Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[rockywoj]

19 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Leaf had superior arm strength to Manning by quite a bit.

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.  Just saying the dude elite arm strength and quick release.

 

marino was not highly thought of out of college BTW because he was turnover prone. lol. 

What I am getting at is, I thought Marino was arguably the best QB ever at the time of his career.  And I am saying that I drool at the thought of getting a “Marino”, and then I said I was firmly in the Manning camp in the Manning vs Leaf debate.  Furthermore, that I do not recall ever hearing Leaf being compared to Dan Marino, one of the best ever, as a Leaf comp.  Had I been hearing that Leaf was the next Marino, I don’t see how I would not have preferred Leaf over Manning.  Turns out, Manning was even better than Marino.  Different (though similar in quick release), but better.

 

Point being, though, I hold Marino based on his career in such high esteem, that if somebody is legitimately being compared to Marino, then I am super intrigued, because Marino is one of the all-time greats.

 

As I recall, Luck was compared to Manning in football smarts and awareness, but being touted as physically far superior to Manning.  Luck was no Manning, but could’ve been a HOFer had he not retired and stayed healthy for another 5 years.

 

Ultimately, point is, if a prospect is garnering legit comparisons to all-time greats, it’s a prospect worth taking note of.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, richard pallo said:

Interesting suggestion today from Nick Wright on Cowherd’s show.  He suggested a straight up trade Lamar Jackson for Fields.  He thinks Jackson is heading for a break up with the Ravens and the Bears have the cap space to give him a big contract.

I have heard a few people mention that.  The former big ten commissioner thst just got hired by bears had a lot of praise for fields today. If you remember he took on the commissioner when he canceled the season because of Covid. Bears need a ton and that  team is not ready to win if they got Jackson.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 

You’re not getting the number 1 overall pick for a single future 1st round pick. That’s insane. They’re gonna demand multiple. Heck, in 2012, the rams for 3 additional future first round picks for pick number 2. 

We won’t have to give up more then a 24 first. Yes there will be other picks involved but I would be shocked if it went beyond that. They can demand what they want but rarely do teams get their highest price. Especially when your only moving up 3 spots.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If there would be a 25 first who cares. Your giving a young QB until year 3 anyway.  

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, C_Lew said:

He missed the Arkansas game this year. The very next game vs Tennessee he put up 450 yards 2 TDs and 0 picks in a 52-49 loss.

Thanks.   FWIW,  Young’s Wikipedia page says Alabama played 12 games and that he started all 12 going 10-2.   Sounds like that’s not quite right. 

[#12.]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

I think I might.  The dude looks like a stud in the two games I've watched, (us and this playoff game)

 

As a general rule, I throw out what any QB does against us.  We have a history of making practically every QB look like a HOFer.  Lol

 

Jones is a pretty limited passer.  I wouldn't give the 4th for him, and certainly wouldn't give a haul of high draft picks.  Both Levis and Stroud have considerably higher ceilings IMO.

 

If you wanted, I'm sure you could get Jones from the Giants for #4.

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If there would be a 25 first who cares. Your giving a young QB until year 3 anyway.  

But you’re missing a ton of talent to grow with that QB. And it rarely ever works out for the team trading up. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Kevin Bowen did mention this morning how Ballard is big on traits we really don’t know if he would go outside the box when it comes to QB.
 

I will support anyone they take. If it’s young I will just hope for the best and hope they made the right decision.  With Texans taking a QB these two quarterbacks are going to be compared for years and don’t want to be looking  back that we picked the wrong one. Hopefully the right decision is made.

[#12.]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Kevin Bowen did mention this morning how Ballard is big on traits we really don’t know if he would go outside the box when it comes to QB.

 

I have thought about that.  Ballard sure seemed to love Sam who isn't physically gifted.  He loved his leadership, etc.  Maybe Ballard looks at position players one way, QBs another..  Perhaps at QB, physical traits aren't as high on the list.

 

No, I think it’s just a case of him liking who Sam is for a 6th rounder.  At #4, he will still want a physical specimen.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Every team has to pay the piper at some point.

