Toler and Powers

[Smonroe]

The Colts chose not to re-sign Jerraud Powers.  This was fine by me, I used to joke that Powers was still on his Auburn schedule.  He never played more than 12 games in any season.

 

So we pick up Toler, who apparently is in witness protection somewhere.  Powers is still playing (although he only has 9 games under his belt right  now).

 

The Cards signed Powers for 3 years/10.5M with 3M guaranteed.  The Colts signed Toler for 3 years/15M.

 

Now that we have the ability of hindsight, was it a good move picking up Toler and letting Powers go?

 

Yes, I understand that there's a lot of football to be played.  But we don't play for another week and I didn't have anyone that should be cut.

[Balzer40]

Toler is much better than Powers. 

[TKnight24]

Greg Toler is a poor man's Asante Samuels

He's gonna take chances at the ball. But he's much better than Powers

[Smonroe]

To both of you - Toler is only better than Powers if he plays.  He's better than no one right now.

 

I'm not trying to start a controversy though.  This should be about who is better and who is helping their team more.

 

I agree Toler is better.  But Powers is helping his team more - right now.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Greg Toler is a poor man's Asante Samuels

He's gonna take chances at the ball. But he's much better than Powers

assante Samuels is a poor man's assante Samuel nowa days lol

[Balzer40]

To both of you - Toler is only better than Powers if he plays.  He's better than no one right now.

 

I'm not trying to start a controversy though.  This should be about who is better and who is helping their team more.

 

I agree Toler is better.  But Powers is helping his team more - right now.

 

 

 

That may have some truth to it, but Powers was incredibly undependable here, unless you depended on him to miss games. I also don't think Powers was cut out for our style of defense. It sucks that Toler has missed some games, but when he's healthy he's twice the player Powers is.

[TKnight24]

assante Samuels is a poor man's assante Samuel nowa days lol

That's not in my control. I was just answering the OP question

[SteelDragon]

Wonder if we overpayed.....   I'll take Toler over Powers, regardless.  Powers is injury-prone, so injuries are a wash.  

[Smonroe]

TBH, I guess I haven't watched Toler as close as you guys.  From my observations, he seems like an average CB who gets beat a lot.

 

When Powers wasn't injured (rarely) he played pretty well.  But like Balzer pointed out, Toler is a lot more suited to our system than Powers.

 

I'd be a lot more happy with the pick up if Toler was actually playing and Vaughn was on the bench.

[Gavin]

Dont matter, neither are a #2. I think some of you are blind to the abuse Toler was taking almost on a gamely basis since we got someone way worse in there now in Vaughn

[MTC]

I would take Powers over Toler. Powers is making more plays in Arizona than Toler is.

[TKnight24]

Does Powers even start in Arizona?

When you have Patrick Peterson that's all I know in their secondary besides the honey badger

[Gavin]

Does Powers even start in Arizona?

When you have Patrick Peterson that's all I know in their secondary besides the honey badger

He's started 10 games

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Dont matter, neither are a #2. I think some of you are blind to the abuse Toler was taking almost on a gamely basis since we got someone way worse in there now in Vaughn

I agree completely 

[TYhaze]

Dont matter, neither are a #2. I think some of you are blind to the abuse Toler was taking almost on a gamely basis since we got someone way worse in there now in Vaughn

Except it seems the secondary clicks more when Toler is on the field. He's probably "picked on" more because they don't want to throw at Vontae near as much. Someone's gotta give up yards

[TKnight24]

He's started 10 games

Oh. Well Arizona's defense as a whole is a force to be reckoned with.

One of the reasons I'm nervous heading into Sunday's game.

Dockett, Peterson, Honey Badger, Acho, Campbell....... the list goes on & on. If there was ever a time in the season we needed to really protect Andrew Luck it would be this game coming up

[HtownColt]

Toler plays way tighter coverage than Powers ever did, just some QBs were placing the ball in good spots on Toler early on but he be right in the receivers hip pocket even if they catch it. Only time he was really burnt was Eric Decker that I recall, and he was beat on the Goalline on a Denarius Moore 2 yrd slant TD, oh yea and Golden Tate beat him on a corner route for a TD.

