Recent Trend Of Pac 10 Qb Anti-Luck Thread

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

First of all, to admit biasm againts the suggestion of drafting Luck with a high draft pick, I have to say I am extremly disappointed at the fans who watched Peyton play 13 Straight years without missing a game, have a nerve damage issue off field and write him off as DONE. Peyton Manning and Bret Farve are the 2 Toughest S.O.B. i've ever seen, and if anybody can come back from a surgery Peyton Manning can.

List of Pac 10 Quarterbacks the last 13 years.

Jake Locklear - Washington 1st round 2011

Trent Edwards - Stanford 3rd round 2007

Matt Lienart - USC 1st round 2006

Kellen Clemens - Oregen 3rd round 2006

Aaron Rodgers - California 1st round pick 24 2005

Andrew Walter - Arizona State 3rd Round 2005

Cason Palmer - USC 1st round 1st overall 2003

Kyle Boller - California 1st round 2003

Joey Harrington - Oregen 1st round 3rd overall 2002

Akili Smith - Oregen 1st round 1999

Cade McNown - UCLA 1st round 1999

RYAN LEAF - WASHINGTON STATE - 1ST ROUND 1998

DO I NEED TO CONTINUE 12 QUARTERBACKS, 9 HOF COLLEGE PLAYERS, 11 GARBAGE NFL PLAYERS. 1 WINNER. I HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO TROY AIKMEN OUT OF UCLA FOR PROOF OTHERWISE THAT SUCK FOR LUCK IS foolish.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Fr33UpFr33ney

[ColtsLegacy]

Well, gee! If only he wasn't in the PAC-10... Who knew all Luck had to do was go to an ACC or SEC school and he would be peaches, just peaches!

P.S. - Jake Locklear sounds like a Heather Locklear love child, but he's not an NFL player.

P.P.S. - Before Carson Palmers' knee injury he was a top tear QB.

P.P.P.S. - The giant capital red letters really help get your point across. Good job.

P.P.P.S. - Oh, nevermind.

[John Waylon]

First of all, I haven't seen anyone around here claiming Peyton is done. I've seen people speculate that he'll only play one or two more seasons, and that's not at all out of the question, but no one who says he's done and won't ever play again.

But I guess it wouldn't be the first time someone has said something dumb around here... I just read a post telling me that because other QB's from a college conference didn't do well at the NFL level, the next QB out of there won't either, however that works.

I'd post the facepalm smiley here, but I've spent too much time in this thread already...

[GoGoColts]

Brian Polian is on the Staff at Princeton. Luck has been scouted every day of his college career by a Colts "insider." There would be basically no risk in taking him if they decide to.

[TCColtsFan]

Although I don't think the Colts should draft Luck unless Manning is not coming back, this is a silly argument. The Pac10 has produced:

Aaron Rodgers, Jim Plunkett, Carson Palmer, Jake Plummer, Warren Moon, Drew Bledsoe, John Elway and Troy Aikman. Some tiny school have also produced great players like Jerry Rice. It is not always about the school but the drive and physical skills of the individual.

[GoGoColts]

I think that we should just call 1 800 DIAL A QUARTER BACK.

[Jason_]

It's the Pac-12 now folks, not the Pac-10 lol.

Seriously though, there are valid points to both sides. I agree that you can't just take an overall look and say that a particular conference, through history, doesn't produce good QB's. But I do think you can compare QB's from the same year and take their conference into consideration and you can also look at recent trends from a particular conference....not so much to look at the QB's themselves but the types and quality of defenses that the QB is playing against within his conference. Kellen Moore is a great example...yes he holds a lot of passing records and has amazing stats, but he plays in a crap division. Would he have the same level of success playing in a the SEC which overall is a much tougher conference with teams that have very good to great defenses? If there is a recent history of great college QB's from the Pac-12 who did nothing in the NFL then that could be something to take into consideration because that could show a trend of declining defenses in that conference allowing for inflated QB stats. If you look at the listed QB's and go back to 2002, there were a several highly projected QB's who didn't amount to anything in the NFL, with Carson Palmer and Aaron Rodgers being the obvious exceptions and I do think it's way too early to say one way or another on Locker.

so in this regard I think it's unfair to take what the OP was saying and counter by saying the same schools also produced Aikman, Moon, Plunkett etc because those players were from another era when perhaps the Pac-10 (as it was then) was a more formidable college conference than it is now.

