Jim Irsay “we’ll see” on Shaq Leonard (MERGE)

[2006Coltsbestever]

31 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

So reports on his demise here might be premature?  Let me get my shocked face…

Yeah we need a shock face, we have a confused and sad face. I knew something was missing from this site  

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

8 forced fumbles 4 interceptions and played all 16 games .  

That’s seems a rather simplistic eval lol.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Nickster said:

That’s seems a rather simplistic eval lol.

Not when comparing to his other seasons.   He had ridiculously productive season,  certainly not the "he got paid and laid down" season

[Nickster]

13 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Not when comparing to his other seasons.   He had ridiculously productive season,  certainly not the "he got paid and laid down" season

Yeah he created a lot of turnovers no doubt.  That ball punching was really unreal.  But he wasn’t near as good as previous seasons with all the other skills his athleticism used to highlight.  
 

I personally think the ball punching was a novelty that other guys were doing and the RBs hadn’t adjust to yet, and this Shaq was clearly slower and less impactful when he wasn’t punching balls.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yeah he created a lot of turnovers no doubt.  That ball punching was really unreal.  But he wasn’t near as good as previous seasons with all the other skills his athleticism used to highlight.  
 

I personally think the ball punching was a novelty that other guys were doing and the RBs hadn’t adjust to yet, and this Shaq was clearly slower and less impactful when he wasn’t punching balls.

 

 

To me Leonard is just a game changer, those players are rare. He played in 1 game last year and got an INT that nearly put the game away. The game he played he looked 50% healthy and still created a turnover. I want players like that on my team all day. 

 

By the way he had more combo tackles in 2021 than he even had in 2019. 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To me Leonard is just a game changer, those players are rare. He played in 1 game last year and got an INT that nearly put the game away The game he played he looked 50% healthy and still created a turnover. I want players like that on my team all day. 

 

By the way he had more combo tackles in 2021 than he even had in 2019. 

Yeah sure but if you look at Shaqs career you’ll see the TOS were anomalous and unlikely to happen again.

 

I personally would prefer a LB that covers better at half the price.

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To me, that makes his season even more impressive. He did most of that playing with injury. He also had 122 combo tackles in 2021 which ranked high in the league not too far off from his 2020 total of 132. Why should Leonard be penalized for having a knack of punching the ball out in a fans eyes? I would think any fan would love that. I would love to have a guy like that on my team. The guy creates turnovers which going back to the 2000 season, the team that wins the turnover battle wins 80% of their games.

You guys keep bringing up stats for things that have just recently happened that you should have watched and then filed away as fact.  Leonard had a bum ankle that year and it kept him from all around great LBer play, where the peanut punch created turnovers. 

 

I said that his high level of accolades was created by peanut punches and not his all around game that year.  How can you reasonably twist that into me saying that I'm penalizing him for punching the ball out?  The way you spun that is absurd.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

You guys keep bringing up stats for things that have just recently happened that you should have watched and then filed away as fact.  Leonard had a bum ankle that year and it kept him from all around great LBer play, where the peanut punch created turnovers. 

 

I said that his high level of accolades was created by peanut punches and not his all around game that year.  How can you reasonably twist that into me saying that I'm penalizing him for punching the ball out?  The way you spun that is absurd.

I really didn't spin anything. You are mainly only giving credit to Leonard  because of a technique he uses to create turnovers. If it was that easy doing what he does, why doesn’t the whole league do it? It is like you are giving him a backhanded compliment. Saying he is only good because of peanut punching. 

 

That would be about like me saying, Steph Curry is only great because he can hit 30 foot shots. When there is more to his game in reality. 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That would be about like me saying, Steph Curry is only great because he can hit 30 foot shots. When there is more to his game in reality. 

 No it isnt.  That’s silly.  Leonard wasn’t the only guy using that technique either.  Ball carriers have adjusted to it and it’s terrible tackling technique.

 

it was a wily vet old church league player move by Shaq and I respect the Hell out of that.  He knew he was diminished and figured out how to stay impactful, but it doesn’t make me feel all warm and fuzzy that this tiny off the ball LB had to resort to bad tackling technique to be impactful.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 No it isnt.  That’s silly.  Leonard wasn’t the only guy using that technique either.  Ball carriers have adjusted to it and it’s terrible tackling technique.

