AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[coming on strong]

25 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

To the bolded, as was the case with Andrew Luck throughout most of his career.  To the point, though, fact of the matter is that AR’s sample size was too small to make any judgements. Ergo, the comparison for this year is over, being that the only relevance here is how the others compare to AR.

andrew luck was a better pocket passer in this stage .  i think richardson has huge potential in the future to be very good .  all i was saying is right now he is still raw as a pocket passer .   i am glad we have him i just want to see him take the next step next year .

[Tsarquise]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I thought Stroud was QB1 in this year's draft, but I didn't want to trade up for him, either. Especially not for the price the Panthers paid -- essentially three first round picks. So realistically, he wasn't an option for the Colts.

 

I also don't know that the Panthers and Texans (and Colts) didn't like Levis enough to draft him in the first round. I think they just liked the guys they drafted better, which is reasonable.

You don't think 3 first round picks is worth a franchise QB? 

[coming on strong]

31 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

When your a dual threat QB it gives him a chance to have a major impact while that gets better.

Also if you don’t think Richardson has phenomenal pocket awareness you weren’t watching.

i never said he didnt have great pocket awareness  he does .   he is just spotty as a  passer right now he makes patrick mahomes throws on some plays but goes cold for drives at a time and misses throws .    my whole point was saying as a pocket passer he is not on strouds level right now .   that doesnt mean in the next two years he is not elite he can be easily .  he is just raw and needs to keep developing .    i wasnt expecting him to be like luck and be good right away he was raw coming out thisof college .   i love what i saw from him so far and he is way ahead of schedule .   

[colts89]

2 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

I don't understand how people are so convinced that AR is the next franchise QB of the Colts; nothing suggests it. 

 

It feels like I'm in the Twilight zone. 

 

If he didn't run really fast he would be irrelevant. Him being a running QB makes it all the more vexxing to me how so many of our fellow Colts fans – who spent over a decade watching pocket passing Manning annihilate the league

 – have bought in to AR being the next franchise guy. Some were even licking their chops at the prospects of a running QB. How? I have no clue. He even goes out and gets injured multiple times in a short time span, which is one of the biggest fears of having a running QB. 

 

I hope he turns out to be great, but there is nothing to suggest he will, and it would probably be wise to go in to the off-season as if we don't have a QB. 

 

 

It's just you in the Twilight Zone if you think the Colts are going into the off-season looking for a QB. Being concerned about his longevity due to the two injuries he had that made him miss time is one thing, but acting like he wasn't having a promising start this year showing a bunch of franchise QB talent as a 21 yr old rookie is something else.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

You don't think 3 first round picks is worth a franchise QB? 

 

I think an outstanding QB prospect could be worth three first round picks. I really liked Stroud, but I didn't see him as the type of player that would be worth that kind of investment, especially since next year's QB class looks even better. If he keeps living up to the current hype, I'd say in hindsight that he'd be worth the extra picks.

[Tsarquise]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I thought Stroud was QB1 in this year's draft, but I didn't want to trade up for him, either. Especially not for the price the Panthers paid -- essentially three first round picks. So realistically, he wasn't an option for the Colts.

 

I also don't know that the Panthers and Texans (and Colts) didn't like Levis enough to draft him in the first round. I think they just liked the guys they drafted better, which is reasonable.

You don't think 3 first round picks is worth a franchise QB?

 

*Double post*

[Tsarquise]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I think an outstanding QB prospect could be worth three first round picks. I really liked Stroud, but I didn't see him as the type of player that would be worth that kind of investment, especially since next year's QB class looks even better. If he keeps living up to the current hype, I'd say in hindsight that he'd be worth the extra picks.

Makes sense. I think it would have been worth it even without hindsight due to the Colts rarely drafting that high, and him clearly being the best passer in the draft. 

 

Next year's QB class is kind of irrelevant due to the Colts unlikely picking high enough, and  they still only got the number 4 pick last year after working really hard to get it (bad QB play, rookie O coordinator, Coach fired). This draft was also a bit unique because the Bears – with the number 1 pick – were still committed to Fields, so they were willing to trade. Usually the team with a high pick doesn't have a QB, so there is no guarantee that the team with a high pick would be willing to trade their chances at a QB. 

