The Herd: Luck & LeBron two most valuable pro athletes

[ColtsFanMikeC]

http://www.theherdnow.com/radio/andrew-luck-and-lebron-james-are-the-most-valuable-american-pro-athletes/

 

Starts at about 14:30 :  "There is a difference between great and valuable"

 

"If Brady leaves New England, they got Belichek, Garrapalo and Kraft, they're still viable."

"If Cam Newton left, they still in Carolina have a great owner and a  really good head coach and a terrific defensive roster, Cam is good, but he's not that valuable ... Tom Brady is great, but he's not that valuable.  Aaron Rodgers walks out of the door in Green Bay and they may have big problems, but they've got a really good head coach..... Andrew Luck's got a quirky owner, had the worst GM, a defensive-minded head coach, if he doesn't play this year that's a 2-14 team.  If Brady left New England that's a 9-10 win team in that division, you can argue that they may win 12 games. Great and valuable are two different things."

 

I tend to agree with Cowherd here... I felt the same way with Peyton (there was a thread arguing greatest QB between Brady vs. Peyton recently) -- he played on rosters which would have almost always been losing teams without him, Brady has almost always had a team that could win without him.

 

From what we're seeing in pre-season, I agree with Cowherd -- without Luck, this is not much better than a 2 win team. With Luck, I think we've got a very good shot at taking the AFC South.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://www.theherdnow.com/radio/andrew-luck-and-lebron-james-are-the-most-valuable-american-pro-athletes/

 

Starts at about 14:30 :  "There is a difference between great and valuable"

 

"If Brady leaves New England, they got Belichek, Garrapalo and Kraft, they're still viable."

"If Cam Newton left, they still in Carolina have a great owner and a  really good head coach and a terrific defensive roster, Cam is good, but he's not that valuable ... Tom Brady is great, but he's not that valuable.  Aaron Rodgers walks out of the door in Green Bay and they may have big problems, but they've got a really good head coach..... Andrew Luck's got a quirky owner, had the worst GM, a defensive-minded head coach, if he doesn't play this year that's a 2-14 team.  If Brady left New England that's a 9-10 win team in that division, you can argue that they may win 12 games. Great and valuable are two different things."

 

I tend to agree with Cowherd here... I felt the same way with Peyton (there was a thread arguing greatest QB between Brady vs. Peyton recently) -- he played on rosters which would have almost always been losing teams without him, Brady has almost always had a team that could win without him.

 

From what we're seeing in pre-season, I agree with Cowherd -- without Luck, this is not much better than a 2 win team. With Luck, I think we've got a very good shot at taking the AFC South.

Duh

[ColtsBlitz]

At least someone sees it. Everyone else is like "That team would be good with an O-line" and "They just need to fix their offensive line". Some sports news people need to do their research, honestly. 

[TKnight24]

Not really into Colin anymore. He switches up too much

 

There's days where he does this, praising Luck. Then turns right around the next day and say we're wasting his career, he should leave, etc etc 

[MarquisJ]

9 hours ago, TKnight24 said:

Not really into Colin anymore. He switches up too much

 

There's days where he does this, praising Luck. Then turns right around the next day and say we're wasting his career, he should leave, etc etc 

Well he really likes luck you can tell from his previous podcasts but he just doesnt like what the colts are doing with Andrew which i cant really argue with 

[IndyScribe]

Not surprising. Cleveland without Lebron is a dumpster fire team. Colts would be bad without Luck.

[OffensivelyPC]

12 hours ago, TKnight24 said:

Not really into Colin anymore. He switches up too much

 

There's days where he does this, praising Luck. Then turns right around the next day and say we're wasting his career, he should leave, etc etc 

Well, those two points don't necessarily contradict one another.

[TKnight24]

14 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Well, those two points don't necessarily contradict one another.

 

3 hours ago, MarquisJ said:

Well he really likes luck you can tell from his previous podcasts but he just doesnt like what the colts are doing with Andrew which i cant really argue with 

Well they do when literally in between those segments he had Chris Ballard on the show and heaps praise on Ballard saying he thinks we're heading into better days 

 

 

So how do you head into better days when you want a franchise QB to leave?

 

 

[The Fish]

I find my self highly annoyed with his pontificating and air of "I actually know something" that's deeper than sports, even though he makes really stupid sports takes almost daily. I try to avoid this guy and his opinions keep finding me. At least Skip Bayless makes me laugh..