 

it was a wily vet old church league player move by Shaq and I respect the Hell out of that.  He knew he was diminished and figured out how to stay impactful, but it doesn’t make me feel all warm and fuzzy that this tiny off the ball LB had to resort to bad tackling technique to be impactful.

"Leonard wasn't the only guy using that technique either". I agree but he was the best at it. 

 

"Ball Carriers have adjusted to it". They never adjusted to Leonard doing it. If Leonard plays in 2023, we will find out how much they have adjusted to Leonard using it. He was very effective in 2021 with it so it isn't like he was doing this a decade ago and runners now never fumble when this technique is used.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I really didn't spin anything. You are mainly only giving credit to Leonard  because of a technique he uses to create turnovers. If it was that easy doing what he does, why doesn’t the whole league do it? It is like you are giving him a backhanded compliment. Saying he is only good because of peanut punching. 

 

That would be about like me saying, Steph Curry is only great because he can hit 30 foot shots. When there is more to his game in reality. 

The question was about 2021 being Leonard's best year as a LBer, not whether or not he was any good.   

 

If y'all would have taken a moment to remember that he played on a bum ankle all of 2021 before you reactively spouted off disagreeing with Nick's comment, you wouldn't be in this corner you are in now. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The question was about 2021 being Leonard's best year as a LBer, not whether or not he was any good.   

 

If y'all would have taken a moment to remember that he played on a bum ankle all of 2021 before you reactively spouted off disagreeing with Nick's comment, you wouldn't be in this corner you are in now. 

"Wouldn't be in this corner you are in now". That quote made my whole day, thanks Doug. 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

"Wouldn't be in this corner you are in now". That quote made my whole day, thanks Doug. 

Its okay, you can still get out of your wrong opined corner by simply admitting that you forgot Leonard was hobbled by a bum ankle in 2021.    I'll assume that you now remember but are too embarrassed by the position you took to admit it.

[jvan1973]

39 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The question was about 2021 being Leonard's best year as a LBer, not whether or not he was any good.   

 

If y'all would have taken a moment to remember that he played on a bum ankle all of 2021 before you reactively spouted off disagreeing with Nick's comment, you wouldn't be in this corner you are in now. 

The only season he played all 16 games.   I don't think he was nearly as hobbled as you claim. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Its okay, you can still get out of your wrong opined corner by simply admitting that you forgot Leonard was hobbled by a bum ankle in 2021.    I'll assume that you now remember but are too embarrassed by the position you took to admit it.

I have already posted that, that is what made his season even more impressive, he was playing injured and still dominated by creating Turnovers and he still had 122 combo tackles. 

 

You made my point even better  .

[Superman]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

If y'all would have taken a moment to remember that he played on a bum ankle all of 2021 before you reactively spouted off disagreeing with Nick's comment, you wouldn't be in this corner you are in now. 

 

I mean, you're right that he was hurt in 2021, basically playing on one leg. He had an ankle operation right before camp, and IMO he never looked 100% that season. And he was still our best defensive playmaker, and first team All Pro.

 

And to the point, that was the season right after he signed his new contract. So the idea that he got paid and then started coasting doesn't hold up to scrutiny. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I mean, you're right that he was hurt in 2021, basically playing on one leg. He had an ankle operation right before camp, and IMO he never looked 100% that season. And he was still our best defensive playmaker, and first team All Pro.

 

And to the point, that was the season right after he signed his new contract. So the idea that he got paid and then started coasting doesn't hold up to scrutiny. 

Exactly, you should drop the Mic on that one - that has been my main point the whole time, guy was playing injured and still dominated after he got paid. Created 12 Turnovers, 122 combo tackles, 1st team all-pro. What else is there?

[jvan1973]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I mean, you're right that he was hurt in 2021, basically playing on one leg. He had an ankle operation right before camp, and IMO he never looked 100% that season. And he was still our best defensive playmaker, and first team All Pro.

 

And to the point, that was the season right after he signed his new contract. So the idea that he got paid and then started coasting doesn't hold up to scrutiny. 

