Update: Colts signing Michael Pittman Jr to three year contract

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Great points but he is threatening to sit out and not play at all. Tags are strange to gauge.

So was Taylor.  I think this ultimately a negation tactic by Higgins.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Chiefs don't do it, you must be confusing them with the Jaguars, the Chiefs get bargains like Drue Tranquil from Chargers as a LB, but draft and develop really well (Nick Bolton in Round 2, Sneed in Round 4, McDuffie in Round 1 etc., drafted Chris Jones too). This year, they had to re-sign one of their own, like we did with Pittman, with Chris Jones that was a critical component for them winning 2 SBs.

 

Rams definitely do it. Heck, even the 49ers do it and now they have to release guys like Arik Armstead etc.

 

Higgins is caught in the wrong year with a great WR class giving a GM the leeway to use the rookie wage scale.

Jones says the Chiefs do, he got Reggie White money.

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jones says the Chiefs do, he got Reggie White money.

 

Jones is their own, they drafted him and they paid him, not the same as paying someone in FA like the Jaguars. He was a big reason they beat Burrow and the Bengals in the 2022 season AFCCG and a big reason they beat the Bills, Ravens, 49ers etc. in the big playoff games in the 2023 season playoffs. His sack and pressure numbers, justifiably, got him Aaron Donald money, just 2 years later (Donald got 3 years $95 mil. guaranteed after 2021 SB win). A case can be made, without Chris Jones, Mahomes does not go back-to-back.

 

Reggie White never got CJ money, this is why. It is not reasonable to even compare eras because Reggie White was not part of this NFL with ridiculous TV contracts with the NFL and high salary cap that allowed CJ to get paid. Just like Joe Montana would have easily been paid $50 mil. a year and Reggie White would have been paid $35 mil. a year, to keep it in perspective.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Jones is their own, they drafted him and they paid him, not the same as paying someone in FA like the Jaguars. He was a big reason they beat Burrow and the Bengals in the 2022 season AFCCG and a big reason they beat the Bills, Ravens, 49ers etc. in the big playoff games in the 2023 season playoffs. His sack and pressure numbers, justifiably, got him Aaron Donald money, just 2 years later (Donald got 3 years $95 mil. guaranteed after 2021 SB win). A case can be made, without Chris Jones, Mahomes does not go back-to-back.

 

Reggie White never got CJ money. It is not reasonable to even compare eras because Reggie White was not part of this NFL with ridiculous TV contracts with the NFL and high salary cap that allowed CJ to get paid. Just like Joe Montana would have easily been paid $50 mil. a year and Reggie White would have been paid $35 mil. a year, to keep it in perspective.

My point was Reggie White would have got even more today. KC gave Jones the deal of a lifetime was my other point. They are paying Mahomes and Kelce a ton of money and can still afford to do that. We should have 0 problem bringing back Kenny and Grover based on that. People dwell on money way too much in here. You pay to get better. I want a division a Title. 

[csmopar]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Higgins wants out of Cincy, what do you think of him being a Colt as another weapon, Not sure what it would take to get him??

Too much. Would involve picks plus lots of cap space to sign him. I’d rather give the picks and trade up for one of the top WRs in this years class and at least be on the rookie pay grade for 5 years 

24 minutes ago, Shepman said:

Why would you pay those guys top dollars using the tag.  I really like both but I wouldn't pay too dollars for those positions too much $$$.

I wouldn’t. I said as much in my post. I’m just saying it could have been used elsewhere albeit unlikely due to the numbers 

[chad72]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My point was Reggie White would have got even more today. KC gave Jones the deal of a lifetime was my other point. They are paying Mahomes and Kelce a ton of money and can still afford to do that. We should have 0 problem bringing back Kenny and Grover based on that. People dwell on money way too much in here. You pay to get better. I want a division a Title. 

 

That is what I just said, with the current era of TV contracts and high salary cap. To give you the facts, Chris Jones counts just 7.4 million against the 2024 cap with good finagling of the contract, go figure:

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2024/3/10/24096834/chiefs-salary-cap-chris-jones-contract-details-released

 

 

[RollerColt]

16 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That is what I just said, with the current era of TV contracts and high salary cap. To give you the facts, Chris Jones counts just 7.4 million against the 2024 cap with good finagling of the contract, go figure:

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2024/3/10/24096834/chiefs-salary-cap-chris-jones-contract-details-released

 

 

"There's always money in the banana stand". 

