Jim Caldwell

[IndyTrav]

Lots of Caldwell on the brain lately here on the forums. So let's take a look at the other 31 coaches in the NFL and make an educated guess as to who we feel Caldwell can out coach.

Coaches

NAME EXP 2011 RECORD TEAM

Ken Whisenhunt 5 1-4 Arizona Cardinals

Mike Smith 4 3-3 Atlanta Falcons

John Harbaugh 4 4-1 Baltimore Ravens

Chan Gailey 4 4-2 Buffalo Bills

Ron Rivera 1 1-5 Carolina Panthers

Lovie Smith 8 3-3 Chicago Bears

Marvin Lewis 9 4-2 Cincinnati Bengals

Pat Shurmur 0 -- Cleveland Browns

Jason Garrett 2 2-3 Dallas Cowboys

John Fox 10 1-4 Denver Broncos

Jim Schwartz 3 5-1 Detroit Lions

Mike McCarthy 6 6-0 Green Bay Packers

Gary Kubiak 6 3-3 Houston Texans

Jim Caldwell 3 0-6 Indianapolis Colts

Jack Del Rio 9 1-5 Jacksonville Jaguars

Todd Haley 3 2-3 Kansas City Chiefs

Tony Sparano 4 0-5 Miami Dolphins

Leslie Frazier 2 1-5 Minnesota Vikings

Bill Belichick 17 5-1 New England Patriots

Sean Payton 6 4-2 New Orleans Saints

Tom Coughlin 16 4-2 New York Giants

Rex Ryan 3 3-3 New York Jets

Hue Jackson 1 4-2 Oakland Raiders

Andy Reid 13 2-4 Philadelphia Eagles

Mike Tomlin 5 4-2 Pittsburgh Steelers

Norv Turner 16 4-1 San Diego Chargers

Jim Harbaugh 1 5-1 San Francisco 49ers

Pete Carroll 6 2-3 Seattle Seahawks

Steve Spagnuolo 3 0-5 St. Louis Rams

Raheem Morris 3 4-2 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Mike Munchak 1 3-2 Tennessee Titans

Mike Shanahan 19 3-2 Washington Redskins

Me personally, I guys I highlighted in bold I feel are better coaches. A total of 21 HC's in the NFL I feel are unquestionably better than Caldwell. Thats over 67%. I also failed to highlight HC's with 2 or less years of experience. 9 of them. They just don't have a big enough track record. Although I'd be hard pressed not to take Harbaugh,Spags, Munchak over Jimmy. Garret Fraizer prob aren't NFL HCs. So after looking at the list, I personally have Jim ranked:

31/32 NFL headcoaches! Hey, it could be worse!

And as soon as Soprano gets fired, (within the next 3 weeks) we will have, in my opinion, the worst HC in the NFL. Hooray!

Whats your take?

Edited October 21, 2011 by IndyTrav

[KyFan18]

Any response to this is pure conjecture. Anyone who answers claims to know more about coaching football than they actually do. We have no idea how effective most of these coaches are. We don't watch most of these teams on a regular basis. We just know Caldwell isn't getting results, and makes bonehead coaching moves, and that's all that matters.

Edited October 21, 2011 by KyFan18

[IndyTrav]

Any response to this is pure conjecture. Anyone who answers claims to know more about coaching football than they actually do. We have no idea how effective most of these coaches are. We don't watch most of these teams on a regular basis. We just know Caldwell isn't getting results, and makes bonehead coaching moves, and that's all that matters.

Unlike 90% of this board, I actually watch other teams, Im not limited by whats on CBS. So I have a fairly good grip on other teams.

[Smitto]

like the second poster said, most fans dont know how to rate head coaches much less know how big of an impact the coaches have on their team. ie mike smith..... he doesnt even have full control of his team... the owner told him to tell matt ryan to target hulio in the eagles game... that doesnt sound like much of a HEAD coach to me.

