Let us talk about our pass rush (or lack of, still)

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, coming on strong said:

my problem with yannick is his liability against the run he cant set the edge or tackle very well .   the jags were targeting him with outside runs and he couldnt do anything .   as a pass rusher though he is solid

And it hasn’t happened sense and the Jags couldn’t do it in the rematch.  Maybe he and or the coaches fixed that problem?  Look I am not Yannick’s biggest fan but let’s not judge him solely on one game.  With Paye, Stewart, and Buckner in there to stop the run Yannick has held up his end of the deal more than not when it comes to run defense.

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Happy2BeHere said:

No idea what the actual stats are but it seems to me that we rely on a 4 man front to get pressure about 85% of the time. You’ve got 5 guys on that O line and we constantly send 4. It seems to me unlikely that you’ll generate a whole lot of pressures and sacks doing so. 

In todays NFL that’s what you have to do.  If you blitz todays QBs kill you.  If you saw on Sunday anytime the Colts blitzed Carr recognized it and got a quick pass to a wide open player who would have been picked up the blitzer had he not been blitzing.  

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

With Kwity hurt this line is awful at pass rush unless Buckner and Stewart get a push up the middle.  They are also only decent against the run without Paye.  Paye is a huge missing peace.  That’s why when people complain about taking Paye over a tackle I don’t listen because those same people would now be complaining about taking a tackle of Paye had the Colts done that because the Colts line is not the same without him.

 

We need Kwity back, but Dayo played OK yesterday. IIRC, he had 2-3 QB hits?

[Solid84]

10 hours ago, krunk said:

Yall kill me how you talk about Ngakoue and hes sitting on 5 sacks. Youd think he has 2 the way you bad mouth the guy. Weve still got what 8 games left. By the end of the year im sure he will have around 10 or more you will still be talking bad about the guy like you talked bad about Houston before he left.

The problem with Ngakoue is he’s nonexiatent in the running game. 

[Nickster]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

Hooker and Blackmon were very difference. Opposite strengths and opposite weaknesses. 

 

Hooker was drafted for C3, and we switched to C2. 

And we drafted Blackmon for C2, and we switched back to C3. 

It's a bit funny lol.

 

Now Hooker is playing C3 again, and looks like a stud. 

We need to limit Blackmon at SS if we are C3

 

that was always a baffled to me.

 

I noticed Blackmon.  Seems this is once again stubbornness by management. I haven’t watched film since things went South but it usually seems pretty clear to me that the club is better without JB as center fielder.

 

we are going to see what we really have defensively over the next month or so.

 

I still don’t know.  We’ve played a very weak, almost anomalously so, offensive slate so far.  We’ve been pretty stout v. The comp we’ve played for the most part.

 

 

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

19 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Sacks don't tell the whole story. Pressures are more consistent stats, IMO.

 

 Autry and Houston had mostly time taking coverage sacks. They had poor pressure numbers and That is why Ballard let them go.

 CB has flat out failed miserably getting a pressure DE with multiple high picks and surely no one has or is missing this.

 Kwity looks promising but i can't imagine they re-sign Nga.

 We are still using our front 4 to have gap control, because mobile QB's kill ya.

  Gus has his ways and we do need more big plays.

lol

 

19 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Sacks don't tell the whole story. Pressures are more consistent stats, IMO.

 

Pressures?

 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Chad72 man you were right.  Since week 3 they have been all world.  No wonder they keep winning because no one can score on them.  We are middle of the road.  

 

 

[chad72]

14 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Chad72 man you were right.  Since week 3 they have been all world.  No wonder they keep winning because no one can score on them.  We are middle of the road.  

 

 

 

Yeah, the surprising ones are the Commanders. They started terrible, and have recovered really well.

 

Chiefs, Dolphins, Vikings, their O gets the attention but seem like balanced squads. Dolphins already have the tie breaker over the Bills and might win the division forcing the Bills to be a wild card. It could be crazy having teams like the Bengals/Ravens and Bills as wild cards. 

 

Titans, if they figure out a consistency on offense, they could go far but against the elite teams, the elite teams will just make enough plays on offense to get them in a close game if their offense doesn't improve. Mahomes and his legs were a big reason for the Chiefs to beat the Titans in a close game, that proves my point. 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

They’ve only allowed an average of 15.1 PPG while ranking:

• 1st in Success Rate

• 1st in Rush EPA

• 1st in Rushing Success Rate

• 6th in EPA/play

• 6th in Dropback Success Rate  

And they faced the Chiefs at home during this span who had to throw it 68 times to get 20 points. 

Impressive.  Mahommes had 90% of th rush yrds in that game and they only gave up 75 yds.  

