2 players Who Are Strangely being Underutilized

[Defjamz26]

One thing that jumped out to me from the Bucs win is that in the little we saw from them, both Will Mallory and Nick Cross looked good. Mallory always seems to catch the ball for a good gain when he’s in, and then he don’t see him on the field.

 

Cross is even stranger though. The team has struggled as a whole with tackling, but he comes in and makes a really great tackle and then is gone. He played 2 total defensive snaps.

 

 

I really don’t understand why these two players haven’t gotten more time. What is everyone’s thoughts? The situation with Cross is reminding me of Rodgers last year. Let the guy play free. His speed in the clip isn’t something any DB on the roster has except for Flowers.

[coming on strong]

 dayo is also under used i would start dayo over paye at this point . dayo has a higher ceiling and paye just doesnt get a ton of sacks

[Solid84]

I think our TEs in general are underused in the passing game.

[ProblChld32]

14 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

One thing that jumped out to me from the Bucs win is that in the little we saw from them, both Will Mallory and Nick Cross looked good. Mallory always seems to catch the ball for a good gain when he’s in, and then he don’t see him on the field.

 

Cross is even stranger though. The team has struggled as a whole with tackling, but he comes in and makes a really great tackle and then is gone. He played 2 total defensive snaps.

 

 

I really don’t understand why these two players haven’t gotten more time. What is everyone’s thoughts? The situation with Cross is reminding me of Rodgers last year. Let the guy play free. His speed in the clip isn’t something any DB on the roster has except for Flowers.

They’ve already said the thing with Cross is being able to find packages where he fits on the field. As it stands you have Thomas and Blackmon starting so who is he going to come in for? As for Mallory it’s just a VERY crowded TE room. Hard to give everyone the ball when you have granson and MAC leading the way with no Ogletree. 

[Defjamz26]

55 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

They’ve already said the thing with Cross is being able to find packages where he fits on the field. As it stands you have Thomas and Blackmon starting so who is he going to come in for? As for Mallory it’s just a VERY crowded TE room. Hard to give everyone the ball when you have granson and MAC leading the way with no Ogletree. 

Well Blackmon has been all the rage lately but he really isn’t great against the run. Not really an enforcer who stops people. Moreso great in pass coverage. Would bring him in on 1st and 2nd down. Also, Thomas hasn’t been great at all.

 

And crowded TE room? Jelani is on IR and done for the season. Ogletree has been banged up too. Aside from Cox, he’s been the most consistent in terms of being available. So it really hasn’t been as crowded as it seems.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

One thing that jumped out to me from the Bucs win is that in the little we saw from them, both Will Mallory and Nick Cross looked good. Mallory always seems to catch the ball for a good gain when he’s in, and then he don’t see him on the field.

 

Cross is even stranger though. The team has struggled as a whole with tackling, but he comes in and makes a really great tackle and then is gone. He played 2 total defensive snaps.

 

 

I really don’t understand why these two players haven’t gotten more time. What is everyone’s thoughts? The situation with Cross is reminding me of Rodgers last year. Let the guy play free. His speed in the clip isn’t something any DB on the roster has except for Flowers.

I think you earn your playing time at practice.  Cross has to play better than Thomas.   It’s not just tackling its judgement and recognizing coverage assignments.  Mallory is caught in a very crowded TE room.

[JediXMan]

How many snaps does Mckinze play  not counting P/K returns.

[John Hammonds]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

One thing that jumped out to me from the Bucs win is that in the little we saw from them, both Will Mallory and Nick Cross looked good. Mallory always seems to catch the ball for a good gain when he’s in, and then he don’t see him on the field.

 

Cross is even stranger though. The team has struggled as a whole with tackling, but he comes in and makes a really great tackle and then is gone. He played 2 total defensive snaps.

 

 

I really don’t understand why these two players haven’t gotten more time. What is everyone’s thoughts? The situation with Cross is reminding me of Rodgers last year. Let the guy play free. His speed in the clip isn’t something any DB on the roster has except for Flowers.

Cross is a Strong Safety.  Blackmon plays the same position, and has been playing lights out.  Cross isn't getting a chance because someone else is playing that well.

[holeymoley99]

35 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Cross is a Strong Safety.  Blackmon plays the same position, and has been playing lights out.  Cross isn't getting a chance because someone else is playing that well.

Cross can play both Free and Strong (All spent time at slot corner in camp).  Thomas is grading out at 58.4 for the season, Corss at 85.4 in limited snaps.

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Cross can play both Free and Strong (All spent time at slot corner in camp).  Thomas is grading out at 58.4 for the season, Corss at 85.4 in limited snaps.

And yet Cross can’t beat him out.  That tells you he’s not ready.  Limited snaps is right.  Special teams almost exclusively.

[Solid84]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

And yet Cross can’t beat him out.  That tells you he’s not ready.  Limited snaps is right.  Special teams almost exclusively.

