3 Unknown Players that have a Good Chance at Making the Roster

[chad72]

Kind of makes you appreciate the intricate layers of being a GM, no? There is way more beneath the surface of roster decisions than we understand in the moment.

No doubt about it. We can only scratch the surface as armchair GMs.

[Coltsfanforlife12]

How do you know that Chapman is going to be a beast? Again, it is all based on perceived potential that has not been seen on the field for a single NFL down whatsoever.

That is fine if we Colts fans want to keep our Chapman hopes alive . But then cut Anunoby and let him develop on the PS. Wait till 6 weeks with Chapman on the PUP list. If Chapman is still not healthy, IR him, and activate Anunoby to the roster. That is a better option than keeping Anunoby on the roster if we are not going to be using him heavily, and then cutting him 6 weeks later, should Chapman be healthy and us assuming he will be top notch right away, which was the option you suggested.

I'd rather Chigbo be upgraded from PS than downgraded by being cut after 6 weeks if we do not have a use for him right away.

Lol like the question of how i know Chapman will be a beast. It is fair but I know because the dude played half a season on a torn ACL and as someone who recently tore their ACL that takes a lot of toughness and strength to do! I just didn't see as much from Chigbo as apparently everyone else did and I don't think he can play meaningful snaps in the NFL let alone come off the bench in case of an injury. I'd rather the PS see if he develops but if they don't think that will happen cut him and let someone else try.

[ztboiler]

No doubt about it. We can only scratch the surface as armchair GMs.

Ya, but surely we'd get a call if Grigson goes on the IR, don't you think? I know his knees are giving him trouble.

[gbrads_rants]

Then cut Chapman, put him on IR, and keep Anunoby on the active roster.

Chapman has shown nothing. Anunoby at least will show us something on the field. The best ability in the NFL is not potential from college, it is availability. That is what businesses like NFL teams operate on. You take emotion out of the equation, Chapman's perceived potential and impact out of the equation, and if Chapman cannot play due to physical reasons, put him on IR and move on with it. No different than Ijalana, IMO.

Yikes...glad you aren't the GM...Chapman was drafted with the understanding he's a project pick...the kid was projected as a 2nd-3rd round pick before he told everyone he was playing the season with one leg....He's strong has good work ethic and a winning pedigree...I'm glad we have somebody from Bama on the team. Their defense is the best in the BCS and will be for many more years....he's a winner...

[Superman]

Yikes...glad you aren't the GM...Chapman was drafted with the understanding he's a project pick...the kid was projected as a 2nd-3rd round pick before he told everyone he was playing the season with one leg....He's strong has good work ethic and a winning pedigree...I'm glad we have somebody from Bama on the team. Their defense is the best in the BCS and will be for many more years....he's a winner...

I like the Chapman pick for the reasons you state, and I bet chad72 likes him too. But at the same time, we could have taken DeQuan Menzie, a cornerback from Alabama who has actually been participating in camp and would probably make the team here. We could have taken guard Adam Gettis, who is pushing for a starting spot with the Redskins, and plays another position we need help at right now. If Chapman doesn't contribute this season, we'll be able to question whether we could have used that pick a little more wisely. I don't think these questions will be answered after one or even two seasons, but it's not like the Chapman pick was necessarily a no-brainer. Our team had a lot of holes going into the draft, some of which were completely unaddressed (like corner and inside linebacker). Maybe we could have done better by the Chapman pick by taking someone that would contribute right away.

[gbrads_rants]

I like the Chapman pick for the reasons you state, and I bet chad72 likes him too. But at the same time, we could have taken DeQuan Menzie, a cornerback from Alabama who has actually been participating in camp and would probably make the team here. We could have taken guard Adam Gettis, who is pushing for a starting spot with the Redskins, and plays another position we need help at right now. If Chapman doesn't contribute this season, we'll be able to question whether we could have used that pick a little more wisely. I don't think these questions will be answered after one or even two seasons, but it's not like the Chapman pick was necessarily a no-brainer. Our team had a lot of holes going into the draft, some of which were completely unaddressed (like corner and inside linebacker). Maybe we could have done better by the Chapman pick by taking someone that would contribute right away.