To say Carolina is in a demonstrably different position with Cam than the Colts are with Luck is umm, not right.. The owners don't play or draft..

Their defense is about two injuries away from being average, in the same way the Colts D is a blue chip LB away from not being a confused mess.

They're in generally same boat, especially if actually winning anything matters. Having a solid supporting cast only helps the teams odds of winning when the Franchise QB is in place. No Cam, no Super Bowl appearance.

 

I could go down the list of every single NFL team that's got one guy who if they get hurt, the team isn't winning the Super Bowl and that includes the Patriots and Tom Brady.

 

[lollygagger8]

18 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

http://www.theherdnow.com/radio/andrew-luck-and-lebron-james-are-the-most-valuable-american-pro-athletes/

Andrew Luck's got a quirky owner, had the worst GM, a defensive-minded head coach, if he doesn't play this year that's a 2-14 team.  If Brady left New England that's a 9-10 win team in that division, you can argue that they may win 12 games. Great and valuable are two different things."

 

With Tolzien leading the way, 

[OffensivelyPC]

12 minutes ago, TKnight24 said:

 

Well they do when literally in between those segments he had Chris Ballard on the show and heaps praise on Ballard saying he thinks we're heading into better days 

 

 

So how do you head into better days when you want a franchise QB to leave?

 

 

Well, the "he should leave part," I missed.  But it could all be true that, before Ballard, we were wasting Luck's career, with Ballard, we're headed in the right direction and in both pre- and post-Ballard's hire, Luck is the most valuable player in football.

[Dingus McGirt]

19 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I find my self highly annoyed with his pontificating and air of "I actually know something" that's deeper than sports, even though he makes really stupid sports takes almost daily. I try to avoid this guy and his opinions keep finding me. At least Skip Bayless makes me laugh..

To say Carolina is in a demonstrably different position with Cam than the Colts are with Luck is umm, not right.. The owners don't play or draft..

Their defense is about two injuries away from being average, in the same way the Colts D is a blue chip LB away from not being a confused mess.

They're in generally same boat, especially if actually winning anything matters. Having a solid supporting cast only helps the teams odds of winning when the Franchise QB is in place. No Cam, no Super Bowl appearance.

 

I could go down the list of every single NFL team that's got one guy who if they get hurt, the team isn't winning the Super Bowl and that includes the Patriots and Tom Brady.

 

Nope.  The Patriots can win it all - without - Brady.

 

[The Fish]

27 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Nope.  The Patriots can win it all - without - Brady.

 

Disagree. 

[TKnight24]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Well, the "he should leave part," I missed.  But it could all be true that, before Ballard, we were wasting Luck's career, with Ballard, we're headed in the right direction and in both pre- and post-Ballard's hire, Luck is the most valuable player in football.

Absolutely we were wasting Andrew before Ballard. Now we gotta wait like 2-3 more years before Ballard gets "his" team so to speak

 

Grigson left a lot to be desired, gonna take time to clean it up

 

Its easy to dirty a room, takes longer time to clean it 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

I find my self highly annoyed with his pontificating and air of "I actually know something" that's deeper than sports, even though he makes really stupid sports takes almost daily. I try to avoid this guy and his opinions keep finding me. At least Skip Bayless makes me laugh..

To say Carolina is in a demonstrably different position with Cam than the Colts are with Luck is umm, not right.. The owners don't play or draft..

Their defense is about two injuries away from being average, in the same way the Colts D is a blue chip LB away from not being a confused mess.

They're in generally same boat, especially if actually winning anything matters. Having a solid supporting cast only helps the teams odds of winning when the Franchise QB is in place. No Cam, no Super Bowl appearance.

 

I could go down the list of every single NFL team that's got one guy who if they get hurt, the team isn't winning the Super Bowl and that includes the Patriots and Tom Brady.

 

 

When the Panthers went to the SB, Cam had a very solid defense and a very solid running game.  He wasn't forced to do everything.  Luck has not had solid defense or an above-average running game throughout his career.  A lot of owners at least have some say in the draft, and they all have very strong power to determine who is in place at head coach and GM.  Irsay hired Grigson, who was almost unarguably the worst GM in football over the past 5 years.

 

"Their defense is about two injuries away from being average" -- well, when Cam went to the SB their defense wasn't injured and they were far above average.  "The Colts D is a blue chip LB away from not being a confused mess" -- we've also had a lot of concern on the DL and in the secondary, your quote is just a nice way to say the Colts' D has pretty much sucked since Luck has been here.