I know the coaches see much more of the backups than we do, but this was the exact same situation with Isaiah Rodgers vs. Facyson. It took Bradley too long to figure out what was obvious to everyone else.

 

I'm not saying Cross is definitely better than Thomas, but Cross has shown flashes (in very limited snaps of course) and Thomas just isn't good. I doubt Cross would be much worse than Thomas and Thomas has played bad enough that a change could happen.

[Solid84]

7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think you earn your playing time at practice.  Cross has to play better than Thomas.   It’s not just tackling its judgement and recognizing coverage assignments.  Mallory is caught in a very crowded TE room.

Is he though?

 

Cox isn't worth his contract and Granson is our 6th lowest graded offensive player this season. Granson has borderline played himself out of the starter job this season in my opinion.

 

My guess is what's likely keeping Mallory off the field is TE is a difficult position to learn and he's a 5th round rookie.

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I know the coaches see much more of the backups than we do, but this was the exact same situation with Isaiah Rodgers vs. Facyson. It took Bradley too long to figure out what was obvious to everyone else.

 

I'm not saying Cross is definitely better than Thomas, but Cross has shown flashes (in very limited snaps of course) and Thomas just isn't good. I doubt Cross would be much worse than Thomas and Thomas has played bad enough that a change could happen.

It definitely smells like one of those Bradley things where he just likes certain guys. I’m okay with the release because of the contract, but he was doing the same with Shaq.

 

It’s weird to me to think he just can’t play because last offseason he went through a full TC and pre-season and was named a starter at SS. Then after a game or two the announcers said the SS has a lot of responsibility in Gus’ scheme, and he wasn’t ready just yet. But I never remember him making any really horrible plays. It’s the strangest thing ever. I mean he’s the backup SS and is only getting 2 snaps on defense.

[Defjamz26]

8 hours ago, richard pallo said:

And yet Cross can’t beat him out.  That tells you he’s not ready.  Limited snaps is right.  Special teams almost exclusively.

 

 

10 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think you earn your playing time at practice.  Cross has to play better than Thomas.

He beat him out last year though. They were both rookies and he they named him the starter at SS. But I get why you’d star McLeod over him. Veteran experience irreplaceable.

 

But fast forward to this season and you start Thomas at FS (who couldn’t beat Blackmon out) and then you convert Blackmon to SS and start him over Cross. 
 

None of it makes sense IMO. Especially how they have never even given him a shot at FS and he has the best speed and range combination out of anyone on the team.

[Defjamz26]

I mean his college tape Is fillled with him making great reads back deep. Thats why I don’t get him only being a SS.

[MikeCurtis]

12 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

One thing that jumped out to me from the Bucs win is that in the little we saw from them, both Will Mallory and Nick Cross looked good. Mallory always seems to catch the ball for a good gain when he’s in, and then he don’t see him on the field.

 

Cross is even stranger though. The team has struggled as a whole with tackling, but he comes in and makes a really great tackle and then is gone. He played 2 total defensive snaps.

 

 

I really don’t understand why these two players haven’t gotten more time. What is everyone’s thoughts? The situation with Cross is reminding me of Rodgers last year. Let the guy play free. His speed in the clip isn’t something any DB on the roster has except for Flowers.

I agree on the post

 

The TE room is confusing to me

 

Ogletree / Mallory seem to do very well in blocking and catching the ball

 

With the emergence of Downs, we really need the inline TE to step forward

 

Mallory / Woods / Ogletree have all shown great potential.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

4 hours ago, Solid84 said:

Is he though?

 

Cox isn't worth his contract and Granson is our 6th lowest graded offensive player this season. Granson has borderline played himself out of the starter job this season in my opinion.

 

My guess is what's likely keeping Mallory off the field is TE is a difficult position to learn and he's a 5th round rookie.

Granson has been injured but was losing snaps to Downs

 

Granson is too small to be inline

[Dark Superman]

Gus Bradley is strange and has a reputation for doing this crap like when he had Brandon Facyson starting over Isaiah Rodgers last year because he was close to Facyson even though Rodgers was head and shoulders better than him in every facet of the game. There is no reason why Nick Cross isn't starting over Rodney Thomas in 2023.

[chad72]

This is the logical reason for TE usage.

 

Steichen in general can't use TEs as well with Minshew because of the batted balls because of the gaps between the tackles where those throws need to be made if they are shallow, which they are most of the time, within 15-20 yards. The throws have to be at / outside the numbers typically for Minshew to execute.

 

Most routes for TEs are down the seams because that is the shortest path from where they are lined up to minimize pass rush getting to Minshew, something AR showed, in a surprising way, that he can hit on those to Ogletree and even to Downs down the seams in his limited time on the field because of his height and he didn't have to roll left or right to accomplish it.

 

THAT is why the TEs are underutilized with Minshew at QB. It all makes sense to me now.  

[FanFromtheWasteland]

13 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I think our TEs in general are underused in the passing game.

How much  do you think that is due to Garner?