Grigson had a pretty obvious strategy going into this draft so obvious I almost threw my TV out of the window...the focus was getting Luck and some people for him to throw it to. Defense was not a big priority....when it got into the late rounds he started picking up defensive players with alot of potential...he got Chapman and Fugger....both SEC guys with tremendous upside in the fifth sixth and seventh rounds I dont think the focus is on this year...its more about potential. A good NT can be in the league FOREVER lol a better long term investment than a CB...if we wanted a good CB we couldve gotten Jenkins or dude from Vandy that went to GB....I like what was done and it makes perfect sense...

[braveheartcolt]

How can they be 'unknown players', if you know them? Just askin'....

[chad72]

Yikes...glad you aren't the GM...Chapman was drafted with the understanding he's a project pick...the kid was projected as a 2nd-3rd round pick before he told everyone he was playing the season with one leg....He's strong has good work ethic and a winning pedigree...I'm glad we have somebody from Bama on the team. Their defense is the best in the BCS and will be for many more years....he's a winner...

Winner, winner, chicken dinner...

You know what we do with project picks that cannot play a down due to health, right? That is my angle. Yeah, Ijalana was a project OL pick from a small school too. He was healthy at least till the Bucs game last year, then he went on IR. This year, you know what happened. That is my point.

People get their emotions tied up to a player, and I understand that. But the reason we kept a roster spot for Bob Sanders in the past was because we knew (and so did other teams) what he could do when he was healthy. We have no frame of reference for that with Chapman in the NFL. Unless we can get one, leaning towards PUP and then possibly IR is an option Grigson will look for, IMO.

I thought getting him to IR was only possible if we cut him. If that is not the case, moving him straight to IR after the final cuts, like Superman said, is a possibility (or PUP first, IR next after 6 weeks is the other one).

[krunk]

At one point, almost everyone counted them out, but now after a solid training camp and a good preseason game against the Rams, the chances of making it are in their favor.

Jerell Freeman -- Linebacker

Freeman was a standout in the CFL, cementing himself as one of the leagues best linebackers within only a couple of years. Then he decided to switch over to the NFL and thought he could make any roster. Well, at first, many people thought that he would be on the practice squad at best. Then, training camp came around and I noticed that he was one of the hardest working guys on the field, even though he was playing with the 2nd and 3rd teamers. He has a great motor, and his tackling skills were surprisingly impressive. He doesn't miss too many tackles. This earned him the role of backup going into the Rams game. He was expected to go in the late 2nd quarter or the beginning of the 3rd quarter, but due to an injury to Pat Angerer, he came in early. One of the plays that stood out to me was Isaiah Peed, the Rams' running back, decided to go through a big hole, and Freeman was there waiting for him, and just nailed him. It was a big hit. He had a total of 4 tackles on the day and was very impressive, perhaps the most impressive of all the defensive players. That game alone and his stellar training camp could vault him onto the roster and as a backup. Now, with Angerer injured, he's the starter. He must stand his ground and prove that he's here to stay. Based on his play during training camp and last week, he'll be fine.

Chances of Making the Roster: 80%

DJ Johnson -- Cornerback

This has surprised me the most. WIth the cornerback spot being very thin, I expected a couple of no-names to rise up, but I did not expect one of those guys to be DJ Johnson. Well, I was wrong. Not only was his tackling great against the Rams, but his coverage skills were even better. They almost never threw his way. This performance was a bit surprising because he never did anything that impressive during training camp and was never special in the past. That one performance will not put him on the roster, but right now he's listed as a backup and was listed there last week. Those depth charts are bound to change, but it's a good sign if he's at the top. I rather be at the top, then the bottom. This next performance against the Steelers will really show us if he's here to stay or go.

Chances of Making the Roster: 55%

Chigbo Anunoby -- Nose/Defensive Tackle

He's a bit of a sleeper pick. On many other teams, he probably wouldn't crack the final 53, but the Colts aren't like every other team, clearly. The Colts don't exactly have the greatest nose tackle unit. The reason I think he has a good chance of making the roster is because of the people at the nose tackle spot. Josh Chapman is currently injured and no one really knows when he'll be back. He may not see the field that much this season. The Colts are more worried about his long term health, then his short term. Antonio Johnson and Brandon McKinney are currently the only two guys at the spot, if you don't count Anunoby. Johnson has never played the spot before and is doing a mediocre job at it. McKinney has always been a backup and hasn't shown that he can be a 3 down lineman. It's only good to have 2 people at the NT spot if the starter is very good and reliable when it comes to injuries. Look at the Ravens last year, or the current Packers, they have one great starter with one backup. Now, the Colts only have two guys in Johnson and McKinney and none of them are great. It's good to keep a guy like Chigbo around for depth. Now, he's been playing surprisingly well thus far. He caught some of the coaches eyes in practice and had a nice Rams game, although it was against backups/reserves. He could be worth keeping.

