Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Saying I'm not sure is the same thing as you saying we really don't know. 

It’s going to be fun watching colts and Texans next year. If colts trade to one I hope they make the right choice. SM will be miserable if Texans get the better QB.

[Lurk McGurk]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

Welcome to the Colts forum. The folks here are very knowledgeable and respectful of other fans but there is bickering here too. We all try to refrain from that but it happens. 

 

At least one other  Bears fan has been posting here. He wishes to keep Fields as the franchise QB. What are your thoughts on the Bears QB position? My apologies if you already addressed it and I missed it.

 

Anyway, enjoy it.

 

Thank you.  I watch all of the Bears games, and I've seen a lot of progress from Fields this season.  A few games in, I thought we would probably be looking to draft another QB in the 2023 draft.  I had major question marks with Fields about all of the nuances of the position that make QB's great.  Pocket presence, awareness, timing, decision making, all of the subtleties.   Even things like when to slide on a run, or manipulating defenses when approaching the line of scrimmage when scrambling were lacking.  But around mid season literally all of those things started to improve, and consistently.  It's very encouraging.  

 

He needs a lot of improvement as a pocket passer, which is the most important aspect of being a QB, and what leads to the greatest chance of winning championships.  But the improvement in all of those categories gives a realistic hope that he will continue to improve.  The question is going to be how far that goes.  I am in the camp that we should probably stick with him, build the OL, add weapons, and see what he becomes.  But if there was a generational QB in this draft, with those questions still being somewhat up in the air, I would take the Manning/Luck and trade Fields.  I think the Bears would too.

 

I expect Poles to give the QB's in this draft serious consideration.  This is the first time the Bears have drafted #1 overall since 1947 and you wouldn't be doing your job if you don't explore all of the possibilities.  Admittedly I don't watch a lot of college football so I only can rely on what I hear the "experts" say, but I expect the Bears to stick with Fields for at least one more year.  I think they'll have a good idea of what he will be after 2023.

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

No team would give up a top 10 pick for a coach 

 

2 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

The jets gave up a lot.  Multiple picks for parcells including a first rounder but I don’t think it was a top 10. 

 

I don't think it involved a top ten pick but Tampa gave up two first round picks and two second round picks to the Raiders along with several million dollars to trade for Gruden.

 

[NFLfan]

On 1/18/2023 at 12:22 AM, Lurk McGurk said:

I expect Poles to give the QB's in this draft serious consideration.  This is the first time the Bears have drafted #1 overall since 1947 and you wouldn't be doing your job if you don't explore all of the possibilities.  Admittedly I don't watch a lot of college football so I only can rely on what I hear the "experts" say, but I expect the Bears to stick with Fields for at least one more year.  I think they'll have a good idea of what he will be after 2023.

 

I liked Fields in college. I believe Poles needs to build around him to give Fields the best chance to succeed. Improve the OL. Who is his QB coach?

 

Definitely stick with him. I am not a fan of changing QBs every two to three years.

 

[NFLfan]

@Behr-34 you have a fellow Bears fan here. 

[Lurk McGurk]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I liked Fields in college. I believe Poles needs to build around him for to give Fields the best chance to succeed. Improve the OL. Who is his QB coach?

 

Definitely stick with him. I am not a fan of changing QBs every two to three years.

 

Poles was an offensive lineman.  I fully expect with the Bears having $118M in cap space and the #1 pick that they will put a lot of resources in getting that right.  I do think there's a good chance we see Fields have a breakout season if that's the case.  The only reason I would even consider what to do is because it's not often you sit at the top of the draft and have all of your options open.

 

His QB coach is Andrew Janocko, but you don't hear him talked about much.  I believe most of the work getting done with Justin is with the OC, Luke Getsy.  There were some good things happening with Getsy and also some questionable stuff, but he was a 1st year OC and didn't have the best personnel to utilize.  I think he's a good one.  We're going to learn a lot about Fields, Eberflus, and Getsy this coming season I would think.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Watching a  highlight video of young. He is called mahomes in here a time or two. He does look like a mini mahomes. Teams are just going to have to decide if they can get over his size.

[NFLfan]

16 minutes ago, Lurk McGurk said:

Poles was an offensive lineman.  I fully expect with the Bears having $118M in cap space and the #1 pick that they will put a lot of resources in getting that right.  I do think there's a good chance we see Fields have a breakout season if that's the case.  The only reason I would even consider what to do is because it's not often you sit at the top of the draft and have all of your options open.

