Bob Kravitz says cut Austin Collie

[King Colt]

Look no one wants that to happen but the only way to prevent concussions....is to not play football. We don't want the govt to tell us we can't eat a cheeseburger because of the fat and calories. How many families and people have died because of those choices? Millions....and millions more lives have been negatively affected. Fact is every day we make choices....I don't want the govt or anyone else telling me what ones I can make. As long as I'm not hurting/harming someone else I expect to be allowed to persue my dreams. That is why we live in America. Austin and anyone else deserves the right to make a living as HE SEES FIT. If he isn't talented enough so be it or a team doesn't want to pay him in regards of his injury history fine. If they want to have a mandetory time for them to sit out after each concussion fine. If they want to force them to see a psychologist fine...but to deny them the opportunity to work I think is where I differ in my opinion. Like I said....football is no where near as dangerous as many other jobs. Heck your trashman has one of the most injury prone and life threatening jobs in America. Are you going to rush out and tell him tomorrow to quit? I have dreams and desires in my life and you know what....many people and myself included would gladly give up 10-20 years to achieve these things. How many roofers do you know that are 40-50 and almost decrepid from arthritis and back problems...wheel chair bound. They did it to provide for their family. Lots of jobs like that and they pay no where near what the NFL does. Its his and his families to discuss. Our prayers are with him and I will support him no matter what he chooses. I differ I guess in my opinion. I don't need others telling me what to do. I enjoy my freedom to chase my goals and dreams and I don't want others to stand in my way. I don't want a govt or some arbitrary person to deny me what I work hard for. I think we read all these sensational articles that have come out in the last few years and we freak...and over-react. Its the PC thing to do after all. If he is incapable mentally of making the decision for himself then fine...but until then...let him live his life.

Can you tell you boss how you will operate in your job? If one is injured on the job and theinjury prevents him/her from performing they are let go or transferred Right or wrong? Collie woks for the Colts under the rules of the NFL. Its as it should be their decision. This is not about big government. It is how all businesses,large and small around the world operate. Schools if you recall operate the same way, follow rules or they will make whatever adjustments they (not the individual) decide on.

[atapcl]

I believe Irsay gave Ryan Lilja 3 mill and released him. He then signed with KC. Lilja had bad knees he was rehabbing. Collie's injury is more serious. None of us can tell Collie what to do but he should consult his wife so they can make the proper decision. I personally wish Irsay could give Collie an injury settlement like Lilja not because I am an expert but because the information people show on this site and in the news seem to indicate this is a long term problem.

[GoColts8818]

Can you tell you boss how you will operate in your job? If one is injured on the job and theinjury prevents him/her from performing they are let go or transferred Right or wrong? Collie woks for the Colts under the rules of the NFL. Its as it should be their decision. This is not about big government. It is how all businesses,large and small around the world operate. Schools if you recall operate the same way, follow rules or they will make whatever adjustments they (not the individual) decide on.

If you get hurt at work and can come back to work and are cleared by the doctor to return to work business don't fire you or they open themselves up for a major lawsuit. Let's be real about this an NFL team is not your average business like you are trying to make them out to be like.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

and that's fine...

[BrentMc11]

I am really enjoying the debates guys! My name is now Austin Collie, and the Colts neurosurgeons have cleared me to play a GAME that 85% of the male population would 'die' to play for a 'living.' (HMMMM that sounded strange...but true)

I sit out the rest of the preseason....come back and play when it counts. If it is the 1st game great....if it is after the bye week...so be it. I feel he will be cleared again....I wish we knew more about his condition, however. I do want AC to do what is in the best interests of his family.....I will miss number 17 if he leaves the game we love!!!

Keep up the great debates guys! This has been a fun day!!

[HarassedOffTheSite]

If you get hurt at work and can come back to work and are cleared by the doctor to return to work business don't fire you or they open themselves up for a major lawsuit. Let's be real about this an NFL team is not your average business like you are trying to make them out to be like.

A team can cut ANYONE at ANYTIME period. You're right, it isnt an average business.