Chances of Making the Roster: 50%

I definitely like Freemans' chances of making the team. He's an impressive player.

I think he could even supplant Kavell Conner in the starting line up. It could be Freeman

and Angerer as the starting MLBs when it's all said and done.

[Balzer40]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner...

You know what we do with project picks that cannot play a down due to health, right? That is my angle. Yeah, Ijalana was a project OL pick from a small school too. He was healthy at least till the Bucs game last year, then he went on IR. This year, you know what happened. That is my point.

People get their emotions tied up to a player, and I understand that. But the reason we kept a roster spot for Bob Sanders in the past was because we knew (and so did other teams) what he could do when he was healthy. We have no frame of reference for that with Chapman in the NFL. Unless we can get one, leaning towards PUP and then possibly IR is an option Grigson will look for, IMO.

I thought getting him to IR was only possible if we cut him. If that is not the case, moving him straight to IR after the final cuts, like Superman said, is a possibility (or PUP first, IR next after 6 weeks is the other one).

I agree Chad. Keep seeing people saying Chapman is our future and that he's going to be a beast or whatever. all that may be true, but the truth is, we have no idea what we have with Chapman. Im a little sceptical of him myself. He's very short for a NT and has reached probably his limit on size and strength. That may not mean anything really but just makes me have questions about him. I also worry that he played almost an entire season on a damaged knee. Reports are, his knee is going to be fine, but that still makes me worry anyway. I do however like Anunoby's potential, he has great size and is also crazy strong, but he has the height and the frame to add more size and strength. I think it hurts him because he played at such a small school. If this guy played in the SEC, he would have been an early 2nd day pick IMO. I would hate to cut that potential loose.

[chad72]

I agree Chad. Keep seeing people saying Chapman is our future and that he's going to be a beast or whatever. all that may be true, but the truth is, we have no idea what we have with Chapman. Im a little sceptical of him myself. He's very short for a NT and has reached probably his limit on size and strength. That may not mean anything really but just makes me have questions about him. I also worry that he played almost an entire season on a damaged knee. Reports are, his knee is going to be fine, but that still makes me worry anyway. I do however like Anunoby's potential, he has great size and is also crazy strong, but he has the height and the frame to add more size and strength. I think it hurts him because he played at such a small school. If this guy played in the SEC, he would have been an early 2nd day pick IMO. I would hate to cut that potential loose.

Agree.

If Anunoby comes and rocks it, I will be the happiest person. I had brought up his name in the NFL draft section a few weeks before the draft as an excellent developmental pick and like his ceiling which is yet to be reached, IMO. If Anunoby cracks the active roster, I just do not see us saving a roster spot for Chapman, if Chapman cannot play. The best he will start with is on PUP, if he is still not cleared to play by the end of pre-season.

Both regimes (Polian and Grigson) have cut and signed players back to IR. Polian cut ties with a 4th round pick in Terrance Taylor, an NT with a wrestling background and we thought was going to be our NT answer but we got to find out in pre-season he was not all that. Grigson cut Ijalana this year before he cleared waivers and then Ijalana was put on IR. Every player is the next greatest thing since sliced bread based on their college reputation till they play more downs in the NFL.

So, just because someone is a draft pick, it does not mean that they are safe from being cut, even if they have been drafted as a project. History has shown us that, with different teams, including ours.

[DoomOf21]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner...

You know what we do with project picks that cannot play a down due to health, right? That is my angle. Yeah, Ijalana was a project OL pick from a small school too. He was healthy at least till the Bucs game last year, then he went on IR. This year, you know what happened. That is my point.

People get their emotions tied up to a player, and I understand that. But the reason we kept a roster spot for Bob Sanders in the past was because we knew (and so did other teams) what he could do when he was healthy. We have no frame of reference for that with Chapman in the NFL. Unless we can get one, leaning towards PUP and then possibly IR is an option Grigson will look for, IMO.

