Would you trade Andrew Luck for Aaron Rodgers or any other QB right now?

[Superman]

I can assure you that he is delighted and ready to win. Peyton had that game won twice. That INT didn't cost them the game, the two hail Mary 80 yd. TDs did.......

 

I'd like to like this post, but that stupid dancing emoticon is on my nerves.

[Superman]

Well he was standing on the floor last year then cause he is already that good, time to get the ladder out and start climbing toward the ceiling.

 

No. He. Was. Not.

 

I am a Colts fan. I am a Luck fan. He is the only quarterback in last year's draft that I was okay with us moving on from Manning for. I am thrilled that he is the Colts quarterback. But he was not -- WAS NOT -- as good as Matt Ryan or Ben Roethlisberger last season.

 

And before you come back and say that he was, let me repeat: NO. HE. WAS. NOT.

[jshipp23]

Umm yeah I think Montana is 11th. And Chad Pennington is the 2nd most accurate QB after Drew Brees IMO. Just because some guys aren't all-timers doesn't mean they aren't accurate.

 

And if you want to talk about different offensive systems, Brady dinks and dunks more than any QB in the league. 

 

Brady isn't the most accurate passer ever. If you're basing this off of conditions+receivers+systems, than Chad Pennington is.

Brady plays to his players talents and it changes from season to season he dinks and dunks at times but they sure didn't dink and dunk when they went 16-0, he threw deep balls all over the place. he throws long balls all the time to Gronk and Hernandez...Ok statboy...look up most completions over 20 yds  and see who comes up??

[Dustin]

Brady plays to his players talents and it changes from season to season he dinks and dunks at times but they sure didn't dink and dunk when they went 16-0, he threw deep balls all over the place. he throws long balls all the time to Gronk and Hernandez...Ok statboy...look up most completions over 20 yds and see who comes up??

There were 33 QBs who had a higher percentage of deep passes than Brady did in 2007.

This season there were 16 above him.

[jshipp23]

Pennington's career wasn't long enough to even be in the convo...But I will say Aikman and Warner are up there too...I can't say Manning because he struggled in the elements and had the dome as a security blanket...

[jshipp23]

Umm yeah I think Montana is 11th. And Chad Pennington is the 2nd most accurate QB after Drew Brees IMO. Just because some guys aren't all-timers doesn't mean they aren't accurate.

 

And if you want to talk about different offensive systems, Brady dinks and dunks more than any QB in the league. 

 

Brady isn't the most accurate passer ever. If you're basing this off of conditions+receivers+systems, than Chad Pennington is.

All Pennington ever did was dink and dunk...! He could only throw 25 yards! You contradict yourself all the time.

[amfootball]

Flacco is elite as much as I hate to say it his past 2 years rally validate that...1..He has a missile for an arm 2..Throws the best deep ball 3..Is very accurate..4..Wins clutch games.             Forget he was a dropped pass in the end zone against the Patriots from being in the Super Bowl 2 years in a row..He has made and won playoff games every year since his rookie year. If you watched any Ravens playoff games you could see he put the ball where only his receiver could get it and made a bunch of ok receivers look good. His receivers never really could get separation he made a ton on precision passes with turning the ball over. Look, if a guy shows up and does work you can't hate on them. THE ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF AN ELITE QB IS WHAT DO YOU DO IN THE CLUTCH AND IN PLAYOFF GAMES, HIS RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF... He doesn't get the love because of his bland personality, but when they turned him loose he carried that team in the playoffs last 2 years..I have to admit he is the REAL DEAL even though I'm not a fan. He didn't get 20 million for no reason and if the Ravens didn't 20 other teams would. He won't be the highest paid player when the season starts anyways so that argument is moot.

I think you are my new favorite poster. Let me clue you in about some of the posters here. Most think stats are more important than rings mostly because Peyton delivered plenty of stats and one ring and a bevy of one and done's. When he loses a playoff game like this past year, none of it was his fault despite his three TOs leading to 17 points and despite 14 of his 35 points coming from special teams. Somehow Moore's miscue is the complete reason why they lost - one bad play compared to Manning's three and yet Manning is the one with the 19 mil contract and football pedigree. I didn't even know who Moore was until that play. 

