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Why Peyton Manning Can Become The G.O.A.T.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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yes I did . . . I had actually done it a few years ago . . . I had to redo it last night . . .

 

glad your responded so that I can more explain myself . . . my main thrust for the posting was not to direct my point at entire season but of the first 15 games . . . specifically, many people talk about how Brady was left in the games late in the 4th chucking the ball down the field and at the same time stating that Manning was taken out of games . . . so yes we understand about week 17, but of the 15 prior games one can not say that one team acted different than another team . . .

 

surely the haters in the media will try to paint the Pats in a given light . . . but when all of the agenda goes away, when people look at the facts and what happen when it happen and at the time in the games it happen , , , one will find out that for the first 15 games of 2004 and 2007 the teams in question did not act that much different . . . so bottom line in the first 15 games of the season in question the goose did the same thing as the gander . . . this was my point for setting forth the facts . . .

Thanks for taking the time to do that. One of the many reasons this continues to be one of my favorite football forums.

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Gramz Team Captain

Gramz

Posted
Posted

Usually a "like" is what is standard for a good post. Not repost after repost gushing over the poster

I had a response, but then decided to take the high road, and delete it.

There's already enough negativity floating around.   

Let's all just enjoy the Season, can we?

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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I had a response, but then decided to take the high road, and delete it.

There's already enough negativity floating around.   

Let's all just enjoy the Season, can we?

It's ok Gramz. I know if it was possible you would give me this   :thmdown: for all my posts. I am alright with that.

 

It does always surprise me when I do get the occassional like (yes, I have gotten some) but for the most part I think this board is guilty of this :attack:  a lot.

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

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Posted

And I love everything about this post.

 

Why? Because it's quite possibly one of the worst I've ever seen on this forum. You go from making a great point about subjugating data to fit an argument, and directly follow it up by drawing a horrible, horrible conclusion. Peyton Manning is incredible..and your consistent homerism and bias causes you to to lose any credibility, especially here on a Colts forum.

 

There is nothing wrong with being objective. Not every discussion has to turn into what you always turn it into. The success of one quarterback doesnt at all take away from the success of another. Praising one quarterback doesnt undermine another's accomplishments. I'll never understand why we cant just admire and love this era of football...as both Colts fans and Patriots fans...not only because of the play of our quarterbacks over the last decade and what we as fans were given the privelage of watching, but this is probably the best bunch of years either of our fanbases will ever see. The rivalry was terrific, and I have loved to see how over the last few years the interaction between our fanbases has turned from true hate to that of a mutual respect and admiration for what the other has done. 

 

Colts fans will always think Peyton is the greatest of all time, Patriots fans will always think Brady is the greatest of all time. History will judge it as they always have, and there still wont be a true answer. These 'lists' and 'rankings' have changed every year based on what each guy did that given year...and as you said, the entirety of their careers will be taken into consideration in the end....so how can you be so sure that 'the next accomplishment' for one wont be enough to tip the scales?

 

I have seen that this post has gotten a lot of attention in this thread . . . I was going to chime in earlier when I first saw it but held back, but now I want to say my two cents . . .  

 

I agreed 100% about your last two paragraphs . . . although at times I like AM's posts, sometimes it might be better to let the locals have their fun talking about a subject without bogging down a thread with same old issues, whether they may be justified or not  . . . I am not one to say who can post when and where, but some abstention can be a good thing to let those discuss what they wish in relative peace . . . the internet forum is great, but not as private as a fun talk amongst friends at a watering hole, the conversation is not as private and is opened to the entire world . . . so agreement there . . . I know I have a tough time abstaining myself, and true there is no right or wrong answer, but hopefully moving forward we can see a reduction in the type of exchanges as we have had in the instant thread . . . this forum is a lot of fun and I love many of the poster here and as we have an exciting year coming up with three teams in the pot for most of the posters (NE, IND and DEN), and so there will be a lot of fun posting, hopefully we will have less of the some of the stuff in the instant thread . . .

  

with this said however, I do want to address your first two paragraphs . . . I would not go so far as to say her post was the worst one seen, maybe not getting involving is a better idea, but is it not the worst . . .

 

She was only making the point that 2 SBs would not bring Manning to the GOAT, that is he would not past Brady.  It is kind of like me saying, if you win a 3rd game in a best of 7 series you have not won the series, which is well correct.   Similarly, she is of the opinion that Manning will need at least three SB, and as such 2 are not enough . . . I am too btw

 

If one were to look at SBs as tiebreakers, which I believe you have stated yourself in the past btw, then in order to break the otherwise tie between Manning and Brady (in her opinion), Manning will not be able to do so with just 2 . . .and thus the statement by AM . . . not exactly the worst post when she is using a principle which you agreed and have stated in the past . . .

 

I don't want to start a "is there or isn't there" an overall tie outside of SB titles, but just to point out that if one is of the opinion it exist and SB are tiebreakers is not a terrible out of the original conclusion to say 2 is not enough . . .

 

. . . just my two cents . . .