 

It's amazing how after one draft the Texans looks to be able to compete with anyone. High QB play is worth a lot. 

[Nate!]

1 minute ago, Tsarquise said:

Makes sense. I think it would have been worth it even without hindsight due to the Colts rarely drafting that high, and him clearly being the best passer in the draft. 

 

Next year's QB class is kind of irrelevant due to the Colts unlikely picking high enough, and  they still only got the number 4 pick last year after working really hard to get it (bad QB play, rookie O coordinator, Coach fired). This draft was also a bit unique because the Bears – with the number 1 pick – were still committed to Fields, so they were willing to trade. Usually the team with a high pick doesn't have a QB, so there is no guarantee that the team with a high pick would be willing to trade their chances at a QB. 

 

It's amazing how after one draft the Texans looks to be able to compete with anyone. High QB play is worth a lot. 

it’s all hindsight analysis at this point.  Had they traded up and taken Stroud and he was like Young, it would look disastrous.  I think pre-draft they did the right move.  Multiple QB prospects with pros and cons.  No clear sure fire top prospect.  In that scenario, you hold and let the chips fall where they may.

[IinD]

41 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I view it as a good thing. Not that I want the division to be loaded, but I also don't want the division to suck. The better the competition, the more work the Colts have to do. It does us no good to beat up on a weak division every year. If we have to keep up with a really good QB -- or three really good QBs -- it raises the bar.

I 100% with you Supe. That was my main point also. If he's great, sucks for us but it simply means you gotta get better and figure it out or continue to get beat.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Nate! said:

it’s all hindsight analysis at this point.  Had they traded up and taken Stroud and he was like Young, it would look disastrous.  I think pre-draft they did the right move.  Multiple QB prospects with pros and cons.  No clear sure fire top prospect.  In that scenario, you hold and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree, it isn't like it came down to Stroud or AR and we took AR instead. Having said that, I am still happy with our pick. Glad we took AR instead of Levis. 

[Tsarquise]

15 minutes ago, colts89 said:

It's just you in the Twilight Zone if you think the Colts are going into the off-season looking for a QB. Being concerned about his longevity due to the two injuries he had that made him miss time is one thing, but acting like he wasn't having a promising start this year showing a bunch of franchise QB talent as a 21 yr old rookie is something else.

If they find themselves in a position to get a top QB prospect, they should absolutely pull the trigger. 

 

The sample size was way too small to judge Anthony Richardson one way or the other, and due to his lack of experience in college, he should be given very little benefit of the doubt. As of right now, he is a huge question mark. 

[rockywoj]

2 hours ago, coming on strong said:

andrew luck was a better pocket passer in this stage .  i think richardson has huge potential in the future to be very good .  all i was saying is right now he is still raw as a pocket passer .   i am glad we have him i just want to see him take the next step next year .

No need to justify, and it is not a point to be debated about Andrew Luck being far ahead of AR at this point.  Obviously, he was. Luck would’ve been a HOF’er had he not bailed on his career, instead continuing along with good health.  That being said, though, all through his career I found myself wishing he had Manning’s accuracy and touch.  The point is, though, that AR ought not to be so harshly judged by his incredibly early career misfirings.  He is so raw and it’s just such a shame that his rookie year was lost to injury. For his future, I  remain hopeful.  IF he can come back healthy for next year, this thread topic will be very interesting indeed.  For the remainder of this year, though, it’s now a bore, like I said, moot for the remainder of 2023.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The reason. This thread is worthless now is there is nothing to compare with Richardson our. Should go over to the nfl side now.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Next year's QB class is kind of irrelevant due to the Colts unlikely picking high enough, and  they still only got the number 4 pick last year after working really hard to get it (bad QB play, rookie O coordinator, Coach fired).