I thought getting him to IR was only possible if we cut him. If that is not the case, moving him straight to IR after the final cuts, like Superman said, is a possibility (or PUP first, IR next after 6 weeks is the other one).

Wasn't is assumed when we drafted him that he might be still recovering from surgery as the season began? If you have that mindset, you don't draft him find out he is still recovering, then waive him and give another team a chance to pick him up even cheaper than fifth round money (I assume). There is still a couple weeks to him to recover, and only then will Colts management have to make the decision (shh I know some cuts come earlier, but my point is there is still some leeway time).

If it is possible to directly place him on IR, when the time comes then let us do so.

We don't know what will happen, we can only wait and see.

[chad72]

Wasn't is assumed when we drafted him that he might be still recovering from surgery as the season began?

I thought the assumption was that he will be cleared to play by the time the season starts, if I remember right. He may not start but he will be cleared to play. That was the risk going in when we drafted him. Maybe I am wrong about that but it will be hard to justify a roster spot for him if he cannot be on the field for us, that is all I am saying.

So, yes, we still have about a few weeks for that but we have to see him on the field at some point to be able to make an assessment.

[krunk]

I thought the assumption was that he will be cleared to play by the time the season starts, if I remember right. He may not start but he will be cleared to play. That was the risk going in when we drafted him. Maybe I am wrong about that but it will be hard to justify a roster spot for him if he cannot be on the field for us, that is all I am saying.

So, yes, we still have about a few weeks for that but we have to see him on the field at some point to be able to make an assessment.

Should have been well before the regular season started! There were some reports on the internet with his agent saying that he would be cleared to play by the time training camp started but that of course has not happened.

At this point I'm not sure when he will be back.

http://www.nfl.com/d...lay-before-camp

http://bleacherrepor...leared-for-camp

[ztboiler]

I thought the assumption was that he will be cleared to play by the time the season starts, if I remember right. He may not start but he will be cleared to play. That was the risk going in when we drafted him. Maybe I am wrong about that but it will be hard to justify a roster spot for him if he cannot be on the field for us, that is all I am saying.

So, yes, we still have about a few weeks for that but we have to see him on the field at some point to be able to make an assessment.

Lot of good ideas floating around the thread because it is an interesting dilemma with multiple contingencies. Coach speak says "Potential gets you fired" - true. The best ability is availability - also true. But, none of that applies directly to the Chapman case in 2012. The calendar says ACL surgery Jan. 2012 - the earliest any GM would expect him back to full health is Jan. 2013. Until OTA's roll around in 2013, his clock doesn't start. Anything before that is found money. Those that say that the show must go on without him are 100% accurate in this business. He was drafted to compete for the job, and he is essentially guaranteed a chance to do that until camp 2013. Grigson and Pagano will build this roster in the interim as if he will never show up for work, though they fully expect that he will.

[jbaron04]

All three are in in my opinion

Chig is going p.s

[DoomOf21]

I thought the assumption was that he will be cleared to play by the time the season starts, if I remember right. He may not start but he will be cleared to play. That was the risk going in when we drafted him.

So, yes, we still have about a few weeks for that but we have to see him on the field at some point to be able to make an assessment.

I just don't think that an attitude of 'You're injured AND a rookie, so too bad we are going to risk losing you to another team (waiver/IR style),' is quite the same as what happened with Ijalana. In Ijalana's case he was injured, but he wasn't a rookie. Colts management had tape of him last year, and they interacted with him at OTA's etc.

Its all just a cute application of game theory: do the Colts gain more or less by keeping Chapman on the active roster, injured but still capable of coming back by week 2 or 10; do they put him on the PUP list and get him back after six (?) weeks; or waive/IR him, possibly losing him to another team.

1. Active roster:

Pro: Can play at any time.

Cons: Occupies a roster spot, Colts might not have a chance to see him in preseason/practice to make the proper judgement call.

2. PUP:

Pro: Can come back after six (?) weeks still earlier than IR if he can contribute. Gives Colts management a chance to evaluate him in practice.

Cons: Colts management have waive someone from the active roster to have Chapman come of PUP. We lose him for six weeks.