 

OiBU likes to rank on Luck because although his stats were not very good last year, he flat out won games. Made all the plays necessary to win. Colts fans are not used to this. They are used to stats and great regular seasons and then one and done in the playoffs. Luck will deliver big time when it counts - playoff time. In other words, it won't take him six seasons to win a playoff game and I believe he will have at least one ring in that time. Stats be darned.

[Dustin]

All Pennington ever did was dink and dunk... ! He could only throw 25 yards! You contradict yourself all the time.

 

So what's your argument then? I'm only using your logic. 

 

System+receivers+conditions determine the most accurate. I don't beleive this notion. You do. This is your logic.

[Dustin]

I think you are my new favorite poster. Let me clue you in about some of the posters here. Most think stats are more important than rings mostly because Peyton delivered plenty of stats and one ring and a bevy of one and done's. When he loses a playoff game like this past year, none of it was his fault despite his three TOs leading to 17 points and despite 14 of his 35 points coming from special teams. Somehow Moore's miscue is the complete reason why they lost - one bad play compared to Manning's three and yet Manning is the one with the 19 mil contract and football pedigree. I didn't even know who Moore was until that play. 

 

OiBU likes to rank on Luck because although his stats were not very good last year, he flat out won games. Made all the plays necessary to win. Colts fans are not used to this. They are used to stats and great regular seasons and then one and done in the playoffs. Luck will deliver big time when it counts - playoff time. In other words, it won't take him six seasons to win a playoff game and I believe he will have at least one ring in that time. Stats be darned.

 

Congrats, your new favorite poster is a guy who think Te'o is going to kill himself because of his girlfriend scandle. Wish you 2 the best.

[jshipp23]

I think you are my new favorite posters. Let me clue you in about some of the posters here. Most think stats are more important than rings mostly because Peyton delivered plenty of stats and one ring and a bevy of one and done's. When he loses a playoff game like this past year, none of it was his fault despite his three TOs leading to 17 points and despite 14 of his 35 points coming from special teams. Somehow Moore's miscue is the complete reason why they lost - one bad play compared to Manning's three and yet Manning is the one with the 19 mil contract and football pedigree. I didn't even know who Moore was until that play. 

 

OiBU likes to rank on Luck because although his stats were not very good last year, he flat out won games. Made all the plays necessary to win. Colts fans are not used to this. They are used to stats and great regular seasons and then one and done in the playoffs. Luck will deliver big time when it counts - playoff time. In other words, it won't take him six seasons to win a playoff game and I believe he will have at least one ring in that time. Stats be darned.

It's like they live in an alternate universe and don't want to hear the truth...I'm as big a Colts fan as there is, but I'll give other teams and players credit if they deserve it...I also notice many posters like to insult , but when they get it dished back they want to cry and recite rules...I've been insulted plenty on a personal level already which I actually think makes it funner really, but it doesn't affect me and I'm not gonna get threads closed and dish malicious insults back...I don't know, it seems like the old timers here feel entitled and don't want their feathers ruffled.

[amfootball]

Congrats, your new favorite poster is a guy who think Te'o is going to kill himself because of his girlfriend scandle. Wish you 2 the best.

What girlfriend?

[jshipp23]

Congrats, your new favorite poster is a guy who think Te'o is going to kill himself because of his girlfriend scandle. Wish you 2 the best.

I said he could be on a downward spiral because of the media spotlight and the abuse he will receive from other players...And it's not much to do with the GF scandal as it is personal things that will be brought to light he is trying to hide and keep secret in a culture that won't accept it...Just because thats the way things are in the world and I can see this happening doesn't mean this is my view of the subject or I want it to happen...I'm speaking the truth how the world and culture is and that it could happen and the media will instigate his demise as much as they can...Can you wrap your head around that, just cause it is a hot button topic and reality doesn't mean I'm wrong...I hope I'm wrong and I'm a big fan of Teo I just don't want that circus here cause it will be 10 times worse than the Tebow circus...