 

The Patriots at least win the AFC East without Brady, hands down.  If Garrapolo was their starting QB all 16 games this year, they likely sweep the AFC East and go into the playoffs with a home game as a division champion.  It is impossible to prove, but I think they'd have a decent shot at winning a SB with Garrapolo.  If the Colts play all 16 without Luck, they win no more than 4 games.

 

 

 

[The Fish]

41 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

When the Panthers went to the SB, Cam had a very solid defense and a very solid running game.  He wasn't forced to do everything.  Luck has not had solid defense or an above-average running game throughout his career.  A lot of owners at least have some say in the draft, and they all have very strong power to determine who is in place at head coach and GM.  Irsay hired Grigson, who was almost unarguably the worst GM in football over the past 5 years.

 

"Their defense is about two injuries away from being average" -- well, when Cam went to the SB their defense wasn't injured and they were far above average.  "The Colts D is a blue chip LB away from not being a confused mess" -- we've also had a lot of concern on the DL and in the secondary, your quote is just a nice way to say the Colts' D has pretty much sucked since Luck has been here.

 

The Patriots at least win the AFC East without Brady, hands down.  If Garrapolo was their starting QB all 16 games this year, they likely sweep the AFC East and go into the playoffs with a home game as a division champion.  It is impossible to prove, but I think they'd have a decent shot at winning a SB with Garrapolo.  If the Colts play all 16 without Luck, they win no more than 4 games.

 

 

 

 

First, why is the greatest QB of all time (according to most) so easily replaced? On what planet is that anything less than a massive question mark, especially when we're penciling in Super Bowl winners? Tom Brady is incredibly valuable. I have no idea what Garrappolo really is (and no one else does either, except goofy Patriots homers who are certain that the next guy is just like the last..)

 

Secondly, I didn't say that Panthers situation was just like the Colts, I just said they're not worlds apart, given Cowherds criteria. Cam is literally the same thing to Panthers chances of winning a Super Bowl as Luck is to the Colts. Both guys give the franchises the potential to do it, but neither are an island.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

52 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

First, why is the greatest QB of all time (according to most) so easily replaced? On what planet is that anything less than a massive question mark, especially when we're penciling in Super Bowl winners? Tom Brady is incredibly valuable. I have no idea what Garrappolo really is (and no one else does either, except goofy Patriots homers who are certain that the next guy is just like the last..)

 

Secondly, I didn't say that Panthers situation was just like the Colts, I just said they're not worlds apart, given Cowherds criteria. Cam is literally the same thing to Panthers chances of winning a Super Bowl as Luck is to the Colts. Both guys give the franchises the potential to do it, but neither are an island.

 

I'm not saying Brady is easily replaced ... I am saying they are still a good team without him.  They went 11-5 with Matt Cassell (never threw a pass in a college game) when Brady was hurt.  They'd go 10-6 at least with Garrapalo at QB (they went 3-1 with him last year when Brady was suspended). 

 

Brady is great, like Cowherd said.  However, he is also surrounded by greatness from the ownership down through the coaching staff and roster.  Without him, the Pats may not be superbowl favorites, but they still make the playoffs and they win their division.  With Luck, we have a strong shot at winning or contending in the AFC South.  Without Luck, we have zero chance of succeeding.  Without Brady, the Pats are still a solid team and franchise.

 

Cowherd's point about Cam is that when he went to the SB, he had a great team around him.  Luck has not had an above average defense or running game since he's been in the NFL.  He wills this team to victory time and again.  Cam has not had as much responsibility as Luck over the course of his career because he's not been required to literally will his team to victory week in and week out, he's got guys like Luke Kuechly and others who can play a huge role in winning games.  The Colts have simply not surrounded Luck with the same talent as the Panthers have surrounded Cam with.

[chrisfarley]

12 hours ago, IndyScribe said:

Not surprising. Cleveland without Lebron is a dumpster fire team. Colts would be bad without Luck.

Colts ARE bad without Luck.

[AZColt11]

The year the Pats went 11-5 and missed the playoffs was a fluke year.  Who knows how far they would have made it in the playoffs?  Win 10 games and not make it?  That has happened like 30 times by comparison.  The magic number seems to be 11.  But that was only the 2nd time since the 1970's that a team won 11 games and DIDN'T make the playoffs ('85 Broncos and '08 Pats).  Just another lucky bounce for Brady, who seems like he has an angel on his shoulder at all times.