3. IR

Pro: We keep that roster spot open for a whole year.

Con: Chapman can't come back no matter what. We may lose him to another team.

[ztboiler]

I just don't think that an attitude of 'You're injured AND a rookie, so too bad we are going to risk losing you to another team (waiver/IR style),' is quite the same as what happened with Ijalana. In Ijalana's case he was injured, but he wasn't a rookie. Colts management had tape of him last year, and they interacted with him at OTA's etc.

Its all just a cute application of game theory: do the Colts gain more or less by keeping Chapman on the active roster, injured but still capable of coming back by week 2 or 10; do they put him on the PUP list and get him back after six (?) weeks; or waive/IR him, possibly losing him to another team.

1. Active roster:

Pro: Can play at any time.

Cons: Occupies a roster spot, Colts might not have a chance to see him in preseason/practice to make the proper judgement call.

2. PUP:

Pro: Can come back after six (?) weeks still earlier than IR if he can contribute. Gives Colts management a chance to evaluate him in practice.

Cons: Colts management have waive someone from the active roster to have Chapman come of PUP. We lose him for six weeks.

3. IR

Pro: We keep that roster spot open for a whole year.

Con: Chapman can't come back no matter what. We may lose him to another team.

Your IR understanding is a little cloudy as described. There is nothing that the Colts will do that will expose Chapman to the open market prior to camp 2013.

[Jason_]

I'd like to see Chigbo get a look at 3-4 DE as well. Might be a stretch, just curious and am intrigued by the body type and raw athletic ability. In reality, I'd guess it is in Chigbo's best interest to go to the P squad. Once the clock starts on the active roster you reduce the opportunities for teams to sign you to the P Squad in the future and you certainly don't want to be a developmental prospect that isn't good enough to make an active roster who has used up all P squad eligibility.

I agree. One of the things that stood out about Chigbo was his athleticism. He seemed to have really good speed for his size. The one guy I kept seeing in the Rams game when I was noticing poor plays from the DL seemed to always be Ricardo Matthews. I'll be watching the DL closely for the rest of the preseason games but I wouldn't be surprised if he was let loose. I'd love to see what Anunoby could do at 3-4 DE on run downs and NT on passing downs.

I agree Chad. Keep seeing people saying Chapman is our future and that he's going to be a beast or whatever. all that may be true, but the truth is, we have no idea what we have with Chapman. Im a little sceptical of him myself. He's very short for a NT and has reached probably his limit on size and strength. That may not mean anything really but just makes me have questions about him. I also worry that he played almost an entire season on a damaged knee. Reports are, his knee is going to be fine, but that still makes me worry anyway. I do however like Anunoby's potential, he has great size and is also crazy strong, but he has the height and the frame to add more size and strength. I think it hurts him because he played at such a small school. If this guy played in the SEC, he would have been an early 2nd day pick IMO. I would hate to cut that potential loose.

Those people saying that about Chapman are simply as confident in his abilities as people, like you, were about how Luck would perform in the NFL. ;)

Then cut Chapman, put him on IR, and keep Anunoby on the active roster.

Chapman has shown nothing. Anunoby at least will show us something on the field. The best ability in the NFL is not potential from college, it is availability. That is what businesses like NFL teams operate on. You take emotion out of the equation, Chapman's perceived potential and impact out of the equation, and if Chapman cannot play due to physical reasons, put him on IR and move on with it. No different than Ijalana, IMO.

A team has to sign Anunoby to the active roster for at least 3 weeks if they claim him off waivers. Unless they are certain he is going to help them right away, there is a good chance a developmental prospect like Anunoby clears waivers, IMO.

Well this was already cleared up, but I think what caused the "uproar" and the "glad you're not the GM comment" was more about you suggesting Chapman being cut than anything else. Now you know that Chapman can be placed directly on IR once final cuts have been made and that may very well be what they do. I personally wouldn't risk cutting him now and hoping he clears waivers because I don't think there's any way he would clear waivers. He was considered a highly touted prospect and only slipped in the draft because of the injury. If it had been Anunoby that had gotten hurt then sure, cut him because he'd have a very good chance of clearing waivers seeing as he came from a small school and was relatively unheard of. Like with the example you gave earlier of Ijalana...had it been Castonzo that had been hurt then I believe they would have kept him on the roster until after final cuts and placed him directly on IR instead of taking the chance that he would clear waivers. A highly touted prospect from a big name school would be far less likely, imo to clear waivers than a no-name prospect from a small school like Ijalana or Anunoby.