Not to mention he also played in the pro bowl and had 3 tackles and an interception..  Seems to me if he was so "hobbled" he wouldn't have played in that game. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

and IMO he never looked 100% that season

Right.  Many of us know this.  Others don't remember it.   I think Nick is right, 2021 was not Leonard's best season despite the accolades from others.

 

I didn't say anything about Leonard coasting.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I didn't say anything about Leonard coasting.

 

Do you recognize that the coasting assertion is where this line of reasoning originated?

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Do you recognize that the coasting assertion is where this line of reasoning originated?

Yes.  That was Nick's assertion.  The counter to that was somebody raising the idea that 2021, that year after the resigning the contract, was his best season.  Nick said no, and I agreed with Nick saying that 2021 was not Leonard's best season.

 

The convo about Leonard coasting is not the point that I jumped in. 

 

However, I will say, that the observation about the name change from Darius to Shaq raised by another, the strong anti Corporate vax stance, and the Luck like recurring injury and rehab cycle could certainly have piqued an attitude change somewhere between 2020 and 2023.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  That was Nick's assertion.  The counter to that was somebody raising the idea that 2021, that year after the resigning the contract, was his best season.  Nick said no, and I agreed with Nick saying that 2021 was not Leonard's best season.

 

The convo about Leonard coasting is not the point that I jumped in. 

 

I would say that 2021 doesn't have to be Leonard's "best season" for the counter argument to be legit. Just the fact that he was available for 16 games, apparently played through injury, and was named All Pro should be enough to push back against the idea that he got paid and then coasted. Splitting hairs over whether it was his best season or not seems irrelevant.

 

Quote

However, I will say, that the observation about the name change from Darius to Shaq raised by another, the strong anti Corporate vax stance, and the Luck like recurring injury and rehab cycle could certainly have piqued an attitude change somewhere between 2020 and 2023.

 

I'm not really interested in the theory. The idea that a person's thinking, ideas, motivations might change between the ages of 23 and 28, especially between 2020 and 2023, seems pretty obvious.

 

I will say that Andrew Luck is not the first or only player to have a rough couple of years with injury. We don't need to freak out about a surprise retirement every time a player struggles to get back to 100%.

[DougDew]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I would say that 2021 doesn't have to be Leonard's "best season" for the counter argument to be legit. Just the fact that he was available for 16 games, apparently played through injury, and was named All Pro should be enough to push back against the idea that he got paid and then coasted. Splitting hairs over whether it was his best season or not seems irrelevant.

 

 

I'm not really interested in the theory. The idea that a person's thinking, ideas, motivations might change between the ages of 23 and 28, especially between 2020 and 2023, seems pretty obvious.

 

I will say that Andrew Luck is not the first or only player to have a rough couple of years with injury. We don't need to freak out about a surprise retirement every time a player struggles to get back to 100%.

Sure.  I would think that the folks who defend Luck's retirement by supporting the notion he quit due to the constant nagging injury cycle would also be the ones who might question if Leonard is still motivated, since his injuries are not unlike Luck's and he has some other things apparently being reevaluated.  Oddly, they seem to be the folks who think that Leonard would never do such a thing.

 

I say if the injury cycle was a legitimate reason for Luck, then why is there no reason to think that Leonard couldn't do the same thing.  Except after he secures the money of course, since he can't be sure that Jimmy puts him on the same pedestal as Luck and honors the contract.

[King Colt]

I would set the odds at 70/30 that he does not finish the season. From what I read his left leg is not normal related to his back nerve surgery. Nobody here knows the details of the nerve but repeated surgery for nerves in the back is seldom positive and in many cases the issue worsens. Doctors can't fix everything. Very sad indeed.

[BlackTiger]

Im worried that he wont be able to live up to his contract.  the cap hit is about 20 mil per year for the next 4 years

 

Thats a high standard and the team could have a tough decision over cutting him or paying him if hes average.  It would take a lot of production for a fully healthy will LB to live up to that

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Sure.  I would think that the folks who defend Luck's retirement by supporting the notion he quit due to the constant nagging injury cycle would also be the ones who might question if Leonard is still motivated, since his injuries are not unlike Luck's and he has some other things apparently being reevaluated.  Oddly, they seem to be the folks who think that Leonard would never do such a thing.