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

Posted
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Sure... I'm good with that.

 

yah there is something to be said about being thrown into the fire day one and we need to be mindful of that . . . also Manning had to deal with the spotlight of the #1 overall pick . . . both of these need to be factored in to his first year and qualified as such . . . and how it effects the overall total numbers and adjusted accordingly . . .  

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

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This is all I got to say about it......

 

1235920_502531599832412_1072111237_n.jpg

 

Peyton just needs to keep on keepen on, and he will have a great year . . . as the stars have fallen, Peyton has an opportunity to have an historic year . . . and there is more to follow after this year too! . . . its going to be a lot of fun to watch this year, lots of fun  . . .

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dw49 Team Captain

dw49

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yah there is something to be said about being thrown into the fire day one and we need to be mindful of that . . . also Manning had to deal with the spotlight of the #1 overall pick . . . both of these need to be factored in to his first year and qualified as such . . . and how it effects the overall total numbers and adjusted accordingly . . .  

 

 

To be honest , I only reply on this "P.M vs T.B. stat argument " when I see something that doesn't look right. I really think the whole argument is like saying chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla. 

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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It's ok Gramz. I know if it was possible you would give me this :thmdown: for all my posts. I am alright with that.

It does always surprise me when I do get the occassional like (yes, I have gotten some) but for the most part I think this board is guilty of this :attack: a lot.

its pretty sad when even other pats fans don't agree with you on acolts board. i could only imagine the beating youwould take on a pats board
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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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its pretty sad when even other pats fans don't agree with you on acolts board. i could only imagine the beating youwould take on a pats board

Sorry to burst your bubble but Pats fans are not some band of brothers that high five each other and pat each other on the back. We can disagree and still know that we have had one of the best runs in NFL history with the best QB and it is still not finished yet.

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GoPats Practice Squad

GoPats

Posted
Posted

Usually a "like" is what is standard for a good post. Not repost after repost gushing over the poster.

 

I know, but given that negativity is so commonplace, I think it's OK to show the love once in a while.  ;)

 

I'm glad you're here AM, I appreciate your sincerity and you know your football. (See? LOL...) 

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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I know, but given that negativity is so commonplace, I think it's OK to show the love once in a while.  ;)

 

I'm glad you're here AM, I appreciate your sincerity and you know your football. (See? LOL...) 

I know it is not too often that I get to use the love emoticons. I am just jealous. ;)

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

Posted
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Probably best to lock them as soon as they are posted. The title alone was an alert.

 

A thread that has 175+ posts and is spurring discussion (even if it is the same discussion we've been having for the last 8 years, but whatever)? Why would we lock that? Everyone's playing by the rules, and we even got dynasty13 to join in this time. 

 

People can talk about what they want to talk about, even if they're delusional. ;)

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GoPats Practice Squad

GoPats

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its pretty sad when even other pats fans don't agree with you on acolts board. i could only imagine the beating youwould take on a pats board

 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but Pats fans are not some band of brothers that high five each other and pat each other on the back. We can disagree and still know that we have had one of the best runs in NFL history with the best QB and it is still not finished yet.

 

Oh Jvan, Boston sports fans are anything but loyal to each other... we'll throw punches at the bar after an argument, but then argue again about who's buying the next round.  ;)  It's like having a few million siblings. 

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

Posted
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Probably best to lock them as soon as they are posted. The title alone was an alert.

 

yes to a degree I hear yah . . . but at the same time we are a guest in their internet watering hole . . . and although the subject regarding Peyton Manning now is technically a general forum subject, it is still a colts related subject as his tenure in Indy is not that far attenuated . . . so its kind of a pseudo colts football subject . . . and to that degree perhaps some posters might like to talk amongst themselves . . . this is the sense I got from this thread but I could be wrong . . . and there have been times when I said my two cents and later thought perhaps I should have let the gang chat amongst themselves . . .

 

true I have said many times that the NFL General section should to free for all to respond and post and that it is not a colts-general section . . . and the NFL general section is free for all non colts fans to come and give their two cents . . . but I just have the feeling this thread is not necessarily a typically NFL general thread . . . its not like the title was who is the best QB presently and we had a discussion . . .

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

Posted
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yes to a degree I hear yah . . . but at the same time we are a guest in their internet watering hole . . . and although the subject regarding Peyton Manning now is technically a general forum subject, it is still a colts related subject as his tenure in Indy is not that far attenuated . . . so its kind of a pseudo colts football subject . . . and to that degree perhaps some posters might like to talk amongst themselves . . . this is the sense I got from this thread but I could be wrong . . . and there have been times when I said my two cents and later thought perhaps I should have let the gang chat amongst themselves . . .

 

true I have said many times that the NFL General section should to free for all to respond and post and that it is not a colts-general section . . . and the NFL general section is free for all non colts fans to come and give their two cents . . . but I just have the feeling this thread is not necessarily a typically NFL general thread . . . its not like the title was who is the best QB presently and we had a discussion . . .

