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Why should Drew Brees be the NFL's top paid QB?


oldunclemark

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I understand why the Saints down want to guarantee Drew Brees $20,000,000 a year.

As good a player as he is, he's not the NFL's best QB.

Probably 4th when Peyton Manning is healthy. he's not Rodgers or Tom Brady

He's 33 and that's an issue when it comes to cash guarantees.

I dont know their cap situation....maybe they have tons of room

But I think Brees is 'holding up' the Saints because his ego has gotten too big.

$19,000,000 is a good salary..and if he's as good as he thinks he is..guarantees wont be needed.

Let him hold out.....the Saints seem destined to whine and cry all year anyway

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Sorry..this comment should probably be under 'Football', not Colts Football

I understand why the Saints down want to guarantee Drew Brees $20,000,000 a year.

As good a player as he is, he's not the NFL's best QB.

Probably 4th when Peyton Manning is healthy. he's not Rodgers or Tom Brady

He's 33 and that's an issue when it comes to cash guarantees.

I dont know their cap situation....maybe they have tons of room

But I think Brees is 'holding up' the Saints because his ego has gotten too big.

$19,000,000 is a good salary..and if he's as good as he thinks he is..guarantees wont be needed.

Let him hold out.....the Saints seem destined to whine and cry all year anyway

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In this point at time I'd put him #2 right behind Rodgers. I don't know why there is so much dislike for the guy on this board. Because he beat the Colts in the SB? He just came off one of the best seasons in NFL history. 2 of his best seasons have been in his 30s. The guy should be paid.

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Who the best quarterback is is mostly subjective. Brees' stats certainly put him in the discussion, and hold their own against any other quarterback in the league, now or ever. And he definitely means the world to his team. On top of that, he's played on a below market value contract for the past six years.

Another thing, this being paid more than anyone else isn't necessarily a feature of whether you're the best or not. Eli Manning was the top paid quarterback in the league for a short while, before Brady and Manning did their most recent deals. He's never been considered the best.

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He probably sees himself as the best. He's not a top ten player in my eyes. He's being greedy. What kinda world is it where a man isn't happy making $19M a year? Especially one who isn't worth that.

Whether he's top ten or not, his fair market earning potential supports his contract demands. There's little doubt that, if Brees hadn't been tagged, he would have received offers above and beyond what he's being offered by the Saints, especially after reading that the Titans offered Manning $25 million/year, coming off of major surgery and a missed season. I don't have a problem with anyone trying to maximize their earning potential.

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One - he played at a bargain level of $10 mil. per year for 6 years including the last 3, one in which he won the SB and another in which he broke Marino's passing record. He could have EASILY asked for a pay raise after his SB winning season, and he did not, and played out his contract which is a rarity nowadays.

One could easily argue that he should have been paid at least on par with Brady after the 2009 SB winning season, which would have been $18 mil. per year, the top QB amount at that time. That would mean that he has at least been underpaid for 2 full seasons to the extent of $8 mil. per year which is $16 mil. So, if you factor in the contract of $21 per year for 5 years he is asking minus the $16 mil. because he was underpaid, it would amount to $89 mil. averaging about $18 mil. per year which would retro-actively pay him Brady/Manning money starting with 2010 season.

Given the fact that the last time he played on a franchise tag and paid for it with a shoulder injury, it makes TOTAL sense why he and his agent want to maximize his earning potential given the fact this would be his last long term contract for his career of 5 years or more. Saints should have thought about it before investing in Ben Grubbs and Colston at the same time, it is not Brees' fault.

Besides, Peyton's current contract should not even be in the picture since Peyton did not pit one team against the other in a bidding war, where he could have easily gotten $25 mil. from the Titans. All Peyton did was raise the bar a tad bit in terms of league average though with several restrictive clauses benefiting the Broncos. He did so probably on the advice of Tom Condon to get a deal done with the Broncos that he handpicked, and the same Tom Condon is now negotiating Brees' contract. :)

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No question he is a good, maybe even great QB and there is also no denying he is being greedy; then again 10m to them is like 25c to me. Personally I don't care for him based on the way he has conducted himself throughout the bounty gate story.