 

It's easy to say that now, but look at the Panthers. They made a big move up, probably took the wrong guy, and now they're probably losing the top pick in a draft that has much better QB prospects. Let's say the Colts had missed at QB, and had a questionable HC hire, and our offense looked hopeless. We might be interested in drafting another QB already. And to be honest, while I like Richardson, if we wound up with the top 5 pick I wouldn't be totally against drafting another QB, depending on who it is. That's not a popular opinion, but I've said it all along and I stand by it. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

I don't understand how people are so convinced that AR is the next franchise QB of the Colts; nothing suggests it. 

 

It feels like I'm in the Twilight zone. 

 

If he didn't run really fast he would be irrelevant. Him being a running QB makes it all the more vexxing to me how so many of our fellow Colts fans – who spent over a decade watching pocket passing Manning annihilate the league

 – have bought in to AR being the next franchise guy. Some were even licking their chops at the prospects of a running QB. How? I have no clue. He even goes out and gets injured multiple times in a short time span, which is one of the biggest fears of having a running QB. 

 

I hope he turns out to be great, but there is nothing to suggest he will, and it would probably be wise to go in to the off-season as if we don't have a QB. 

 

 

I can say the same thing about Will Levis. "I don't understand how people are so convinced that" Levis "is the next franchise QB of the" Titans; "nothing suggests it"

 

Then when I talk bad about Will Levis I get thrown under a bus. The same people don't say crap to the posters that say AR is made of glass and they would have never drafted him. Hypocrites. It's a Colts site, throw those same people under the bus. 

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

I don't understand how people are so convinced that AR is the next franchise QB of the Colts; nothing suggests it. 

 

It feels like I'm in the Twilight zone. 

 

If he didn't run really fast he would be irrelevant. Him being a running QB makes it all the more vexxing to me how so many of our fellow Colts fans – who spent over a decade watching pocket passing Manning annihilate the league

 – have bought in to AR being the next franchise guy. Some were even licking their chops at the prospects of a running QB. How? I have no clue. He even goes out and gets injured multiple times in a short time span, which is one of the biggest fears of having a running QB. 

 

I hope he turns out to be great, but there is nothing to suggest he will, and it would probably be wise to go in to the off-season as if we don't have a QB. 

 

 

If you don't show your 100% loyalty to the home tribe by assuming the best, then you might be shunned as a negative hater.  Simply saying neutral things may be viewed as negative.....because neutral is neither black or white and comments where there are a lot of unknowns are supposed to be biased to the positive.  

 

As much as I want AR to succeed as a passer who escapes/extends more than runs, I realize that he got hurt three times on three rather routine tackles....almost as if his body hasn't played very much football, where his body might have told him years ago that success might be different if the opponent is not so physically inferior to the typical HS and college player.  That's my concern.  Shoulder surgery...yeah sure.  But what happens if he hits the ground hard again on some other part of his body. 

 

Some big kids just aren't built to take the punishment of their own body weight hitting the ground, let alone another body on top of that.  Your own 255 pounds can bang up a joint pretty well.  Most of the time, fragile bodies are weeded out of the game of football before they even become a college starter. 

 

It seems that Bryce Young can handle the piling up of routine punishment, even against bodies that weigh more than him.  That's good for him.  I'm concerned about AR's ability to do that. 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

If you don't show your 100% loyalty to the home tribe by assuming the best, then you might be shunned as a negative hater.  Simply saying neutral things may be viewed as negative.....because neutral is neither black or white and comments where there are a lot of unknowns are supposed to be biased to the positive.  

 

As much as I want AR to succeed as a passer who escapes/extends more than runs, honesty compels me to realize that he got hurt three times on three rather routine tackles....almost as if his body hasn't played very much football, where his body might have told him years ago that success might be different if the opponent is not so physically inferior to the typical HS and college player.  That's my concern.  Shoulder surgery...yeah sure.  But what happens if he hits the ground hard again on some other part of his body. 

 

Some big kids just aren't built to take the punishment of their own body weight hitting the ground, let alone another body on top of that.  Your own 255 pounds can bang up a joint pretty well.  Most of the time, fragile bodies are weeded out of the game of football before they even become a college starter. 