 

His QB coach is Andrew Janocko, but you don't hear him talked about much.  I believe most of the work getting done with Justin is with the OC, Luke Getsy.  There were some good things happening with Getsy and also some questionable stuff, but he was a 1st year OC and didn't have the best personnel to utilize.  I think he's a good one.  We're going to learn a lot about Fields, Eberflus, and Getsy this coming season I would think.

 

Thanks. Are you interested in trading out of that #1 spot and swapping first round picks with the Colts? Are Colts fans interested?

 

I don't think I would want to give up draft picks to move up. I don't see Ballard doing it unless Irsay tells him to. 

[danlhart87]

19 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Watching a  highlight video of young. He is called mahomes in here a time or two. He does look like a mini mahomes. Teams are just going to have to decide if they can get over his size.

I firmly believe he has the skills and talent to overcome size concerns.

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

Thanks. Are you interested in trading out of that #1 spot and swapping first round picks with the Colts? Are Colts fans interested?

 

I don't think I would want to give up draft picks to move up. I don't see Ballard doing it unless Irsay tells him to. 

I am not interested in doing that. I would trade up to 3 for QB2 or QB3 though.

[Lurk McGurk]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

Thanks. Are you interested in trading out of that #1 spot and swapping first round picks with the Colts? Are Colts fans interested?

 

I don't think I would want to give up draft picks to move up. I don't see Ballard doing it unless Irsay tells him to. 

Definitely!   I appear to be a lot more interested in making that trade than Colts fans are.  I think #4 is the best spot for the Bears, considering they still likely get Anderson/Carter (I suspect they would prefer Carter).  I still want a trade down even if it ends up being farther back though.  I think someone will make a good offer.  I wouldn't mind having a shot at Marvin Harrison Jr next year like you all either.

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, Lurk McGurk said:

Definitely!   I appear to be a lot more interested in making that trade than Colts fans are.  I think #4 is the best spot for the Bears, considering they still likely get Anderson/Carter (I suspect they would prefer Carter).  I still want a trade down even if it ends up being farther back though.  I think someone will make a good offer.  I wouldn't mind having a shot at Marvin Harrison Jr next year like you all either.

I am in the group that would love to trade with the Bears. I would rather have my pick of all the QBs vs seeing who falls to me, the hard part is figuring out a trade that both teams think is acceptable. I think something like:

 

Colts give: #4 this year, Buckner, Moore, this years 2nd or 3rd round, and Next years 2nd round. My thinking is that Buckner offsets a 1st rounder and gives the Bears a proven player in a position of need, and knowing Eberflus he likes his guys (AQM is a great example of this) which Moore also thrived as his nickel corner. This way it kind of is giving 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

[csmopar]

10 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Just going by what Payton said. He said it would be a mid to late round first. That’s what panthers have. Could be future first but what if they are bad and that ends up high. They can’t give up a future first either then to move up if it costs them a future first for Payton.

It would be dumb to give up the farm when you have the 2nd pick.

It’s Houston they’ve done dumb moves before

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, Zoltan said:

I am in the group that would love to trade with the Bears. I would rather have my pick of all the QBs vs seeing who falls to me, the hard part is figuring out a trade that both teams think is acceptable. I think something like:

 

Colts give: #4 this year, Buckner, Moore, this years 2nd or 3rd round, and Next years 2nd round. My thinking is that Buckner offsets a 1st rounder and gives the Bears a proven player in a position of need, and knowing Eberflus he likes his guys (AQM is a great example of this) which Moore also thrived as his nickel corner. This way it kind of is giving 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

Way way too high

[JColts72]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Way way too high

I would give a Pitman instead of Buckner. Colts can just stay at 4. 

[chad72]

5 hours ago, Zoltan said:

I am in the group that would love to trade with the Bears. I would rather have my pick of all the QBs vs seeing who falls to me, the hard part is figuring out a trade that both teams think is acceptable. I think something like:

 

Colts give: #4 this year, Buckner, Moore, this years 2nd or 3rd round, and Next years 2nd round. My thinking is that Buckner offsets a 1st rounder and gives the Bears a proven player in a position of need, and knowing Eberflus he likes his guys (AQM is a great example of this) which Moore also thrived as his nickel corner. This way it kind of is giving 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

The more I think of this, a first rounder next year is not guaranteed to be as good as a seasoned vet like Buckner, especially when we are thin at DL. I know giving up players is the only way to avoid giving up a future 1st but what’s to say that a future 2nd or current 2nd won’t be a difference maker or solid player drafted? 
 

