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#81 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:57 PM

I'm pretty sure Buffalo locked down Levitre about a week ago.


That was their other guard, Kevin Ubrik

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#82 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:59 PM

I see people continue to be under the delusion we have a shot at Clady. We need to just remove Clady from the discussion in all these FA threads. There is no way Denver lets Clady go anywhere as long as Manning is under center.


Add Jarius Byrd to that list

#83 Bleedin Blue

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

I'm pretty sure Buffalo locked down Levitre about a week ago.

 

I thought Levitre was an unrestricted free agent.  Either he really loves them cold winters or his agent is a *.  



#84 Indyboy757

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:28 AM

I like most of the posts on this topic, the line will be largly upgraded this offseason as will the DBs but I bring this up every offseason and there is always someone that tells me why we dont need this, but I would love to see us go after a RB. Ballard is a good back and I like him but he cant do it all on his own,I could tell just how gassed he was by the end of the game when he droped the pass out in the flats wide open in the loss last Sunday. Brown is ok but can't stay healthy and I said that at the beginning of the season when everyone was talking about Brown being an every down back and Carter is a joke. A big name WR is not the answer although a tall,big wide out would only help but I think more so a RB would help Luck more then a wide out. Lets take the ball out of Luck's hand a few plays rather then asking him to do it all, Guys like Wilson and RG3 had such a good season but both had one thing in common,the running game. The Skins and seahawks were in the top 5 in rushing yards. We strongly need a back who can get those few short hard tough years in the red zone. we had most of our issues this season in the red zone and I know Luck was a rook and we had serious line issues but lets face it outside of Ballard who else can we trust with the rock? Back in 06 Addai was a rook and Rhodes had some tred left on them tires we won it all which that running game really helped Manning out on our Super Bowl run. I fear if we dont find greater value in the RB position we will not get to the big show until Luck reaches his prime.I dont care if we find a back in the draft or FA, their will be a few guys out there, guys like Steven Jackson, Hillis, Mendenhall, Bush to name a few and the draft you have Bell,Ball,Lacy could be their in the 2nd round I would even take a good hard look at Lattimore in the later rounds due to his injury he will be huge for a team once back to 100%

#85 Shafty138

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:41 AM

A RB?  Just grab Theo Riddick from ND late as a compliment to Ballard/replacement for Brown, and be done with it.  1st Rd. pick should be a lineman or a DB, unless someone ridiculous falls, no 2nd, so not gonna get a "now" impact RB most likely, not that they can't be found late on in the draft every year....and in FA we need more Linemen, resigning some of our own, and quality depth at several positions before RB...



#86 Indyboy757

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:31 AM

Resigning our own will not brake the bank and yes your right we need to take care of the line first but how many linemen do yall think we need, the way I see it we need a G and T maybe a Center although I think Shipley should have a chance at the #1 spot but we dont need 4 or 5 new O-linemen I see no reson why we cant take care of both the line and RB position this offseason as well as other needs, lets not forget our GM has a nack for finding good talented kids that can ball and wont hit us hard in cap space. The one thing I dont want to see us do is not go after anyone in FA and draft a RB in the late rounds like we did with Ballard and yes Ballard was a great pick for us but like I said he needs help, We can joke and say just do this and be down with it and thats cool but im tired of use being a team that puts all our eggs in one basket, key word in my last post better value in the running back position we started the season with Brown, Ballard, Carter and Moore and ended the season with really just Ballard, I dont think we can win the big show without a strong running attack and its not as easy as just picking up a late round RB and we are done. We got lucky with Ballard but running the ball helps a QB most importantly in January and February. Im all for fixing the line but lets not just dwell on the line and take a close evaluation of every position.

#87 Jason_S

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:17 AM

we dont another OLB. hughes can be productive as hes shown this season and we can always draft another one. the tackle and center positons are fine its the guard spot we need help in and ive already mentioned how we can improve our CB and S postion

 

Oh I highly disagree about not needing another OLB.  Hughes showed flashes this year in limited opportunities, but can he sustain that over the entire season?  Hughes also showed some questionable judgement in the several stupid personal fouls he had, again, in limited opportunities on the field.  If he were a full time starter, would the number of stupid personal fouls go up as well?   We don't know the answer to either question.