 

It seems that Bryce Young can handle the piling up of routine punishment, even against bodies that weigh more than him.  That's good for him.  AR has not displayed the ability to handle routine hard hitting NFL tackles over a period of time, IMO.

 

 

 

To your 1st sentence. Completely False. That is in your head. I know I am not like that - you can think I am all you want. I think it is funny at this point. I call games how I see them, and I say who I think will be good or bad unbiasedly. Just because I am not going to root for Stroud or Levis has no bearing whether or not how good they may be. Why would I root for Stroud or Levis to play good, they are in our division? Like I said though, when I rate players, that hasn't nothing to do with my fandom, 2 different things. Rooting for a rival would be like a Colts fan rooting for Tom Brady back in the day. To me Tom is the GOAT, so 2 totally different things.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To your 1st sentence. Completely False. That is in your head. I know I am not like that - you can think I am all you want. I think it is funny at this point. I call games how I see them, and I say who I think will be good or bad unbiasedly. Just because I am not going to root for Stroud or Levis has no bearing whether or not how good they may be. Why would I root for Stroud or Levis to play good, they are in our division? Like I said though, when I rate players, that hasn't nothing to do with my fandom, 2 different things. Rooting for a rival would be like a Colts fan rooting for Tom Brady back in the day. To me Tom is the GOAT, so 2 totally different things.

In my 10 years and 20K posts here, there have been and still are plenty of posters on this site that get all foamy when comments don't fall in the positive line they demand.   Some even lurk the site and wait to pounce on an opportunity.  

 

Your post is kind of all over the place.  The bolded equates people rating other QBs as rooting for them, yet your italics say you don't.  So when folks used to say that Brady played well, even the times when he beat Manning, do you think people were rooting for Brady?  How is that different than people commenting that Stroud and Levis have played well for the most part?

 

You kind of imply that everybody else is saying nice things about other players because they secretly favor them over AR, but that you cut it down the middle.   That's funny.     

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

In my 10 years and 20K posts here, there have been and still are plenty of posters on this site that get all foamy when comments don't fall in the positive line they demand.   Some even lurk the site and wait to pounce on an opportunity.  

 

Your post is kind of all over the place.  The bolded equates people rating other QBs as rooting for them, yet your italics say you don't.  So when folks used to say that Brady played well, even the times when he beat Manning, do you think people were rooting for Brady?  How is that different than people commenting that Stroud and Levis have played well for the most part?

 

You kind of imply that everybody else is saying nice things about other players because they secretly favor them over AR, but that you cut it down the middle.   That's funny.     

 

When have I ever said Levis sucks or has played badly? Up until yesterday I haven't. I think it is a fair assessment to say he played bad yesterday. I said he played average at Pitt, that is far from saying he sucked, and you ripped my opinion to shreds. Why haven't you given me credit for saying Levis played great at Atlanta which I posted or me saying Stroud is the best so far out of the rookies? When it comes to me, you seem to nitpick every little negative thing I say about a player that you may like, or thinks will be good. When it comes to AR, when other posters say he is made of glass or won't be a franchise QB, I have never seen you once question them?? Funny. What good does it do to critique, if we just sit here and say, yeah so and so was great this week when he actually wasn't? The only thing I have ever said about AR when compared to Levis is, I think he has a higher ceiling and I wanted AR in the draft, how is that bashing Levis?

[Two_pound]

I wanted Stroud after he played his first season at Ohio State and after last season I was one of the few on here who wanted the Colts to do what it would have taken to move up and draft him. Richardson did ok while he played but I don't think he is going to be the caliber of Stroud. And to respond to Supermans comment about this next years draft for qb's, there isn't anyone coming out that will be anywhere near the player Stroud(or Richardson for that matter) will be. Williams, Maye, Penix jr.? NO, NO, and NO. Let's hope Richardson has a full recovery and his injury days are behind him, full speed ahead!