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No question he is a good, maybe even great QB and there is also no denying he is being greedy; then again 10m to them is like 25c to me. Personally I don't care for him based on the way he has conducted himself throughout the bounty gate story.

As a Purdue fan/neighbor, he is also very charitable for as greedy as he seems. I don't see it as greed. I see it the same as any other business. If you are doing the work, get paid like everyone else is.

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I think it's extremely telling about what the Saints think of his skills and the fact that they aren't willing to pay him. I said in another thread I think he is a top QB, but he's also had more going for him than any other QB in the league. I think the Saints recognize that.

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I think it's extremely telling about what the Saints think of his skills and the fact that they aren't willing to pay him. I said in another thread I think he is a top QB, but he's also had more going for him than any other QB in the league. I think the Saints recognize that.

More going for him like what?
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I think it's extremely telling about what the Saints think of his skills and the fact that they aren't willing to pay him. I said in another thread I think he is a top QB, but he's also had more going for him than any other QB in the league. I think the Saints recognize that.

If the Saints think there's a problem with his skills, or that he's not worth it to their team, they're nuts. He resurrected that team. And his stats are above reproach. I'm not sure what you mean that he's had more going for him than any other quarterback, and I don't know what else Brees could have done these past six years.

Brees' stats the past 6 years: 68% completions, 4732 yards/season, 34 touchdowns, 16 interceptions, 98.8 rating. Is there any quarterback in the NFL that is measurably better from a statistical standpoint?

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Yes.

I think Brees is as important to the Saints as Manning was to the Colts, or very close to it.

Close to it, they would probably win a couple more games but not many, especially now that they lost Nicks, there rushing attack was alot better then ours last year, I dont know how they will do this year of course.
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I forgot the two most important facts from Brees' six years in New Orleans: 4 playoffs appearances, 1 Super Bowl win.

Before he got there, they hadn't gone to the playoffs since 2000, and had only been 3 times in the past 14 years.

they had only won one playoff game in franchise history before drew came along

it's his turn to be the highest payed player. just the nature of business in the nfl like it or not

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More going for him like what?

Great OL, Excellent Rec. weapons, good running game, good HC, excellent scheme, and plays in a dome. No other QB has that much going for them in the NFL. And he has a fairly opportunistic Def as well....

Like I said, I think the guy is pretty darn good. Winning the games, I don't know, but statistically its my opinion that if you put let's say Matt Schuab in that place, it would be near the level Brees has performed. Statistically.

I'd say that recently, in on the field football matters, the Saints have been extraordinarily intelligent. Drafting guys like Colston, Nicks, signing FA like Sharper/Sproles, I think it's telling that they feel that at 33 going on 34 Brees doesn't deserve #1 QB $. Sure he's been great, and played at a discount. But you don't sign a mammoth contract based on what you've done, it's based on what you will do. I doubt the Saints want to pay $20mill to a 38yr old QB in 4 years.

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Yes.

I think Brees is as important to the Saints as Manning was to the Colts, or very close to it.

I gotta disagree with you on this one. No way do the Saints go from winning a division to being lucky getting 2 wins, if Brees isn't with them next year....and that includes all the other distractions/suspensions that go along with it.

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From what I gathered, they offered him a better deal than both Brady and Manning got, yet he still turned it down. Whether or not that's true, I don't know, but it does make him sound greedy in my book.

I don't like the guy so maybe I'm biased, but it has nothing to do with his team's beating of mine in the SB. When he went on Letterman and gave all that spiel about just wanting his team to get a fair trial, and letting the facts unfold, blah freakin blah, he lost a lot of respect from me.....although what would you expect someone in that position to do any way I guess?

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That's the point right there....

I DONT think his record supports his demand...which is why the issue fo the top player (or top QB) is relevent.

Try to make the arguement going froward for Brees over Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers...two who make less than Drew is holding out for and one (Rrodgers) who is better AND younger.

See what i mean

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I gotta disagree with you on this one. No way do the Saints go from winning a division to being lucky getting 2 wins, if Brees isn't with them next year....and that includes all the other distractions/suspensions that go along with it.