[amfootball]

It's like they live in an alternate universe and don't want to hear the truth...I'm as big a Colts fan as there is, but I'll give other teams and players credit if they deserve it...I also notice many posters like to insult , but when they get it dished back they want to cry and recite rules...I've been insulted plenty on a personal level already which I actually think makes it funner really, but it doesn't affect me and I'm not gonna get threads closed and dish malicious insults back...I don't know, it seems like the old timers here feel entitled and don't want their feathers ruffled.

Just relax a bit. Most of the posters here are fine. We like to get on each other from time to time but usually agree to disagree. Let the personal stuff go and have fun. It is only football afterall. The real world awaits tomorrow morning...

[jshipp23]

So what's your argument then? I'm only using your logic. 

 

System+receivers+conditions determine the most accurate. I don't beleive this notion. You do. This is your logic.

Your the 1 who said Brady only dinks and dunks, which is completely wrong, there are years he does more than others based on his offensive personnel , but he throws his share of long and intermediate throws I've watched enough of him to know this...Pennington on the other hand only dinked and dunked...Understand???

[amfootball]

And you wonder why people peg you as a Manning hater, here only to stir up trouble...

It was a joke. I mean if you are going to post that you talked to one person in Denver, I have to make fun of it. All of Mile High was in the dumps after that loss and most of the Denver post boards that I read laid some of the blame at Manning's feet.

 

I don't hate Manning but honestly the perceptions of him up here border on insane. You have to at least grant me that.

[Dustin]

Your the 1 who said Brady only dinks and dunks, which is completely wrong, their are years he does more than others but he throws his share of long and intermediate throws I've watched enough of him to know this...Pennington on the other hand only dinked and dunked...Understand???

 

 

Well actual statistics prove your eye test wrong but whatever.

 

They both dinked and dunked. Pennington was better at it in worse conditions+worse receivers. Don't know what's hard to understand about that.

[jshipp23]

Well actual statistics prove your eye test wrong but whatever.

 

They both dinked and dunked. Pennington was better at it in worse conditions+worse receivers. Don't know what's hard to understand about that.

The fact that your trying to compare the two talent, skill, or career wise is borderline insane and I'm done with this comparison it's not worth thinking about.

[Dustin]

The fact that your trying to compare the two talent, skill, or career wise is borderline insane and I'm done with this comparison it's not worth thinking about.

 

I'm not comparing Brady and Pennington career wise. That would be ridiculous. But every single statistic points to Pennington being more accurate. If you just want to ignore those than be my guest.

[amfootball]

I'm not comparing Brady and Pennington career wise. But every single statistic points to Pennington being more accurate. If you just want to ignore those than be my guest.

And yet again why stats don't tell the whole story or even part of it.

[House]

No. He. Was. Not.

I am a Colts fan. I am a Luck fan. He is the only quarterback in last year's draft that I was okay with us moving on from Manning for. I am thrilled that he is the Colts quarterback. But he was not -- WAS NOT -- as good as Matt Ryan or Ben Roethlisberger last season.

And before you come back and say that he was, let me repeat: NO. HE. WAS. NOT.

Any idea the differences in stats last year between Ben and Andrew?

Because I didn't think Ben had a good year at all. Not that, that makes Luck better than Ben as a whole, but I felt their years were easily compatible.

Though maybe I just didn't pay enough attention to the Steelers last year.

[Fx Stryker]

Eh, Idk. Rodgers is setting that bar pretty high for any QB. He's going to be setting Marino-like records, records that won't be touched for decades. Guy is unreal.

 

The only thing that is going to stop Rodgers is the 3 years he missed. Stats/year wise he is behind the curve.

 

On a side note: I think we found the forum kryptonite. :dancing:

[jshipp23]

I'm not comparing Brady ans Pennington career wise. But every single statistic points to Pennington being more accurate. If you just want to ignore those than be my guest.

