Griffin Says He Would Gladly Sit Behind Manning

[jskinnz]

Uninformed? A nobody QB racks up big numbers in one season against mediocre teams - has an average at best bowl game against another mediocre team and I'm uninformed? LOL! IM'uniformed'O RG3 will be a major flop in the NFL at the QB position!

Still not addressing why you would jump ship if your favorite team, and I assume the Colts are since you post here, decided that he was the best QB for the future?

And uninformed is right. You said yourself that you have not watched other than the bowl game.

And let's not use you as the standard of whether or not a player that you have not heard off him as the standard of whether or not he is a "nobody." Guarantee you NFL people know him. Guarantee that the draft "gurus" know him. He is the 6th rated player on Kiper's board and I think with a high degree of certainty that he will be drafted at no worse than # 2 in April.

[sbtwenty]

If the team deems RGIII to be the right one ala Cam Newton after putting a lot of thought to it, so be it. But, if they deem Luck to be the right choice, going RGIII over Luck just based on RGIII's willingness to sit behind Peyton would not be a wise way to start a new regime as GM. Besides, if a player picked that high in round 1 (say top 5) does not want to play within a year badly and is content to sit behind another QB, no matter who that QB is, would you want him as a QB leading your team in the future? A valid question to ask, IMO. We all did love it when we found out that Manning threw down the gauntlet in 1998 and told Irsay/Polian that he would kick our butts for the next 15 years if we didn't draft him, didn't we? I wouldn't expect anything less from our future franchise QB either.

Aaron Rodgers was never in the same boat as Luck or even RGIII given where he was picked and his leverage was nowhere near, so I don't want to hear Aaron Rodgers comparisons, please.

^ This

[oldunclemark]

What is a "mutual trade option"?

They have them in baseball..

Management can trade you after 2 years (not before and not after) whether you want to go or not.

You can demand to be trade someplace else...(again only at that point) whether they want to lose you or not..

the idea would be that if Luck was sick of sitting.....and if Maning was going strong.....the Colts could trade him and get lots of draft picks.

Because if he has value NOW..imagine the trade value he would have after two years of playing in exhibition games and learning the system.

If Manning is not healthly..aftre 2 years and must retire .Luck re-signs with us after 2 years getting some on Manning's starting QB money

I believe that if Andrew Luck comes to Indy (and I think that's what will happen) it will be under an arrangement like this.

We cant ask him to sit four years...

..but he cant ask to play ahead of Manning and trading Manning (while you may hear it speculated about 6 times a day on ESPN) is NOT an option...

[jskinnz]

But its a good arguement. Things arent certain at this point...

You dont KNOW you can get the same player at 4 that you can get at 2

That's exactly what I'm saying. Teams dont always work together inn the draft so each can get what they want

We dont know what Minnesota and St. Louis will do...

And the idea of Luck signing a contract with a mutual trade option after two years..

may be the only way to get him here. You'll come to my way of thinking on that

Folks dont seem to understand that Andrew can simply say 'no' to us

There's going to have to be some negotiating. Some thinking outside the box.

..a mutual tyrade option after two years..allows us to grab that same 'bounty' of draft choices for Luck

if Manning comes back strong

Stop with the Luck/2 year contract thing. There is no way in this world he will only sign a 2 year contract. You know when you went on and on about Manning playing in the last game of the year until he didn't. Well, that is the exact realization you need to come to with that idea. There is less than ZERO chance of the Colts offering anything less than 4 years.

As for RG3, here is what I would be my house will happen. He will interview with various QB needy teams, and those that are not. He will run at the combine and will throw at his pro day and someone will absolutely fall in love and start to figure where they need to get to in order to be able to draft him. And that will be pick # 2 or # 3 where they will find a willing trading partner.

[hawkeyes]

And uninformed is right. You said yourself that you have not watched other than the bowl game.

Why do I have to actually watch the games vs. seeing the stats and the opponents? RG3 is a nobody and he will be a bust. If he is still kicking out numbers as a QB in 5 years I will eat my hat and yours.