A lot more happened to the Colts last year than just Manning going down. We were plagued with several issues that created a perfect storm. I don't think we should have lost 14 games as it was.

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I gotta disagree with you on this one. No way do the Saints go from winning a division to being lucky getting 2 wins, if Brees isn't with them next year....and that includes all the other distractions/suspensions that go along with it.

Last year's Indy season demonstated Manning's value to an extent that shocked me.

My guess? The Saints would be .500 without Brees

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That's the point right there....

I DONT think his record supports his demand...which is why the issue fo the top player (or top QB) is relevent.

Try to make the arguement going froward for Brees over Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers...two who make less than Drew is holding out for and one (Rrodgers) who is better AND younger.

See what i mean

What in his record doesn't support him being as good as Brady or Rodgers?

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A lot more happened to the Colts last year than just Manning going down. We were plagued with several issues that created a perfect storm. I don't think we should have lost 14 games as it was.

Well yeah it was the perfect storm of having a ball-less, soul-less coach, who lost his GOAT QB. I do not think the team was as bad as the record indicated, but one thing is certain.....even with the so-called 'perfect storm', with a healthy Manning, we still would have won that division. Probably would have went one-and-done, but would have had a very Colt-like year.

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Great OL, Excellent Rec. weapons, good running game, good HC, excellent scheme, and plays in a dome. No other QB has that much going for them in the NFL. And he has a fairly opportunistic Def as well....

There are a few things that stand out to me here.

1) You like to talk about Wayne, Collie and Clark having benefited from Manning. Haven't the Saints receivers benefited from Drew Brees? Outside of Colston -- who was a 7th round pick -- they haven't had any really impressive receivers. Collie's numbers for half the season in 2010 are as good as anyone's the Saints have had in six years. Jacob Tamme's half a season is as good as any of their tight ends have done up until last season with Jimmy Graham. They've had weapons, but nothing spectacular in comparison with other top quarterbacks. Brady has had plenty of options since 2007, Manning has had great options, the Packers had a ridiculous corps last season, and so forth. You're talking like Brees has been surrounded by HOFers.

2) I like Sean Payton and his offensive prowess, but how is he better than Tom Moore, Mike McCarthy, Charlie Weis, etc.?

3) Other quarterbacks have good offensive lines and decent running games, just like the Saints.

4) Manning played in a dome.

You're making it seem like he plays for the '90s Cowboys or Bill Walsh's Niners. There hasn't been an opportunity to see whether Brees is the main reason for the Saints turnaround or if it's Sean Payton. Even this season probably won't really tell, because Payton's paw prints are all over the franchise. But Brees is much more Peyton than he is Eli, much more Aaron Rodgers than Tony Romo.

Like I said, I think the guy is pretty darn good. Winning the games, I don't know, but statistically its my opinion that if you put let's say Matt Schuab in that place, it would be near the level Brees has performed. Statistically.

I don't know what you see that can possibly support that conclusion. I've never, ever, thought of Schaub as being on the same tier as Brees as a quarterback. I have thought of Brees on the same tier as Manning and Brady.

I'd say that recently, in on the field football matters, the Saints have been extraordinarily intelligent. Drafting guys like Colston, Nicks, signing FA like Sharper/Sproles,

... signing Brees...

I'm not trying to take anything away from management, but I think the whole thing would come down like a house of cards if Brees left or was injured. I don't think any well-run team should go 2-14 just because the quarterback gets hurt, but a win differential of 5-6 is about right. Even the Patriots lost 4 wins when Brady was hurt, even though we tout them as the kind of organization that can withstand that kind of loss. The Colts lost 8 wins without Manning. You don't think the Saints are approaching that without Brees? I even think if you replace Brees with a guy like Schaub, they lost 3 or 4 more games. Brees is elite. Schaub is really good. (Just reminded myself of the Texans going 9-7 and winning a playoff game with TJ Yates. I think Schaub had more going for him last season than Brees did, retrospectively.)

I think it's telling that they feel that at 33 going on 34 Brees doesn't deserve #1 QB $. Sure he's been great, and played at a discount. But you don't sign a mammoth contract based on what you've done, it's based on what you will do. I doubt the Saints want to pay $20mill to a 38yr old QB in 4 years.

