makes a crack about the runs tonight notice they came up the gut, Walden plays outside.  The Colts have been much better at stopping the run to the edge this year than in the past and I think Walden is a big part of that.  They need to work on fixing the middle though.  They need a big 3/4 DT who can eat up space. 

 

Landry just hasn't impressed me.  He's better than Zibs and Bullett sure but you know what Orlovsky was better than Painter at QB too, doesn't mean I wanted him to be our QB going forward. 

Walden has set the edge sometimes, honestly I have been surprised by his pass rush & disappointed by his edge setting!

[tonychen]

He nailed it in 2012 draft but missed most in 2013 draft. A normal thing for an inexperienced manager. He is not the genius many thought to be after 2012, but also not as bad as the OP says. The upcoming draft will tell more about him. But with a franchise QB like Luck, it is very hard for a GM to go too wrong.

[tonychen]

The Trent Richardson thing has more to do with Jim Irsay than the manager. Irsay is potentially a much worse problem if Colts do not want to become a dramatic but mediocre team (Cowboys?) in the future.

[ztboiler]

Great thread OP.....let's call out the man responsible for orchestrating one of the greatest turnarounds in NFL history, then followed it up with sustained success and a playoff victory.  You're right...he probably can't work here.  Next.

[jvan1973]

He nailed it in 2012 draft but missed most in 2013 draft. A normal thing for an inexperienced manager. He is not the genius many thought to be after 2012, but also not as bad as the OP says. The upcoming draft will tell more about him. But with a franchise QB like Luck, it is very hard for a GM to go too wrong.

You can't judge a draft after one or two seasons

[tonychen]

You can't judge a draft after one or two seasons

 

That's why I said we should wait and see what's coming this year. But he needs to be careful on evaluating talents as Luck's rookie contract will expire soon and the team has to take advantage of the freedom before they get tightened up by Luck's next contract.