[DoomOf21]

Your IR understanding is a little cloudy as described. There is nothing that the Colts will do that will expose Chapman to the open market prior to camp 2013.

How does it work then? I thought a player had to have X amount of years in the NFL before they were eligible to the direct to IR format. Clearly Ijalana and Chapman wouldn't have that experience.

[Superman]

How does it work then? I thought a player had to have X amount of years in the NFL before they were eligible to the direct to IR format. Clearly Ijalana and Chapman wouldn't have that experience.

That only applies during preseason, before final cuts. During the regular season, you can put a player directly on IR without exposing him to waivers, regardless of how many years he has.

[Superman]

Lot of good ideas floating around the thread because it is an interesting dilemma with multiple contingencies. Coach speak says "Potential gets you fired" - true. The best ability is availability - also true. But, none of that applies directly to the Chapman case in 2012. The calendar says ACL surgery Jan. 2012 - the earliest any GM would expect him back to full health is Jan. 2013. Until OTA's roll around in 2013, his clock doesn't start. Anything before that is found money. Those that say that the show must go on without him are 100% accurate in this business. He was drafted to compete for the job, and he is essentially guaranteed a chance to do that until camp 2013. Grigson and Pagano will build this roster in the interim as if he will never show up for work, though they fully expect that he will.

I don't agree with such a rigid guideline for recovery from ACL surgery. There have been plenty of players to recover in less than a year. Welker is a prime example. He had surgery in February, and was back for training camp and didn't miss a game. He actually participated in OTAs in June. And he plays a position that relies on speed and agility. I don't think any player should push it in a recovery from a major injury like that, but it doesn't necessarily take a full year to recover.

Another thing to consider is that, from playing on the knee for a full season, Chapman was able to keep his body and the muscles in his leg healthy, which would help him in his rehab. Less atrophy time.

I'm sure the doctors will take every precaution to make sure he's okay. And even then, there's nothing to guarantee that he won't have setbacks or even a reinjuring of the knee. But I don't think we need to give any significant attention to whether he gets cleared properly or not. He's in good hands with James Andrews and the team doctors.

[chad72]

That only applies during preseason, before final cuts. During the regular season, you can put a player directly on IR without exposing him to waivers, regardless of how many years he has.

Man, this thread has been enlightening on so many levels. We will all be experts on waivers and IR rules by the time this thread is done.

[Jason_]

Your IR understanding is a little cloudy as described. There is nothing that the Colts will do that will expose Chapman to the open market prior to camp 2013.

that's not entirely true. If they want to put him on IR right now they would have to cut him first, wait for him to clear waivers and then add him to IR. this is the case up to, I believe, final cuts are made. once 53 man rosters are set, players can be moved directly from active roster to IR. In the mean time, that is not the case.

also, let's not forget that IR rules changed this year (didn't it? lol) and teams now have the ability to bring one player back off of IR. Granted I dont' think there's any reason to rush into putting Chapman on IR but still, there is that option available as well I believe.

[Superman]

I also worry that he played almost an entire season on a damaged knee.

It's not a degenerative issue. If it were a cartilage injury, it would be different. There are professional athletes that have NO ACLs in one or both knees (DeJuan Blair, Hines Ward, etc.) I had a meniscus tear in my left knee (part of what Chapman had), and I played pickup basketball and football with relatively little pain. I had to ice and wrap the knee to control swelling and whatnot, but it's not a terribly debilitating injury. The recovery for the meniscectomy is about 6-8 weeks, so that's not really affected by the ACL injury. Also, medicine has made tremendous advances in the past 15 years when it comes to dealing with knee injuries. I don't have a crystal ball, but as long as Chapman is diligent in his rehab, he'll be fine.

[DoomOf21]

That only applies during preseason, before final cuts. During the regular season, you can put a player directly on IR without exposing him to waivers, regardless of how many years he has.

Thanks for the clarification! This still means that Chapman would still have to occupy a valuable spot on the 53 man roster, before he gets kicked to IR.