[jskinnz]

Why do I have to actually watch the games vs. seeing the stats and the opponents? RG3 is a nobody and he will be a bust. If he is still kicking out numbers as a QB in 5 years I will eat my hat and yours.

Once again I ask, if the Colts draft him, why would that cause you to cheer for another team?

Saying he is a nobody and he will be a bust are two different things.

And your question of stats v. actually watching him play are very funny. BTW - if you just looked at his stats, wouldn't you assume he was a pretty good player?

Two things

1) answer my first question

2) Give up the rest of your argument because it is really not very good.

[WSO]

Andrew Luck won't have the accuracy in the NFL as he has had in college purely based on teh speed difference between college and the NFL.

Peyton manning sucked in his first year and would have greatly benefitted from tutelage from his future self for one or two years. Luck won't be any better.

RGIII's size is way too small to be an out of pocket passer/ rusher in teh NFL. He will be injured 3-4 games a year in the NFL as a starter. See Michael Vick. He fits Browns.

Kalil goes to Rams.

Andrew Luck is a better prospect coming out of college than Peyton Manning was coming out of college if that helps. In fact he is touted as one of the best 'prospects' ever.

[oldunclemark]

Stop with the Luck/2 year contract thing. There is no way in this world he will only sign a 2 year contract. You know when you went on and on about Manning playing in the last game of the year until he didn't. Well, that is the exact realization you need to come to with that idea. There is less than ZERO chance of the Colts offering anything less than 4 years.

As for RG3, here is what I would be my house will happen. He will interview with various QB needy teams, and those that are not. He will run at the combine and will throw at his pro day and someone will absolutely fall in love and start to figure where they need to get to in order to be able to draft him. And that will be pick # 2 or # 3 where they will find a willing trading partner.

"J'...you keep bringing up my desire for Manning to play but wouldnt we be better off if manning had played because we'd know his condition.?

..We wouldnt be guessing..and as it turns out...he wanted to play...

But back to the issue...

....The RG3 'love scenario' is very possible.... but RG3 is not going ahead of Blackmon..who can be an NFL star next year.

..and to trade the No.2 and hope to get Blackmon...the Rams must be sure that Minnesota or Cleveland wont take him

I know you know that WE assume RG3 would go to Cleveland. Draft geek Mel Kiper only has him as the No. 6 overall prospect.

RG3 is 'Mr Right" but Blackmon is 'Mr. Right now"

and 'J' be cool..about the 2-year trade option...

Its not a 2-year contract..Its a 4-year deal with a 2-year 'out'

Baseball has a ton of them. Aramis Ramirez had one with the Cubs

If neither side wants out..IT IS a 4-year deal...

Bottom line... You tell me. We cant just order Luck to come here..He has leverage...

You are limited in cash you can offer him//.

How do you convince him to come here without a special deal?

[hawkeyes]

And your question of stats v. actually watching him play are very funny. BTW - if you just looked at his stats, wouldn't you assume he was a pretty good player?

No, because I would have to know who he played while getting those stats - DUH! Rack up stats for a year against cake teams and that doesn't mean anything to me, sorry!

[jskinnz]

"J'...you keep bringing up my desire for Manning to play but wouldnt we be better off if manning had played because we'd know his condition.?

..We wouldnt be guessing..and as it turns out...he wanted to play...

But back to the issue...

....The RG3 'love scenario' is very possible.... but RG3 is not going ahead of Blackmon..who can be an NFL star next year.

..and to trade the No.2 and hope to get Blackmon...the Rams must be sure that Minnesota or Cleveland wont take him

I know you know that WE assume RG3 would go to Cleveland. Draft geek Mel Kiper only has him as the No. 6 overall prospect.

RG3 is 'Mr Right" but Blackmon is 'Mr. Right now"

and 'J' be cool..about the 2-year trade option...

Its not a 2-year contract..Its a 4-year deal with a 2-year 'out'

Baseball has a ton of them. Aramis Ramirez had one with the Cubs

If neither side wants out..IT IS a 4-year deal...

Bottom line... You tell me. We cant just order Luck to come here..He has leverage...

You are limited in cash you can offer him//.