[BlackTiger]

Cant comment on everyone but Blackmon is actually playing pretty well,  Cross simply isnt beating him out.  Pff has him at a 76 which is good

[Dingus McGirt]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

It definitely smells like one of those Bradley things where he just likes certain guys. I’m okay with the release because of the contract, but he was doing the same with Shaq.

 

It’s weird to me to think he just can’t play because last offseason he went through a full TC and pre-season and was named a starter at SS. Then after a game or two the announcers said the SS has a lot of responsibility in Gus’ scheme, and he wasn’t ready just yet. But I never remember him making any really horrible plays. It’s the strangest thing ever. I mean he’s the backup SS and is only getting 2 snaps on defense.

Spot on.

[Shadow_Creek]

on another note is Granson still hurt?

[chad72]

56 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

How much do you think that is due to Gardner?

 

Yep. Plus his release point isn't higher either like AR thus resulting in more batted balls down the middle.

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

 

He beat him out last year though. They were both rookies and he they named him the starter at SS. But I get why you’d star McLeod over him. Veteran experience irreplaceable.

 

But fast forward to this season and you start Thomas at FS (who couldn’t beat Blackmon out) and then you convert Blackmon to SS and start him over Cross. 
 

None of it makes sense IMO. Especially how they have never even given him a shot at FS and he has the best speed and range combination out of anyone on the team.

Blackmon’s best position is SS.  They moved him back to it this year.  Now he is excelling and I’m happy for him.  Cross was very young when we traded up to draft him.  20 years old I believe.  That could be part of his problem.  A lot to handle as a rookie.  I don’t see him unseating Blackmon now.  I think his best shot is FS if he can learn the position.  If he can’t I’m not sure his future is with the Colts.

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

How much  do you think that is due to Garner?

I don't know to be honest, but even when Steichen was with the Eagles their TEs had about 6-7 targets per game combined - 110 total targets in 2022. That would be a lot of targets for a single TE (Goedert had 85 of them), but when Ballard keeps drafting athletic freak at TE I kinda expected they would be a feature of the offense.

 

After 11 games out TEs have a combined 62 targets - 5.64 per game. I just think this is what we can expect, but I don't really like it.

[husker61]

I don’t think batted balls is a reason to not throw to the te’s. They can happen no matter where you throw short and the colts aren’t throwing many deep balls to anyone.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I agree on the post

 

The TE room is confusing to me

 

Ogletree / Mallory seem to do very well in blocking and catching the ball

 

With the emergence of Downs, we really need the inline TE to step forward

 

Mallory / Woods / Ogletree have all shown great potential.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I were to remake the TE room, I'd start with Ogletree as the in-line TE and Mallory as the move TE.   And we typically carry 4.

 

Cox and Granson can seek roster competition.  Woods needs to show me that he can stay healthy or fix whatever he's got going on off-field (his injury situation seems odd)

[sb41champs]

Our entire TE group is being considerably underutilized!!  Thus far this year - Will Mallory seems to be the "cream of the crop".

 

Nick Cross is definitely a head-scratcher!!  He can lower the boom - and - would definitely help in the defensive backfield.

[Defjamz26]

8 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Blackmon’s best position is SS.  They moved him back to it this year.  Now he is excelling and I’m happy for him.  Cross was very young when we traded up to draft him.  20 years old I believe.  That could be part of his problem.  A lot to handle as a rookie.  I don’t see him unseating Blackmon now.  I think his best shot is FS if he can learn the position.  If he can’t I’m not sure his future is with the Colts.

The issue is Cross and Thomas are the same age. Thomas is starting at FS and he hasn’t been good. Take out the Patriots interception which was just a really bad ball, and his PFF is probably in the 40s. You want to make the argument for Blackmon being better at SS fine. But I don’t see how they haven’t even tried him at FS and you have a 7th round small school player back there. Why did he join the team and Bradley immediately decide “Yeah he’s a strong safety”?

 

I haven’t seen any safety make a good read and tackle like the one he made on Sunday.

[richard pallo]

40 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

The issue is Cross and Thomas are the same age. Thomas is starting at FS and he hasn’t been good. Take out the Patriots interception which was just a really bad ball, and his PFF is probably in the 40s. You want to make the argument for Blackmon being better at SS fine. But I don’t see how they haven’t even tried him at FS and you have a 7th round small school player back there. Why did he join the team and Bradley immediately decide “Yeah he’s a strong safety”?

 

I haven’t seen any safety make a good read and tackle like the one he made on Sunday.

For me the issue is Cross can not beat out Thomas for the FS spot.  We really don’t know if they have tried him at FS spot or not.  But considering Thomas’s play I would bet they have.  The fact they are the same age makes it even more worrisome.  We traded up to draft Cross and here he is still playing primarily special teams.  It goes to show you where you are drafted does not guarantee you success.  Zaire can attest to that.  Maybe next year he makes his move for the FS spot.  And there is still time this year too for that matter.  We’ll see I guess.