[jesusislord]

you forgot about mark sanchez and matt cassel

Edited October 11, 2011 by jesusislord

[jesusislord]

also dennis dixon, and matt moore

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Sorry I tought I put Mark Sanchez.

My point is that all these qbs, especially lienart and Palmer were locks as super rookies, future of franchise.

Aaron Rodgers was more of a desperation pick.

I'm pointing out trends. All these highly exhausted qbs in college did very little in the pros. As a USC fan, you can't get more in the pocket stout than Palmer...but it did not translate into the pros. And this guy ha ochocinco and t.j. He did okay, but nothing like mat Ryan and Joe flacco at that point in his career.

Your gonna hang your future on this kid from stanford....i don't think so. I'm not going to take part in routing out manning for a rookie 3 years from now like they tried to do to Farve

[Xfiles]

First of all, to admit biasm againts the suggestion of drafting Luck with a high draft pick, I have to say I am extremly disappointed at the fans who watched Peyton play 13 Straight years without missing a game, have a nerve damage issue off field and write him off as DONE. Peyton Manning and Bret Farve are the 2 Toughest S.O.B. i've ever seen, and if anybody can come back from a surgery Peyton Manning can.

List of Pac 10 Quarterbacks the last 13 years.

Jake Locklear - Washington 1st round 2011

Trent Edwards - Stanford 3rd round 2007

Matt Lienart - USC 1st round 2006

Kellen Clemens - Oregen 3rd round 2006

Aaron Rodgers - California 1st round pick 24 2005

Andrew Walter - Arizona State 3rd Round 2005

Cason Palmer - USC 1st round 1st overall 2003

Kyle Boller - California 1st round 2003

Joey Harrington - Oregen 1st round 3rd overall 2002

Akili Smith - Oregen 1st round 1999

Cade McNown - UCLA 1st round 1999

RYAN LEAF - WASHINGTON STATE - 1ST ROUND 1998

DO I NEED TO CONTINUE 12 QUARTERBACKS, 9 HOF COLLEGE PLAYERS, 11 GARBAGE NFL PLAYERS. 1 WINNER. I HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO TROY AIKMEN OUT OF UCLA FOR PROOF OTHERWISE THAT SUCK FOR LUCK IS foolish.

This is nominated for thread of the year, its full of win.

[Hamboning Will Save URLife]

First of all, to admit biasm againts the suggestion of drafting Luck with a high draft pick, I have to say I am extremly disappointed at the fans who watched Peyton play 13 Straight years without missing a game, have a nerve damage issue off field and write him off as DONE. Peyton Manning and Bret Farve are the 2 Toughest S.O.B. i've ever seen, and if anybody can come back from a surgery Peyton Manning can.

List of Pac 10 Quarterbacks the last 13 years.

Jake Locklear - Washington 1st round 2011

Trent Edwards - Stanford 3rd round 2007

Matt Lienart - USC 1st round 2006

Kellen Clemens - Oregen 3rd round 2006

Aaron Rodgers - California 1st round pick 24 2005

Andrew Walter - Arizona State 3rd Round 2005

Cason Palmer - USC 1st round 1st overall 2003

Kyle Boller - California 1st round 2003

Joey Harrington - Oregen 1st round 3rd overall 2002

Akili Smith - Oregen 1st round 1999

Cade McNown - UCLA 1st round 1999

RYAN LEAF - WASHINGTON STATE - 1ST ROUND 1998

DO I NEED TO CONTINUE 12 QUARTERBACKS, 9 HOF COLLEGE PLAYERS, 11 GARBAGE NFL PLAYERS. 1 WINNER. I HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO TROY AIKMEN OUT OF UCLA FOR PROOF OTHERWISE THAT SUCK FOR LUCK IS foolish.

So...........What you are saying is? You would rather have Painter over Luck, we already know what Curtis brings to the table....nothing !

[JoKeR]

If you'd rather have the Colts draft around Manning that's fine but to suggest not drafting Luck because he's from a certain conference is funny to me. No one seems to give a darn where he's from, because he has all the tools with no holes in his game.