Yes, I don't disagree but it seems that these types of threads always disintegrate. Not sure if having a thread get to five pages is a good barometer for  what is healthy vs. unhealthly but I will leave that to the Mods.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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Yes, I don't disagree but it seems that these types of threads always disintegrate. Not sure if having a thread get to five pages is a good barometer for what is healthy vs. unhealthly but I will leave that to the Mods.

it sure beats dozens of threads dedicated to your obsession with Wes Welker

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bayone Walk On

bayone

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A thread that has 175+ posts and is spurring discussion (even if it is the same discussion we've been having for the last 8 years, but whatever)? Why would we lock that? Everyone's playing by the rules, and we even got dynasty13 to join in this time. 

 

People can talk about what they want to talk about, even if they're delusional. ;)

 

Bless the delusional.

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bayone Walk On

bayone

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I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than I have too, I just want to make a quick response to your point . . . yes Peyton sat out for essentially game 16, but if we look at the first 15 games, things are not as they may seem or reported by the media . . .

 

In the first 15 games of the respective seasons the teams back-ups contribution is as follows:

 

Colts back ups (all Sorgi)

 

3 games

33 snaps

5 possessions

2 knee downs

*Total time as QB of record 38:50 mins

 

 

Pats back ups (Cassell and Gutierrez)

 

5 games

37 snaps

8 possessions

1 kneel down

Total time as QB of record 34:50 mins**

 

*Time of record is the time the QB came into the game and was the QB for the team, so for example if a back up came in at the 7 min mark of the 4th and played the rest of the game I have that as 7 minutes at time of record . . .

 

**the pats back-up time in the game would have been longer but Cassel threw a pick six and Brady came back in the game for one possession in the Miami game . . .

 

bottom line the contribution and the attributing mitigation by the backups in the first 15 games is not that much different . . .  

 

 

that is interesting, 1 thing, and dont know how to look this up nor have the time , but in games even without Sorgi in garbage time peyton if i remember right & I may be wrong  would turn style to more run off the clock to Via the run than a passing attack as that was Colt style of play 

 

and if u sub the 1st playoff game Vs denver , for that 16th game he played first  series in and sorgi got his 1 TD Vs Denver in that 16th game, Peyton got 4 in the playoffs which of course is just assumption, but he probably would of got a few if played in regular season too Vs same team, but of course thats an assumption , 

 

also again in those 1st 15 games missing over 1 quarter of Lion game where he already threw for 6 I would assume he could of thrown for more

 

when u miss more time in 1 game rather than coming in at  tail end of more games, chances are better u can pass for more TDs if playing for a longer time in said game esp against such a weak opponent u were having a great gaame against

 

I really may be explaining this point poorly and sorry  if I am

 

But as its a team game , so have to give credit to

 

I give credit as well to Moss's incredible manhandling to catch the ball as he accounted for nearly half the TD's,

 

and to Peytons   greaat   3 balanced    wide receivers attack

 

In the end they both are simply  2 of the greatest  great QB's ever and the fact that this discussion is still going on just supports it and will for years , as will the future and past greats that shouild be included

 

For me its  Unitas,  3 MVP's  3 Championships ( 1st few years 1957 through 1960   MVP award  by associated press  was called player of the year thats why jim brown and unitas both actually won 3 times .in 1961 ap v changed name of award to MVP, but was same award and ap lists then in same table.. this I had from old my colts web  site so didnt have to look up   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Most_Valuable_Player_Award )))

 

Thats it for me wish me Luck, Have a late Cat scan for neck &  Dr doubts will be a good one , only question realkly is how bad , and how many points of stenosis are significant, last time  , 2 years back c 3 & c 7 stenosis returned and lately legs much weaker and neck pain increased , original surgery & post op infection over 5 vertebrae was  back in 1988

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MAC Walk On

MAC

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Actually, I'm the one obsessed with Wes Welker.  He's my favorite player not named Peyton Manning. 

 

Andrew Luck and Reggie are right there, but Welker has the heart of a lion. The little ferret that could.

:lol: I can see a series of inspirational kids books on the horizon.

 

"i think I can I think I can I think I can" cross over the middle without getting my head removed.

 

Looking forward to the Broncos playing  in London

 

51SUw%2Buf73L._SY346_.jpg

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Thewholefnshow28 Walk On

Thewholefnshow28

Posted
Posted

Hey guys, remember when we all agreed on one singular player who was greatest of all time?

Yeah me neither.

 

Yeah his name is Jerry Rice and there is no other correct answer for best WR ever. :P

 

The whole Brady/Manning debate will go on and on forever just like Marino/Montana has gone on forever.  Manning has put up crazy stats during the regular season, but has failed to live up to expectations in the playoffs.  Brady stats have bene really good, but he has really stepped it up come playoff.  Brady has got more help overall than Manning though.  Manning for the most part had to drag the Colts to the playoffs as is evident by the team falling flat on its face the moment he got hurt.

 

There are things that put check marks in the best column for both players.  Ultimately, this just boils down to which type of laundry you root for.

 

Either way you slice it is debating between 1A and 1B.  

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