Sucks he's missed the past 3 games.

I'll take Toler over Powers and wouldn't think twice. Toler has23 tackles, 7 pass defensed and 1 int to Powers 33 tackles, 8 pass defensed 0 ints and Toler played 3 less games than Powers

Edit: My bad Powers did pick off Chad Henne today for his 1st of the season

[Balzer40]

Toler plays way tighter coverage than Powers ever did, just some QBs were placing the ball in good spots on Toler early on but he be right in the receivers hip pocket even if they catch it. Only time he was really burnt was Eric Decker that I recall, and he was beat on the Goalline on a Denarius Moore 2 yrd slant TD, oh yea and Golden Tate beat him on a corner route for a TD.

Sucks he's missed the past 3 games.

I'll take Toler over Powers and wouldn't think twice. Toler has23 tackles, 7 pass defensed and 1 int to Powers 33 tackles, 8 pass defensed 0 ints and Toler played 3 less games than Powers

I'm glad somebody else pays attention. Honestly don't know how anybody can think Powers is even in Tolers ballpark, because he's not.

[TKnight24]

Toler plays way tighter coverage than Powers ever did, just some QBs were placing the ball in good spots on Toler early on but he be right in the receivers hip pocket even if they catch it. Only time he was really burnt was Eric Decker that I recall, and he was beat on the Goalline on a Denarius Moore 2 yrd slant TD, oh yea and Golden Tate beat him on a corner route for a TD.

Sucks he's missed the past 3 games.

I'll take Toler over Powers and wouldn't think twice. Toler has23 tackles, 7 pass defensed and 1 int to Powers 33 tackles, 8 pass defensed 0 ints and Toler played 3 less games than Powers

Point & Case

*Closes suitcase, loosens tie, & walks out of the courtroom sipping apple juice*

[Smonroe]

Point & Case

*Closes suitcase, loosens tie, & walks out of the courtroom sipping apple juice*

Powers had 6 tackles, leading number for the Cards. Also an INT. Toler had ...

So tighten up that tie, pick up the suitcase (why you need that in a courtroom is beyond me), spit out the juice, and get back to work.

From the comments here I see there's a lot of disparity on fans opinions about Toler.

[Gavin]

Oh. Well Arizona's defense as a whole is a force to be reckoned with.

One of the reasons I'm nervous heading into Sunday's game.

Dockett, Peterson, Honey Badger, Acho, Campbell....... the list goes on & on. If there was ever a time in the season we needed to really protect Andrew Luck it would be this game coming up

Docketts been so so in his career nothing outstanding, His career high is 9 sacks...6 years ago. Mathieu has been very solid and thats not just for a rookie..I mean solid overall...Glad they put him at FS because I think it would not have went well if they started him at Corner.....I think Cherilus should be able to keep Campbell in check I think

[Balzer40]

Powers had 6 tackles, leading number for the Cards. Also an INT. Toler had ...

So tighten up that tie, pick up the suitcase (why you need that in a courtroom is beyond me), spit out the juice, and get back to work.

From the comments here I see there's a lot of disparity on fans opinions about Toler.

There is only disparity because some only pay attention to stat lines. Just like the arguement that Toler gets picked on, well unless you have 2 Darrell Revis'(in his prime) 1 CB is always going to be more targeted than the other. When you have Vontae on 1 side and Butler playing nickle then the obvious choice is to go after Toler. The secondary has taken a huge hit since Toler got injured and it shows on the entire defense. Were not getting coverage sacks like we were when Toler was healthy.

[BOTT]

Not sure why this is a question. Powers can't play press man....he's a zone guy and a mediocre one at that.