[Case]

Brian Polian is on the Staff at Princeton. Luck has been scouted every day of his college career by a Colts "insider." There would be basically no risk in taking him if they decide to.

Stanford

If the colts have the chance to take luck they will. I don't think they should but I'm sure they will

Edited October 11, 2011 by GoldenDomer87

[Hamboning Will Save URLife]

Stanford

If the colts have the chance to take luck they will. I don't think they should but I'm sure they will

I hope this is true ! I'd much rather have a rookie QB in LUCK, than Painter with 3/4 years of experience backing up the "GOAT"

[Case]

I hope this is true ! I'd much rather have a rookie QB in LUCK, than Painter with 3/4 years of experience backing up the "GOAT"

I'm 100% positive if luck is available colts take him. I like luck but I'm a huge kellen Moore fan and would rather the colts get some defense early and get Moore in the 3rd.

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

So...........What you are saying is? You would rather have Painter over Luck, we already know what Curtis brings to the table....nothing !

What i'm saying is that Luck, for all we know, wont play better then Curtis painter when he gets to the league.

Mark Sanchez is the most highly scouted player I can remember in recent years next to Matt Lienart and Terrel Pryor.

Mark is doing decent I guess, but cmon, they say that this guy is special every year when a QB is at the top of the charts. Are you going to believe what everone tells you. Cuz If I did, i'd believe that Mark and Lienart would have 2 superbowls each already and Pryor will get one his sophmore season.

Eli Manning, did not play that well his Senior season. I watched ever game, and it wasnt that he was playing bad...it was the teams he was playing against late his senior season were playing excellent football.

Jason White from Oklahoma threw 40+ touchdowns and didnt even get drafted, and he won a Hiesman.

Nothing you can say can justify the Enthusiasm of a fan of a team with Peyton Manning, of drafting another QB to take over.

[MAC]

Brian Polian is on the Staff at Princeton. Luck has been scouted every day of his college career by a Colts "insider." There would be basically no risk in taking him if they decide to.

He's a young guy trying to build a career as a special teams coach - not working undercover for his father. He might provide some nice re-assurance as to make-up and leadership, but ability is going to be evaluated by extensive film study. I have no idea how you could suggest that Brian's presence eliminates the risk from drafting him.

[MAC]

So...........What you are saying is? You would rather have Painter over Luck, we already know what Curtis brings to the table....nothing !

Have you been watching the games recently? He has shown more in 2 1/4 games than the aforementioned Mark Sanchez has in 36. And he's getting better.

[MAC]

First of all, I haven't seen anyone around here claiming Peyton is done. I've seen people speculate that he'll only play one or two more seasons, and that's not at all out of the question, but no one who says he's done and won't ever play again.

If you look at the injury threads, there have been numerous people insisting that he is done. More recently there have been a couple of people who are insisting that he is completely washed up regardless of injury. They just want to throw him away and start fresh.

Personally I want to extract every last moment of glory out of Manning career. If we have to take a step backwards afterwards and rebuild, so be it. Rebuilding doesn't take long in the NFL with a good front office (which we have). Throwing away 2-4 years (and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were MORE than that) from the career of THE greatest QB of all times, simply out of fear of a future downturn makes no sense. In any sport, you try to win when the opportunity presents itself. Regardless of how good Luck "may" be, there is only one Peyton Manning.

I hope that the Colts win some games and make the point moot.

[Balzer40]

The entire premise of this thread is about as ignorant as I've seen here yet. I know there are people here that are absolutely dead set against drafting Luck and will not listen to any reasonable debate on the subject, but when they have to start pulling total crap from their rear ends to try and support their agenda it just reeks of desperation. Like the Colts front office is reading this and saying "oh my god, Luck played in the pac-10, no way we can draft him." Without taking the time to look it up, there are probably just as many flops out of the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, and so on. Where a guy plays in college has absolutely nothing to do with how he is going to perform in the NFL. Really stupid thread.

[GoDeep]

Nothing you can say can justify the Enthusiasm of a fan of a team with Peyton Manning, of drafting another QB to take over.