[IndyTrav]

like the second poster said, most fans dont know how to rate head coaches much less know how big of an impact the coaches have on their team. ie mike smith..... he doesnt even have full control of his team... the owner told him to tell matt ryan to target hulio in the eagles game... that doesnt sound like much of a HEAD coach to me.

You clearly don't watch enough NFL to comment then. If posters don't watch or cant comprehend other teams and sitiuations, and how they relate to the Colts organization then they should abstain from commenting in this thread. The phrase that ends with " ....than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" comes to mind...

Mike Smith, in one year, did more for the Falcons and the city of Atlanta, than Jim Caldwell will do in 100.

[bayone]

like the second poster said, most fans dont know how to rate head coaches much less know how big of an impact the coaches have on their team. ie mike smith..... he doesnt even have full control of his team... the owner told him to tell matt ryan to target hulio in the eagles game... that doesnt sound like much of a HEAD coach to me.

Yeah that was amazing when that came out after falcons lost that week, since then they have rebounded

Edited October 21, 2011 by bayone

[Smitto]

You clearly don't watch enough NFL to comment then. If posters don't watch or cant comprehend other teams and sitiuations, and how they relate to the Colts organization then they should abstain from commenting in this thread. The phrase that ends with " ....than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" comes to mind...

Mike Smith, in one year, did more for the Falcons and the city of Atlanta, than Jim Caldwell will do in 100.

Lol yea forget that the falcons have Matt Ryan who was the one to lead his team to the playoffs, it was all mike smith.... you might as well put him in the same shoes as jim caldwell because both teams depend on their QB... you need to stop sounding so condescending mate, cause your only making yourself look bad.

[Smitto]

Yeah that was amazing when that came out after falcons lost that week, since then they have rebounded

After that game they had no choice but to win although they lost to the bucs better teams have fell there

[IndyTrav]

Lol yea forget that the falcons have Matt Ryan who was the one to lead his team to the playoffs, it was all mike smith.... you might as well put him in the same shoes as jim caldwell because both teams depend on their QB... you need to stop sounding so condescending mate, cause your only making yourself look bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Atlanta_Falcons_season

You've lost the right to post in my thread.

[Andy]

Chan Gailey is better than him....same with Harbaugh and Carrol. Carrol is so smart, plans practices 3 hours later if playing on the east coast, has a great bond with players, calls the plays, takes the worst team skillwise and took them to the playoffs. Jim Caldwell is at the bottom of the league when it comes to coaching.

[Knuckles79]

Unlike 90% of this board, I actually watch other teams, Im not limited by whats on CBS. So I have a fairly good grip on other teams.

thanks to Nfl ticket and dvr i also watch alot of the other teams. Caldwell to me was just handed this job he never earned it anyway i was ready for a change before dungy left no dispespect to dungy but our cover 2 and tampa 2 hasnt been working for along time or could i say never yes we can argue our sb year but really did it we played low ranked offense other then pats and if it wasnt for grossmans ugly game we prolly would have lost that . the one thing about dungy is we did seem to make good half time adjustments caldwell doesnt seem to change it seems to me they make a game plan and just ride it out. Me myself this is my own opinion but i want a NEW coach with some fire a get in ur face kinda of coach coaches like tomlin, harbaugh just examples i know they cant be had but just want to see some emotions !

[Smitto]

http://en.wikipedia...._Falcons_season

You've lost the right to post in my thread.

You just gave me a wiki link stating nothing.... are you saying that without Matt Ryan, Mike Smith would still be a really good coach?

cause i highly doubt that.

[Rich Cannon]

At this point ill take any coach who doesnt believe in playing corner backs 10 yards off the line every play

[dn4192]

Lots of Caldwell on the brain lately here on the forums. So let's take a look at the other 31 coaches in the NFL and make an educated guess as to who we feel Caldwell can out coach.