 

I say if the injury cycle was a legitimate reason for Luck, then why is there no reason to think that Leonard couldn't do the same thing.  Except after he secures the money of course, since he can't be sure that Jimmy puts him on the same pedestal as Luck and honors the contract.

 

I think you're mischaracterizing "folks" here. I also don't think it's necessary to defend Luck's retirement. It was his choice to make, whether it was related to injury, or a lack of desire, or whatever else. 

 

Whether Leonard would do something similar or not is very speculative. My point is that treating Luck like a legal precedent is going overboard. Players have gone through similar injury/rehab cycles before, without deciding to retire suddenly. If you see parallels between Luck and Leonard and their injury/rehab cycles, that doesn't mean Leonard is going to do the same thing Luck did.

 

I wouldn't say Leonard would never do what Luck did. I don't think anyone else is suggesting that, either.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think you're mischaracterizing "folks" here. I also don't think it's necessary to defend Luck's retirement. It was his choice to make, whether it was related to injury, or a lack of desire, or whatever else. 

 

Whether Leonard would do something similar or not is very speculative. My point is that treating Luck like a legal precedent is going overboard. Players have gone through similar injury/rehab cycles before, without deciding to retire suddenly. If you see parallels between Luck and Leonard and their injury/rehab cycles, that doesn't mean Leonard is going to do the same thing Luck did.

 

I wouldn't say Leonard would never do what Luck did. I don't think anyone else is suggesting that, either.

There are several on this board who have been saying that Leonard won't be back, in so many words, and have been saying that for probably over a year.  I'm not in that camp.

 

But when those folks say that, many times a retort comes in that indicates the injury is the sole reason we don't see him getting better, as if they know that Leonard's motivation is as strong as its ever been and its crazy to think otherwise.  That camp just seem to want to defend anything Colts related, like a police force rooting out bad comments.

 

I think its reasonable to think that between the Covid vax stance, the name change, a lingering injury that takes a toll on the mental state of even the best FB players (so they say with luck), not to mention having to switch to MIKE in Gus' system (but I don't know if that's a lot more physical position than WILL under Fuss), that Leonard may have a lot of things going on that takes away from his football playing mental mojo.   And some will point to millions of dollars already collected under the contract.

 

So I'm very critical of those who tell others they have no support for saying that Leonard won't be back.  That's usually when I jump into these type of convos.

[cdgacoltsfan]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

There are several on this board who have been saying that Leonard won't be back, in so many words, and have been saying that for probably over a year.  I'm not in that camp.

 

But when those folks say that, many times a retort comes in that indicates the injury is the sole reason we don't see him getting better, as if they know that Leonard's motivation is as strong as its ever been and its crazy to think otherwise.  That camp just seem to want to defend anything Colts related, like a police force rooting out bad comments.

 

I think its reasonable to think that between the Covid vax stance, the name change, a lingering injury that takes a toll on the mental state of even the best FB players (so they say with luck), not to mention having to switch to MIKE in Gus' system (but I don't know if that's a lot more physical position than WILL under Fuss), that Leonard may have a lot of things going on that takes away from his football playing mental mojo.   And some will point to millions of dollars already collected under the contract.

 

So I'm very critical of those who tell others they have no support for saying that Leonard won't be back.  That's usually when I jump into these type of convos.

Lol...you make zero sense....what's your support indicating he will be back?

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, Nickster said:

 No it isnt.  That’s silly.  Leonard wasn’t the only guy using that technique either.  Ball carriers have adjusted to it and it’s terrible tackling technique.

 

it was a wily vet old church league player move by Shaq and I respect the Hell out of that.  He knew he was diminished and figured out how to stay impactful, but it doesn’t make me feel all warm and fuzzy that this tiny off the ball LB had to resort to bad tackling technique to be impactful.

The Peanut Punch ISNT a tackling technique.   It’s only purpose is to try and force a turnover.  The players coming in behind Leonard are trying for the tackle.   
 

Sometimes Leonard is going for the tackle,  it’s clear and obvious.   And other times he’s going for the forced fumble, it’s clear and obvious.   But they’re not the same, they’re not interchangeable.  
 

And Ballard and the DC’s approve.  They want to force as many turnovers as possible. 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The Peanut Punch ISNT a tackling technique.   It’s only purpose is to try and force a turnover.  The players coming in behind Leonard are trying for the tackle.   
 