What about the prospect of having the position taken care of for another 10 years?

[Balzer40]

What about the prospect of having the position taken care of for another 10 years?

There's many here that are too narrow minded to look to the future.

[GoDeep]

Also, if we get the 1st pick, our second round is very close to the first round position that we have picked lately. And we draft well in later rounds. If Luck is there when we pick, DRAFT HIM!

[Jason_]

There's many here that are too narrow minded to look to the future.

the idea that people who are against drafting Luck are not looking to the future is just absurd beyond comprehension. The only truly narrow minded ones are those who believe the Colts' only chance for future success is with Luck, who may or may not be any better than Alex Smith but according to some, that's worth taking the chance to find out, no questions asked. :blink:

Edited October 11, 2011 by Jason

[Balzer40]

the idea that people who are against drafting Luck are not looking to the future is just absurd beyond comprehension. The only truly narrow minded ones are those who believe the Colts' only chance for future success is with Luck, who may or may not be any better than Alex Smith but according to some, that's worth taking the chance to find out, no questions asked. :blink:

Its no more absurd than this thread. I also just responded to your Alex Smith comparisons in one of the other threads. Where this is coming from now is beyond me. Because of the Harbaugh relationship I guess. Suddenly, Luck must be tied to success because he played for Harbaugh because Smith has now had success in a few games with Harbaugh .

Edited October 11, 2011 by Balzer40

[Jason_]

Its no more absurd than this thread. I also just responded to your Alex Smith comparisons in one of the other threads. Where this is coming from now is beyond me. Because of the Harbaugh relationship I guess. Suddenly, Luck must be tied to success because he played for Harbaugh because Smith has now had success in a few games with Harbaugh .

Where is it coming from? Really you can't see where I'm coming from? Yeah I don't have any crayons and construction paper to draw pictures. So far though you're the only person that's made any comment about not seeing the correlation at all.

[Xfiles]

I am in no way against the use of the pick to rebuild many issues, and have never said I was. But they would have to get a kings ransom for it. It just makes more sense to me, in a Quarterback driven league, to insure the MOST important position on the field in the future. I mean after all, we have two of the best Pass rushing DE's in the league and the defense still wreaks every year, but when our Ace QB plays, no matter what the defense does, we have a chance to win. Luck looks like he could be that guy for the next 12 years after Peyton retires.........no Guarantees, but educated guesses are all the scouts can ever go on.

[JoKeR]

I'm 100% positive if luck is available colts take him. I like luck but I'm a huge kellen Moore fan and would rather the colts get some defense early and get Moore in the 3rd.

I doubt Moore will still be there in the 3rd. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone in the 1st round, plenty teams will need a QB.

[GoDeep]

I doubt Moore will still be there in the 3rd. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone in the 1st round, plenty teams will need a QB.

Agreed, look at the run on QBs in the 1st this year.

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

I am in no way against the use of the pick to rebuild many issues, and have never said I was. But they would have to get a kings ransom for it. It just makes more sense to me, in a Quarterback driven league, to insure the MOST important position on the field in the future.

This is what i'm talking about people, Using the word INSURE.

You mean sure like Leaf, Like Jermarcus Russle.

There is nobody to be sure of.

Reggie Bush, to me, is undoubtedly the best college football player that I've ever seen, and probably that ever lived.

And he sucks in the NFL without a doubt.

So why...why cause a quarterback contreversy? Why push Manning to retirement when it is not necessary. (The surgery replaced intervetebral disc tissue, it not as big as a deal as people are making it.)

Last time Manning played he was Pro Bowling it up...what's the big problem.

What rookie do you know of is worth causing all the problems and tension that went on in Green Bay is worth the "Risk"

Draft defense, CB or LB and trade down for more picks. It's the smart thing to do.

[Balzer40]

This is what i'm talking about people, Using the word INSURE.

You mean sure like Leaf, Like Jermarcus Russle.

There is nobody to be sure of.

Reggie Bush, to me, is undoubtedly the best college football player that I've ever seen, and probably that ever lived.

And he sucks in the NFL without a doubt.

So why...why cause a quarterback contreversy? Why push Manning to retirement when it is not necessary. (The surgery replaced intervetebral disc tissue, it not as big as a deal as people are making it.)