Coaches

NAME EXP 2011 RECORD TEAM

Ken Whisenhunt 5 1-4 Arizona Cardinals

Mike Smith 4 3-3 Atlanta Falcons

John Harbaugh 4 4-1 Baltimore Ravens

Chan Gailey 4 4-2 Buffalo Bills

Ron Rivera 1 1-5 Carolina Panthers

Lovie Smith 8 3-3 Chicago Bears

Marvin Lewis 9 4-2 Cincinnati Bengals

Pat Shurmur 0 -- Cleveland Browns

Jason Garrett 2 2-3 Dallas Cowboys

John Fox 10 1-4 Denver Broncos

Jim Schwartz 3 5-1 Detroit Lions

Mike McCarthy 6 6-0 Green Bay Packers

Gary Kubiak 6 3-3 Houston Texans

Jim Caldwell 3 0-6 Indianapolis Colts

Jack Del Rio 9 1-5 Jacksonville Jaguars

Todd Haley 3 2-3 Kansas City Chiefs

Tony Sparano 4 0-5 Miami Dolphins

Leslie Frazier 2 1-5 Minnesota Vikings

Bill Belichick 17 5-1 New England Patriots

Sean Payton 6 4-2 New Orleans Saints

Tom Coughlin 16 4-2 New York Giants

Rex Ryan 3 3-3 New York Jets

Hue Jackson 1 4-2 Oakland Raiders

Andy Reid 13 2-4 Philadelphia Eagles

Mike Tomlin 5 4-2 Pittsburgh Steelers

Norv Turner 16 4-1 San Diego Chargers

Jim Harbaugh 1 5-1 San Francisco 49ers

Pete Carroll 6 2-3 Seattle Seahawks

Steve Spagnuolo 3 0-5 St. Louis Rams

Raheem Morris 3 4-2 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Mike Munchak 1 3-2 Tennessee Titans

Mike Shanahan 19 3-2 Washington Redskins

Me personally, I guys I highlighted in bold I feel are better coaches. A total of 21 HC's in the NFL I feel are unquestionably better than Caldwell. Thats over 67%. I also failed to highlight HC's with 2 or less years of experience. 9 of them. They just don't have a big enough track record. Although I'd be hard pressed not to take Harbaugh,Spags, Munchak over Jimmy. Garret Fraizer prob aren't NFL HCs. So after looking at the list, I personally have Jim ranked:

31/32 NFL headcoaches! Hey, it could be worse!

And as soon as Soprano gets fired, (within the next 3 weeks) we will have, in my opinion, the worst HC in the NFL. Hooray!

Whats your take?

Exactly "HOW" did you come to your conclusion? Could you please list your background/references in being able to determine the ability of any head coach.

[dn4192]

Unlike 90% of this board, I actually watch other teams, Im not limited by whats on CBS. So I have a fairly good grip on other teams.

You "watch" I am guessing from your couch or Lazy boy? Yep that is a way to make an informed opinion. I watch hours of shows on the Food channel but I still can't cook.

[dn4192]

Chan Gailey is better than him....same with Harbaugh and Carrol. Carrol is so smart, plans practices 3 hours later if playing on the east coast, has a great bond with players, calls the plays, takes the worst team skillwise and took them to the playoffs. Jim Caldwell is at the bottom of the league when it comes to coaching.

And you base this off of what?

[BillCowher]

Exactly "HOW" did you come to your conclusion? Could you please list your background/references in being able to determine the ability of any head coach.

Why are all of you taking this so seriously? This is his opinon and he even states: "make an educated guess". Of course he is a fan just like the rest and is entitled to his opion. I happen to agree with him but if you want to argue that Caldwell is really the best coach then that is fine to. You can share your opinon as well. No one (outside of the Colts organization) really knows how good Caldwell is or not but we all do know his record. With Manning he has an excellent record. Without Manning he can't win a game!

[manningup]

The thing about coach Caldwell is that you either really like him, or, you really dislike him. There's not much middle ground with him..............I'm really not a fan of his, but I'm more than willing to lay a lot of the blame for this season on polian. His (and son's) drafting ability as of late has been sub-par to be generous. Also, bringing in Kerry Collins proves to me that he's lost it............

