NewColtsFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, EastStreet said: There's also some evidence to suggest a few regressed under Strausser.... And even in 2019 and 2020, when Strausser had a very healthy OL, his sack total has never been better than Gug's 2018 (which was full of musical chairs the first 5-6 weeks)... But I would agree Strausser is not on the hot seat, but there's plenty to suggest is simply not as good as Gug... He's Reich's guy, and is nice. Ryan Kelly has steadily regressed little by little since his 2018... Hit a career best with Gug.... 2016 - 72.4 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2017 - 60.4 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2018 - 74.5 (DeGuglielmo) - Career high grade 2019 - 73.0 (Strausser) 2020 - 69.0 (Strausser) 2021 - 56.9 (Strausser) Glow's performance is punch you in the face best with Gug..... 2015 - 50.2 (Gilbert/Hunter) 2016 - 61.4 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2017 - 52.8 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2018 - 77.7 and 0 sacks (DeGuglielmo) 2019 - 60.5 (Strausser) 2020 - 67.3 (Strausser) 2021 - 70.1 (Strausser) - took getting challenged by Reed to drive his grade up Sacks.... 2017 - 56 2018 - 18 (amid all the musical chairs and rooks....) with Gug... And a high Time to Throw QB... 2019 - 32 2020 - 21 (even with one of the quickest trigger QBs, still was not as good as 2018) 2021 - 32 I'd also point out that DeGuglielmo Architect'd our current OL. Aside from AC, and maybe Kelly, nothing was in stone (who and where) when Gug was given the task. In just 5-6 weeks of musical chairs, took the 25th ranked OL from 2017 and turned it into 3rd best ranked, an a sack total that is probably the best in 10+ years... Took a college guard (Smith) and turned him into a All-Rook RT in his first year... bold move Both Rooks (Q and Smith) had more starts than any other OL on the team that year.... Q - grew up with Harry Hiestand, a nasty driver like Gug, and was going to be a stud regardless of who was OL coach... What is interesting... Notre Dame got rid of mean old Harry, and hired a nice guy... They have now ditched the nice guy after several years, and hired mean-old-Harry back... Getting a 77.7 out of Glow after the musical chairs ended, is pretty phenomenal... wasn't near that good before, or after... Wow…. Even I didn’t think you’d spend so much time and energy defending Gug’s. He’s gone. And for good reason. He didn’t work well with other coaches. You recently called Reich “soft” because he let Gugs go. Did you call Belichick soft, because he fired Gugs too? And so has every other HC/GM he’s worked for. Go look at his resume. A year or two and he moves on. He’s either fired or not asked back. What does that tell you? He’s a good coach who is quickly pushed out the door throughout his career. That speaks volumes. Yet Frank is soft, but no other coach is. It’s almost as if you have a narrative going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuggaBeer Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, EastStreet said: There's also some evidence to suggest a few regressed under Strausser.... And even in 2019 and 2020, when Strausser had a very healthy OL, his sack total has never been better than Gug's 2018 (which was full of musical chairs the first 5-6 weeks)... But I would agree Strausser is not on the hot seat, but there's plenty to suggest is simply not as good as Gug... He's Reich's guy, and is nice. Ryan Kelly has steadily regressed little by little since his 2018... Hit a career best with Gug.... 2016 - 72.4 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2017 - 60.4 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2018 - 74.5 (DeGuglielmo) - Career high grade 2019 - 73.0 (Strausser) 2020 - 69.0 (Strausser) 2021 - 56.9 (Strausser) Glow's performance is punch you in the face best with Gug..... 2015 - 50.2 (Gilbert/Hunter) 2016 - 61.4 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2017 - 52.8 (Philbin/Gilbert) 2018 - 77.7 and 0 sacks (DeGuglielmo) 2019 - 60.5 (Strausser) 2020 - 67.3 (Strausser) 2021 - 70.1 (Strausser) - took getting challenged by Reed to drive his grade up Sacks.... 2017 - 56 2018 - 18 (amid all the musical chairs and rooks....) with Gug... And a high Time to Throw QB... 2019 - 32 2020 - 21 (even with one of the quickest trigger QBs, still was not as good as 2018) 2021 - 32 I'd also point out that DeGuglielmo Architect'd our current OL. Aside from AC, and maybe Kelly, nothing was in stone (who and where) when Gug was given the task. In just 5-6 weeks of musical chairs, took the 25th ranked OL from 2017 and turned it into 3rd best ranked, an a sack total that is probably the best in 10+ years... Took a college guard (Smith) and turned him into a All-Rook RT in his first year... bold move Both Rooks (Q and Smith) had more starts than any other OL on the team that year.... Q - grew up with Harry Hiestand, a nasty driver like Gug, and was going to be a stud regardless of who was OL coach... What is interesting... Notre Dame got rid of mean old Harry, and hired a nice guy... They have now ditched the nice guy after several years, and hired mean-old-Harry back... Getting a 77.7 out of Glow after the musical chairs ended, is pretty phenomenal... wasn't near that good before, or after... Andrew Luck was the QB in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStreet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 10 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said: This had to happen Had to happen.... Why? To make them forget about: Letting two productive FAs go (both whom went on to perform better in other places), and replacing them with a rook, and a guy who shouldn't be a starting DE? Our blitz % is in the bottom 6 of the league 4 years in a row... Our sack total was horrendous in 18 and 21, but at least average/mediocre in 19 and 20 when we had Autry and Houston.. Not saying Baker is great, but he was only here for 2 years, and he had his hands tied behind his back with talent and scheme this year. And he didn't do any worse than Phair, who left us for Carolina... IIRC, Baker was hired given his Dallas connection to Flus... Sounds like CYA move to me... He wasn't the one making the decision to let 2 FAs go, or to not blitz.