Sometimes Leonard is going for the tackle,  it’s clear and obvious.   And other times he’s going for the forced fumble, it’s clear and obvious.   But they’re not the same, they’re not interchangeable.  
 

And Ballard and the DC’s approve.  They want to force as many turnovers as possible. 

The point is that the attempted turnover sacrifices tackling position.  You, I, and Nick know this but its important to point out the tradeoff, which results in missed tackles when the turnover doesn't happen.

 

You can value either one higher, making the tackle or creating the turnover.  But in order for a LBer to have his "best" season, I would want good hard squared up traditional tackles to create the turnovers, and not have the LBer play more risky by choosing one over the other.  I think most DCs teach/prefer the less risky way too.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The point is that the attempted turnover sacrifices tackling position.  You, I, and Nick know this but its important to point out the tradeoff, which results in missed tackles when the turnover doesn't happen.

 

You can value either one higher, making the tackle or creating the turnover.  But in order for a LBer to have his "best" season, I would want good hard squared up traditional tackles to create the turnovers, and not have the LBer play more risky by choosing one over the other.  I think most DCs teach/prefer the less risky way too.

Well…. Leonard has been doing this since his first day as a Colt.   This didn’t start in Y4.   So I think it’s clear and obvious what the Colts prefer. 
 

And the Colts posted a graphic on the front if this website after each of Shaq’s first four seasons.   And they showed how each year was not only the best in the league for LBers, but they were the best in league history for LBers by far. 
Im talking total tackles, turnovers forced,  turnovers recovered and on and on.   So I’m not in the camp that says Y4 was Shaq’s best.   He had four straight great years.  Unprecedented years. 
 

I simply don’t understand anyone criticizing him for his style of play.   It’s clearly team approved.   It doesn’t matter what other teams or DCs prefer. 

[shakedownstreet]

On 7/11/2023 at 6:52 AM, lollygagger8 said:

Highest paid cheerleader in the league

 

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well…. Leonard has been doing this since his first day as a Colt.   This didn’t start in Y4.   So I think it’s clear and obvious what the Colts prefer. 
 

And the Colts posted a graphic on the front if this website after each of Shaq’s first four seasons.   And they showed how each year was not only the best in the league for LBers, but they were the best in league history for LBers by far. 
Im talking total tackles, turnovers forced,  turnovers recovered and on and on.   So I’m not in the camp that says Y4 was Shaq’s best.   He had four straight great years.  Unprecedented years. 
 

I simply don’t understand anyone criticizing him for his style of play.   It’s clearly team approved.   It doesn’t matter what other teams or DCs prefer. 

Well, in the judgment of fans on this forum...which we know the Colts don't care about but is sort of what any Forum is all about.....his style of play is precisely why some don't think he's worth the money.  And his body type, which some question his longevity. 

 

We know that playing WILL in a Flus 43 inflates tackle numbers, so the question is how does Leonard project as MIKE in Gus' system.  Given that Leonard has yet to produce stats for that role, as Bill Polian would say, the past is prologue.

[jvan1973]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, in the judgment of fans on this forum...which we know the Colts don't care about but is sort of what any Forum is all about.....his style of play is precisely why some don't think he's worth the money.  And his body type, which some question his longevity. 

 

We know that playing WILL in a Flus 43 inflates tackle numbers, so the question is how does Leonard project as MIKE in Gus' system.  Given that Leonard has yet to produce stats for that role, as Bill Polian would say, the past is prologue.

Gus thinks leonard projects best at Mike, but hasn't said he must play there.   In fact in the games he did play last year,  he played the weak side.  

[ADnum1]

20 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

Im worried that he wont be able to live up to his contract.  the cap hit is about 20 mil per year for the next 4 years

 

Thats a high standard and the team could have a tough decision over cutting him or paying him if hes average.  It would take a lot of production for a fully healthy will LB to live up to that

The Colts have an out to cut him at the start of the 2024 season.  The dead cap hit is only 8M.

 

To cut him this season would be a dead cap hit of 27M.