 

If we want to pay a player, we basically can. 

[csmopar]

16 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That is what I just said, with the current era of TV contracts and high salary cap. To give you the facts, Chris Jones counts just 7.4 million against the 2024 cap with good finagling of the contract, go figure:

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2024/3/10/24096834/chiefs-salary-cap-chris-jones-contract-details-released

 

 

Yeah but look at 2025, 2026, 34 million and 42 million respectively. That’s huge for a team. Keep in mind, theyre gonna be an aging team so all that cap spread like they’ve been doing, eventually will result in a situation like the colts back in 2012, where we were tight against the cap with mostly aging vets on the decline under contract. 

[chad72]

Just now, csmopar said:

Yeah but look at 2025, 2026, 34 million and 42 million respectively. That’s huge for a team. Keep in mind, they're gonna be an aging team so all that cap spread like they’ve been doing, eventually will result in a situation like the colts back in 2012, where we were tight against the cap with mostly aging vets on the decline under contract. 

 

The magic bullet they have is Mahomes' contract and then Joe Thuney's contract and others that they have reworked constantly to create room. Teams do this all the time but only as a last resort. 

 

They have a LOT of young talent on their D, from defensive ends to corners to safeties to linebackers all drafted in the last 3-4 years. So, they are not going to be an aging team if they continue to draft well. Their biggest issue lately has been offensive drafting or trading (Kadarius Toney, Skyy Moore, Marquez Valdes Scantling...all have been at best serviceable sometimes, and half the times downright terrible). It will become like a Tom Brady situation as the years went on towards his last few years in NE, no wonder he signed with the Bucs that had those offensive weapons and brought Gronk with him.

[smittywerb]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

People dwell on money way too much in here. You pay to get better. I want a division a Title. 

you pay to get better, but you also save where you can to keep acquiring talent.  Why grab a vet wide receiver for +$20million when you have the opportunity to draft one to start for MUCH less.

 

One thing we don’t want to do is blow our cap because we have a QB on a rookie deal.  Kind of have to let the draft supplement FA.  I agree, spend money on needs to get better, but if there are better or comparable options in the draft, I’d rather draft someone and use the money to address another need.  Having $40 million tied up in 2 receivers will limit what we can do.  We’d HAVE to hit in the draft.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

you pay to get better, but you also save where you can to keep acquiring talent.  Why grab a vet wide receiver for +$20million when you have the opportunity to draft one to start for MUCH less.

 

One thing we don’t want to do is blow our cap because we have a QB on a rookie deal.  Kind of have to let the draft supplement FA.  I agree, spend money on needs to get better, but if there are better or comparable options in the draft, I’d rather draft someone and use the money to address another need.  Having $40 million tied up in 2 receivers will limit what we can do.  We’d HAVE to hit in the draft.

 

It is the same concept as buying/renewing all your new appliances at the same time. Chances are, most of them will get old at the same time and cost too much to replace at the same time, so stagger the old and the new, and you won't get into a pickle at the same time with most. Draft and replenish while keeping a few core pieces longer than the others.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

you pay to get better, but you also save where you can to keep acquiring talent.  Why grab a vet wide receiver for +$20million when you have the opportunity to draft one to start for MUCH less.

 

One thing we don’t want to do is blow our cap because we have a QB on a rookie deal.  Kind of have to let the draft supplement FA.  I agree, spend money on needs to get better, but if there are better or comparable options in the draft, I’d rather draft someone and use the money to address another need.  Having $40 million tied up in 2 receivers will limit what we can do.  We’d HAVE to hit in the draft.

Our best chance to get good to great players is now considering AR is under a rookie contract for the next 3 years. Sooner or later we have to just say the hell with it and go for it. If Ballard believes in AR he would be real aggressive, JMO.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Some will say, I would never pay a guy 18 mill a year. Yet half the teams in the league do it every year to improve. I am not sure why Colts fans have the mentality of not spending? Then when we don't get the players they wanted, the same people complain  . Well, it takes money to get your guy - common sense. If AR is the real deal on a rookie contract, I would go for it. 