 

That is why the Chiefs spread Mahomes' $450 mil. salary across 10 years, gives them flexibility, I expect Bengals to do the same with Burrow. Then, the Chiefs took other teams' castoffs like JuJu, MVS (and surprisingly Kadarius Toney that the Giants let go) while sprinkling their own draft picks in Hardman and Skyy Moore to make it work with an elite QB and play caller. The Bengals have 2 No.1 WRs they have to pay, Higgins and Chase and that is when they will have to make choices elsewhere on D and other places. That is why the Chiefs made a conscious decision to let go of Tyreek Hill and I have to applaud them for that. 

 

 

 

In other words, actions speak louder than words.  

Well yeah man but those teams have Mahomes and Burrow.  Not Purdy, JG and Lance.

They are elite because of non QB talent.  Once they start losing those players they will need much better QB play and won’t necessarily have it.

 

Worlds or difference IMO.

[Dobbinblitz]

15 minutes ago, csmopar said:

But you’re missing a ton of talent to grow with that QB. And it rarely ever works out for the team trading up. 

I could see Ballard swinging a deal with Arizona if Quarterbacks (Via Trade) are selected #1 and #2 in the draft.

I think Ballard would be absolutely crucified if he did not come out of this draft with one of the the top tier QB's in this draft. 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

I could see Ballard swinging a deal with Arizona if Quarterbacks (Via Trade) are selected #1 and #2 in the draft.

I think Ballard would be absolutely crucified if he did not come out of this draft with one of the the top tier QB's in this draft. 

Ballard will have to swing for the fences this draft! Whether it's Round 1 or 2 we need to get a QB and hope for the best.

[JColts72]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

Ballard will have to swing for the fences this draft! Whether it's Round 1 or 2 we need to get a QB and hope for the best.

Round 1! Not going to waste 4th pick on some other position then QB. Whoever he drafts; we all have something to say.

[chad72]

33 minutes ago, csmopar said:

But you’re missing a ton of talent to grow with that QB. And it rarely ever works out for the team trading up. 

 

Both the Chiefs and Bills traded up for Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, it has worked out fine for them. When the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan, they gave him Tony Gonzalez and Michael Turner for TE and RB support and then traded up for Julio Jones giving up a boat load of picks, it worked fine for them. Or teams trade for guys like Diggs with the Bills etc. but all of that success is predicated on how well the HC/OC develops the QB.

 

Bad organizations don't know how to support QBs. Browns, Bears come to mind in recent years and I would like to think the Colts did enough to support Peyton but not as much to support Luck, so we are smart enough to learn lessons from the past. One extra first rounder given up will not sink this organization if the value add with the QB is there for the next decade.

[Dobbinblitz]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Ballard will have to swing for the fences this draft! Whether it's Round 1 or 2 we need to get a QB and hope for the best.

Probably a tough sell to the people who buy the seats to wait until the second round after having the #4 selection in the draft.

[King Colt]

It is a total disaster to go for a QB if they don't address the OL first

[Nickster]

36 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

What I am getting at is, I thought Marino was arguably the best QB ever at the time of his career.  And I am saying that I drool at the thought of getting a “Marino”, and then I said I was firmly in the Manning camp in the Manning vs Leaf debate.  Furthermore, that I do not recall ever hearing Leaf being compared to Dan Marino, one of the best ever, as a Leaf comp.  Had I been hearing that Leaf was the next Marino, I don’t see how I would not have preferred Leaf over Manning.  Turns out, Manning was even better than Marino.  Different (though similar in quick release), but better.

 

Point being, though, I hold Marino based on his career in such high esteem, that if somebody is legitimately being compared to Marino, then I am super intrigued, because Marino is one of the all-time greats.

 

As I recall, Luck was compared to Manning in football smarts and awareness, but being touted as physically far superior to Manning.  Luck was no Manning, but could’ve been a HOFer had he not retired and stayed healthy for another 5 years.

 

Ultimately, point is, if a prospect is garnering legit comparisons to all-time greats, it’s a prospect worth taking note of.

Oh man I’m not comparing George’s results for instance to Marino’s.  Was George compared to Marino?  I don’t know.  I ain’t saying Levis will be like that either.  My only point is that the release of Levis reminds me of that .  Have you heard Marino like release from anyone but me?  I haven’t but I don’t follow college talent other than what people post here.

 

the guy could very well be a complete bust .  I have no idea.  George had a couple decent years late, but nothing close to the level of his arm talent.

 

I think we might be talking about different things.  My point is that elite arm talent and release ALA Marino doesn’t necessarily mean a guy is going to be elite in the League.