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeyecolt Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Yet Gug’s has been fired by two more organizations and is coaching at Louisiana Tech. Reich didn’t want him for some reason we aren’t privy to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStreet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Wow…. Even I didn’t think you’d spend so much time and energy defending Gug’s. He’s gone. And for good reason. He didn’t work well with other coaches. You recently called Reich “soft” because he let Gugs go. Did you call Belichick soft, because he fired Gugs too? And so has every other HC/GM he’s worked for. Go look at his resume. A year or two and he moves on. He’s either fired or not asked back. What does that tell you? He’s a good coach who is quickly pushed out the door throughout his career. That speaks volumes. Yet Frank is soft, but no other coach is. It’s almost as if you have a narrative going? Gug was shown the door because of the Good situation. And he's so mean... he seems to always have a job... He's only not-worked one year since his career started in 91 Anyway..... So... what about the factual information I posted do you disagree with.... Or did you just want to swoop in and gush over Frank... Here I come to save the day...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStreet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said: Andrew Luck was the QB in 2018. We all know. Not sure I understand your need to call that out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuggaBeer Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, EastStreet said: We all know. Not sure I understand your need to call that out? Luck was the QB in 2016 and 2018 they were the best graded yrs. JB was QB in 2017 lowest graded yr. The oline goes as the QB. goes. Luck made their jobs easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStreet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, ChuggaBeer said: Luck was the QB in 2016 and 2018 they were the best graded yrs. JB was QB in 2017 lowest graded yr. The oline goes as the QB. goes. Luck made their jobs easier Nah... Everyone complained about Luck holding onto the ball too long, even though he wasn't near as bad as others. In 2018, Rivers, Wentz, and Luck all had about the same time to throw. If you want to compare Luck in 2018, to Rivers in 2020, Rivers was clearly faster... But sacked more.... So by your logic, Rivers made it easier on the OL in 2020, then Luck in 2018.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuggaBeer Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 23 minutes ago, EastStreet said: Nah... Everyone complained about Luck holding onto the ball too long, even though he wasn't near as bad as others. In 2018, Rivers, Wentz, and Luck all had about the same time to throw. If you want to compare Luck in 2018, to Rivers in 2020, Rivers was clearly faster... But sacked more.... So by your logic, Rivers made it easier on the OL in 2020, then Luck in 2018.... He was also better at calling protections. Just saying those stats follow the QB that was behind center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStreet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 14 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said: He was also better at calling protections. Just saying those stats follow the QB that was behind center Rivers is one of the best at reading Ds and calling protections. As good or better than Luck. And has a quicker trigger. So your logic fails there. There are several QBs (good and bad) with high time to throws, who have great OL grades... KC and the Eagles were both top 5 (OL rank) this year, and both QBs have a high time-to-throw... WFT's OL was ranked #6, and had a bad QB (bottom 10) who had a high time to throw (2.97, bottom 5).... Heck, Indy's OL was ranked #3 in 2019 despite JB having the 3rd worst time throw, and the OL's 32 sacks.. OLs and OL grades don't always go the way of the QB. Sometimes OLs are just bad... Fisher has never been great in pass pro... That's not Wentz's fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, EastStreet said: Gug was shown the door because of the Good situation. And he's so mean... he seems to always have a job... He's only not-worked one year since his career started in 91 Anyway..... So... what about the factual information I posted do you disagree with.... Or did you just want to swoop in and gush over Frank... Here I come to save the day...... Your point, as always, misses the most important point. That’s Gugs quickly wears out his welcome. How bad do you think it must have been for Gugs to be let go? I don’t dispute at all that he did a good job. He did. No one is saying otherwise. And let’s be clear, you don’t know that’s Gugs was let go for that one incident. It could’ve been much more, and you’d never ever know. But instead of keeping the focus on Gugs, where it should be, YOU made this about Frank. And ignored that Gugs has been fired quickly every place else. A point that you didn’t bring up, I did. This is how you make facts lie all the time. You only bring up the ones that support your view, and ignore or downplay everything else. You’ve done it since the day you arrived. One of us cares about truth and facts. The other tries desperately to spin their narrative. Nice try, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStreet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Your