[Smonroe]

There is only disparity because some only pay attention to stat lines. Just like the arguement that Toler gets picked on, well unless you have 2 Darrell Revis'(in his prime) 1 CB is always going to be more targeted than the other. When you have Vontae on 1 side and Butler playing nickle then the obvious choice is to go after Toler. The secondary has taken a huge hit since Toler got injured and it shows on the entire defense. Were not getting coverage sacks like we were when Toler was healthy.

Al good points. My main beef with Toler is that he's not playing.

Anyone watching Powers? I'm curious if he's still playing cover two zone, or if he only did that with us because it was his job.

[House]

Totally forgot about Powers.

Stop reminding me of our old D please.

[James Harden]

Totally forgot about Powers.

Stop reminding me of our old D please.

what D? we had a D in the past? 

[coltsfanatic24]

Toler is a huge upgrade over Powers, faster and much better in man coverage. Powers is a zone CB doesn't have the speed or quickness to cover WR's in man coverage. Eventually i do think will draft a CB because Toler can not stay healthy and he's been inconsistent.

[throwing BBZ]

There is only disparity because some only pay attention to stat lines. Just like the arguement that Toler gets picked on, well unless you have 2 Darrell Revis'(in his prime) 1 CB is always going to be more targeted than the other. When you have Vontae on 1 side and Butler playing nickle then the obvious choice is to go after Toler. The secondary has taken a huge hit since Toler got injured and it shows on the entire defense. Were not getting coverage sacks like we were when Toler was healthy.

 

Nailed it. And the next post.

Powers tackled well, but he had to in cover 2 with his speed.

Yes I would take him over Vaughn as a backup. Vaughn is a little better than last year. One more year with Chuck & friends and he might be halfway decent.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Powers & Toler are both good players, as a former DB I watch the secondary alot. Powers played well for the Colts but was hurt alot. powers is a good zone CB who will hit & has some quickness & some change of direction. His man skill were average in Indy, but he was learning a new scheme? Not sure if he would or could have improved, he did improve some last year before getting injured. Toler is I think a little faster, will hit people, maybe not as physical as Powers, much better change of direction, plays man better, zone? but Toler will get burned because he WILL TAKE CHANCES, & he will give up a big play because of his aggressiveness! Powers came to the Colts an played in a Defense that you JUST DON'T GIVE UP A BIG PLAY everything in front of you. Both are good And with Toler out apparently both get hurt, which is what bothered me most about Powers. Toler is in his first year here but unless I am mistaken he got hurt in Arizona as well. Bottom line they are both good IMO depending on what you want from your corner. Toler was targeted more only because at that time Davis was playing well, although he given up some intrusting plays lately!

[Rian Huff]

I would take Powers over Toler. Powers is making more plays in Arizona than Toler is.

powers didnt fit well in are system and it showed last year he was getting beat by recievers a lot, not saying hes a bad cb, cuz who knows maybe powers would be better than toler in arizona's system you never know but here toler was better

[Smonroe]

Powers & Toler are both good players, as a former DB I watch the secondary alot. Powers played well for the Colts but was hurt alot. powers is a good zone CB who will hit & has some quickness & some change of direction. His man skill were average in Indy, but he was learning a new scheme? Not sure if he would or could have improved, he did improve some last year before getting injured. Toler is I think a little faster, will hit people, maybe not as physical as Powers, much better change of direction, plays man better, zone? but Toler will get burned because he WILL TAKE CHANCES, & he will give up a big play because of his aggressiveness! Powers came to the Colts an played in a Defense that you JUST DON'T GIVE UP A BIG PLAY everything in front of you. Both are good And with Toler out apparently both get hurt, which is what bothered me most about Powers. Toler is in his first year here but unless I am mistaken he got hurt in Arizona as well. Bottom line they are both good IMO depending on what you want from your corner. Toler was targeted more only because at that time Davis was playing well, although he given up some intrusting plays lately!