 

Another point, Mathis missed 4 games last year to injury.  He's only played a full 16 games 3 times in his career.  If either he or Hughes go down, then who else do we have to rush the passer?  We had trouble getting to the QB when either Mathis or Freeny went down this past year, and overall the Colts were ranked 23rd in the league in sacks for the season.  We definitely need help with the pass rush and in a 2-gap 3-4 scheme, the majority of the pass rush is going to come from the OLB position.  Personally I hope we get an OLB in free agence (Barwin, Kruger, Spencer, or maybe Manny Lawson) AND still draft one in the 1st, 3rd or at the very latest 4th round.  I'd love to get Brandon Jenkins in the 3rd because the value would be tremendous.  He has first round talent but will fall due to injury.  I'm doubtful he falls far enough though for us to be able to pick him with he 24th pick in the 3rd round.

 

I also disagree that we're fine at OT.  Not really a fan of Justice.  First, he couldn't stay healthy, and second he wasn't overly efficient even when he was in.  I'd like to keep him for depth but would much rather have someone better at RT, even if that means bringing in a new LT and moving Castonzo over if necessary. 

 

Now I do agree with you that I don't think we're exactly "set" at the WR position but I don't think we need to bring in a high priced FA.  I actually really like the idea proposed by Gavin and a couple of others about taking Dan Buckner from Arizona in one of the later rounds in the draft.  I watched all but 2 Arizona games last season and he's a very good WR.  He doesn't have top speed but he'd be a very good possession receiver.  He's also 6'4" and has very good hands.   Can't really comment one way or another on his route running but he'd be a great change up to guys like Hilton, Avery and Brazill. 


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#88 Balzer40

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:13 AM

Resigning our own will not brake the bank and yes your right we need to take care of the line first but how many linemen do yall think we need, the way I see it we need a G and T maybe a Center although I think Shipley should have a chance at the #1 spot but we dont need 4 or 5 new O-linemen I see no reson why we cant take care of both the line and RB position this offseason as well as other needs, lets not forget our GM has a nack for finding good talented kids that can ball and wont hit us hard in cap space. The one thing I dont want to see us do is not go after anyone in FA and draft a RB in the late rounds like we did with Ballard and yes Ballard was a great pick for us but like I said he needs help, We can joke and say just do this and be down with it and thats cool but im tired of use being a team that puts all our eggs in one basket, key word in my last post better value in the running back position we started the season with Brown, Ballard, Carter and Moore and ended the season with really just Ballard, I dont think we can win the big show without a strong running attack and its not as easy as just picking up a late round RB and we are done. We got lucky with Ballard but running the ball helps a QB most importantly in January and February. Im all for fixing the line but lets not just dwell on the line and take a close evaluation of every position.

 

 

 

The O-line is the most important position we need. Our RB's are fine and like I have said a billion times, it doesn't matter who you have at RB if your line can't block to begin with. I have no doubt that the O-line is going to be priority number one this offseason. Then there will be some holes to fill on the defense. I also have no doubt that WR and RB are going to be the very last positions the Colts even think about. 


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#89 A GM

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:36 AM

Probably the most realistic. We need to look at teams that have great players like that looking for new contracts and that teams salary cap. Neither Long or Clady are leaving their teams.

 

Very strong possibility Long is not re-signed by Dolphins. In fact, I'd lean more in the direction of him not being re-signed. That being said, he's probably the most overrated tackle in the league and will not be worth what he'll ask.


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#90 A GM

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

That was their other guard, Kevin Ubrik

 

 Kraig Urbik, but you are correct


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#91 A GM

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

So if you pay Freeney $14 Million for 12 tackles and 5 sacks...
What would you pay a guy like FA Connor Barwin for his 31 tackles and 3 sacks? $12Million? Good grief!

Clady or Jake Long = Clueless. Agree that Buffalo will keep Byrd & LeVitre.

We HAVE TO get a Pass Rusher & an O-Lineman. Period.
#1 OLB Anthony Spencer or Michael Johnson not a OLB but his rushing and setting the edge YES. Paul Kruger.