 

Exhibit A to me is George.  I will say confidently that he had every bit of the arm talent of  Marino.

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, King Colt said:

It is a total disaster to go for a QB if they don't address the OL first

They will start in FA .  That comes before the draft.

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

They will start in FA .  That comes before the draft.

 

Yes, I am sure that will be the plan. 

[Dobbinblitz]

4 minutes ago, King Colt said:

It is a total disaster to go for a QB if they don't address the OL first

The Colts to a large extent had the OL addressed in 2021, and then let players walk while betting on younger and cheaper players.

This OL can be fixed in the offseason. They can get a young quarterback cheap for 5 years and address the line at the same time through the draft free agency, and a hopefully a new OL coach.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, King Colt said:

It is a total disaster to go for a QB if they don't address the OL first

That won’t be hard to fix.

[DaColts85]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

He said if he is the coach he's going to make a lot of changes.  Im not sure where but thats what he said. 

Hmm curious of that one but yet do not want to see it. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I don’t expect FA to be big this year. My guess that might have to wait until 24. Have to get the QB first. I could see them doing some things to fix the Oline in the draft and FA. But I think 24 is where they could use FA more.

[Dobbinblitz]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I don’t expect FA to be big this year. My guess that might have to wait until 24. Have to get the QB first. I could see them doing some things to fix the Oline in the draft and FA. But I think 24 is where they could use FA more.

Things could still open up in 23. Good players players get released or traded all the time due to salary cap restrictions and roster management. There are currently 11 teams over the cap heading into the off season.

[csmopar]

29 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Both the Chiefs and Bills traded up for Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, it has worked out fine for them. When the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan, they gave him Tony Gonzalez and Michael Turner for TE and RB support and then traded up for Julio Jones giving up a boat load of picks, it worked fine for them. Or teams trade for guys like Diggs with the Bills etc. but all of that success is predicated on how well the HC/OC develops the QB.

 

Bad organizations don't know how to support QBs. Browns, Bears come to mind in recent years and I would like to think the Colts did enough to support Peyton but not as much to support Luck, so we are smart enough to learn lessons from the past. One extra first rounder given up will not sink this organization if the value add with the QB is there for the next decade.

Yes how much was the cost for Allen and Mahomes? I’m betting less than what it’d take today to get to number 1. 

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I don’t expect FA to be big this year. My guess that might have to wait until 24. Have to get the QB first. I could see them doing some things to fix the Oline in the draft and FA. But I think 24 is where they could use FA more.

They could increase their cap space quite a bit by cutting Ryan and possibly including a player in a trade to move up in the draft.  I read where we are also rolling over 6m from 2022 to 2023.  Have to go hard for the OL that’s for sure.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

 

As a general rule, I throw out what any QB does against us.  We have a history of making practically every QB look like a HOFer.  Lol

 

Jones is a pretty limited passer.  I wouldn't give the 4th for him, and certainly wouldn't give a haul of high draft picks.  Both Levis and Stroud have considerably higher ceilings IMO.

 

If you wanted, I'm sure you could get Jones from the Giants for #4.

He doesn’t have much to work with throwing the ball. Poor receiving corps imo.  Their 3 leading receivers are 5th, 7th,and 6th round talent.  I personally don’t see any weaknesses  in the throwing game.  That’s said it’s his rushing ability that pushes him up in value.  What i see is a QB carrying a poor offense with the arm and the legs.  
 

im just going to say that they would absolutely not trade Jones for the 4th.  I think that is actually absurd and I’m not trying to be snarky.  Jones had the 7th best QBR in football for the Giants.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Things could still open up in 23. Good players players get released or traded all the time due to salary cap restrictions and roster management. There are currently 11 teams over the cap heading into the off season.

My biggest thing is I think they will wait to get a sense of who the QB will be and the offense they want to run. That might wait  until 24.  Will FA want to come here? I think we might need to show things are back on track too.

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

They could increase their cap space quite a bit by cutting Ryan and possibly including a player in a trade to move up in the draft.  I read where we are also rolling over 6m from 2022 to 2023.  Have to go hard for the OL that’s for sure.

It’s not about cap space for me.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

They could increase their cap space quite a bit by cutting Ryan and possibly including a player in a trade to move up in the draft.  I read where we are also rolling over 6m from 2022 to 2023.  Have to go hard for the OL that’s for sure.