Great summation. I like a risk/reward player if he's taking the risks at the right times in the games. My biggest complaint about Toler is that he's not playing. I understand injuries happen. But you're not helping the club from the tub. I really hope he's healthy by the playoffs.

[HtownColt]

Great summation. I like a risk/reward player if he's taking the risks at the right times in the games. My biggest complaint about Toler is that he's not playing. I understand injuries happen. But you're not helping the club from the tub. I really hope he's healthy by the playoffs.

He is healthy and back at practice as of today

[Superman]

To both of you - Toler is only better than Powers if he plays.  He's better than no one right now.

 

I'm not trying to start a controversy though.  This should be about who is better and who is helping their team more.

 

I agree Toler is better.  But Powers is helping his team more - right now.

Cassius Vaughn is helping his team more than Toler right now. I wouldn't grade an acquisition in that way. (I think we disagreed on the Thomas signing for a similar reason.)

I prefer Toler to Powers. Although he's going to have to stay on the field for the rest of the season for me not to start getting annoyed with the signing, in this case, because Toler had injury concerns before we signed him. For a bigger, faster player, who I think is better in man coverage, I'm okay with the choice we made, even with a higher yearly average. By the way, Toler had a $1m signing bonus, while Powers had a $3m signing bonus, so the Year 1 money is pretty much the same, but if we want to get rid of Toler, we have a smaller cap penalty than the Cardinals if they want to get rid of Powers.

I think the better choice would have been to go after Brent Grimes or DRC, who both signed one year deals for about $5m each. Or Sean Smith, who signed for three years, $18m, and has been a monster for the Chiefs.

[Dustin]

Cassius Vaughn is helping his team more than Toler right now. I wouldn't grade an acquisition in that way. (I think we disagreed on the Thomas signing for a similar reason.)

I prefer Toler to Powers. Although he's going to have to stay on the field for the rest of the season for me not to start getting annoyed with the signing, in this case, because Toler had injury concerns before we signed him. For a bigger, faster player, who I think is better in man coverage, I'm okay with the choice we made, even with a higher yearly average. By the way, Toler had a $1m signing bonus, while Powers had a $3m signing bonus, so the Year 1 money is pretty much the same, but if we want to get rid of Toler, we have a smaller cap penalty than the Cardinals if they want to get rid of Powers.

I think the better choice would have been to go after Brent Grimes or DRC, who both signed one year deals for about $5m each. Or Sean Smith, who signed for three years, $18m, and has been a monster for the Chiefs.

Or Talib.

[Superman]

Or Talib.

 

Yep. Although I don't think he was ever going to leave the Pats.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Or Talib.

He is a head case,but he can play! Like what we did better, I do like Grimes though aggressive, but smart not sure Toler is always smart using his aggressiveness?

[Superman]

He is a head case,but he can play! Like what we did better, I do like Grimes though aggressive, but smart not sure Toler is always smart using his aggressiveness?

 

In fairness, Grimes was coming off a major knee injury. But that's why he signed for only one year. 

[HtownColt]

In fairness, Grimes was coming off a major knee injury. But that's why he signed for only one year.

Thought Grimes tore his Achilles?

[MR. Blueblood]

Great summation. I like a risk/reward player if he's taking the risks at the right times in the games. My biggest complaint about Toler is that he's not playing. I understand injuries happen. But you're not helping the club from the tub. I really hope he's healthy by the playoffs.

That's the thing, if he takes the risk and is successful it's the right time, but if not then it's the wrong time.

 

I know it's more complicated than that, like if he has safety help or not, but it still remains true that if you gamble and lose you still lost no matter what kind of safety net you might have in place.

[krunk]

To throw a curve ball here, I do like Toler but sometimes I debate within myself if we would have been better off getting Dominique Rodgers Chromartie. Almost everytime I see the dude play he has his man on lock. Even in the game we played against Denver it seemed he always won his match up every time we tried to test him.