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When have I ever said Levis sucks or has played badly? Up until yesterday I haven't. I think it is a fair assessment to say he played bad yesterday. I said he played average at Pitt, that is far from saying he sucked, and you ripped my opinion to shreds. Why haven't you given me credit for saying Levis played great at Atlanta which I posted or me saying Stroud is the best so far out of the rookies? When it comes to me, you seem to nitpick every little negative thing I say about a player that you may like, or thinks will be good. When it comes to AR, when other posters say he is made of glass or won't be a franchise QB, I have never seen you once question them?? Funny. What good does it do to critique, if we just sit here and say, yeah so and so was great this week when he actually wasn't? The only thing I have ever said about AR when compared to Levis is, I think he has a higher ceiling and I wanted AR in the draft, how is that bashing Levis?

Are you looking for credit from me?  I didn't know that.  Ok, I give you credit.

 

So you agree that when people say nice things about how Stroud and Levis are playing, they are saying them in the same way they said Brady played well, or Rivers played well (with SD), or Ben.....and its not the same thing as rooting for them?  Or some sort of secret hate for AR?

 

Having said that, I like to watch good QB play no matter what team it is....which means great passing....so I do hope that each one of them does well when I watch them (not necessarily when they play the Colts), because that's what makes the NFL show fun to watch.  Watching incompetent passing is like sitting through a bad movie.

 

(Unless you have a real running offense like Nebraska vs Oklahoma back in the day, then watching the blocking schemes is fun too)

[Smonroe]

I'm not going back through a hundred messages.  But I was just laughing about all the people here who didn't want Stroud.

 

"No Ohio State QB is ever going to be good in the NFL!"  

 

You know who you are...

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Are you looking for credit from me?  I didn't know that.  Ok, I give you credit.

 

So you agree that when people say nice things about how Stroud and Levis are playing, they are saying them in the same way they said Brady played well, or Rivers played well (with SD), or Ben.....and its not the same thing as rooting for them?  Or some sort of secret hate for AR?

 

Having said that, I like to watch good QB play no matter what team it is....which means great passing....so I do hope that each one of them does well when I watch them (not necessarily when they play the Colts), because that's what makes the NFL show fun to watch.  Watching incompetent passing is like sitting through a bad movie.

 

(Unless you have a real running offense like Nebraska vs Oklahoma back in the day, then watching the blocking schemes is fun too)

to your 2nd paragraph, I agree 100%. That is what I have been trying to say. If Levis plays great next week and you say he did, I won't disagree at all or call you a Levis fan, you are just critiquing what you are seeing. Next season if AR has a bad game, I will be right here saying so. If he plays great, same thing. I miss those Nebraska/Oklahoma games. That was must watch TV. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

I'm not going back through a hundred messages.  But I was just laughing about all the people here who didn't want Stroud.

 

"No Ohio State QB is ever going to be good in the NFL!"  

 

You know who you are...

I actually had him and Young ranked 1 and 2. So far Young isn't cutting the mustard. With Young, it could be coaching and scheme. Not sure?

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I actually had him and Young ranked 1 and 2. So far Young isn't cutting the mustard. With Young, it could be coaching and scheme. Not sure?

 

Young doesn't have much talent around him.  But before the season started, people said the same thing about Houston.  A lot of pundits had them as the worst team in the league.  Young definitely needs help with the Oline.

 

Stroud was always my #1 (and not just because I'm a Buckeye).  He's a very accurate pocket passer who can move when necessary.  An ideal NFL QB.  He's showing that a good QB can make a mediocre team dangerous. 

 

Let's hope AR can stay healthy and continue to flash.  (But, dang it, there are a lot of really good QBs in next years draft)

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Young doesn't have much talent around him.  But before the season started, people said the same thing about Houston.  A lot of pundits had them as the worst team in the league.  Young definitely needs help with the Oline.

 

Stroud was always my #1 (and not just because I'm a Buckeye).  He's a very accurate pocket passer who can move when necessary.  An ideal NFL QB.  He's showing that a good QB can make a mediocre team dangerous. 