How do you convince him to come here without a special deal?

On Manning, the things that people in the know needed to see from him could have seen those things in practice. Can he make all the throws type stuff. It served no purpose to put him out there in a game, especially when it got down to the end and the only thing he could have done was mess up their draft position. The other point is that in all the info about him, you missed several blatantly obvious things that indicated he would not be physically ready to play.

This is not baseball. There is no out clause that Luck could use should he want to bail on Indy. The Colts, nor any NFL team, would never negotiate that into a rookie contract. Never in a million years. Secondly , you dramatically overestimate Luck's leverage. If he is the # 1 pick in the draft, he will get a contract commiserate with that distinction.

On RG3 - if it happens as suspected and teams fall for the guy, he will be the 2nd pick off the board. It matters little about Blackmon as it is a QB driven league. Someone will fall all over themselves to move up to get him.

[jskinnz]

No, because I would have to know who he played while getting those stats - DUH! Rack up stats for a year against cake teams and that doesn't mean anything to me, sorry!

Why are you refusing to answer my very basic question?

[Deano1818]

Jskinnz, there are certain people on this board that like to jabber, and you will never be able to reach them with logic.

In regards to RGIII, i am one of these guys who believe that RGIII will be a fantastic NFL QB.

Luck is clearly a safer pick.

BUT........If i was the GM, and Cleveland offered the 2 first round picks and their 2nd round pick....... And JoeThomas

AND.......peyton was healthy.... I'd make the trade.

[Deano1818]

Not talkin about you olduncle

[Coffeedrinker]

I can understand the concern about him taking hits, but I would really worry about him getting hit to much in the pocket. He has a fairly quick release.

The only problem I see other than durability is the fact that he at some points will pull the ball down a little early, but like I said before, this is the sort of problem that can be tweaked.

I agree except I'm not sure it can be tweaked. Plus he locks on his primary or secondary targets too much and when he does pull down the ball to run, he runs he doesn't keep his eyes downfield looking for the pass until the very last moment.

I just think that RG3 has much more upside than Luck does who, I believe, has reached his reached his ceiling.

Change RG3 to Leaf and Luck to Manning and that is the exact same thing TV scouts were saying before the 1998 draft. Not that I'm comparing RG3 to Leaf because RG3 seems much more grounded and mentally stable than Leaf.

And my post was sort of taken out of context. If i was building a franchise around a guy than I would without a doubt take Luck. But, for our current situation I think that having RG3 sit for a few years behind Peyton would be beneficial in the long run.

I'm not a fan of the running QB, they just don't seem to have consistent success in the NFL, alway the back to Randall Cunninham. So that explains why I fear Jim Irsay's "new direction for the franchise" may mean a more mobile, spread offense like the Eagles have run for the past few years. Which would mean draft RGIII, let him learn behind Manning for a couple of years while getting him in there for a series or 2 a game during that time.

[Dustin]

I agree except I'm not sure it can be tweaked. Plus he locks on his primary or secondary targets too much and when he does pull down the ball to run, he runs he doesn't keep his eyes downfield looking for the pass until the very last moment.

Change RG3 to Leaf and Luck to Manning and that is the exact same thing TV scouts were saying before the 1998 draft. Not that I'm comparing RG3 to Leaf because RG3 seems much more grounded and mentally stable than Leaf.

I'm not a fan of the running QB, they just don't seem to have consistent success in the NFL, alway the back to Randall Cunninham. So that explains why I fear Jim Irsay's "new direction for the franchise" may mean a more mobile, spread offense like the Eagles have run for the past few years. Which would mean draft RGIII, let him learn behind Manning for a couple of years while getting him in there for a series or 2 a game during that time.

Funny how you mention the Eagles offense and we just hired the Eagles director of college scouting as GM.

That might be the direction were heading in.

[Coffeedrinker]

Funny how you mention the Eagles offense and we just hired the Eagles director of college scouting as GM.

That might be the direction were heading in.

That was why I mentioned the Eagles. Plus Grigson was the Director of Player Personnel for the last two years, he was Director of College Scouting for three years before that.