It will be 2 steps forward 3 steps backwards when you give up a stud player like Buckner. Plus no one will value Buckner as a high first rounder like he was in 2020 with more mileage. 49ers turned around and drafted Javon Kinlaw to replace Buckner but since they had Armstead and kept adding DL talent, their lack of ROI for the Buckner first rounder they used for drafting didn’t matter but as a pure return, they didn’t do much with it. Kinlaw hasn’t graded more than a 54 on pff in all of his 3 years.

Bottom line, a stud bird in hand like Buckner better than 2 in the bush. Kenny Moore however will fetch a Day 3 pick, like 5th or 6th, tops. 
 

Just give the future 1st and haggle over the rest. They should be happy with the future 1st and current 3rd tops, and if not, we stand pat. A good negotiation is where both parties are benefiting but not completely happy. The above would be such a case.
 

Teams will be more than willing to call the Bears bluff eventually if they ask for too much.

[csmopar]

25 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

I would give a Pitman instead of Buckner. Colts can just stay at 4. 

Neither. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

I firmly believe he has the skills and talent to overcome size concerns.

I am not interested in doing that. I would trade up to 3 for QB2 or QB3 though.

He could be as special and skilled as anyone but if he snaps in half from a couple hits it won’t matter.

[BeanDiasucci]

54 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

I would give a Pitman instead of Buckner. Colts can just stay at 4. 

Buckner will turn 29 in March. Will he be starting to fade as the Colts hopefully re-emerge in a couple of years?

[VikingsFanInChennai]

35 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

He could be as special and skilled as anyone but if he snaps in half from a couple hits it won’t matter.

If he'd snap in half, wouldn't that have already happened in college in his conference? 

[csmopar]

30 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

If he'd snap in half, wouldn't that have already happened in college in his conference? 

Never know. 

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

He could be as special and skilled as anyone but if he snaps in half from a couple hits it won’t matter.

To be fair, Luck basically did the same thing…

[JColts72]

1 hour ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Buckner will turn 29 in March. Will he be starting to fade as the Colts hopefully re-emerge in a couple of years?

Buckner more productive then Pitman. Can get WR in draft or FA if Ballard does not bargin bin shopping like usual.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Never know. 

To be fair, Luck basically did the same thing…

It would be unfortunate if same Luck story happened again... 

 

But, if he's really good, Colts can draft him, let him take a backseat in rookie season until he gets more muscle weight, have professional strength and conditioning work on him, without losing his elite traits, and if it takes a year, so be it.. Be patient with him and build the roster around in the meantime in next two drafts, and hope he's in better shape in '24.

 

If any organization could understand the importance of health and strength a franchise QB needed for the NFL, shouldn't be the Colts first of all? 

 

But, would Irsay and Ballard show that kind of patience? Team can have even Ryan to mentor for a year with his contract in place, as he was ready to help out third string QB. Would fans exhibit patience and endure as much time it takes for the new coaching staff to be comfortable playing him? 

 

It's not like Young doesn't know these concerns, and if he's in better shape, he'd be raring to go, and more time would help acclimatise to the NFL better. 

 

I'd say it's important not to miss out drafting an elite QB for size and strength concerns, when NFL conditioning could make him better to eliminate those concerns after he gets drafted by the Colts. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

There is one thing colts have to be careful about with Levis. He has to be more careful and not put his body at risk.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

There is one thing colts have to be careful about with Levis. He has to be more careful and not put his body at risk.

Do you mean, Young? 

[boo2202]

What hurts so much about trading our 2023 1st rounder is that will probably be a top 10 pick. I’m ok with giving up a mid 1st but not a top 10. We still need to build next year. At some point we need to be in position to draft a top pass rusher. Won’t be next year if we trade it away. I’m all for this year’s and next years 2nd rounder but no more. Maybe 2nd this year and a 3rd next. This team needs playmakers which most teams must draft. 

[tweezy32]

38 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

It would be unfortunate if same Luck story happened again... 

 

But, if he's really good, Colts can draft him, let him take a backseat in rookie season until he gets more muscle weight, have professional strength and conditioning work on him, without losing his elite traits, and if it takes a year, so be it.. Be patient with him and build the roster around in the meantime in next two drafts, and hope he's in better shape in '24.

 

If any organization could understand the importance of health and strength a franchise QB needed for the NFL, shouldn't be the Colts first of all? 

 

But, would Irsay and Ballard show that kind of patience? Team can have even Ryan to mentor for a year with his contract in place, as he was ready to help out third string QB. Would fans exhibit patience and endure as much time it takes for the new coaching staff to be comfortable playing him? 