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Some will say, I would never pay a guy 18 mill a year. Yet half the teams in the league do it every year to improve. I am not sure why Colts fans have the mentality of not spending? Then when we don't get the players they wanted, the same people complain  . Well, it takes money to get your guy - common sense. If AR is the real deal on a rookie contract, I would go for it. 

 

You can pay but spread it out to different positions so that you don't keep an existing weakness and spend in FA (not same as re-signing your own) on positions where vets can contribute better than draftees - those to me would be OL, DL and safety. 

 

Skill positions (WR/TE/RB) and playing CB - typically the draftees get up to speed fast enough compared to the above 3. LBs can be hit and miss but getting young there is always a plus and they depend on DL to allow them to make plays, so get seasoned DL but younger drafted LBs would be the way I would go.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Our best chance to get good to great players is now considering AR is under a rookie contract for the next 3 years. Sooner or later we have to just say the hell with it and go for it. If Ballard believes in AR he would be real aggressive, JMO.

Believing is one thing, having seen the results is totally a different proven fact. You don't wanna spend too much based on projections and outlooks. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

You can pay but spread it out to different positions so that you don't keep an existing weakness and especially positions where vets can contribute better than draftees - those to me would be OL, DL and safety. 

 

Skill positions (WR/TE/RB) and playing CB - typically the draftees get up to speed fast enough compared to the above 3. LBs can be hit and miss but getting young there is always a plus and they depend on DL to allow them to make plays, so get seasoned DL but younger drafted LBs would be the way I would go.

It is just strange reading from a fan base that has said, I would never pay Taylor 12 Mill a year or Pittman 20 Mill a year. That is way too much according to some. 

 

It really isn't, I am even talking about our own. That is actually almost being underpaid for how great they are.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is just strange reading from a fan base that has said, I would never pay Taylor 12 Mill a year or Pittman 20 Mill a year. That is way too much according to some. 

 

It really isn't, I am even talking about our own. That is actually almost being underpaid for how great they are.

 

Yeah, you don't know what you have till it is gone, that is typically how it goes. Every year, a new FA contract or re-signing can reset the position's market again. That is just how it goes.

[NewColtsFan]

33 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

"There's always money in the banana stand". 

 

If we want to pay a player, we basically can. 

RC…..

 

with great respect….

 

I’m not sure anything in the NFL is ever that simple.   Things can get complicated.  They do every year for 32 teams. 

[smittywerb]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Our best chance to get good to great players is now considering AR is under a rookie contract for the next 3 years. Sooner or later we have to just say the hell with it and go for it. If Ballard believes in AR he would be real aggressive, JMO.

We do, but we’re not there yet.  My biggest complaint is that Ballard doesn’t attack FA aggressively, but I also think that doesn’t we have to spend the most money every free agency. When we’re a couple pieces away and have the talent, then I’d say go into win now mode.  This team is not in win now mode, we don’t even know if ar can stay healthy for a full season yet.  
 

maybe we agree and don’t even know it.  Like I think we need to spend money on a FS and elite every down de.  I just think spending $20mill on a vet wr when the draft class is STACKED would be spending money unnecessarily.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, smittywerb said:

We do, but we’re not there yet.  My biggest complaint is that Ballard doesn’t attack FA aggressively, but I also think that doesn’t we have to spend the most money every free agency. When we’re a couple pieces away and have the talent, then I’d say go into win now mode.  This team is not in win now mode, we don’t even know if ar can stay healthy for a full season yet.  
 

maybe we agree and don’t even know it.  Like I think we need to spend money on a FS and elite every down de.  I just think spending $20mill on a vet wr when the draft class is STACKED would be spending money unnecessarily.  

We agree to a point. Of course I am not for throwing money away on has beens.

[RollerColt]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

RC…..

 

with great respect….

 

I’m not sure anything in the NFL is ever that simple.   Things can get complicated.  They do every year for 32 teams. 

I agree with that. 