Last time Manning played he was Pro Bowling it up...what's the big problem.

What rookie do you know of is worth causing all the problems and tension that went on in Green Bay is worth the "Risk"

Draft defense, CB or LB and trade down for more picks. It's the smart thing to do.

And this is what I've been talking about. The comparisons you used, Russell, Leaf, Bush, every single one of those guys had questions about them. Everyone knew Russell and Leaf were lazy baffoons and were very immature, There were many many scouts that said Bush would never be an every down back in the NFL and that he would have to be used in a certain scheme. Not one, not a single scout has raised any such questions about Luck. Luck is a different breed that is rarely seen in a draft and simply can not be compared to just any old draftee in other yrs.. Thats the difference, No it does not guarantee success(as I have repeated many many times) but comparing him to others in 99% of other drafts is not an accurate comparison. I seen a pro scout on TV during a college game here while back and he said that Luck is the best Player(not QB) but player to come out of college in 25 yrs.. That every single grade scouts go on when scouting a player were higher than those of Manning. I am not going to take the word of a complete football novice on a message board over the word of many professional scouts that watch 100's if not 1000's of players every single yr..

Edited October 12, 2011 by Balzer40

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Sec Conference

Cam Newton - Auburn 1st round pick 2011

Tim Tebow - Florida 1st round pick 2010

Mathew Stafford - Georgia 1st overall 2009

Jammarcus Russle - LSU 1st overall 2007

Jay Cutler - Vanderbilt 1st round 2006

Jason Cambell - Auburn 1st round 2005

David Greene - Georgia 3rd round 2005

Eli Manning - Mississipi 1st overall 2004

Rex Grosman - Florida 1st round 2003

Is say this is at least 3x better than the Pac - 10 in the same time with 10x less hype around each player. Even with Jamarcus Russle

My point is, a lot of hype comes out of the Pac - 10 but history says, after Aikmen, they all suck.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Fr33UpFr33ney

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

And this is what I've been talking about. The comparisons you used, Russell, Leaf, Bush, every single one of those guys had questions about them. Everyone knew Russell and Leaf were lazy baffoons and were very immature, There were many many scouts that said Bush would never be an every down back in the NFL and that he would have to be used in a certain scheme. Not one, not a single scout has raised any such questions about Luck. Luck is a different breed that is rarely seen in a draft and simply can not be compared to just any old draftee in other yrs.. Thats the difference, No it does not guarantee success(as I have repeated many many times) but comparing him to others in 99% of other drafts is not an accurate comparison. I seen a pro scout on TV during a college game here while back and he said that Luck is the best Player(not QB) but player to come out of college in 25 yrs.. That every single grade scouts go on when scouting a player were higher than those of Manning. I am not going to take the word of a complete football novice on a message board over the word of many professional scouts that watch 100's if not 1000's of players every single yr..

Have you taken a look at the teams that Stanford play? Duke? San Jose State? USC (It pains me to say bieng a fan)

The only team they play that is a challenge is Oragen and UCLA on a good day.

Luck is a great QB. Look at his stats...They are amazing. But that still proves nothing...ESPECIALLY IN THE PAC -10/12 AS OF RIGHT NOW, THEY HAVE ONLY 1 RANKED TEAM ON THIER SCHEDULE.

YOU GUYS ARE MISSING THE POINT....STOP ACTING LIKE SOMEHOW THESE TALK SHOW HOST...WHO ARE NO MORE KNOWLEGABLE THAN ANYBODY ELSE WHO WATCHES ESPN ALL DAY AND NIGHT...HAVE THE FINAL WORD ON THE LEGACY OF LUCK.

THATS ALL I'M SAYING.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Fr33UpFr33ney

[smittywerb]

You didn't need to capitalize Ryan Leaf. He was a knucklehead coming out of college. He said the first thing he would do after he was to be drafted was go to Vegas. He went to Vegas and was late for his first practice with the Chargers. Ryan Leaf had a lot of red flags coming out of college.

[21isSuperman]

Well, gee! If only he wasn't in the PAC-10... Who knew all Luck had to do was go to an ACC or SEC school and he would be peaches, just peaches!