#2. OL Jermon Bushrod LT 4.5 sacks 1 Hold 5 false starts.
Louis Vasquez OG No Penalties in 2012 2.5 sacks.
Vollmer RT 1 hold 1 false start 1 xxx 5.5 sacks.

Have to see what is going on with:
LaRon Landry.
Andre Smith Bengals RT gave up 7.5 sacks at RT.

Castonzo 1 hold 1 false start 11 sacks!!!!!
Justice 1 hold 4 false starts 3.5 sacks.
Linkenbk 1 pen 3.5 sacks.
McGlynn 1 false start 4.5 sacks.
Olson 2 holds 1.5 sacks.
Reitz 1 hold 0 sacks.
Satelle 2 pen 5.5 sacks.
Shipley 0 pen 0 sacks.

Jake Long 2 holds 1 FS 7 sacks in 12 games.
Ryan Clady 4 holds 2 FS 1 sack.
Matt Kalil 2 FS 5.5 sacks.
Russell Okung 3 holds 7 FS 2 sacks.
Nate Solder 1 hold 2 FS 3.5 sacks.
Joe Stailey 3 holds 2 FS 7 sacks.
Joe Thomas 4 holds 4 FS 4.5 sacks.

 

 

A few things:

 

1. It's obvious Clady is the best LT in the league and these numbers prove it. 

 

2. As I suspected, Reitz and Shipley graded out well in pass protection. I've been saying they're the only 2 linemen worth a darn all season.

 

3. Castonzo faced some stiff competition this year, and he's only in his 2nd season,  but I was still unimpressed by him overall. He needs to be moved to the right. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the stats. Good stuff


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#92 Smonroe

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

Very strong possibility Long is not re-signed by Dolphins. In fact, I'd lean more in the direction of him not being re-signed. That being said, he's probably the most overrated tackle in the league and will not be worth what he'll ask.

Some say he's a priority sign. Others say he's asking too much and they'll let him move on. There's no denying that his play has diminished over the last couple years. Injury, age, apathy, doesn't matter the reason. You're right, he's not worth what anyone is going to pay him. Not the most overrated OT, just not elite anymore.

No starting LT FA is going to come cheap. I'd rather spend the money on G's and maybe draft a C like Holmes from USC in the 3rd.

I'm going to trust Grigs to make the right decisions, can't fault him so far!

#93 Balzer40

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:02 AM

Some say he's a priority sign. Others say he's asking too much and they'll let him move on. There's no denying that his play has diminished over the last couple years. Injury, age, apathy, doesn't matter the reason. You're right, he's not worth what anyone is going to pay him. Not the most overrated OT, just not elite anymore.

No starting LT FA is going to come cheap. I'd rather spend the money on G's and maybe draft a C like Holmes from USC in the 3rd.

I'm going to trust Grigs to make the right decisions, can't fault him so far!

 

 

 

I would disagree on Long. I have said it all yr.. Long has never been elite, his numbers have never been impressive since he's came into the league. I can't find the stats anymore for some reason they have disappeared, but I looked them up at the beginning of the season and he had averged allowing a sack per game for every game he's played. It was 50 some sacks allowed in 50 some career starts. That is not elite LT stats. There were other numbers that were not elite level. I said earlier in the thread that Long has been living off of reputation and his college credentials and Im sticking with that. Long gets beat consistently in pass protection, he is a good run blocker but his pass protection leaves a lot to be desired. There is a reason why Miami hasn't tried to resign him, teams don't just let franchise LT's walk without a fight. Miami knows this guy is over rated and isn't worth the money. He's only going into his 6th season too and is only 27 yrs. old. If he had slowed down that much at age 27, then teams would be wise to stay far away from him.


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#94 Smonroe

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:08 AM

General FA question: I know it starts on 3/12, but does that mean agents can't "leak" what they expect their clients to get?

I know a team can't even discuss a player not on their roster. But I assume they know a ball park figure for available FAs by then. By then a team has either extended a contract, franchised a guy, or is letting him test the market.

I'm also going to assume Grigs has that info and already has his targeted calls set up. Wouldn't you love to know who's on that short list of players he thinks he has a realistic chance of getting?