Last thing, Pennington doesn't count, his career was too short and he only threw short passes..He is a statistical anamoly, he had the least amount of arm strength of any qb ever to start in the NFL so he only threw short passes so of course his completion % will be high...I get ticked when Brady dinks and dunks us to death too, but he is just smart and takes what the defense gives him, but also throws plenty of difficult longer throws too....The best way for me to explain it to you is look up all other great QB's stats playing at Foxboro...It is extremely unkind and hard on QBs...You as a Colts fan after watching it bring Manning to his knees and having to see the ahh shucks shrug and shaking his head time after time after he failed there should understand this...Manning is 1 of the greatest ever and wasn't worth a crap in that stadium, yet Brady was fine and he was fine in Indy too...So you can't use the home field thing either...

[Dustin]

And yet again why stats don't tell the whole story or even part of it.

 

Ok. One has a 66% completion percentage who spent the majority of his career in the wind bowl that was the Meadowlands and was throwing to guys like Laveranues Cole. And the other didn't get past 66% completion percentage until 2007 when he played with one of the greatest receivers ever.

[Superman]

It was a joke. I mean if you are going to post that you talked to one person in Denver, I have to make fun of it. All of Mile High was in the dumps after that loss and most of the Denver post boards that I read laid some of the blame at Manning's feet.

 

I don't hate Manning but honestly the perceptions of him up here border on insane. You have to at least grant me that.

 

How about not trying to speak for other people? You said that Denver fans have a problem with Manning's contract. I was sitting right next to a Denver fan, why wouldn't I get his opinion?

[jshipp23]

Ok. One has a 66% completion percentage who spent the majority of his career in the wind bowl that was the Meadowlands and was throwing to guys like Laveranues Cole. And the other didn't get past 66% completion percentage until 2007 when he played with one of the greatest receiver ever.

What career???

[Dustin]

What career???

 

89 games. More than enough for a fair comparison.

[amfootball]

Ok. One has a 66% completion percentage who spent the majority of his career in the wind bowl that was the Meadowlands and was throwing to guys like Laveranues Cole. And the other didn't get past 66% completion percentage until 2007 when he played with one of the greatest receiver ever.

Like I said

 

How about not trying to speak for other people? You said that Denver fans have a problem with Manning's contract. I was sitting right next to a Denver fan, why wouldn't I get his opinion?

Are you saying the post boards on Denver Post are not fans and their opinions don't count?

[Dustin]

Like I said

 

Good cop out. Nice talking to you.

[amfootball]

89 games. More than enough for a fair comparison.

Good grief...

[amfootball]

Good cop out. Nice talking to you.

I didn't finish my thought and it posted for some reason. Now i forget what it was. lol.

[Superman]

Any idea the differences in stats last year between Ben and Andrew?

Because I didn't think Ben had a good year at all. Not that, that makes Luck better than Ben as a whole, but I felt their years were easily compatible.

Though maybe I just didn't pay enough attention to the Steelers last year.

 

 

Sometimes, perception grows to be greater than reality. The Steelers didn't have a good year, but Ben played well.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

 

Ben had 26 touchdowns, 8 interceptions, 63% completion rate, 3265 yards, 13 starts. His stats weren't off the charts, but he had a pretty good year. His stats were better than Luck's, everywhere but yards. And I'm not that big a fan of his, but he was better than Luck. The things we want Luck to improve at -- ball security and completion percentage -- are the areas where Ben was superior. And the Steelers have a troublesome offensive line as well.

[Superman]

Are you saying the post boards on Denver Post are not fans and their opinions don't count?

 

I'm done. This isn't about Manning.

[amfootball]

I'm done. This isn't about Manning.

I didn't bring him up. Post #68 brought him up and his salary with the Colts.

[House]

Sometimes, perception grows to be greater than reality. The Steelers didn't have a good year, but Ben played well.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

Ben had 26 touchdowns, 8 interceptions, 63% completion rate, 3265 yards, 13 starts. His stats weren't off the charts, but he had a pretty good year. His stats were better than Luck's, everywhere but yards. And I'm not that big a fan of his, but he was better than Luck. The things we want Luck to improve at -- ball security and completion percentage -- are the areas where Ben was superior. And the Steelers have a troublesome offensive line as well.

