Training Camp Day 9 8/8

[smittywerb]

I think having AR going back and forth with 1s and 2s is throwing him off because he can’t build the chemistry and consistency with the players but I also think it’s a good thing because it also gets him reps and show him everything isn’t going to be the same.  In a sense, it’s showing he has to make the throws and plays instead of relying on the talent we have

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

I think having AR going back and forth with 1s and 2s is throwing him off because he can’t build the chemistry and consistency with the players but I also think it’s a good thing because it also gets him reps and show him everything isn’t going to be the same.  In a sense, it’s showing he has to make the throws and plays instead of relying on the talent we have

I kind of agree with this. Also the 2’s just aren’t as good as the 1’s.  I think he earned going with the ones today after the last two days. Let him continue to build. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is getting more interesting. Now it does look like they are thinking of trading Taylor.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Apparently Richardson wasn’t as bad as media made it out to be today. 
 

 

[Zoltan]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's kind of the under reported element in all of this. What's actually up with his ankle? If not for the contract dispute, it would be very concerning that he's still not ready to practice after six months, when the usual recover time after his procedure is (presumably) 4-6 weeks. The team thought he was/should be ready at the start of camp, then he gets put on PUP. 

 

I've been assuming all along that this is part of his strategy to avoid being fined for not practicing. That could still be true.

 

But let's just say that he's starting to accept that his best move is to have a great season, and either the Colts start negotiating during the season, or it strengthens his value going into free agency. He could now be doing whatever he can to make sure his ankle is ready to go. And again, that's concerning, because he should have been ready by now. So is there something unusual happening with the ankle? And is that why he didn't want to come in for a physical before camp?

 

This makes me respect the Colts approach even more. Can't sign a RB to a big, second contract when you don't even have evidence that he's healthy. Just something else that makes me question what Taylor and his side have been doing all offseason. 

I always thought it was his strategy of avoiding fines but it’s either a real injury (which is not good that his ankle is this bad) or he may be going with the strategy of either give me a contract extension or I’ll be injured all season and you’ll have to put me on IR because the back was fake so he won’t be going on NFI list. If they sign Hunt then i won’t be expecting Taylor anytime soon. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

My guess is this, he knows his ankle is toast to start this season, so he tries to hide it and tries for an extension with lots of guaranteed monies , then he was planning on going to IR and cashing in on his guaranteed monies. Which I believe he has very little of on a rookie contract 

Somethings up, I believe that is a very strong possibility...

[hoosierhawk]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's kind of the under reported element in all of this. What's actually up with his ankle? If not for the contract dispute, it would be very concerning that he's still not ready to practice after six months, when the usual recover time after his procedure is (presumably) 4-6 weeks. The team thought he was/should be ready at the start of camp, then he gets put on PUP. 

 

I've been assuming all along that this is part of his strategy to avoid being fined for not practicing. That could still be true.

 

But let's just say that he's starting to accept that his best move is to have a great season, and either the Colts start negotiating during the season, or it strengthens his value going into free agency. He could now be doing whatever he can to make sure his ankle is ready to go. And again, that's concerning, because he should have been ready by now. So is there something unusual happening with the ankle? And is that why he didn't want to come in for a physical before camp?

 

This makes me respect the Colts approach even more. Can't sign a RB to a big, second contract when you don't even have evidence that he's healthy. Just something else that makes me question what Taylor and his side have been doing all offseason. 

Agree with all you said but as I have mentioned a few times in the week or so why not negotiate an incentive on top of his present contract based on performance this year. Like X $s for X amount of yards from scrimmage and X $s for x amount of TDs. That is a win-win for both sides. If he has a  great year Colts win and Taylor gets a nice contract next year. If he gets hurt or can't go because of his ankle Colts don't pay more than his existing contract and the decision for his future comes after the season.

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Agree with all you said but as I have mentioned a few times in the week or so why not negotiate an incentive on top of his present contract based on performance this year. Like X $s for X amount of yards from scrimmage and X $s for x amount of TDs. That is a win-win for both sides. If he has a  great year Colts win and Taylor gets a nice contract next year. If he gets hurt or can't go because of his ankle Colts don't pay more than his existing contract and the decision for his future comes after the season.

 

I don't think that's what he wants. If I were him, I'd want a typical structure, multi year extension. Because if I'm going to play and try to reach incentives in 2023, then I'm risking my future earning potential, so let's lock in those future earnings right now.

 

And from a negotiation standpoint, if I'm the team, I'm not budging before he gets back on the field. I personally don't think it's the best use of cap resources, but the Colts have indicated a willingness to negotiate a new contract during the season, if JT is healthy and shows to be a good fit for the offense. But he has to produce before I'd be willing to talk about it.

[hoosierhawk]

53 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think that's what he wants. If I were him, I'd want a typical structure, multi year extension. Because if I'm going to play and try to reach incentives in 2023, then I'm risking my future earning potential, so let's lock in those future earnings right now.

 

And from a negotiation standpoint, if I'm the team, I'm not budging before he gets back on the field. I personally don't think it's the best use of cap resources, but the Colts have indicated a willingness to negotiate a new contract during the season, if JT is healthy and shows to be a good fit for the offense. But he has to produce before I'd be willing to talk about it.