[BillCowher]

The thing about coach Caldwell is that you either really like him, or, you really dislike him. There's not much middle ground with him..............I'm really not a fan of his, but I'm more than willing to lay a lot of the blame for this season on polian. His (and son's) drafting ability as of late has been sub-par to be generous. Also, bringing in Kerry Collins proves to me that he's lost it............

Makes you wonder who is calling the shots. I still think highly of B. Polian but I wonder if Chris has what the old man has or maybe had.

[dn4192]

The thing about coach Caldwell is that you either really like him, or, you really dislike him. There's not much middle ground with him..............I'm really not a fan of his, but I'm more than willing to lay a lot of the blame for this season on polian. His (and son's) drafting ability as of late has been sub-par to be generous. Also, bringing in Kerry Collins proves to me that he's lost it............

I am neither, I don't like or dislike, I just know for that "joe" fan who has little to no knowledge of what is involved in the day to day job of a head coach to state that Caldwell can't coach and it's all Peyton is unfair. Having an opinion is fine, but at least provide some data, facts or something to support it.

[joo 2h]

woah woah wait, put up some facts mate.

I know jason garrett play calling has been a bit off, but he can still call an offense. and please tell me how many teams was lined up to hire jim caldwell?

he had a losing record at wake and after he leaves indy no body will ever hire him as a HC, hes just a postition coach and only that.

Also Steve Spagnuolo can coach a defence, which makes him still a better coach then jim. If Steve was here things on defence would be much deffernt as he knows how to handle the 4-3 type defence. Look at the gaints and what that defence did to the high scoring pats of 07 in the superbowl.

Edited October 21, 2011 by joo 2h

[IndyTrav]

Exactly "HOW" did you come to your conclusion? Could you please list your background/references in being able to determine the ability of any head coach.

Sure.

1999 AFC Assistant of the Year

2001 SB Winning GM

2002-08 Undefeated streak on Madden

I designed the Patriots Gameplan for the 2008 season

Sources sited by Glazer/Shefter/Mort are often just aliases of myself

Joe Paterno once referred to me as "The greatest football mind of all time"

Runningback and Linebacker are both terms I originated.

Are you serious with this crap bro? The "whats your qualifications and resume" angle? Your a sad sad little man. This is a forum. A community of non-experts who gather to discuss and analyze the forums topic, this one being the Colts and NFL. Its all opinion based. Some which are always right (mine) and others not (yours).

[chrisfarley]

as we already know, caldwell is awful...... but he's all we got.

[IndyTrav]

woah woah wait, put up some facts mate.

I know jason garrett play calling has been a bit off, but he can still call an offense. and please tell me how many teams was lined up to hire jim caldwell?

he had a losing record at wake and after he leaves indy no body will ever hire him as a HC, hes just a postition coach and only that.

Also Steve Spagnuolo can coach a defence, which makes him still a better coach then jim. If Steve was here things on defence would be much deffernt as he knows how to handle the 4-3 type defence. Look at the gaints and what that defence did to the high scoring pats of 07 in the superbowl.

To be honest, alot of those guys, unbolded, I would take well ahead of Caldwell. Spags,Harbaugh, Carroll, Munchak. I personally hold in higher regard than Caldwell. Shurmu and Gailey I haven't seen enough of, although I have liked what I've seen. I personally disliked Frazier last year, and continue to do so, and as for Garret, I think he's brilliant, as an OC. I see alot of Martz in that guy, but he's just too young to be the HC of a team of the Cowboys stature, and current situation.

[FireJimCaldwell]

This is a message board. People will make statements and offer opinions. That is sorta one of the main purposes. Over time you learn who tries to throw stuff against the wall in hopes that it sticks. I.e ( a) No coach could win with this talent, B) Jim Caldwell sucks c)Tom Brady wouldn't win here d) Peyton Manning would have 10 rings in New England) these statements get made without much thought or evidence to back it up. Other posters will supply an opinion and state reasons for such opinion.

So it's up to the individual reader to take in the information and comprehend it. Unfortunately like nearly aspect of society we have smart people that read and post here, and we have dumb people that read and post here, and sometimes when they come across each other it's not pretty. A dumb person reading an intelligent post can't quite comprehend it at times and a smart person reading the dumb post can be confused at the intent or meaning at times too.