I would think the injuries are gonna catch up soon.  Looks like they maybe missing 8 starters for TNF

*6-1 record over that span*

https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tennessee-titans-nfl-in-season-additions-paying-off#gid=ci02b057c6700125c3&pid=cj-board-wrpr

[Rhodelesstraveled]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, the surprising ones are the Commanders. They started terrible, and have recovered really well.

 

Chiefs, Dolphins, Vikings, their O gets the attention but seem like balanced squads. Dolphins already have the tie breaker over the Bills and might win the division forcing the Bills to be a wild card. It could be crazy having teams like the Bengals/Ravens and Bills as wild cards. 

 

Titans, if they figure out a consistency on offense, they could go far but against the elite teams, the elite teams will just make enough plays on offense to get them in a close game if their offense doesn't improve. Mahomes and his legs were a big reason for the Chiefs to beat the Titans in a close game, that proves my point. 

When Washington gets Chase Young back they maybe a real problem for teams in December.

[EastStreet]

11 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

that was always a baffled to me.

 

I noticed Blackmon.  Seems this is once again stubbornness by management. I haven’t watched film since things went South but it usually seems pretty clear to me that the club is better without JB as center fielder.

 

we are going to see what we really have defensively over the next month or so.

 

I still don’t know.  We’ve played a very weak, almost anomalously so, offensive slate so far.  We’ve been pretty stout v. The comp we’ve played for the most part.

 

I might re-watch this game, but don't have much time this week. But I know I saw multiple horrible reps from Blackmon. And one was strange. Either we switched to C2 (or some hybrid), or he totally abandoned his zone. Regardless, he looked bad whatever the call was. 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:35 PM, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Chad72 man you were right.  Since week 3 they have been all world.  No wonder they keep winning because no one can score on them.  We are middle of the road.  

 

 

Chad you must right for the Atlantic.  This article just got posted.  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/11/16/23461620/tennessee-titans-playoff-push-afc-south-defense

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Chad you must right for the Atlantic.  This article just got posted.  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/11/16/23461620/tennessee-titans-playoff-push-afc-south-defense

 

Autry is top 10 (tied) in sacks... and #8 in pressures.....

And Justin Houston is #4 in sacks...

 

 

 

[masterlock]

Well, they're in the top-10 in sack percentage thus far (7.60%), and they're a top-4 defense overall, so I can't say I have too many complaints.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Anyone know how much money Autry is making?  Is he getting paid huge money?  

Compared to what we are paying Ngouki

[chad72]

6 hours ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Chad you must right for the Atlantic.  This article just got posted.  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/11/16/23461620/tennessee-titans-playoff-push-afc-south-defense

 

Their biggest mistake was trading A J Brown, it will come back to haunt them against the elite teams eventually.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Chad I used to believe that too in September.  If you look at how they play I think it was a smart GM decision to let him walk.  In fact it is the same reason I think we made a mistake paying an OG and MLB huge money.  Go look at how good our 'replacement' LBs have done replacing Leonard.  We really aren't missing him at all.  It is shocking until you look at the data on LBers.  Our guys are playing well.  (see where Bobby is on the list)  Some posters on here believe we need Leonards TO's.  nonsense.  We had a ton of his TO last year and we sat home and did not make the playoffs.  TO only matter if you do something with them and with our offensive philopsophy under Ballard and Reich we did not.  If Saturday just goes back and runs JT to the ground and uses Ryan as a game manager I bet we look a lot like what TN is doing and I bet we win more.  I've said this since last yr.  Fans want the flash of a wide open offense.  That idea has killed the Colts.     

TN's GM seems to get it and it is why I think he is far smarter and wiser than Ballard in roster construction and cap spending.  They need to spend money on the LOS to win with their philosophy.  That is the story between the words in the Ringer article.  There is a thread on their site about this topic that I think good.  I started researching this after you turned me on to this Chad.  To beat TN you have to understand what they are doing if you are a good GM and head coach.  I think it is pretty clear to me TN values the LOS and RB especially the DL over WRs.  I am beginning to see why they do now.  https://www.titansreport.com/topic/45533-tnf-thread-lets-begin-discussing-this-one/page/3/#comments

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Their biggest mistake was trading A J Brown, it will come back to haunt them against the elite teams eventually.

They weren't winning anything BIG anyway (BIG as in the AFC or SB) with Tannehill at QB, last year was huge proof of it. Last 3 years actually they have had golden chances. They have been winning our division because the Texans and Jags suck, and we are average. We are average because we find ways to beat ourselves for the most part. As of now, the Titans would have little chance of beating the Chiefs, Bills, or even the Ravens in the playoffs. All have superior QB's.