 

Let's hope AR can stay healthy and continue to flash.  (But, dang it, there are a lot of really good QBs in next years draft)

I think AR can be the 2nd best QB in this class at worse. He has the ceiling for it. I thought he had some decent moments when he played this year. Stroud looks like a beast though. Almost Burrowish so far.

[RollerColt]

34 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

I'm not going back through a hundred messages.  But I was just laughing about all the people here who didn't want Stroud.

 

"No Ohio State QB is ever going to be good in the NFL!"  

 

You know who you are...

Joe Burrow says hello too! 

 

Although he claims himself as only a LSU Tiger... 

[Smonroe]

12 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Joe Burrow says hello too! 

 

Although he claims himself as only a LSU Tiger... 

 

If he didn't hurt his wrist, he would have started at OSU.  But Haskins had a record setting year and beat TTUN, so no one is complaining.  (If only they had a defense that year...)

[Solid84]

16 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

I don't understand how people are so convinced that AR is the next franchise QB of the Colts; nothing suggests it. 

 

It feels like I'm in the Twilight zone. 

 

If he didn't run really fast he would be irrelevant. Him being a running QB makes it all the more vexxing to me how so many of our fellow Colts fans – who spent over a decade watching pocket passing Manning annihilate the league

 – have bought in to AR being the next franchise guy. Some were even licking their chops at the prospects of a running QB. How? I have no clue. He even goes out and gets injured multiple times in a short time span, which is one of the biggest fears of having a running QB. 

 

I hope he turns out to be great, but there is nothing to suggest he will, and it would probably be wise to go in to the off-season as if we don't have a QB. 

 

 

I don’t know about nothing suggesting he can be a franchise QB. 
 

• 7 TDs in 3 games.
• Good pocket awareness.
• He’s made big time throws. 
• Great comeback against the Rams even if we didn’t win.

There’s been plenty good. It seems to me most people who don’t like AR generally want a pure pocket passer and use that as an excuse to knock AR. I get preferences and all that, but ultimately it’s about winning. Why does it matter if AR needs to run as well as pass to win?

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

If he didn't hurt his wrist, he would have started at OSU.  But Haskins had a record setting year and beat TTUN, so no one is complaining.  (If only they had a defense that year...)

Very true. It worked out beautifully for everyone involved. Joe got his storybook ending, and is almost a God in Louisiana, OSU has continued to be relevant, developed Stroud into a great young man and now they're still rolling with the next crop of players. 

[ADnum1]

52 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

I'm not going back through a hundred messages.  But I was just laughing about all the people here who didn't want Stroud.

 

"No Ohio State QB is ever going to be good in the NFL!"  

 

You know who you are...

I'll have to fess up and admit that was me.

 

I have a big plate of crow to eat....

 

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, PRnum1 said:

I'll have to fess up and admit that was me.

 

I have a big plate of crow to eat....

 

 

Actually, you're not the only one.

 

Don't feel bad.  Just look at the weekly prediction thread.  No one here (including me) can guess the future.

[Tsarquise]

50 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I don’t know about nothing suggesting he can be a franchise QB. 
 

• 7 TDs in 3 games.
• Good pocket awareness.
• He’s made big time throws. 
• Great comeback against the Rams even if we didn’t win.

There’s been plenty good. It seems to me most people who don’t like AR generally want a pure pocket passer and use that as an excuse to knock AR. I get preferences and all that, but ultimately it’s about winning. Why does it matter if AR needs to run as well as pass to win?

 

It matters because passing is king in the NFL, period. 

 

Elite passing separates the contenders from the pretenders. 

 

Having an elite QB that can run would be awesome. Having a running QB (an athletic player but mediocre to poor passer) is less than ideal; these players don't usually lead their teams to the top consistently. 

 

And, yes, I'm one of those people that want a QB that excels at passing, or a pocket passer. 

 

It's not a coincidence that most (all?) of the past super bowl winners in the last 20 years have had QBs that are elite passers. I don't remember any running QBs – which, again, are QBs that produce mostly with their athleticism as opposed to their passing, which is usually mediocre to poor) winning the super bowl. 