#95 Smonroe

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:12 AM

I would disagree on Long. I have said it all yr.. Long has never been elite, his numbers have never been impressive since he's came into the league. I can't find the stats anymore for some reason they have disappeared, but I looked them up at the beginning of the season and he had averged allowed a sack per game for every game he's played. It was 50 some sacks allowed in 50 some career starts. That is not elite LT stats. There were other numbers that were not elite level. I said earlier in the thread that Long has been living off of reputation and his college credentials and Im sticking with that. Long gets beat consistently in pass protection, he is a good run blocker but his pass protection leaves a lot to be desired. There is a reason why Miami hasn't tried to resign him, teams don't just let franchise LT's walk without a fight. Miami knows this guy is over rated and isn't worth the money. He's only going into his 6th season too and is only 27 yrs. old. If he had slowed down that much at age 27, then teams would be wise to stay far away from him.

How about you read my post one more time and look at that word right before 'elite' before you disagree with me? I think we're saying the same thing.

#96 SilentHill

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:12 AM

Andrew is LOADED with Excellent receiving options NOW.

We have 8-9 Spots that Require upgrading ASAP. With an ELITE passer you shouldn`t have to spend top dollat for receivers.
We got rid of that guy.

 

Loaded with WR that have fingers made of butter.


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#97 Balzer40

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

How about you read my post one more time and look at that word right before 'elite' before you disagree with me? I think we're saying the same thing.

 

 

 

I understood what you were saying and that you said he wasn't elite, but you said he wasn't elite "anymore". I'm disagreeing with that and saying he was never elite to begin with. Since he has came into the league he has been average at best especially in pass protection. Im not trying to argue with you specifically, but there seems to be many people on this forum that believe that Long is going to be an upgrade over Castanzo and that is not the case. 

 

Im not saying you have said that, but I'm just trying to dispel the myth that Long is a great LT and we need to sign him. He would be a downgrade IMO from Castanzo.


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#98 Smonroe

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:33 AM

I understood what you were saying and that you said he wasn't elite, but you said he wasn't elite "anymore". I'm disagreeing with that and saying he was never elite to begin with. Since he has came into the league he has been average at best especially in pass protection. Im not trying to argue with you specifically, but there seems to be many people on this forum that believe that Long is going to be an upgrade over Castanzo and that is not the case. 
 
Im not saying you have said that, but I'm just trying to dispel the myth that Long is a great LT and we need to sign him. He would be a downgrade IMO from Castanzo.

Got you, and totally agree. I really don't know if Long was ever 'elite', but he was perceived that way. I'll take your word that it was hype. It really doesn't matter, it's his current value that counts. Someone will overpay for him, I hope it's not us.

#99 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

So if you pay Freeney $14 Million for 12 tackles and 5 sacks...What would you pay a guy like FA Connor Barwin for his 31 tackles and 3 sacks? $12Million? Good grief!Clady or Jake Long = Clueless. Agree that Buffalo will keep Byrd & LeVitre.We HAVE TO get a Pass Rusher & an O-Lineman. Period.#1 OLB Anthony Spencer or Michael Johnson not a OLB but his rushing and setting the edge YES. Paul Kruger.#2. OL Jermon Bushrod LT 4.5 sacks 1 Hold 5 false starts.Louis Vasquez OG No Penalties in 2012 2.5 sacks.Vollmer RT 1 hold 1 false start 1 xxx 5.5 sacks.Have to see what is going on with:LaRon Landry.Andre Smith Bengals RT gave up 7.5 sacks at RT.Castonzo 1 hold 1 false start 11 sacks!!!!!Justice 1 hold 4 false starts 3.5 sacks.Linkenbk 1 pen 3.5 sacks.McGlynn 1 false start 4.5 sacks.Olson 2 holds 1.5 sacks.Reitz 1 hold 0 sacks.Satelle 2 pen 5.5 sacks.Shipley 0 pen 0 sacks.Jake Long 2 holds 1 FS 7 sacks in 12 games.Ryan Clady 4 holds 2 FS 1 sack.Matt Kalil 2 FS 5.5 sacks.Russell Okung 3 holds 7 FS 2 sacks.Nate Solder 1 hold 2 FS 3.5 sacks.Joe Stailey 3 holds 2 FS 7 sacks.Joe Thomas 4 holds 4 FS 4.5 sacks.