The contract isn't going to be fully guaranteed, obviously. But the Broncos signed Manning for five years, $19.2 million per, and he's not only 36 but coming off of four neck surgeries and a missed season. He was reportedly offered five years $25 million. Brady will be 36 when his contract expires, and will probably get re-upped with an elite salary. This isn't unprecedented.

Also, the Saints are reportedly offering him #1 quarterback money. They're just not offering him quite what he wants yet.

To me, it's easy: Brees is in Manning/Brady territory, even if he's third on that list. I think he's super important to the team, he's a model citizen, he didn't hold out for an extension or even make a fuss about it, he has no injury issues in the past six years, and he's still in his prime as a quarterback. Without him, they don't contend. To me, it's really a no brainer. He's good for it.

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Well yeah it was the perfect storm of having a ball-less, soul-less coach, who lost his GOAT QB. I do not think the team was as bad as the record indicated, but one thing is certain.....even with the so-called 'perfect storm', with a healthy Manning, we still would have won that division. Probably would have went one-and-done, but would have had a very Colt-like year.

Very possibly. The Texans only won 9 games. And the quarterbacks who "replaced" Manning were so atrocious that it made us look much, much worse than we should have looked with a simply sub-standard quarterback. I think we had a legitimate shot at another 3-4 wins as it stands.

So, without Brees, I don't think the Saints are only a 2 win game. But I think last season was an unmitigated disaster for us that wasn't a true reflection of what the team could be without Manning. But I'm pretty sure the Saints would struggle to win 4 or 5 games without Brees, and that's even without all the distractions they're dealing with now.

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Here's where I come down on the Drew Brees contract situation: HC Sean Payton gone, GM Mickey Loomis gone, Owner Tom Benson just bought the Hornets from the NBA, your backup QB won't take your squad to the Promiseland...Just tighten your franchise fiscal belt & pay Brees what he wants.

If you don't, the Boys in the Bayou are done before the September season even gets off the ground. Suck it up, bite the bullet, & as Larry "The Cable Guy" says "Getter' Done."

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There are a few things that stand out to me here.

1) You like to talk about Wayne, Collie and Clark having benefited from Manning. Haven't the Saints receivers benefited from Drew Brees? Outside of Colston -- who was a 7th round pick -- they haven't had any really impressive receivers. Collie's numbers for half the season in 2010 are as good as anyone's the Saints have had in six years. Jacob Tamme's half a season is as good as any of their tight ends have done up until last season with Jimmy Graham. They've had weapons, but nothing spectacular in comparison with other top quarterbacks. Brady has had plenty of options since 2007, Manning has had great options, the Packers had a ridiculous corps last season, and so forth. You're talking like Brees has been surrounded by HOFers.

Im sure they have to an extent. All Rec. options do. Lance Moore comes to mind in comparision to Collie. And his RB have also been extremely prototypical Rec. backs....

2) I like Sean Payton and his offensive prowess, but how is he better than Tom Moore, Mike McCarthy, Charlie Weis, etc.? I think nearly everyone would consider Payton a better play caller than all of those other options.

3) Other quarterbacks have good offensive lines and decent running games, just like the Saints.

You dont really think the GB OL is comparable to the Saints? Ours? Bradys maybe. And do you think the GB/NE/Colts run game is comparable to NO? Between the backs they have, I think its pretty clear the Saints have the better of the other elite QB teams.

4) Manning played in a dome.

Yea, he sure did. Thats a plus to Peyton as well.

You're making it seem like he plays for the '90s Cowboys or Bill Walsh's Niners. There hasn't been an opportunity to see whether Brees is the main reason for the Saints turnaround or if it's Sean Payton. Even this season probably won't really tell, because Payton's paw prints are all over the franchise. But Brees is much more Peyton than he is Eli, much more Aaron Rodgers than Tony Romo.

I didn't say he wasn't. And you are the one comparing them to those teams. But I think its fairly clear he has more going for him than other QBs. Lets say last 3-4 years

Peyton=Rec core, good scheme, plays in dome.