[Dustin]

That was why I mentioned the Eagles. Plus Grigson was the Director of Player Personnel for the last two years, he was Director of College Scouting for three years before that.

My mistake.

[a06cc]

The only thing we know about both of these players is their faster then Manning on their feet lol. You can't label Robert a bust. Some of you on here did the same with Cam Newton... Look at him, he looked like a HOF Qb against us lol. Both Luck and RG3 haven't took a snap in the NFL. If your in the NFL your a great player regardless of what we think. We're on the outside looking in.

[ConBro]

Just saw on ESPN First Take where RG3 would asked if he would be comfortable sitting behind Peyton Manning for a while if drafted by Indianapolis. He said he would do it gladly because of his respect and admiration for Manning and that he didn't want to be the guy that sent Peyton packing. He also said Manning should be allowed to play as long as he wants in Indy.

Sounds like a more humble guy and someone who is more willing to sit and learn than Andrew Luck to me.

Can you post a link to show me an arrogant Andrew Luck who has adamantly stated that he is not willing to sit under Manning? For some reason, all I seem to find is a kid who says that "whatever happens, I'm sure it'll be for the best". Thanks!

[ConBro]

His exact words following the Fiesta Bowl, when asked about the prospect of sitting behind Peyton Manning:

I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread, oldunclemark. Some people aren't open-minded to this prospect, however.

RGIII isn't just saying the right things, but I would wager he's out to prove his legitimacy at the combine and Pro Days.

Hey Doogan-- Luck said more than just "such is life"... he also said "I'm sure it would be great." DOn't try to show only the negatives of things all the time.

[super8todd]

This forum is a joke. RG3 over Luck? LOL, good luck with that. RG3 is a bust, you can bet the farm on that!

[Tony Sullivan]

I like his background, he's a military brat through and through. Born in Japan and both parents are in the Army.

[ConBro]

This forum is a joke. RG3 over Luck? LOL, good luck with that. RG3 is a bust, you can bet the farm on that!

I agree with your post AND your signature!

[oldunclemark]

The only thing we know about both of these players is their faster then Manning on their feet lol. You can't label Robert a bust. Some of you on here did the same with Cam Newton... Look at him, he looked like a HOF Qb against us lol. Both Luck and RG3 haven't took a snap in the NFL. If your in the NFL your a great player regardless of what we think. We're on the outside looking in.

well said

[jskinnz]

This forum is a joke. RG3 over Luck? LOL, good luck with that. RG3 is a bust, you can bet the farm on that!

If this place is such a joke, why bother even posting here?

[oldunclemark]

On Manning, the things that people in the know needed to see from him could have seen those things in practice. Can he make all the throws type stuff. It served no purpose to put him out there in a game, especially when it got down to the end and the only thing he could have done was mess up their draft position. The other point is that in all the info about him, you missed several blatantly obvious things that indicated he would not be physically ready to play.

This is not baseball. There is no out clause that Luck could use should he want to bail on Indy. The Colts, nor any NFL team, would never negotiate that into a rookie contract. Never in a million years. Secondly , you dramatically overestimate Luck's leverage. If he is the # 1 pick in the draft, he will get a contract commiserate with that distinction.

On RG3 - if it happens as suspected and teams fall for the guy, he will be the 2nd pick off the board. It matters little about Blackmon as it is a QB driven league. Someone will fall all over themselves to move up to get him.

Again..you could be right about the 'love' but I'll bet you RG3 is not the second pick....

Everybody knows he's a project...

..and Luck has great leverage..He simply lets it be know that he would be uncomfortable backing up Manning.

..and that Manning is a family friend and that its better for ALL CONCERNED if he go elsewhere

Its like IU recruiting the Gunner Kiel kid at QB when his older brother was there at QB

Unless they're both on board...it wont work..

There has to be a deal..public or private...

[jskinnz]

Again..you could be right about the 'love' but I'll bet you RG3 is not the second pick....

Everybody knows he's a project...

..and Luck has great leverage..He simply lets it be know that he would be uncomfortable backing up Manning.