[Superman]

that's not entirely true. If they want to put him on IR right now they would have to cut him first, wait for him to clear waivers and then add him to IR. this is the case up to, I believe, final cuts are made. once 53 man rosters are set, players can be moved directly from active roster to IR. In the mean time, that is not the case.

also, let's not forget that IR rules changed this year (didn't it? lol) and teams now have the ability to bring one player back off of IR. Granted I dont' think there's any reason to rush into putting Chapman on IR but still, there is that option available as well I believe.

As of last week, that IR change had not been ratified by the Players Association. If it is, I believe it's still a preseason designation similar to the PUP list. I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, actually.

The other change pending approval is the extension of the trade deadline.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8255077/nfl-waiting-union-approve-changes-ir-trade-deadline-matters

[Superman]

Thanks for the clarification! This still means that Chapman would still have to occupy a valuable spot on the 53 man roster, before he gets kicked to IR.

Until final cuts, it's a 90 man roster, then a 75 man roster. Once final cuts happen, the rosters go down to 53, and if necessary, Chapman could be placed on IR or PUP and not take up a spot on the 53 man roster. As of right now, Chapman is on PUP, but still occupies a spot on the 90 man roster.

The reason the NFL expanded the offseason roster to 90 is so that teams would have more flexibility outside of the IR and PUP designations. It used to be that players on PUP didn't count against the 90 man roster, but now they do. But that allows a team to not worry so much about a player's designation if they think he might be ready to go in a couple weeks, and don't want to restrict his ability to practice whenever he's cleared. It was anticipated that, of the 90 available players, something less than 90 would actually be able to participate in practice on a daily basis. But you're still better than the 80 that used to be available, and you don't have to fuss with designations as much.

I don't know how much of a functional difference it's made; I think teams still want to milk as much analysis out of their roster spots as possible.

[funktacious2]

By the power of Greyskull! I have the power! Freeman!

caption: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Balzer40]

It's not a degenerative issue. If it were a cartilage injury, it would be different. There are professional athletes that have NO ACLs in one or both knees (DeJuan Blair, Hines Ward, etc.) I had a meniscus tear in my left knee (part of what Chapman had), and I played pickup basketball and football with relatively little pain. I had to ice and wrap the knee to control swelling and whatnot, but it's not a terribly debilitating injury. The recovery for the meniscectomy is about 6-8 weeks, so that's not really affected by the ACL injury. Also, medicine has made tremendous advances in the past 15 years when it comes to dealing with knee injuries. I don't have a crystal ball, but as long as Chapman is diligent in his rehab, he'll be fine.

What worries me about him is his weight. He's not exactly an athletic speciman in tip top condition. He's well over 300 lbs and has to hold up against other 300+ lb men trying to push him around. There is an enormous amount of stress put on his knee's on every single play. Yes, I know there are plenty of other guy's that have came back with no problems from the same injury, but most of them didn't play for almost an entire season on the injury before they had surgery. I hope the guy makes a full recovery and becomes what a lot of people think he will, but until I see him play for a while on that knee against the big boys, I'll remain a little sceptical.

[ztboiler]

I don't agree with such a rigid guideline for recovery from ACL surgery. There have been plenty of players to recover in less than a year. Welker is a prime example. He had surgery in February, and was back for training camp and didn't miss a game. He actually participated in OTAs in June. And he plays a position that relies on speed and agility. I don't think any player should push it in a recovery from a major injury like that, but it doesn't necessarily take a full year to recover.

Another thing to consider is that, from playing on the knee for a full season, Chapman was able to keep his body and the muscles in his leg healthy, which would help him in his rehab. Less atrophy time.

I'm sure the doctors will take every precaution to make sure he's okay. And even then, there's nothing to guarantee that he won't have setbacks or even a reinjuring of the knee. But I don't think we need to give any significant attention to whether he gets cleared properly or not. He's in good hands with James Andrews and the team doctors.

We are splitting hairs on "managing expectations" vs. rigid guidelines. The best case scenarios you refer to are very real, and in Chapman's case even probable. That doesn't change the fact that, if you are a GM and you draft him, you have to do so with an acceptance and even a realistic expectation that he may not play in 2012.