Reitz didn't give up a sack? Hmmmm...I'm thinking Luck bailed him out a few times

#100 mvbighead

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

Well we all know Safety isn't the worst. But with $40 million+ to our names, why not Splurge with it??

But we do need a more fearful & dangerous Pass Rush

 

You don't spend much on rookies any more, especially in our current draft position.  Now, I am not against them drafting a safety high, but I think we have bigger long term needs.

 

To me, this team is talent deprived on the offensive line outside of Castanzo and perhaps 1 or 2 others.  Whether we add in the draft or FA is the question, but I'd much rather see us work on either the defensive or offensive line, as either one directly makes a significant impact to both the running and passing games.



#101 #12

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

Castonzo 1 hold 1 false start 11 sacks!!!!!

 

Obviously, he needs to hold more.  If they are only calling a few holding penalties a year per player, you might as well hold every down. 


 



#102 TKnight24

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

You don't spend much on rookies any more, especially in our current draft position. Now, I am not against them drafting a safety high, but I think we have bigger long term needs.

To me, this team is talent deprived on the offensive line outside of Castanzo and perhaps 1 or 2 others. Whether we add in the draft or FA is the question, but I'd much rather see us work on either the defensive or offensive line, as either one directly makes a significant impact to both the running and passing games.

Well everyone knows it all starts up front. But if we do get an oline, we won't need a Defense. Luck & Ballard are gonna run the score up every game haha

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#103 Balzer40

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:15 PM

Well everyone knows it all starts up front. But if we do get an oline, we won't need a Defense. Luck & Ballard are gonna run the score up every game haha

 

 

Is this a joke or do you have Bill Polianitis?


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#104 TKnight24

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:17 PM

Is this a joke or do you have Bill Polianitis?

haha hey that Polianitis Won us a SB.

But seriously, this team is gonna be a powerhouse in about 2 more years. I mean look at it, we almost Won the Division in the 1st Year

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#105 Balzer40

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

haha hey that Polianitis Won us a SB.

But seriously, this team is gonna be a powerhouse in about 2 more years. I mean look at it, we almost Won the Division in the 1st Year

 

 

I agree, but we still need a decent defense. I think its entirely possible to build a pretty good defense as well as have a top offense if we do not waste money on high priced WR's and RB's. 


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#106 TKnight24

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

I agree, but we still need a decent defense. I think its entirely possible to build a pretty good defense as well as have a top offense if we do not waste money on high priced WR's and RB's.

We shouldn't. Just re-sign Brown to go along with Ballard & Carter. Cause honestly if we get an Oline, all of them will excel. You don't need a "Big Name" RB. Look at Alfred Morris & all the RB's NE Has. All you need is an Oline. I think we're fine at RB. As far as WR, we should get Bowe for a low price and then if necessary, next year get a WR for when Reggie leaves us

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#107 Balzer40

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:38 PM

We shouldn't. Just re-sign Brown to go along with Ballard & Carter. Cause honestly if we get an Oline, all of them will excel. You don't need a "Big Name" RB. Look at Alfred Morris & all the RB's NE Has. All you need is an Oline. I think we're fine at RB. As far as WR, we should get Bowe for a low price and then if necessary, next year get a WR for when Reggie leaves us

 

 

I agreed, up till you said we should get Bowe for a low price. No way we could get him for a low price, the going rate is going to be comparable to what Vincent Jackson received last yr.(5 yrs. 55 million). That is way too much and not worth it and honestly, Bowe will probably ask for more. I think we can draft a WR in next yrs. draft to replace Reggie. We still have him for 2 more yrs., and then with Hilton, Brazill, and IMO resigning Avery we'll be fine. Next yr. Hilton, Brazill, and Avery will have more familiarity and rhythm with Luck and the system(if Arians stays) so the results will be even better.