[BrentMc11]

If you get hurt at work and can come back to work and are cleared by the doctor to return to work business don't fire you or they open themselves up for a major lawsuit. Let's be real about this an NFL team is not your average business like you are trying to make them out to be like.

Some companies do not hesitate to say goodbye to someone coming off of an injury....especially a salaried employee. Companies can say goodbye for a personal call if they want, or if they see Jimmy Johns delivering to the dock or cubicle....or if Joe Jackson is checking Colts Forums on company time....just sayin....

[ColtStrong]

Kravitz gets a lot of crap because he isn't a cheerleader. If the team sucks, he will say they suck. I think its refreshing to be honest. He is honest and his opinions are usually right.

I think you meant to say his opinions are usually in line with your own. Opinions aren't right or wrong, that's why they are called opinions, not fact.

[braveheartcolt]

Look no one wants that to happen but the only way to prevent concussions....is to not play football. We don't want the govt to tell us we can't eat a cheeseburger because of the fat and calories. How many families and people have died because of those choices? Millions....and millions more lives have been negatively affected. Fact is every day we make choices....I don't want the govt or anyone else telling me what ones I can make. As long as I'm not hurting/harming someone else I expect to be allowed to persue my dreams. That is why we live in America. Austin and anyone else deserves the right to make a living as HE SEES FIT. If he isn't talented enough so be it or a team doesn't want to pay him in regards of his injury history fine. If they want to have a mandetory time for them to sit out after each concussion fine. If they want to force them to see a psychologist fine...but to deny them the opportunity to work I think is where I differ in my opinion. Like I said....football is no where near as dangerous as many other jobs. Heck your trashman has one of the most injury prone and life threatening jobs in America. Are you going to rush out and tell him tomorrow to quit? I have dreams and desires in my life and you know what....many people and myself included would gladly give up 10-20 years to achieve these things. How many roofers do you know that are 40-50 and almost decrepid from arthritis and back problems...wheel chair bound. They did it to provide for their family. Lots of jobs like that and they pay no where near what the NFL does. Its his and his families to discuss. Our prayers are with him and I will support him no matter what he chooses. I differ I guess in my opinion. I don't need others telling me what to do. I enjoy my freedom to chase my goals and dreams and I don't want others to stand in my way. I don't want a govt or some arbitrary person to deny me what I work hard for. I think we read all these sensational articles that have come out in the last few years and we freak...and over-react. Its the PC thing to do after all. If he is incapable mentally of making the decision for himself then fine...but until then...let him live his life.

Totally agree with all that. Well said.

Note, the majority of countries (I repeat, the MAJORITY) allow you to chase your dreams. It's not exclusive to the United States of America! Just sayin'.....

[dgambill]

Can you tell you boss how you will operate in your job? If one is injured on the job and theinjury prevents him/her from performing they are let go or transferred Right or wrong? Collie woks for the Colts under the rules of the NFL. Its as it should be their decision. This is not about big government. It is how all businesses,large and small around the world operate. Schools if you recall operate the same way, follow rules or they will make whatever adjustments they (not the individual) decide on.

I agree that the Colts should be allowed to let him go if they choose. I don't agree the NFL should say no team can sign him because he has had a concussion. If he is capable of playing at a high enough level and he wants to play they shouldn't deny him the right. The NFL likely could do as you say but I don't think it would be right. This isn't an issue where he is breaking rules or violating conduct. This is an injury issue. If he is cleared to play he should be allowed to. If he isn't...then he shouldn't. No one is saying he should be allowed on the field if the doctor says he is still under the influence of a concussion. If its just the risk of concussion...then thats HIS decision. If that was the case than the NFL should cease to exist because all the players are at risk. I understand you are trying to protect people...I understand your reasoning...but this isn't just a game...this is a career. For many of these people they have no other real skills to fall back on. Its a risk they deserve the chance to take. I agree you have base lines and testing and I think a program players should have to go through with doctors, psychologist, possibly speaking with those that have suffered, that is all fine...but in the end if he chooses to continue and teams deem him worth having he should be allowed. Again...how many soldiers are allowed to go back after suffering injuries or gun shots....or firemen after they have been burned. We give them that right as long as they can pass the baseline exams/tests...why not Austin.