I agree. If he is not willing to do this than goodbye JT. However, I think he is one of the best RBs in the league so it's not a huge gamble for the Colts. If he performs he contributes to ARs development, if he doesn't, goodbye and the Colts are out nothing more.

[CR91]

This is ridiculous

 

 

[Farns01]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

My guess is this, he knows his ankle is toast to start this season, so he tries to hide it and tries for an extension with lots of guaranteed monies , then he was planning on going to IR and cashing in on his guaranteed monies. Which I believe he has very little of on a rookie contract 

This gives me flashbacks to the Trev Alberts situation.  Balls out last half of last year of rookie contract and signs a new big contract and retires during training camp.

[Hawkeyecolt]

Honestly, I’m glad he’s away from camp. Right now he’s just a distraction.  Come back when he’s ready to play and contribute.   

[CR91]

AR is ridiculous

 

 

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, Farns01 said:

This gives me flashbacks to the Trev Alberts situation.  Balls out last half of last year of rookie contract and signs a new big contract and retires during training camp.

Trev Alberts didn't get a second contract.   He retired after 3 injury plaged seasons

[CR91]

 

[throwing BBZ]

 

 Taylor has no guaranteed money coming to him.

 LaDainian Tomlinson suggests that it is in his best interest to not return to the field without a new deal. Even if it means sitting out the season. Tomlinson believes the final resolution would favor Taylor. 

 

 This Hunt thing, along with Taylor leaving, suggests our front office sees this coming?

 

  Learning about the $$$$$

 

Minimum “down” contracts

For many NFL players, it is in their contract where they have a “split salary” which comes into play if they are placed on IR. Unless there is a provision where the player receives their full pay, something often included in contracts for higher draft picks and salaries significantly above the league minimum, a player is not paid at a full rate while on IR. This is also considered their “down” salary. For 2023, the “down” salaries are as follows:

2023 Years of service.

0: $450,000
1: $475,000
2: $500,000
3: $525,000
4-6: $550,000
7+: $600,000

 

 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Taylor has no guaranteed money coming to him.

 LaDainian Tomlinson suggests that it is in his best interest to not return to the field without a new deal. Even if it means sitting out the season. Tomlinson believes the final resolution would favor Taylor. 

 

 This Hunt thing, along with Taylor leaving, suggests our front office sees this coming?

 

  Learning about the $$$$$

 

Minimum “down” contracts

For many NFL players, it is in their contract where they have a “split salary” which comes into play if they are placed on IR. Unless there is a provision where the player receives their full pay, something often included in contracts for higher draft picks and salaries significantly above the league minimum, a player is not paid at a full rate while on IR. This is also considered their “down” salary. For 2023, the “down” salaries are as follows:

2023 Years of service.

0: $450,000
1: $475,000
2: $500,000
3: $525,000
4-6: $550,000
7+: $600,000

 

 

Sitting out will cost him 250k a week plus fines.   I don't see him doing that

[stitches]

43 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Sitting out will cost him 250k a week plus fines.   I don't see him doing that

Not if he pretends to be injured. I honestly don't know what the Colts can do about it. They can send him to the doctors and all their scans can say "he should be good to go", but if he says his ankle still hurts I have no idea what we can do to make him play... 

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Not if he pretends to be injured. I honestly don't know what the Colts can do about it. They can send him to the doctors and all their scans can say "he should be good to go", but if he says his ankle still hurts I have no idea what we can do to make him play... 

If they put him on IR he will make a small fraction of his 4 million.   I don't think he wants that either

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If they put him on IR he will make a small fraction of his 4 million.   I don't think he wants that either

Oh is that true? I didn't know. I thought his salary is guaranteed if he's injured ...

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Oh is that true? I didn't know. I thought his salary is guaranteed if he's injured ...

I was going by what @throwing BBZ posy said.   I guess it depends on the language in his contract.   So I'm not sure

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I was going by what @throwing BBZ posy said.   I guess it depends on the language in his contract.   So I'm not sure

@Superman you have any idea under what circumstances is his money guaranteed? I know the Colts can fine him if he's healthy and refuses to play, but what if he just says "well, my ankle still hurts, I'm not playing" ? 

[Superman]

35 minutes ago, stitches said:

@Superman you have any idea under what circumstances is his money guaranteed? I know the Colts can fine him if he's healthy and refuses to play, but what if he just says "well, my ankle still hurts, I'm not playing" ? 

 

Sometimes a contract has an injury split, where a player's salary is reduced if he's on IR. Don't know if that's the case with JT's contract.

 

But based on what I see on Spotrac, he has no guaranteed money remaining. Once we get to Week 1, his 2023 salary will be guaranteed. However, he can't be released without passing a physical, and he's presently on PUP so that's not happening. And if his ankle continues to be a "problem" through Week 1, then he won't be released. So in practice, we can expect his $4.3m for 2023 to be guaranteed. Another option would be for the team to place him on IR, then negotiate an injury settlement and release him, in which case he'd become a free agent.

 

If the Colts decided to release him and claim he was manipulating his injury status, it probably wouldn't fly with the NFL Management Council. There would probably be a grievance, and then a settlement at some point in the future.

 

I don't see any of this actually happening.

[RollerColt]

9 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

That release... so good to see!