..and that Manning is a family friend and that its better for ALL CONCERNED if he go elsewhere

Its like IU recruiting the Gunner Kiel kid at QB when his older brother was there at QB

Unless they're both on board...it wont work..

There has to be a deal..public or private...

With all due respect, nothing about that is accurate. Again with all due respect, you don't have a real good idea of how NFL contracts work. There will be no private or public deal. I am done with this thread although I sure we will have the same debate in others.

[oldunclemark]

With all due respect, nothing about that is accurate. Again with all due respect, you don't have a real good idea of how NFL contracts work. There will be no private or public deal. I am done with this thread although I sure we will have the same debate in others.

..and I appreciate the debate but elite pros go in and sit down with the big boss and cut deals.

The 'face of your franchise' isnt treated like a 6th round choice..

Peyton Manning has an unusual deal (the $28 mil payment and the sliding scale salary) .. Andrew Luck will have his sit-down with Mr. Irsay...

...an they'll reach an agreement that Luck shake hands on to come here.

That's how major acquisitions work in the business world..and this is the NFL but its also business

Luck and Peyton have to buy in with their situation in 2012 or there wont be a situation because Luck wont be here.

... the idea that there are no special considerations in pro sports contracts is an unusual statement..from someone with 'a real good idea of how NFL contracts work'

The bottom line is: They'll probably work it out and Luck will back up Manning in this fall..and we'll both be Okay with it

[jskinnz]

..and I appreciate the debate but elite pros go in and sit down with the big boss and cut deals.

The 'face of your franchise' isnt treated like a 6th round choice..

Peyton Manning has an unusual deal (the $28 mil payment and the sliding scale salary) .. Andrew Luck will have his sit-down with Mr. Irsay...

...an they'll reach an agreement that Luck shake hands on to come here.

That's how major acquisitions work in the business world..and this is the NFL but its also business

Luck and Peyton have to buy in with their situation in 2012 or there wont be a situation because Luck wont be here.

... the idea that there are no special considerations in pro sports contracts is an unusual statement..from someone with 'a real good idea of how NFL contracts work'

The bottom line is: They'll probably work it out and Luck will back up Manning in this fall..and we'll both be Okay with it

I lied - not done with this yet.

There will positively be no 2 year contract for Luck. There will be no hand-shake deal from Irsay that will allow Luck to be a free agent after onl two years in the league. That has been one of your premises and there is literally no freaking chance that will happen. When I say you have no idea how NFL contracts work that is what I am talking about.

[oldunclemark]

I lied - not done with this yet.

There will positively be no 2 year contract for Luck. There will be no hand-shake deal from Irsay that will allow Luck to be a free agent after onl two years in the league. That has been one of your premises and there is literally no freaking chance that will happen. When I say you have no idea how NFL contracts work that is what I am talking about.

Welcome back./..

Its not a 2-year contract.. It 4 years with a 2 year 'out'..and its only one of many possibilities....

..and its not free agency..its a trade demand..so the Colts would get something

Brian Kelly..the ND coach ..just got an extension because he has a clause in his contract that he could renegotiate after 2 years..

Luck and Irsay could so something like that to appease him.

There are no absolutes in negotiations .......its the art of the deal

We cannot just order him to play here.....

..so we make the contact fit the situation../Dont you think that's possible..?

[Coffeedrinker]

Welcome back./..

Its not a 2-year contract.. It 4 years with a 2 year 'out'..and its only one of many possibilities....

..and its not free agency..its a trade demand..so the Colts would get something

Brian Kelly..the ND coach ..just got an extension because he has a clause in his contract that he could renegotiate after 2 years..

Luck and Irsay could so something like that to appease him.

There are no absolutes in negotiations .......its the art of the deal

We cannot just order him to play here.....

..so we make the contact fit the situation../Dont you think that's possible..?

No it's not possible. The CBA, especially the new one, has very specific rules about how rookie contracts can be structured.

[oldunclemark]

No it's not possible. The CBA, especially the new one, has very specific rules about how rookie contracts can be structured.

CD.....accepted...

But corporate negotiations often get to a handshake....