Brady=Good OL, Rec Cor, HC, Scheme

Rodgers=Rec Cor, HC, Scheme

Brees=OL,Rec Cor, Run Game, HC, Scheme, Dome.

Brees has the best of all of the worlds. Sure you could argue Rodgers has better Rec. But Brees has a better run game, OL. Brady may have a better OL, Brees has a run gam/dome, Peyton could have had a better scheme, Brees had better rec, OL...So on and so forth....

I don't know what you see that can possibly support that conclusion. I've never, ever, thought of Schaub as being on the same tier as Brees as a quarterback. I have thought of Brees on the same tier as Manning and Brady.

Really? His career comp % is right there in line with Brees (64.3-65.9), and when he lead the league in attempts, he also lead the league in comp. and yards. He just cant stay healthy. He's lead a downtrodden team back to respectabiltiy, to an extent.

... signing Brees...

Sure, looks like they might know what they are doing.

I'm not trying to take anything away from management, but I think the whole thing would come down like a house of cards if Brees left or was injured. I don't think any well-run team should go 2-14 just because the quarterback gets hurt, but a win differential of 5-6 is about right. Even the Patriots lost 4 wins when Brady was hurt, even though we tout them as the kind of organization that can withstand that kind of loss. The Colts lost 8 wins without Manning. You don't think the Saints are approaching that without Brees? I even think if you replace Brees with a guy like Schaub, they lost 3 or 4 more games. Brees is elite. Schaub is really good. (Just reminded myself of the Texans going 9-7 and winning a playoff game with TJ Yates. I think Schaub had more going for him last season than Brees did, retrospectively.)

The contract isn't going to be fully guaranteed, obviously. But the Broncos signed Manning for five years, $19.2 million per, and he's not only 36 but coming off of four neck surgeries and a missed season. He was reportedly offered five years $25 million. Brady will be 36 when his contract expires, and will probably get re-upped with an elite salary. This isn't unprecedented.

Your right, its not unprecedented, so why isn't it getting done? Could it be his own orginazation doesnt think he's inline with those players?

Also, the Saints are reportedly offering him #1 quarterback money. They're just not offering him quite what he wants yet.

And they don't seem to think he's worth it.

To me, it's easy: Brees is in Manning/Brady territory, even if he's third on that list. I think he's super important to the team, he's a model citizen, he didn't hold out for an extension or even make a fuss about it, he has no injury issues in the past six years, and he's still in his prime as a quarterback. Without him, they don't contend. To me, it's really a no brainer. He's good for it.

He didnt make a fuss then, but he is now. im not saying he's not important to his team, I've stated that he's darn good. And probably the 4th best QB in the league, but I just think some of the other QBs are on a different level

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In this point at time I'd put him #2 right behind Rodgers. I don't know why there is so much dislike for the guy on this board. Because he beat the Colts in the SB? He just came off one of the best seasons in NFL history. 2 of his best seasons have been in his 30s. The guy should be paid.

In this point at time I'd put him #2 right behind Rodgers. I don't know why there is so much dislike for the guy on this board. Because he beat the Colts in the SB? He just came off one of the best seasons in NFL history. 2 of his best seasons have been in his 30s. The guy should be paid.

I think hes a little arrogant and full of himself.Dont get me wrong Hes a great player but one ring and his age,whatever.He gets more credit than Eli and thats absurd.Hes a ,drama Queen loves the limelight.
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Its pretty simple, if you dont have a good to great Quarterback then your not going anywhere no matter what the coach teaches, Brees needs to be resigned or like I said that team is on par with how bad we were last year but what are you basing Payton being a better play caller the Tom Moore, Charlie Weis? "I think nearly everyone would consider Payton a better play caller than all of those other options.'

Last I checked Charlie Weis has a few Super Bowls under his belt as an offensive Coordinator and Tom Moore was winning Super Bowls as an Offensive Coordinator while Payton was still just a kid besides that was an opinion you gave with no explanation as to why you think Payton is better

Also since when is not paying the man that brought you a Super Bowl smart (at least in this situation) they dont know what they have behind Brees in Chase Daniels and Luke MCcown has no business being in the NFL.