I am done as I respect your opinion and we just differ. I know you say it because you care about player saftey and I do too....I also care about the players right to choose though.

[dgambill]

Totally agree with all that. Well said.

Note, the majority of countries (I repeat, the MAJORITY) allow you to chase your dreams. It's not exclusive to the United States of America! Just sayin'.....

True...most countries allow their people to come to America....lol...j/k...I'm not saying you can't achieve your dreams elsewhere but for the World as a whole the greatest opportunity for people to achieve that dream is here...of course its not the only lol.

[GoColts8818]

Some companies do not hesitate to say goodbye to someone coming off of an injury....especially a salaried employee. Companies can say goodbye for a personal call if they want, or if they see Jimmy Johns delivering to the dock or cubicle....or if Joe Jackson is checking Colts Forums on company time....just sayin....

Not if it's wrongful termination which for starters doesn't exist for NFL players which is part of why NFL teams is not your average business. Also being fired for not doing your job which is what you described is very different for being fired for being hurt at your job and then being cleared to return to it.

[braveheartcolt]

True...most countries allow their people to come to America....lol...j/k...I'm not saying you can't achieve your dreams elsewhere but for the World as a whole the greatest opportunity for people to achieve that dream is here...of course its not the only lol.

No, I agree. Especially if your parents can afford to put you through college.....and pay for your private medical policy etc! Dreams always come at a cost, no matter where you live!

[GoColts8818]

A team can cut ANYONE at ANYTIME period. You're right, it isnt an average business.

Which is exactly the point I was making.

[BrentMc11]

Not if it's wrongful termination which for starters doesn't exist for NFL players which is part of why NFL teams is not your average business. Also being fired for not doing your job which is what you described is very different for being fired for being hurt at your job and then being cleared to return to it.

I understand what you are saying, but in some companies, there is a zero tolerance policy for injuries. If an employee comes back from injury and fails to meet the job criteria....management will 'find a way' to rid themselves.....I saw it way too many times in 22 years.

I am not arguing...I think we actually are in agreement....

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Which is exactly the point I was making.

I was in agreement. Poorly worded.

[GoColts8818]

I was in agreement. Poorly worded.

Good deal for the record I like your icon Super Luck has a nice ring to it.

[dgambill]

No, I agree. Especially if your parents can afford to put you through college.....and pay for your private medical policy etc! Dreams always come at a cost, no matter where you live!

I put myself through college with scholarships and hard work. Also I got scholarships that I was told no one had even claimed in 3 years because they wouldn't even fill out the paper work and submit a writing sample. People are lazy and don't want to work for things. I'm sure millions would die for the opportunity...and they do trying to get here. I feel blessed being born here...even to a poor family..and with prayer, hard work, and love and support continue to make something out of myself.

As for the medical i'm not sure I understand you. I have never been to the doctor for anything other than yearly check ups but my medical is there if I need it. I would much rather be able to get the help I need than be put on waiting lists or denied because I don't qualify for it. I have friends in England who have terrible time getting in to doctors and specialist especially. One's mom was on a waiting list for 6 months to get into a specialist for her breast cancer. Sadly it had spread too much before she started her treatment and didn't survive. Also one's grandfather needed a hip replacement but since it would only last I think 10 years and his life expectancy was 15 he had to wait 5 years. Sadly by that time his health deteriated from lack of exercise by the time he was age eligible they denied him because his life expectancy was only 4 years so he still didn't get a hip replacement. I know that probably isn't the only way it goes but they said they have terrible time getting to see doctors because of the over-burdened and under paid doctors. Even for their kids. They can't afford to always travel across the country to get to a more accessible clinic. Anyways shoot that rabbit....I'm off subject.

[oldunclemark]

Yes, that's what I said in the other thread. The Colts can't can ban him from the NFL. If they cut him, he will play elsewhere. What would that accomplish?

I would ask him to SERIOIUSLY consider if he should keep playing in the next 2 weeks..

I would offer to pay his entire salary for the length of his contract...