Do you really think Irsay and the Lucks (including his dad) are not allowed to discus what Irsay can do for him (in a non-monetary realm) if he comes to Indy.

All big time business deals work that way.

Plus..there must be a discussion between Luck and Manning on reps, practice time and the like.

You agree that MUST happen, right?

[Coffeedrinker]

CD.....accepted...

But corporate negotiations often get to a handshake....

Yes and no. Things get discussed and agreed to via a handshake but everything gets put into the contract.

Do you really think Irsay and the Lucks (including his dad) are not allowed to discus what Irsay can do for him (in a non-monetary realm) if he comes to Indy.

They can discuss many things. But I don't believe they can make a binding arrangement that they will look at Luck's contract in two years.

All big time business deals work that way.

All big time business deals involve contracts and lawyers.

Plus..there must be a discussion between Luck and Manning on reps, practice time and the like.

You agree that MUST happen, right?

I'm sure they can and will discuss things like reps, practice time and the like.

[Jay305]

If we have too I say we take him at 1 Id rather trade down and get picks. RG3 is only behind Luck in terms of the mental parts of the game but I say he throws it better than Luck does. Under Peyton RG3 has the potential to be an absolute monster in the league

[Jay305]

Why would you draft Luck to then give him a 2 year out?

[Jay305]

His exact words following the Fiesta Bowl, when asked about the prospect of sitting behind Peyton Manning:

I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread, oldunclemark. Some people aren't open-minded to this prospect, however.

RGIII isn't just saying the right things, but I would wager he's out to prove his legitimacy at the combine and Pro Days.

That comment by Luck seems very Ryan Leafish also I wonder if Luck turns into a deer in headlights ala Matt Ryan behind an NFL pass rush

[jskinnz]

Welcome back./..

Its not a 2-year contract.. It 4 years with a 2 year 'out'..and its only one of many possibilities....

..and its not free agency..its a trade demand..so the Colts would get something

Brian Kelly..the ND coach ..just got an extension because he has a clause in his contract that he could renegotiate after 2 years..

Luck and Irsay could so something like that to appease him.

There are no absolutes in negotiations .......its the art of the deal

We cannot just order him to play here.....

..so we make the contact fit the situation../Dont you think that's possible..?

You are like an auto accident that I can't divert my eyes off of.

Let me ask you this. As Coffee said there is CBA language that prevents the type of contract you have suggested but let's pretend that it would be OK. Here are the parameters for my question to you.

1) Manning is healthy and $28 million bonus is given

2) Luck is the # 1 pick for Indy

3) Manning plays for at least 3 more years

What is the benefit to the Colts for Luck to have this out clause you suggest? Why would they allow Luck to potentially get out of his deal when they are very near the time that Manning will be done and the time for when they need Luck on the field is at hand? Why on earth would they do that? What is the benefit to them?

Lastly, enough with the baseball or Brian Kelly contracts. Those are not anywhere close to applicable to contracts that drafted NFL rookies sign.

[Jay305]

^This man is correct

[FRW]

Someone point out an article that says Luck said he wouldn't sit behind Manning or he don't think Manning should be able to finish his career here.

Whats that? Nobody has one! Imagine that.

Some of the RG3 lovers will be very disappointed if he wound up here. The guy has never read defenses and that is something that is very critical to the Colts offense. As the old saying goes, "be careful what you wish for".

Everyone talks about the Colts offense. Well the Colts offense right now is the Peyton Manning/Tom Moore offense. Who's to say if we start a rebuild with a different coaching staff we don't go in a different direction that fits better with RG3's skill set. Our "offense" isn't chiseled in stone if Peyton retires. We will never find another QB that can run his offense the way he does. The times they may be a'changing, and our offensive and defensive schemes are probably going to change with them.

[bavanlan]

Peyton Manning has an unusual deal (the $28 mil payment and the sliding scale salary) .. Andrew Luck will have his sit-down with Mr. Irsay...

...an they'll reach an agreement that Luck shake hands on to come here.

That's how major acquisitions work in the business world..and this is the NFL but its also business

I've helped write contracts for 'major acquisitions' in the 'business world'. That's not how they work.