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#108 TKnight24

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

I agreed, up till you said we should get Bowe for a low price. No way we could get him for a low price, the going rate is going to be comparable to what Vincent Jackson received last yr.(5 yrs. 55 million). That is way too much and not worth it and honestly, Bowe will probably ask for more. I think we can draft a WR in next yrs. draft to replace Reggie. We still have him for 2 more yrs., and then with Hilton, Brazill, and IMO resigning Avery we'll be fine. Next yr. Hilton, Brazill, and Avery will have more familiarity and rhythm with Luck and the system(if Arians stays) so the results will be even better.

Curse you Bowe smh. But honestly I have Griff Whalen coming up big next season if he doesn't get injured. So I like our WR core right now. With Reggie as their Mentor, they'll be a good Group

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#109 Balzer40

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

Curse you Bowe smh. But honestly I have Griff Whalen coming up big next season if he doesn't get injured. So I like our WR core right now. With Reggie as their Mentor, they'll be a good Group

 

 

I like Whalen too and think he can have an Austin Collie like impact. I think were fine at WR for at least another yr. or 2.


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#110 mvbighead

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:31 AM

We shouldn't. Just re-sign Brown to go along with Ballard & Carter. Cause honestly if we get an Oline, all of them will excel. You don't need a "Big Name" RB. Look at Alfred Morris & all the RB's NE Has. All you need is an Oline. I think we're fine at RB. As far as WR, we should get Bowe for a low price and then if necessary, next year get a WR for when Reggie leaves us

 

Re-sign Brown?  I have liked the guy, but he is just too injury prone.  Further he has had limited chances here.  Given what we got in Ballard, why wouldn't we just draft another RB to fill in our RB corps?  Either that, or sign a UDFA.

 

RB seems to be one of the few positions in the NFL where draft status doesn't seem to change a whole lot.  The best rookie RB was Martin, who was drafted at the bottom of the 1st round, well after Trent Richardson.  And, had Ballard started all season, he'd be right up there with the both of them.

 

We can easily fill out our RB group with low cost guys.  I highly doubt Brown will be lower cost than a 6th or 7th rounder.



#111 adfisher870

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:49 AM

I think Vollmer and Levitre would be awesome additions to the o-line. Defensively I think Spencer, Byrd and DRC would also be ideal. I'm guessing one or more of these guys will probably get tagged but thats who id like to see.



#112 lollygagger8

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

So if you pay Freeney $14 Million for 12 tackles and 5 sacks...
What would you pay a guy like FA Connor Barwin for his 31 tackles and 3 sacks? $12Million? Good grief!

Clady or Jake Long = Clueless. Agree that Buffalo will keep Byrd & LeVitre.

We HAVE TO get a Pass Rusher & an O-Lineman. Period.
#1 OLB Anthony Spencer or Michael Johnson not a OLB but his rushing and setting the edge YES. Paul Kruger.

#2. OL Jermon Bushrod LT 4.5 sacks 1 Hold 5 false starts.
Louis Vasquez OG No Penalties in 2012 2.5 sacks.
Vollmer RT 1 hold 1 false start 1 xxx 5.5 sacks.

Have to see what is going on with:
LaRon Landry.
Andre Smith Bengals RT gave up 7.5 sacks at RT.

Castonzo 1 hold 1 false start 11 sacks!!!!!
Justice 1 hold 4 false starts 3.5 sacks.
Linkenbk 1 pen 3.5 sacks.
McGlynn 1 false start 4.5 sacks.
Olson 2 holds 1.5 sacks.
Reitz 1 hold 0 sacks.
Satelle 2 pen 5.5 sacks.
Shipley 0 pen 0 sacks.

Jake Long 2 holds 1 FS 7 sacks in 12 games.
Ryan Clady 4 holds 2 FS 1 sack.
Matt Kalil 2 FS 5.5 sacks.
Russell Okung 3 holds 7 FS 2 sacks.
Nate Solder 1 hold 2 FS 3.5 sacks.
Joe Stailey 3 holds 2 FS 7 sacks.
Joe Thomas 4 holds 4 FS 4.5 sacks.

Good info thanks.

I don't understand why we STILL continue to start Satele!!! The proof is right there that Shipley > Satele!






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