 

As Colts fans we can only hope that he gets healthy and can contribute in any way this season.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/darius-leonard-25135/

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well…. Leonard has been doing this since his first day as a Colt.   This didn’t start in Y4.   So I think it’s clear and obvious what the Colts prefer. 
 

And the Colts posted a graphic on the front if this website after each of Shaq’s first four seasons.   And they showed how each year was not only the best in the league for LBers, but they were the best in league history for LBers by far. 
Im talking total tackles, turnovers forced,  turnovers recovered and on and on.   So I’m not in the camp that says Y4 was Shaq’s best.   He had four straight great years.  Unprecedented years. 
 

I simply don’t understand anyone criticizing him for his style of play.   It’s clearly team approved.   It doesn’t matter what other teams or DCs prefer. 

Let me add more.

 

Go back in Colts semi-recent history.  Do you remember before DL we had DQ Jackson and some dude named Morrison?  They were slow ILBs.  The defense constantly got burnt by crossing routes...those guys couldn't cover, moved terribly.

 

So when DL was drafted, I thought it was a great pick (others may not have), because I read where he was the second best "rangy" ILB coming into that draft. ( I think behind Roquan Smith?). 

 

So I was thinking he'd shore up the pass coverage over the middle....you know....rangy.  ( I didn't think about Ballard drafting him for WILL).

 

So when I hear these stats that are more attributable to traditional LBers, like tackles and TOs. it rings a bit hollow to me because I want my undersized rangy LBer to be a stud pass defender, not necessarily a tackling and turnover machine....give me a more traditional stouter body type for that.

 

So in a way, even though DL has been excellent, he's never really fulfilled the role that I thought Ballard was trying to shore up when he got rid of DQ and Morrison.  I will always see DL through that lens, and probably will remain less enthusiastic about him than most

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Let me add more.

 

Go back in Colts semi-recent history.  Do you remember before DL we had DQ Jackson and some dude named Morrison?  They were slow ILBs.  The defense constantly got burnt by crossing routes...those guys couldn't cover, moved terribly.

 

So when DL was drafted, I thought it was a great pick (others may not have), because I read where he was the second best "rangy" ILB coming into that draft. ( I think behind Roquan Smith?). 

 

So I was thinking he'd shore up the pass coverage over the middle....you know....rangy.  ( I didn't think about Ballard drafting him for WILL).

 

So when I hear these stats that are more attributable to traditional LBers, like tackles and TOs. it rings a bit hollow to me because I want my undersized rangy LBer to be a stud pass defender, not necessarily a tackling and turnover machine....give me a more traditional stouter body type for that.

 

So in a way, even though DL has been excellent, he's never really fulfilled the role that I thought Ballard was trying to shore up when he got rid of DQ and Morrison.  I will always see DL through that lens, and probably will remain less enthusiastic about him than most

Well he was tied on the team in interceptions and passes defended in 2021.  So even in his hobbled state, he was able to accomplish more in the pass defense than you could have hoped

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Well he was tied on the team in interceptions and passes defended in 2021.  So even in his hobbled state, he was able to accomplish more in the pass defense than you could have hoped

Ranked high amongst NFL LBers, or just the team?  He was high up the passing rankings of a defense that got burned a whole bunch across the middle by the pass.  I'm not sure how to take that. 

 

Defenses in the NFL have a problem with it, and he wasn't just a plug in replacement for DQ or Morrison because of the scheme change, but its just disappointing that the exceptionally rangy LBer hasn't seemed to improve that weakness much from the Pagano years.  Maybe he should have been playing MIKE all of those years like Gary Brackett...cover the deep ish middle instead of the tackling WILL?

[jvan1973]

18 hours ago, DougDew said:

Ranked high amongst NFL LBers, or just the team?  He was high up the passing rankings of a defense that got burned a whole bunch across the middle by the pass.  I'm not sure how to take that. 

 

Defenses in the NFL have a problem with it, and he wasn't just a plug in replacement for DQ or Morrison because of the scheme change, but its just disappointing that the exceptionally rangy LBer hasn't seemed to improve that weakness much from the Pagano years.  Maybe he should have been playing MIKE all of those years like Gary Brackett...cover the deep ish middle instead of the tackling WILL?

Ranked 1st in the league for linebackers.    Also led the league in forced fumbles with 8.  Second highest was 2