[Superman]

What worries me about him is his weight. He's not exactly an athletic speciman in tip top condition. He's well over 300 lbs and has to hold up against other 300+ lb men trying to push him around. There is an enormous amount of stress put on his knee's on every single play. Yes, I know there are plenty of other guy's that have came back with no problems from the same injury, but most of them didn't play for almost an entire season on the injury before they had surgery. I hope the guy makes a full recovery and becomes what a lot of people think he will, but until I see him play for a while on that knee against the big boys, I'll remain a little sceptical.

I don't think Welker could have played on a torn ACL. Playing defensive tackle takes a lot less agility and lateral movement than playing receiver. I understand what you're saying. The concern is valid. I'm saying that the nature of his knee injury and the position he played made it possible for him to finish the season with a torn ligament in his knee. But even with a torn ligament, he wasn't risking further damage. His size really isn't a factor there, not with the ACL. If it were cartilage, then he could have been tearing his joint up even more.

[Superman]

We are splitting hairs on "managing expectations" vs. rigid guidelines. The best case scenarios you refer to are very real, and in Chapman's case even probable. That doesn't change the fact that, if you are a GM and you draft him, you have to do so with an acceptance and even a realistic expectation that he may not play in 2012.

I don't know whether he'll play this year. I think they drafted him with the expectation that he would be ready, and if not, they could put him on PUP and see how it shakes out. I don't think they're hinging their hopes for the season on him, nor do I think that if he can't play, they'll consider it a wasted pick.

I'm just saying that players come back from ACL injuries in less than a year. Not always, but sometimes. If the doctors sign off on him in less than a year, there are going to be fans who second guess the decision to let him play because "it hasn't been a year yet!" Not saying that's you, but some will say that. Some people even think that we rushed Ijalana back and he shouldn't have been allowed near the field before a full year had passed, just because "it takes a year for an ACL!" That's all I'm saying. It doesn't always take a year.

[ztboiler]

I don't think Welker could have played on a torn ACL. Playing defensive tackle takes a lot less agility and lateral movement than playing receiver. I understand what you're saying. The concern is valid. I'm saying that the nature of his knee injury and the position he played made it possible for him to finish the season with a torn ligament in his knee. But even with a torn ligament, he wasn't risking further damage. His size really isn't a factor there, not with the ACL. If it were cartilage, then he could have been tearing his joint up even more.

Further lessening concerns about his recovery, for me, is that a big guy can play with a brace (as he did for Bama) and lower the potential for re-injury with little impact on performance.

[ztboiler]

I don't know whether he'll play this year. I think they drafted him with the expectation that he would be ready, and if not, they could put him on PUP and see how it shakes out. I don't think they're hinging their hopes for the season on him, nor do I think that if he can't play, they'll consider it a wasted pick.

I'm just saying that players come back from ACL injuries in less than a year. Not always, but sometimes. If the doctors sign off on him in less than a year, there are going to be fans who second guess the decision to let him play because "it hasn't been a year yet!" Not saying that's you, but some will say that. Some people even think that we rushed Ijalana back and he shouldn't have been allowed near the field before a full year had passed, just because "it takes a year for an ACL!" That's all I'm saying. It doesn't always take a year.

Same page....and I'd put a brace on him.

[Superman]

Same page....and I'd put a brace on him.

He'll probably play in a brace for the rest of his career.

[weslo1812]

I just read today that Freeman had an interception during practice today. he seems to contiue making big plays during practice and they say he is learing the defensive system pretty well and that he getting the calls down as well. I really think this Kid may be like a Garry Bracket who went undrafted but ends up becoming a high quality player. Right now hes showing the signs of it but hes still got alot to prove before we get too high on him.

[Gavin]

Chig is going p.s

Yep was thinking the same thing but he should be in

[Gavin]

Watching Justin Anderson like I did today I think he is in serious danger of getting cut, he looked very slow today and dropped down to one knee in the end zone a time or two after doing some jogging from the left side of the end zone to the right, I know he is still recovering but in my opinion it doesnt look good for him, Seth Olsen looked good today as well

[jbaron04]

Watching Justin Anderson like I did today I think he is in serious danger of getting cut, he looked very slow today and dropped down to one knee in the end zone a time or two after doing some jogging from the left side of the end zone to the right, I know he is still recovering but in my opinion it doesnt look good for him, Seth Olsen looked good today as well

If u not in shape we don't need you no part time players