[Dark Superman]

17 hours ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Anyone know how much money Autry is making?  Is he getting paid huge money?  

Compared to what we are paying Ngouki

He signed a 3-year $21 million dollar deal with the Titans. Lol.

[NorthernColt]

I've actually been very happy with Gus and his defense this season as a whole. 

 

I was super excited when we got Yannick this offseason, but man has he been a let down. If you're going to be a liability in the run game, thats fine, but you better be elite at rushing the passer. He has not been close.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Chad I used to believe that too in September.  If you look at how they play I think it was a smart GM decision to let him walk.  In fact it is the same reason I think we made a mistake paying an OG and MLB huge money.  Go look at how good our 'replacement' LBs have done replacing Leonard.  We really aren't missing him at all.  It is shocking until you look at the data on LBers.  Our guys are playing well.  (see where Bobby is on the list)  Some posters on here believe we need Leonards TO's.  nonsense.  We had a ton of his TO last year and we sat home and did not make the playoffs.  TO only matter if you do something with them and with our offensive philopsophy under Ballard and Reich we did not.  If Saturday just goes back and runs JT to the ground and uses Ryan as a game manager I bet we look a lot like what TN is doing and I bet we win more.  I've said this since last yr.  Fans want the flash of a wide open offense.  That idea has killed the Colts.     

 

TN's GM seems to get it and it is why I think he is far smarter and wiser than Ballard in roster construction and cap spending.  They need to spend money on the LOS to win with their philosophy.  That is the story between the words in the Ringer article.  There is a thread on their site about this topic that I think good.  I started researching this after you turned me on to this Chad.  To beat TN you have to understand what they are doing if you are a good GM and head coach.  I think it is pretty clear to me TN values the LOS and RB especially the DL over WRs.  I am beginning to see why they do now.  https://www.titansreport.com/topic/45533-tnf-thread-lets-begin-discussing-this-one/page/3/#comments

 

Good finds, bro.

 

Bobby is having a fantastic year so far. Our LBs are playing really well. Was it you who started that thread that the Bears felt Roquan Smith was expendable and thus traded him to the Ravens? Paying them well and overpaying them, there is a difference. I do think Leonard is overpaid. Big Q, more on par with the league and if he gets back to form like he has shown in the past, he will be back in the Top 3 guards in the league and his pay will be on par. Leonard, even when he was causing turnovers, could only do so much vs elite TEs and slot guys. Folks here got offended when Aaron Rodgers said Fred Warner was the best LB in the league at one point in time.

The issue is not philosophy, the issue is hitting it right. Grigson knew OL was important too, just that his moves didn't pan out well. Same way that Ballard knows DL is important, but his moves aren't panning out well, despite several years of drafting to address it.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, Dark Superman said:

He signed a 3-year $21 million dollar deal with the Titans. Lol.

 

...and they plucked Mario Edwards Jr. out of the Jaguars practice squad. Good coaches know to maximize talent, period. 

 

However, if we have to nitpick on an aspect of our team that is a problem, the D is not on the top, the O is.

[Dark Superman]

The pass rush doesn't look the same without a healthy Kwity Paye in the lineup. Buckner is a presence up the middle but there hasn't been much consistency from the outside in 2022. Yannick has been a disappointment. Losing Tyquan Lewis hurt. Dayo is still learning but he has shown flashes at times that but I'm loving all the experience he's getting in 2022. It's a shame Shaq Leonard isn't playing because he's a guy you can blitz on occasion who can get to the QB. I think Gus Bradley needs to get more creative and start blitzing linebackers/corners/safeties throughout games when the front four clearly isn't getting the job done.

[Dark Superman]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

...and they plucked Mario Edwards Jr. out of the Jaguars practice squad. Good coaches know to maximize talent, period. 

 

However, if we have to nitpick on an aspect of our team that is a problem, the D is not on the top, the O is.

Yeah, but Ballard screwed up big time when he allowed Denico Autry to walk and sign with the Titans for that amount of money. Ballard can trade away Rock Ya-Sin for Yannick who is making $13 million a year but couldn't give Denico (a guy who can play multiple positions) roughly $7 million a year? Now he's killing us every time we play the Titans.

[NorthernColt]

2 minutes ago, Dark Superman said:

The pass rush doesn't look the same without a healthy Kwity Paye in the lineup. Buckner is a presence up the middle but there hasn't been much consistency from the outside in 2022. Yannick has been a disappointment. Losing Tyquan Lewis hurt. Dayo is still learning but he has shown flashes at times that but I'm loving all the experience he's getting in 2022. It's a shame Shaq Leonard isn't playing because he's a guy you can blitz on occasion who can get to the QB. I think Gus Bradley needs to get more creative and start blitzing linebackers/corners/safeties throughout games when the front four clearly isn't getting the job done.