..but if he says he wants to continue..as much as it scares me...he's a grown man..and ..as you say...I cant stop him from playing.

..so play for us...he's very good...

[LUCKyday]

I love Collie he is a very good WR he works hard and loves the game but i think the best thing for him is he needs to hang up the pads and relize if i keep playing it is ganna kill me he has 4 head injuries now and each one will be easier to get then the last who knows how many more are to come.

[Jay Kirk]

Some companies do not hesitate to say goodbye to someone coming off of an injury....especially a salaried employee. Companies can say goodbye for a personal call if they want, or if they see Jimmy Johns delivering to the dock or cubicle....or if Joe Jackson is checking Colts Forums on company time....just sayin....

Most people dont realize how true that statement is Brent,but i hear ya!Bye the way have seen people fired for getting hurt on the job,caused by the produce at any cost mentality of the company that terminated them

[B-B]

Collie, Irsay, Grigson, Pagano, Doctors will decide to do what's right for him, I'd rather keep him and let him play for us than waive him and he plays anyway for someone else anyway, or I'm fine with him retiring and saying thanks to him for the time he's given us

[GoColts8818]

I love Collie he is a very good WR he works hard and loves the game but i think the best thing for him is he needs to hang up the pads and relize if i keep playing it is ganna kill me he has 4 head injuries now and each one will be easier to get then the last who knows how many more are to come.

Here is the thing what makes you so sure you know better than his doctors and his family? I mean no disrespect to you when I say that either. I can totally understand why people are saying hey he needs to quit and frankly it's very refreshing to see people honestly looking out for what is best for a human being than caring about a game. However, none of us are going to have as much information as Collie, his family, doctors, and the Colts are going to have when this decision is made. If they all sign off on him playing then well frankly that's his choice and I'd say all those people are much more qualified to make this call than any of us on this message board. Again I can understand the concern and I am not so sure I disagree with the concern. Franky if it was me in this spot I think I would walk away but it's not. I didn't spend my whole life training to get to this point and I don't feel like I owe it to 52 other guys in a lockerroom to be out there. I don't know Collie's family situation and most importantly I don't know what his doctor is telling him. So I am willing to support whatever decision Collie makes and trust that he's making an adult decision and has weighed all his options like any of us would do if we had to make a life changing decision.

I will say this based on the way Pagano has talked about Collie this week I think the decision has been made and it sounds like it's a question of when Collie comes back not if.

[John Dee]

Nobody reads Kravy...

He is a "shock reporter in INDY" It does not go.

Just go away Bob...

[GoColts8818]

Nobody reads Kravy...

He is a "shock reporter in INDY" It does not go.

Just go away Bob...

He's not even a reporter he's a columnist and that's exactly what columnist are paid to do write strong opinions to spark a reaction. The reporter for the Colts is Mike Chappell and he is very good at presenting the facts so to speak.

[John Dee]

He's not even a reporter he's a columnist and that's exactly what columnist are paid to do write strong opinions to spark a reaction. The reporter for the Colts is Mike Chappell and he is very good at presenting the facts so to speak.

Ya... I "hear it ever day"...

Oh... what the heck..

Let hear John Clayton.... instead of homers.

opps

http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Episodes.aspx?PID=2155

[GoColts8818]

Ya... I "hear it ever day"...

Oh... what the heck..

Let hear John Clayton.... instead of homers.

opps

http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Episodes.aspx?PID=2155

Trust me I am no Kravitz fan I am just not going to pick on him for doing his job. I just don't like his opinion on things and frankly how petty he was with polian turned me off. I mean I know polian was no saint but it got so bad Kravitz couldn't do an interview without whining about how polian wouldn't talk to him. You know what I don't care of kravitzs job was harder because polian wouldn't talk to him go dig up some good sources like jmv has and polian would have talked to him to stay in charge of the information coming out of colts camp. Sorry rant off.

[BrentMc11]

Most people dont realize how true that statement is Brent,but i hear ya!Bye the way have seen people fired for getting hurt on the job,caused by the produce at any cost mentality of the company that terminated them

I tried to 'like.' Just got up and reached my quota? HMMMM Glitch? Wrongful termination.....some do not read the fine print...company rules....can you say loopholes.....all incidents documented saying "failure to follow instructions or company rules?" OK off of my soap box.