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I think hes a little arrogant and full of himself.Dont get me wrong Hes a great player but one ring and his age,whatever.He gets more credit than Eli and thats absurd.Hes a ,drama Queen loves the limelight.

The same can be said for Rodgers, have you checked out his Discount Double check commercials?
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Great thread! Lots of very smart people making good arguments.

Several thoughts to share....

I don't know why anyone is bringing up the age issue. Brees is 3-years or so younger than Peyton Manning, who got 5-years with Denver.

Because Brees signed with N.O. after his surgery, he was grossly underpaid for the majority of his contract. Now, he'd like to be slightly over-paid for his last contract. He's trying to make up for what he wasn't paid the last 4-5 years.

This is ALL the fault of N.O. They could have signed him to an extension last year, but didn't. And now Brees is playing hardball with them. Good for him. They thought he'd show up and sign his 1-year offer and be on time for training camp.

Nope.

He's now said he's not coming to camp without a long-term deal. He's got the hammer and he's going to swing it. Good for him. It's rare that a player has leverage over a team. So, in this case, I'm on the side of Brees.

And, since I have ZERO sympathy for the Saints, I don't care of Brees is putting the squeeze on them. They'd stick it to him the first chance they'd get if he got hurt. Again, this is his last contract, he's going to get the last nickel. And if the Saints have to find a way to squeeze his contract in, oh well, poor New Orleans.

They mismanaged and mishandled their way into a corner. Let them try to squirm out of this. I'm enjoying this.

Go Drew Go!! Go Drew Go!! :thmup:

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When you throw the ball as much as Brees you are going to get the stats. I mean the guy is like #2, #3, and #4 on the season attempts list. His last season doesn't compare to '84 Marino, '04 Peyton or '07 Tom. Brees is merely benefiting from the vanilla NFL of recent.

If you base on the numbers of Drew's attempts from '84 Marino, '04 Manning, and '07 Brady averages he gets blown out.

If each of the three QB's threw the ball as much as him their numbers would be

Marino - 5,913 yds, 55 TDs, 19 INTs

Peyton - 6,044.4 yds, 65 TDs, 13 INTs.

Tom - 5476 yds, 57 TDs, 9 INTs

Compared to Brees's 5476 yds, 46 TDs, 14 INTs

Rodgers had the best performance of the QBs last season. If he had the same attempts his numbers would be:

6044.4 yds, 59 TDs, 8 INTs.

The top three season for QBs are '04 Peyton, '84 Marino, '11 Rodgers.

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When you throw the ball as much as Brees you are going to get the stats. I mean the guy is like #2, #3, and #4 on the season attempts list. His last season doesn't compare to '84 Marino, '04 Peyton or '07 Tom. Brees is merely benefiting from the vanilla NFL of recent.

If you base on the numbers of Drew's attempts from '84 Marino, '04 Manning, and '07 Brady averages he get's blown out.

If each of the three QB's threw the ball as much as him their numbers would be

Marino - 5,913 yds, 55 TDs, 19 INTs

Peyton - 6,044.4 yds, 65 TDs, 13 INTs.

Tom - 5476 yds, 57 TDs, 9 INTs

Compared to Brees's 5476 yds, 46 TDs, 14 INTs

Rodgers had the best performance of the QBs last season. If he had the same attempts his numbers would be:

6044.4 yds, 59 TDs, 8 INTs.

Since Drew came into the league (Peytons 3rd year)

Brees pass attempts are

2001-27 attempts

2002-526 attempts

2003-356 attempts

2004-400 attempts

2005-500 attempts

2006-554 attempts

2007-652 attempts

2008-635 attempts

2009-514 attempts

2010-658 attempts

Thats 4822 pass attempts during that span

didnt include 2011 cause Peyton didnt play

Peyton Manning

2001-547

2002-591

2003-566

2004-497

2005-453

2006-557

2007-515

2008-555

2009-571

2010-679

5531 pass attempts by Peyton during that same span

Both have benefited but its obvious Peyton has benefited more

So while Drew threw alot more during those two years comparatively Peyton threw for more times over a 10 year span (or in other words from the beginning of Brees career til now excluding this past year

Also you dont get those stats just by throwing a lot of passes

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