They can restructure several too if needed. If the saints can clear what they did last year with only one cut, we can easily do it

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

They can restructure several too if needed. If the saints can clear what they did last year with only one cut, we can easily do it

Agree and I have said it before.  The NFL is a league full of weak teams.  The Bucs made the playoffs at 8-9.  The Jags went from last to first.  The Giants had 4 wins the previous year and made the playoffs.  No reason why we can’t make the playoffs with the right coach and assistants, a few solid FA additions, a good draft class and good quarterback play even if the quarterback is a rookie.  Its not like the South is a juggernaut division.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Agree and I have said it before.  The NFL is a league full of weak teams.  The Bucs made the playoffs at 8-9.  The Jags went from last to first.  The Giants had 4 wins the previous year and made the playoffs.  No reason why we can’t make the playoffs with the right coach and assistants, a few solid FA additions, a good draft class and good quarterback play even if the quarterback is a rookie.  Its not like the South is a juggernaut division.

I completely agree

[coming on strong]

6 hours ago, RollerColt said:

 

Young vs. LSU. Every throw and run for those interested. 

if young was over 6 feet tall and had a stronger arm he would be a lock at 1 .  his size scares me every one points to drew breese and wilson but outside of them it doesnt usually work out

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I wasn’t even thinking about cap space when I said that about FA. I have other reasons why o think they may not do that this year.

[coming on strong]

47 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

The Colts to a large extent had the OL addressed in 2021, and then let players walk while betting on younger and cheaper players.

This OL can be fixed in the offseason. They can get a young quarterback cheap for 5 years and address the line at the same time through the draft free agency, and a hopefully a new OL coach.

the line got so much better down the stretch the main problem was pryor and pintor  .  they were so bad and nelson was banged up and played bad too .     watching the film it looks like most of the sacks were from poor stunt pick ups  .  no communication and poor coaching played a massive role along with horrible left tackle and guard play .

 

as the season went on and raiman and fries stepped in the line got so much better .   against dallas raiman was shutting down parsons  he showed huge flashes .   fries played very well down the stretch too .    get a new coach let nelson and kelly rest up and raiman and fries will improve next year .  i think we can keep the combo and be fine with a new coach .  

 

we just need to add depth get a veteran left tackle and guard .   the reason we lost games down the stretch was coaching and horrible QB play not the line .

[Dobbinblitz]

2 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

the line got so much better down the stretch the main problem was pryor and pintor  .  they were so bad and nelson was banged up and played bad too .     watching the film it looks like most of the sacks were from poor stunt pick ups  .  no communication and poor coaching played a massive role along with horrible left tackle and guard play .

 

as the season went on and raiman and fries stepped in the line got so much better .   against dallas raiman was shutting down parsons  he showed huge flashes .   fries played very well down the stretch too .    get a new coach let nelson and kelly rest up and raiman and fries will improve next year .  i think we can keep the combo and be fine with a new coach .  

 

we just need to add depth get a veteran left tackle and guard .   the reason we lost games down the stretch was coaching and horrible QB play not the line .

Agree. The backfield blocking schemes at the beginning of the year was like sandlot football to the point of embarrassment

I think Ballard has been punched in the face on this and will be aggressive in addressing the line- lesson learned.  It will be interesting what the team does with Kelly, in the end I think you are probably correct. By the end of the year Raimann consistently had the best pass blocking grades on the line.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Listening to a mock. They mention edge class is deeper then DT class. Seems like bears would still be able to get Carter if they move to 4. Maybe that’s what they do.

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Listening to a mock. They mention edge class is deeper then DT class. Seems like bears would still be able to get Carter if they move to 4. Maybe that’s what they do.

I think they draft Will Anderson Jr and attempt to sign Payne to a large contract 

What WRs are the best blockers in draft?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Arizona needs edge that’s why I think they  would take Anderson. So that would leave Carter for the Bears.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

Hmm curious of that one but yet do not want to see it. 

Might have been talking primarily about the culture. Not sure.

[DaColts85]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Might have been talking primarily about the culture. Not sure.

I agree with that. Maybe OC would change and Parks goes back to where he was. I’m not sure but Bubba would stay and I don’t see him getting rid of Gus either.