[lollygagger8]

If he clears the doctors, then it's his decision to go back on the field. Period. He shouldn't be cut before then though.

I will say though, the TD in the first preseason game that he caught against the Rams, he got up very very slow. I think he was seeing stars then but didn't say anything. Just my opinion.

[lollygagger8]

Man, I hate looking at those pics of Collie KO'd in the Kravitz article.

[BrentMc11]

If he clears the doctors, then it's his decision to go back on the field. Period. He shouldn't be cut before then though.

I will say though, the TD in the first preseason game that he caught against the Rams, he got up very very slow. I think he was seeing stars then but didn't say anything. Just my opinion.

I totally agree with you Lolly. If he is cleared medically to play...and he 100% in...he should play. If the Colts decide he is a risk after his contract...that is the time to say goodbye. I am for Collie and his family making 'today's' decision!!! Emphatically!

[BrentMc11]

Man, I hate looking at those pics of Collie KO'd in the Kravitz article.

They picked the worst ones for the Kravitz effect...to me that in itself is nauseating. Concussions are head injuries....but they did not have to show Austin laying 'lifeless" to make the point. Sensationalism...Yellow journalism...call it what you will....those pics suck!

[braveheartcolt]

They picked the worst ones for the Kravitz effect...to me that in itself is nauseating. Concussions are head injuries....but they did not have to show Austin laying 'lifeless" to make the point. Sensationalism...Yellow journalism...call it what you will....those pics suck!

Shock tactics being used in journalism. Been going on for centuries I'd imagine. It's up there with death and taxes.....

[Chris Wood]

As a medical professional, I actually agree with Kravitz on this. Collie has proven to me without a doubt that he can no longer take a head jarring hit without getting a concussion. So, if he goes back in, it will just be a matter of time before he gets knocked out again. From a health standpoint - Collie has to be aware of that and make the decision that makes sense to him. From an organizational standpoint - we will have to cut another receiver to keep Collie on the roster and hope we have someone to bring back WHEN Collie goes on IR. From a fan standpoint, Collie has been my favorite receiver not named Reggie or Marvin since Brandon Stokely left, but it will make me nervous if he has to catch a ball in traffic or in the middle of the field from now until he retires.

[BrentMc11]

Shock tactics being used in journalism. Been going on for centuries I'd imagine. It's up there with death and taxes.....

I know.....that is why I was using journalistic terms. It is NOT the way journalism is taught in the best journalism schools. Point well taken.

BTW....I am on a roll today...so do not get me started on taxes.....it might lead me to death....

[oldunclemark]

As a medical professional, I actually agree with Kravitz on this. Collie has proven to me without a doubt that he can no longer take a head jarring hit without getting a concussion. So, if he goes back in, it will just be a matter of time before he gets knocked out again. From a health standpoint - Collie has to be aware of that and make the decision that makes sense to him. From an organizational standpoint - we will have to cut another receiver to keep Collie on the roster and hope we have someone to bring back WHEN Collie goes on IR. From a fan standpoint, Collie has been my favorite receiver not named Reggie or Marvin since Brandon Stokely left, but it will make me nervous if he has to catch a ball in traffic or in the middle of the field from now until he retires.

Nothing you say is wrong...but its his choice....and when he plays..he's good....

Do you arbitrarily hurt your team based on the inevitable knock out....when Austin might simply continue playing elsewehre if you cut him.

A boxer fights even thohg he's been knocked out more than once.....its his job of choice...

if I though he'd quit if i cut him.....I'd offer him a job as a receivers coach..or find him a non-playing job in football

My problem would be if his wife came to me and asked me to cut him..what then?

But you cant save people fromthem selves...you can only keep them close or send them away...

[Jay Kirk]

I know.....that is why I was using journalistic terms. It is NOT the way journalism is taught in the best journalism schools. Point well taken.

BTW....I am on a roll today...so do not get me started on taxes.....it might lead me to death....

gtho step back take a deep breath count to ten