Thanks for the stats. Yeah I didn't think that Luck had better stats, but I thought they were compatible. Which they pretty much are aside from ball security. There's also the issue of rushing yards and TDs, but I'm sure both men were quite equal in that department as well.

[jshipp23]

89 games. More than enough for a fair comparison.

69 games for Jets, 20 games for Miami..2500 less attempts, Brady has 102 completions over 40 yards while Pennington had 36 and those were probably YAC...You can't win I'm done, time to watch Duck Dynasty-

[Qwiz]

The only thing that is going to stop Rodgers is the 3 years he missed. Stats/year wise he is behind the curve.

On a side note: I think we found the forum kryptonite. :dancing:

yes, finally! Manning/Brady debate pop up? Just say "Rodgers". Griffin/12/Wilson debate? "Rodgers". We can just use his name to end all of these repetitive arguments.

[Dustin]

69 games for Jets, 20 games for Miami..2500 less attempts, Brady has 102 completions over 40 yards while Pennington had 36 and those were probably YAC...You can't win I'm done, time to watch Duck Dynasty-

 

You win.

[Fx Stryker]

yes, finally! Manning/Brady debate pop up? Just say "Rodgers". Griffin/12/Wilson debate? "Rodgers". We can just use his name to end all of these repetitive arguments.

 

I wish it was that simple....

[Yehoodi]

I can assure you that he is delighted and ready to win. Peyton had that game won twice. That INT didn't cost them the game, the two hail Mary 80 yd. TDs did....... :dancing:

 

we can go round and round on the game . . . i am not so sure what you mean by Peyton had the game won twice . . . throughout the 60 min game teams score and give up points and each of the three phases of the team can yeild and gain points . . . surely the first pick was not totally on manning as he pass the ball to the reciever and it was broken up, but at the same time there was a near second fumble by Manning . . .Yes manning did score but yes he has turnovers that turned into points . . . yes the D gave up a late TD and a bomb midway through the game, but a bomb midway through the game happens . . .at the same time the D gave up those points the ST got 14 points and so on  . . . so each part has pluses and minus . . . when want to claim the the offense was not helped by the D giving up points, you must mentioned that the ST helped the offense, had there been no ST TDs, that game very likely doesn't even make it to OT and Baltimore wins in regulation . . .  and there is no "Peyton had the game won" speech . . .

 

As for who gets credit for "security" the victory, we can split a few ways, just becuase someone score late (and opposed to getting one of the earl scores) we can give that person credit, when perhaps we should look at it more evenly throught the game . . . but if you are going to credit the last to have the hand on the light switched with scoring to secure the game, then you have to be honest and look at who on Denver had the ball last before Baltimore score to win in OT . . .  

 

For me all three phases of Denver's team played well and each helped in the victory but also each had some boo boos that hurt the team . . . i dont single out one part to give the credit or the blame

[Jason_]

I am talking about his whole career. He has made more than any player in the history of the NFL. I will try to find the link with the salaries. Brady is nowhere close to him.

 

that's because brady was a 6th round pick and therefore his rookie contract was next to nothing.  he didn't cash in until a few years later. 

 

It's not even close!! Who is making more money now too??? Brady is the ultimate team guy...Manning never turned down $$$ and then he would act frustrated with the players around him cause that's all we could afford. Manning fan, but he gets his $$ first even though he gets all the endorsements and he really doesn't need it..Still ticked he took 20 million knowing he wasn't gonna play the whole season.

 

none of them knew at the start of the season that he would miss the entire season.  And when was the last time you saw a player say "hey, I got hurt...here, take some of this money back" ?

 

Did Elway say "delighted" I must have missed that. They paid him the 19 mil to watch him turn the ball over three times and have the weakened arm cost them the game in the end on the throw across his body. Now they owe him $40 more mil to boot. I can assure you Elway is not delighted...

 

1. you can assure no one of anything about how Elway feels

2. if that were the case, then why would Elway offer that contract to manning in the first place?

 

 

Somehow I'm less than surprised that the 2 of you have become bosom buddies. ;)