 

I also know that all 32 teams have people on staff who do nothing but think about numbers. My statement was that there's often a way to work with those numbers against the cap if a GM and their staff truly want a player and are committed to getting or keeping them. The Chiefs with paying Mahomes and now Chris Jones being an example. 

 

If they really want to pay some serious money, they could also do the same thing with Snead. 

[Superman]

39 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

"There's always money in the banana stand". 

 

 

Irsay to Ballard:

 

[RollerColt]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Irsay to Ballard:

 

There it is! That moment goes through my mind at least once a week at my school hahaha!

[Blueblood23]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is just strange reading from a fan base that has said, I would never pay Taylor 12 Mill a year or Pittman 20 Mill a year. That is way too much according to some. 

 

It really isn't, I am even talking about our own. That is actually almost being underpaid for how great they are.

These owners are paying players like it’s bags full of garbage. Players don’t have to do much to make over a million a game anymore. They don’t even have to win. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

These owners are paying players like it’s bags full of garbage. Players don’t have to do much to make over a million a game anymore. They don’t even have to win. 

I was shocked that anyone was displeased with Taylor's contract. The guy is great and a good man for our city. 

[Blueblood23]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was shocked that anyone was displeased with Taylor's contract. The guy is great and a good man for our city. 

The thing about that was the club said he had a contract and was going to hold him to it. Then they caved in. Not a good message to the players when management can’t be believed and now they know it. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Blueblood23 said:

The thing about that was the club said he had a contract and was going to hold him to it. Then they caved in. Not a good message to the players when management can’t be believed and now they know it. 

Good point. I knew in the end we would sign him; he was too great. These games bother me, but I am used to it following the sport for 45 years.

[DattMavis]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I want a division a Title. 

Division? Wait! You can win that?!?😱

[GoColts8818]

https://fox59.com/sports/colts-michael-pittman-jr-knew-the-whole-time-this-was-going-to-happen/
 

Like I said way back when Pittman said he wanted to test the market he knew all along this is how it would go and he would wind up back in Indy.

[Superman]

Deets on Pittman's contract: https://overthecap.com/player/michael-pittman-jr/8774

 

Looks like it's $68m over three years, first year cap hit is $18m. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:48 AM, chad72 said:

 

Jones is their own, they drafted him and they paid him, not the same as paying someone in FA like the Jaguars. He was a big reason they beat Burrow and the Bengals in the 2022 season AFCCG and a big reason they beat the Bills, Ravens, 49ers etc. in the big playoff games in the 2023 season playoffs. His sack and pressure numbers, justifiably, got him Aaron Donald money, just 2 years later (Donald got 3 years $95 mil. guaranteed after 2021 SB win). A case can be made, without Chris Jones, Mahomes does not go back-to-back.

 

Reggie White never got CJ money, this is why. It is not reasonable to even compare eras because Reggie White was not part of this NFL with ridiculous TV contracts with the NFL and high salary cap that allowed CJ to get paid. Just like Joe Montana would have easily been paid $50 mil. a year and Reggie White would have been paid $35 mil. a year, to keep it in perspective.

Totally agree and that is why Ballard's philosophy of building in the trenches is not wrong. He was unable to find a LT, but Rainmann  looks legit and the Oline seems to be coming together . He still has not been able to find a pass rushing DE after 7 years and that is his greatest blemish.  Besides Buckner, there is not a lot of pass rushing talent on the D line and please ignore the sack totals from last year.  The qb  position seems to be solved short of a career ending injury, as Richardson did look the part while he played. He still needs time before we can finally put that one to bed. For all the love of the great wr's in the league. If you look at the top teams that made it to the final four, it was because they have a franchise qb and good line play at both ends. It is really pretty simple on how to build a great team. Franchise qb and good O and D lines.  This has been the formula since football was created as a sport.   The rest are pieces you can add once you get those areas solved. I have been critical of Ballard not on his philosophy in building a team. I have been critical of him not being able to draft the talent that allows his philosophy to become a legit playoff team year after year. He needs to draft and/or add a DE, corner and safety to allow the D take a huge step forward. I think the pieces on the O are there if we left them develop. I would not be opposed to a wr  but I believe this draft has to be heavy defensively.