Definitely. When you don't have many high end pass rushers, losing Paye hurts more than people imagine. Plus he was on pace to double his production from his rookie year.

[Dark Superman]

Just now, NorthernColt said:

Definitely. When you don't have many high end pass rushers, losing Paye hurts more than people imagine. Plus he was on pace to double his production from his rookie year.

Yeah, Paye was really starting to come into his own as a pass rusher. He's been pretty solid against the run since he came into the league. It's a shame he's been dealing with an ankle issue since the Broncos game.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They weren't winning anything BIG anyway (BIG as in the AFC or SB) with Tannehill at QB, last year was huge proof of it. Last 3 years actually they have had golden chances. They have been winning our division because the Texans and Jags suck, and we are average. We are average because we find ways to beat ourselves for the most part. As of now, the Titans would have little chance of beating the Chiefs, Bills, or even the Ravens in the playoffs. All have superior QB's.

Many people think losing their WR were a big deal.  Go back and look at what they got stat wise from Brown and Jones when Henry was gone.  It wasn't a lot.  Neither one were difference makers for them last year.  The two RB they got to replace Henry were more important than Brown and Jones and that is why their GM got rid of both WR.  It wasn't likely popular but it is was the right move so far in 2022.  

[Rhodelesstraveled]

1 hour ago, NorthernColt said:

Definitely. When you don't have many high end pass rushers, losing Paye hurts more than people imagine. Plus he was on pace to double his production from his rookie year.

I used to believe this too until Chad pointed out what the Titans are doing with Edwards and Walker.  These guys costed them nothing in cap or draft capital and both are playing way better than any DE in Indy or Jacksonville for that matter.  

 

Jacksonville has to dying that they gave TN a DE who is outperforming their top pick.  Landry has missed all year I believe, but Dupree has missed 4 games and when he played us he only played a few plays before missing 3.5 Q up here. How many other teams can lose both starting DE and not miss a beat?  Look at the production they are getting.  It tells me their scheme and coaching is elite.  The Ringer article is eye opening in telling you how important coaching is even at the NFL level.  It is very important to make sure the GM/HC work optimally together.  

[lollygagger8]

Big Grove and Buckner are studs in the middle, and Cowart even flashes sometimes. 

 

Paye was starting to hit a stride, which I hope his injuries aren't an ongoing thing. 

 

Yannick........I'm not sure why he is getting so many snaps. He needs to put on some weight/strength and quit getting manhandled on the regular. He has been disappointing 

 

Dayo should be getting more snaps. Odenigbo is alright too. 

 

Banagu is not good. I hope Ballard recognizes this and doesn't pull his usual M.O. and pay him. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Many people think losing their WR were a big deal.  Go back and look at what they got stat wise from Brown and Jones when Henry was gone.  It wasn't a lot.  Neither one were difference makers for them last year.  The two RB they got to replace Henry were more important than Brown and Jones and that is why their GM got rid of both WR.  It wasn't likely popular but it is was the right move so far in 2022.  

They had a great chance last year, #1 seed and HFA. Henry was back too. Their D was playing outstanding. They should have took care of Cincy, then getting the Chiefs at Tennessee with Henry getting the rust off was the path to the SB. Cincy went into KC and beat them. I just don't see ol' Tanne ever winning the AFC. I will give them credit, they have owned us lately but we really have been an average team as bad as I hate to admit it. Last good team we had was in 2020 with Rivers and a healthy Leonard going 11-5. I thought with Matty Ice we would be like that but I have been wrong so far.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

I do not think that. Last year Tannehill was a turnover machine because their WR and TE were horrible.  Their secondary was not as good as it is this year.  I think they are better team right now than at any point last year.  

 

They have a Super Bowl quality defense.  Their offense stinks but a great D takes a team far because you do not have to do much to win.  

 

I also did not realize how good their rookie punter is and found out this AM he is also UDFA.  Amazing find and boy does a punter help a D because it makes all teams travel long fields into that D.  

 

We saw how KC got a lot of yards because they were pinned down on long fields and they could not score.  I thought their pass D stunk until I realized what they really are doing.  

 

Go look at Fulton stats.  He is a shut down CB and that rookie McCreary is also playing well behind that DL.  Kills me every time I see Autry demolish another OL.  

[Rhodelesstraveled]

If we are gonna catch TN we better know how to deal with them if we meet them in playoffs.  Vrabel is daring people to throw into that Defense.  Almost like a Top Gun Defense idea.  Never would have put that together without Chad72 ideas in this thread.