 

As a passer, Richardson didn't have very great stats, and he has proven to be quite fragile so far, which erases his efficacy as a runner. And if his injuries are not just  simply bad luck, his fragility erases the advantage of his athleticism. 

 

If you had a choice, would you choose a running QB or a pocket passer? 

 

 

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

 

It matters because passing is king in the NFL, period. 

 

Elite passing separates the contenders from the pretenders. 

 

Having an elite QB that can run would be awesome. Having a running QB (an athletic player but mediocre to poor passer) is less than ideal; these players don't usually lead their teams to the top consistently. 

 

And, yes, I'm one of those people that want a QB that excels at passing, or a pocket passer. 

 

It's not a coincidence that most (all?) of the past super bowl winners in the last 20 years have had QBs that are elite passers. I don't remember any running QBs – which, again, are QBs that produce mostly with their athleticism as opposed to their passing, which is usually mediocre to poor) winning the super bowl. 

 

As a passer, Richardson didn't have very great stats, and he has proven to be quite fragile so far, which erases his efficacy as a runner. And if his injuries are not just  simply bad luck, his fragility erases the advantage of his athleticism. 

 

If you had a choice, would you choose a running QB or a pocket passer? 

 

 

 

 

 

Question I have is, what makes you think that AR can't become a good passer? When he played, he completed around 60% of his passes, had some tight window completions as well + he has great arm strength. If he plays similar to Lamar or Cam, we could win a SB. Lamar hasn't won a SB but has won an MVP and has a playoff win, Cam has also won an MVP and went to a SB.

[NorthernColt]

There isn't much debate. Stroud is HIM. I'll eat crow, hes way better then I thought he would be. But I do think Richardson could still pass him as the best, definitely better then the other 2.

[Solid84]

31 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

 

It matters because passing is king in the NFL, period. 

 

Elite passing separates the contenders from the pretenders. 

 

Having an elite QB that can run would be awesome. Having a running QB (an athletic player but mediocre to poor passer) is less than ideal; these players don't usually lead their teams to the top consistently. 

 

And, yes, I'm one of those people that want a QB that excels at passing, or a pocket passer. 

 

It's not a coincidence that most (all?) of the past super bowl winners in the last 20 years have had QBs that are elite passers. I don't remember any running QBs – which, again, are QBs that produce mostly with their athleticism as opposed to their passing, which is usually mediocre to poor) winning the super bowl. 

 

As a passer, Richardson didn't have very great stats, and he has proven to be quite fragile so far, which erases his efficacy as a runner. And if his injuries are not just  simply bad luck, his fragility erases the advantage of his athleticism. 

 

If you had a choice, would you choose a running QB or a pocket passer? 

 

 

 

 

 

But why does it matter whether or not AR is the bestest pocket passer ever if he just wins?

 

Also it’s too early to rule him out as a passer. Waaay to early. 
 

“But his accuracy!” - Andrew Luck’s first year in college: 56.3%. First NFL season: 54.1%. Andrew Luck had a CAREER accuracy of 60.8. 

AR has played, what, 16? 17? Total games of football. How about we give him more than 3 games in the NFL before we rule him out as a passer?

[Tsarquise]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

But why does it matter whether or not AR is the bestest pocket passer ever if he just wins?

 

Also it’s too early to rule him out as a passer. Waaay to early. 
 

“But his accuracy!” - Andrew Luck’s first year in college: 56.3%. First NFL season: 54.1%. Andrew Luck had a CAREER accuracy of 60.8. 

AR has played, what, 16? 17? Total games of football. How about we give him more than 3 games in the NFL before we rule him out as a passer?

I wasn't ruling him out, I have only stated that: SO FAR, it doesn't look good, and there really isn't anything to suggest he is going to be a great passer. Of course it is super early and he is very young, so he could absolutely improve, and I'm a Colts fan, so I hope he is the best player of all time. I just don't quite understand  how so many talk as if we have a sure thing QB. 