In away it's like calling an 800 number for customer service. You either get really lucky and get someone that is good at their job, that can communicate clearly, or you have really bad luck and speak to someone that has no business being in the position that they are in for one reason or another.

Personally, I would put Caldwell in the lower 12.5% of the coaches in the NFL. There are some on that list that I wouldn't want to hire as the Colts coach, but I would still find them more qualified and a better coach than Caldwell. Del Rio is an example of that. I wouldn't want to hire him, but I would take him over Caldwell. Whisenhunt, McCarthy are in the same boat. I wouldn't want them, but I feel that they are upgrades to Caldwell. You could look at a list of coaches fired over the past 3-4 years and I'd take 50-60% of those guys over Caldwell too, and some of those guys are already back on the list the original poster listed.

I don't think he was qualified for a job of this nature. We didn't need a coach that needed to break in. You don't put a rookie jockey on a Kentucky Derby favorite, but you can put well seasoned jockey on a young horse that needs to be broken in properly.

Will he make it through the season? Likely, but that will be an even bigger mistake than hiring him to start with.

[dn4192]

This is a message board. People will make statements and offer opinions. That is sorta one of the main purposes. Over time you learn who tries to throw stuff against the wall in hopes that it sticks. I.e ( a) No coach could win with this talent, B) Jim Caldwell sucks c)Tom Brady wouldn't win here d) Peyton Manning would have 10 rings in New England) these statements get made without much thought or evidence to back it up. Other posters will supply an opinion and state reasons for such opinion.

So it's up to the individual reader to take in the information and comprehend it. Unfortunately like nearly aspect of society we have smart people that read and post here, and we have dumb people that read and post here, and sometimes when they come across each other it's not pretty. A dumb person reading an intelligent post can't quite comprehend it at times and a smart person reading the dumb post can be confused at the intent or meaning at times too.

In away it's like calling an 800 number for customer service. You either get really lucky and get someone that is good at their job, that can communicate clearly, or you have really bad luck and speak to someone that has no business being in the position that they are in for one reason or another.

Personally, I would put Caldwell in the lower 12.5% of the coaches in the NFL. There are some on that list that I wouldn't want to hire as the Colts coach, but I would still find them more qualified and a better coach than Caldwell. Del Rio is an example of that. I wouldn't want to hire him, but I would take him over Caldwell. Whisenhunt, McCarthy are in the same boat. I wouldn't want them, but I feel that they are upgrades to Caldwell. You could look at a list of coaches fired over the past 3-4 years and I'd take 50-60% of those guys over Caldwell too, and some of those guys are already back on the list the original poster listed.

I don't think he was qualified for a job of this nature. We didn't need a coach that needed to break in. You don't put a rookie jockey on a Kentucky Derby favorite, but you can put well seasoned jockey on a young horse that needs to be broken in properly.

Will he make it through the season? Likely, but that will be an even bigger mistake than hiring him to start with.

Exactly how wasn't he qualified? I am continually baffled by that reasoning?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Exactly how wasn't he qualified? I am continually baffled by that reasoning?

He wasn't as qualified as other potential coaches. He didn't have a brilliant looking resume. He offered continuity to a previous system, that along with a knowledge of the players/system were his only positive attributes. Which when the key component leaves a system(Dungy), it is time to change the system more than trying to have someone else attempting to run it. Which is expanded on with Manning being out. We are still trying to run that offense even the same way without great success. Manning is able to cover up some of the issues the offense has which were more visible with the Collins/Painter combo.

Zero experience as an offensive or defensive coordinator.(key component since he was never in charge of offense or defense on a game day basis) which is apparent.

Poor collegiate coaching record. (obviously a good record isn't a magic key to a successful pro career(Spurrier, Saban, Petrino), but it helps. In that aspect Tressel is far more qualified than Caldwell.