P.S. - Jake Locklear sounds like a Heather Locklear love child, but he's not an NFL player.

P.P.S. - Before Carson Palmers' knee injury he was a top tear QB.

P.P.P.S. - The giant capital red letters really help get your point across. Good job.

P.P.P.S. - Oh, nevermind.

rotfl I agree with you on the Locklear thing. I thought it was a different QB until I saw the year...

Was Palmer a top tier QB? I didn't follow the Bengals much and when I did start to pay closer attention to him, it was after the injury and he hasn't done much to impress me. People say he was a good QB, but I'm not sold...keep in mind I've only closely seen his play post-injury

[HellMarine]

rotfl I agree with you on the Locklear thing. I thought it was a different QB until I saw the year...

Was Palmer a top tier QB? I didn't follow the Bengals much and when I did start to pay closer attention to him, it was after the injury and he hasn't done much to impress me. People say he was a good QB, but I'm not sold...keep in mind I've only closely seen his play post-injury

Yes, he was. He lead the league in TDs and passer rating I believe in '05. I know for sure on TD's. The knee injury shell-shocked him.

Anyways, I am a hardcore Bengals fan, just for the record. But I gotta say, this has to be the stupidest, and most worthless thread I've ever seen.

Luck is the best prospect to come out in a LONG time. The conference doesn't matter. If you can play ball, you can play ball. If the Colts miss on this opportunity to get Luck and have him learn from Peyton, the Colts are going to be a very regretful organization.

[MAC]

rotfl I agree with you on the Locklear thing. I thought it was a different QB until I saw the year...

Was Palmer a top tier QB? I didn't follow the Bengals much and when I did start to pay closer attention to him, it was after the injury and he hasn't done much to impress me. People say he was a good QB, but I'm not sold...keep in mind I've only closely seen his play post-injury

I can't say that I "watched" Palmer closely, but everything I saw or heard back in 2005 - his second year - indicated that he was already one of the top ten QBs in the league and rising fast. They played the Colts that year, and I remember an article about Palmer and Chad Johnson coming to watch the Colts play during their bye week (immediately before the Colts game) with the goal of emulating the chemistry between Manning and Harrison. The game against the Colts was a shootout, and Palmer looked every bit as good as advertised. He then went on the lead the Bengals to a RARE playoff appearance. His states that year were impressive. The next two years were still good statistically, but for he seemed to have regressed rather than improved - which is bizarre for someone of his age. Then the injury.

I'm not entirely clear that his decline was entirely due to the injury. His recent actions seem to indicate a mental dysfunction of some kind. Maybe just being a Bengal just beat the enthusiasm and work ethic out of him.

[Portage Coltfans]

How do these "luck lovers" think we are going to win with Luck as our QB with a garbage team?

by time luck plays for us Freeney, mathis, saturday, wayne, clark, etc will all be gone. The core of the colts is getting to old to play with Luck.

Our best bet is to draft player that will help Manning win Superbowls between 2012 and 2015

[smittywerb]

How do these "luck lovers" think we are going to win with Luck as our QB with a garbage team?

by time luck plays for us Freeney, mathis, saturday, wayne, clark, etc will all be gone. The core of the colts is getting to old to play with Luck.

Our best bet is to draft player that will help Manning win Superbowls between 2012 and 2015

Do you realize how GARBAGE this team is without Peyton? It is gonna take a long time to fill those holes. Let's face it, we are gonna face some tough years in the future so getting high draft picks will not be a problem. Why not draft our "next" Peyton Manning and do what we can with the next picks to build for the future and help Peyton. We have 6 other high picks that will be able to contribute.

If we were serious about giving Peyton Manning a SB, we would have been drafting and signing players to FIX PROBLEMS rather than continue with the same ol same ol. Colts fans, including myself, don't want to admit it but the with this team's level of talent, Peyton's health and age, and the fact almost all the teams around us are getting better, it is going to be hard to hold the window of opportunity open. People do not realize the recent bad drafts and our lack of activity in FA has put us in a tight situation. Don't get me wrong, I bleed blue & white just like any other Colts fan, and I am from Baltimore so that just adds to my loyalty, but I look at things the way they are. I don't even think Peyton can win with this with all the injuries.