 

Him playing only 16 games of football is not a good thing. It is only more reason not to trust that he is the answer; It doesn't make me want to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is in the NFL; most QBs drafted high have a good amount of experience.  If AR was an accomplished college QB it would be easier to give them the benefit of the doubt. 

 

I never said he has to be the greatest passer of all time, but I know you were being facetious. 

 

AR doesn't just win. He lost both games he started. And I don't think he was "just winning" in college either. (Could be wrong). Of course if he just wins, then it wouldn't matter, but that's not the case, cause teams that just win usually have elite passers. 

 

Andrew Luck also had things to improve upon, one of which was his completion percentage. 

 

But like I asked before, if you had a choice between a pocket passer and a running QB with the number 1 pick, which would you choose? 

[Smonroe]

29 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

But why does it matter whether or not AR is the bestest pocket passer ever if he just wins?

 

Also it’s too early to rule him out as a passer. Waaay to early. 
 

“But his accuracy!” - Andrew Luck’s first year in college: 56.3%. First NFL season: 54.1%. Andrew Luck had a CAREER accuracy of 60.8. 

AR has played, what, 16? 17? Total games of football. How about we give him more than 3 games in the NFL before we rule him out as a passer?

My only concern about AR is his longevity.  I think his accuracy is good and will get better.  But it’s all moot if he’s not available for games.  
 

Lamar has played 12 games the last two years.  We need AR to be a mobile QB, not a running QB.  

[Solid84]

28 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

I wasn't ruling him out, I have only stated that: SO FAR, it doesn't look good, and there really isn't anything to suggest he is going to be a great passer. Of course it is super early and he is very young, so he could absolutely improve, and I'm a Colts fan, so I hope he is the best player of all time. I just don't quite understand  how so many talk as if we have a sure thing QB. 

 

Him playing only 16 games of football is not a good thing. It is only more reason not to trust that he is the answer; It doesn't make me want to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is in the NFL; most QBs drafted high have a good amount of experience.  If AR was an accomplished college QB it would be easier to give them the benefit of the doubt. 

 

I never said he has to be the greatest passer of all time, but I know you were being facetious. 

 

AR doesn't just win. He lost both games he started. And I don't think he was "just winning" in college either. (Could be wrong). Of course if he just wins, then it wouldn't matter, but that's not the case, cause teams that just win usually have elite passers. 

 

Andrew Luck also had things to improve upon, one of which was his completion percentage. 

 

But like I asked before, if you had a choice between a pocket passer and a running QB with the number 1 pick, which would you choose? 

Do you think Steichen wants AR to be a run-first player or a pass-first player?

 

One of the things AR was credited with coming out of college was that he played to pass first, scrambled to pass and only ran when it was the last option. 
 

I personally believe AR will be pass-first. He’ll have some designed runs, but his nature isn’t to bail and run immediately - he WANTS to pass. 
 

With “just wins” I ment in the long run. If he just wins when he’s up to speed it shouldn’t matter how he does it. 
 

In college AR had crappy WRs and no QB coach. He had to get it done himself and he still went 6-6 or something. 
 

And to your question. First off it depends on what you mean with running QB? Run-first or pass-first? I don’t want a QB who immediately takes off after the first read. Second I’d pick the one I think had the highest ceiling, who fit with my coaching staff and the scheme I’d want to run. Then I’d build around his strengths. 
 

Edit: And I still disagree with you statement that he hasn’t shown anything. I also don’t think anyone has called him a “sure thing”.

[Solid84]

27 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

My only concern about AR is his longevity.  I think his accuracy is good and will get better.  But it’s all moot if he’s not available for games.  
 

Lamar has played 12 games the last two years.  We need AR to be a mobile QB, not a running QB.  

He’s had one “real” injury - his shoulder. I think if you counted them up there’d be 50 players across the league who’s had concussions this season and we’re just over half-way. 
 

Pocket passers get injured too. Frequently. I think it’s way too early to call him injury prone or say he’s made of glass as some have.