 

It's not like Young doesn't know these concerns, and if he's in better shape, he'd be raring to go, and more time would help acclimatise to the NFL better. 

 

I'd say it's important not to miss out drafting an elite QB for size and strength concerns, when NFL conditioning could make him better to eliminate those concerns after he gets drafted by the Colts. 

lol why would we draft him and have him sit and stink for another year when we can just draft Caleb next year? Like might as well draft the best non QB this year then suck next year and draft Caleb. Get the better QB.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

24 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Do you mean, Young? 

 No. Levis tends to try to much and it gets him injured.

[danlhart87]

Lions fan on Reddit asked everyone on Colts page if they would trade Buckner for 18th pick

 

Would you

Lots of mixed answers

[VikingsFanInChennai]

Just now, tweezy32 said:

lol why would we draft him and have him sit and stink for another year when we can just draft Caleb next year? Like might as well draft the best non QB this year then suck next year and draft Caleb. Get the better QB.

Because getting to #1 draft pick is so easy. 

 

Even Mahomes needed a year to learn with him being healthy. 

 

That's the kind of lack of patience I mentioned about. 

[tweezy32]

1 minute ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Because getting to #1 draft pick is so easy. 

 

Even Mahomes needed a year to learn with him being healthy. 

 

That's the kind of lack of patience I mentioned about. 

it is easy for the colts if we let foles or sam start. if we dont draft a qb this year and ride with what we got, we will be picking 1st next year no questions.

[crazycolt1]

Just now, tweezy32 said:

it is easy for the colts if we let foles or sam start. if we dont draft a qb this year and ride with what we got, we will be picking 1st next year no questions.

You must not know Irsay very well. 

[boo2202]

13 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Lions fan on Reddit asked everyone on Colts page if they would trade Buckner for 18th pick

 

Would you

Lots of mixed answers

Most definitely 

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Lions fan on Reddit asked everyone on Colts page if they would trade Buckner for 18th pick

 

Would you

Lots of mixed answers

I wouldn't. Buck has been one of our best players. Trading him would have a negative effect on the field and the locker room.  

[philba101]

I was listening to an interview with a Colts beat writer yesterday and he seemed to think that the Colts could move to #1 in the draft by offering this year's 4th pick, a future 1st, and maybe a player that Eberflus could use like Kenny Moore. If you are the Colts and you have a guy you love over the rest, do you make this deal?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Levis being asked why he made certain decisions I think will all be huge in his interviews. Why did he make that throw ect. Will go along way in determining if his decision making could be a problem.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, philba101 said:

I was listening to an interview with a Colts beat writer yesterday and he seemed to think that the Colts could move to #1 in the draft by offering this year's 4th pick, a future 1st, and maybe a player that Eberflus could use like Kenny Moore. If you are the Colts and you have a guy you love over the rest, do you make this deal?

Yes in a minute. I don’t like giving up the future first but that’s what he have to do to get a QB I am all for it.

[cjwhiskers]

1 minute ago, philba101 said:

I was listening to an interview with a Colts beat writer yesterday and he seemed to think that the Colts could move to #1 in the draft by offering this year's 4th pick, a future 1st, and maybe a player that Eberflus could use like Kenny Moore. If you are the Colts and you have a guy you love over the rest, do you make this deal?

 

Yep, if they loved one of the QBs go grab them. Next years first is meh to me. Unproven, unknown. The player we trade would dhave to be right. If it's Kenny, I'd do it all day. Buck, not so sure. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

20 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Lions fan on Reddit asked everyone on Colts page if they would trade Buckner for 18th pick

 

Would you

Lots of mixed answers

Oh my yes. If that gives us another first in a second.  

[chad72]

35 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

What hurts so much about trading our 2024 1st rounder is that will probably be a top 10 pick. I’m ok with giving up a mid 1st but not a top 10. We still need to build next year. At some point we need to be in position to draft a top pass rusher. Won’t be next year if we trade it away. I’m all for this year’s and next years 2nd rounder but no more. Maybe 2nd this year and a 3rd next. This team needs playmakers which most teams must draft. 

 

If that is the case, stand pat, if you are Ballard. Without a 2024 1st rounder, any trade is a no go. Plus, you can win enough games with this roster with good QB play in our division, IMO. It will probably be in the 10-15 range, our 2024 pick. No one wants to lose first rounders but it is what it is IF they decide to move up.

 

 

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Yes in a minute. I don’t like giving up the future first but that’s what he have to do to get a QB I am all for it.

 

No.4, future 1st and current 3rd is what it will at least take, Kenny Moore is worth only a 5th or 6th rounder, even if he is thrown in.