He's spent a lifetime in the game, and drawn from Paterno & Dungy and the others he's worked with but I would have felt much more comfortable having someone that ran an offense or defense at the pro level than someone who was only a position coach. Some staffs are made up differently, and some coaches like Holmgren early in his career took on play calling duties thus eliminating the need of an Offensive coordinator by title, but you have a guy like Andy Reid that was the QB coach with Holmgren that is much different than when Moore was our OC and Caldwell was the QB coach.

Obviously not every coach will be a OC or DC before their first NFL job, Harbaugh for example wasn't, but he also was successful at Stanford and San Diego at the college level. Spurrier & Saban would have been successful pro coaches if they would have taken the Colts job, but they weren't with the Redskins/Dolphins respectively.

I feel he was given the job more than he earned it and that is just how it appears to me.

[shaunzo]

He's gonna get canned. If he doesn't, then they're rewarding him for failure. I still believe that a better coach could have three wins with this team as is right now. Stop feeling sorry for this guy just because Manning's out. It's not Peyton's responsibility to make Caldwell look like a good coach, but that's exactly what he's been doing since Caldwell took over.

[LUVTHESHOE]

He's gonna get canned. If he doesn't, then they're rewarding him for failure. I still believe that a better coach could have three wins with this team as is right now. Stop feeling sorry for this guy just because Manning's out. It's not Peyton's responsibility to make Caldwell look like a good coach, but that's exactly what he's been doing since Caldwell took over.

Very well sataed!

[dn4192]

He's gonna get canned. If he doesn't, then they're rewarding him for failure. I still believe that a better coach could have three wins with this team as is right now. Stop feeling sorry for this guy just because Manning's out. It's not Peyton's responsibility to make Caldwell look like a good coach, but that's exactly what he's been doing since Caldwell took over.

Failure? 1 SB, 2 divisional titles and as of right now a winning record. That's failure? Caldwell isn't going anywhere, some coaches may be let go, but come next season Caldwell will be the head coach. You can take that to the bank...even if the Colts go 0-16

[KyFan18]

Are the coaches not in bold coaches you think Caldwell can outcoach? Because if they are, all the watching you're doing isn't paying off. Hue Jackson has reinvigorated the Raiders. Chan Gailey has gotten more out of the Bills (who people thought would be awful this year) than anyone thought possible. The 49ers were a laughingstock last year and Harbaugh has them sitting with the second best record in the entire NFL. Caldwell couldn't devise a gameplan to beat the Kansas City Chiefs.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Are the coaches not in bold coaches you think Caldwell can outcoach? Because if they are, all the watching you're doing isn't paying off. Hue Jackson has reinvigorated the Raiders. Chan Gailey has gotten more out of the Bills (who people thought would be awful this year) than anyone thought possible. The 49ers were a laughingstock last year and Harbaugh has them sitting with the second best record in the entire NFL. Caldwell couldn't devise a gameplan to beat the Kansas City Chiefs.

I took it as his bold names were far and above better than Caldwell, and he went on to explain that many others were likely better than him too. You gave two other perfect examples.

I believe you could classify them as Elite, adequate questionable and horrible.

Edited October 21, 2011 by FIreJimmy

[KyFan18]

I took it as his bold names were far and above better than Caldwell, and he went on to explain that many others were likely better than him too. You gave two other perfect examples.

I believe you could classify them as Elite, adequate questionable and horrible.

That makes more sense.

[The Fish]

"He wasn't as qualified as other potential coaches. He didn't have a brilliant looking resume. He offered continuity to a previous system, that along with a knowledge of the players/system were his only positive attributes. Which when the key component leaves a system(Dungy),"

Bingo.. to expand just a bit here, it was an OK move at the time, but w/o Peyton (that's who we were maintaining the status quo for) the flaw in that approach has been exposed.

[BIGugly]

You "watch" I am guessing from your couch or Lazy boy? Yep that is a way to make an informed opinion. I watch hours of shows on the Food channel but I still can't cook.

Doggone, that's really too bad.

Edited October 21, 2011 by BIGugly