point, as always, misses the most important point. That’s Gugs quickly wears out his welcome. How bad do you think it must have been for Gugs to be let go? I don’t dispute at all that he did a good job. He did. No one is saying otherwise. And let’s be clear, you don’t know that’s Gugs was let go for that one incident. It could’ve been much more, and you’d never ever know. But instead of keeping the focus on Gugs, where it should be, YOU made this about Frank. And ignored that Gugs has been fired quickly every place else. A point that you didn’t bring up, I did. This is how you make facts lie all the time. You only bring up the ones that support your view, and ignore or downplay everything else. You’ve done it since the day you arrived. One of us cares about truth and facts. The other tries desperately to spin their narrative. Nice try, again. I posted in response to a specific post about Strausser's performance, from another poster... I provided clear facts on multiple years, only one of which was Gug's.... I mentioned Reich once in a very long post. But like you always do.... you ignore facts and data, the original topic, and take a post in another direction.... And like you always do, you come to the rescue of Reich, even though he was barely mentioned.... Just admit that you're easily triggered on all things Reich... But anyway..... Which facts lie specifically? You say this all the time, and I ask you all the time to the same question.... you never answer.... Please bring actual facts/data that contribute to the conversation, instead of your pearl clutching fluff and gush....... So... what specially has Strausser been good at..... other than inheriting a top 5 OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 29 minutes ago, EastStreet said: I posted in response to a specific post about Strausser's performance, from another poster... I provided clear facts on multiple years, only one of which was Gug's.... I mentioned Reich once in a very long post. But like you always do.... you ignore facts and data, the original topic, and take a post in another direction.... And like you always do, you come to the rescue of Reich, even though he was barely mentioned.... Just admit that you're easily triggered on all things Reich... But anyway..... Which facts lie specifically? You say this all the time, and I ask you all the time to the same question.... you never answer.... Please bring actual facts/data that contribute to the conversation, instead of your pearl clutching fluff and gush....... So... what specially has Strausser been good at..... other than inheriting a top 5 OL? Ive already said Gugs was a good coach. That’s not in dispute. I don’t have to defend Strausser, he’s good too. If you want to say Gugs is better — fine. But he doesn’t have the job anymore, and Strausser has still done a very good job. What facts lie? That you don’t says Gugs has been fired everywhere he’s been. You lie by omission, by what you don’t say. You present part of a picture and say that’s the whole picture when you know damn well that it’s not. You make it sound like Frank made a petty decision based on one incident. You called a Frank “soft” while ignoring that Frank only did what every other head coach has done with Gugs —FIRE HIM! Oh, but with Frank you say it’s a bad thing, yet it wasn’t a bad thing everywhere else? Lying by omission. You spin, and spin, and spin. Strausser hasn’t done a bad job and you know it. You just try to make it worse than it is because Gugs is your guy. You look for facts that fit your narrative (anti Frank) while ignoring everything else. Four years of doing the same thing is pretty easy to spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastStreet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 40 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Ive already said Gugs was a good coach. That’s not in dispute. I don’t have to defend Strausser, he’s good too. If you want to say Gugs is better — fine. But he doesn’t have the job anymore, and Strausser has still done a very good job. What facts lie? That you don’t says Gugs has been fired everywhere he’s been. You lie by omission, by what you don’t say. You present part of a picture and say that’s the whole picture when you know damn well that it’s not. You make it sound like Frank made a petty decision based on one incident. You called a Frank “soft” while ignoring that Frank only did what every other head coach has done with Gugs —FIRE HIM! Oh, but with Frank you say it’s a bad thing, yet it wasn’t a bad thing everywhere else? Lying by omission. You spin, and spin, and spin. Strausser hasn’t done a bad job and you know it. You just try to make it worse than it is because Gugs is your guy. You look for facts that fit your narrative (anti Frank) while ignoring everything else. Four years of doing the same thing is pretty easy to spot. So the point of the post was that some folks have regressed (Glow and Kelly), and Strausser was handed the keys to a great OL, which was never as good from a sack perspective.... Sounds like you're not interested in debating that... Or you can't lol... Keep fluffing and keep gushing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, EastStreet said: So the point of the post was that some folks have regressed (Glow and Kelly), and Strausser was handed the keys to a great OL, which was never as good from a sack perspective.... Sounds like you're not interested in debating that... Or you can't lol... Keep fluffing and keep gushing.... Yeah…. Like Kelly wasn’t hurt. Like Nelson wasn’t hurt. Like Fisher wasn’t hurt. Like Smith wasn’t hurt. Oh, and please, be sure not say a word about Pryor and Reed, and Pinter, all who did well under Strausser!! Here’s how I know how dishonest you are. You could’ve said Gugs did a very good job, while Strausser has been good but not as good. Nope. You’ve got to make false distorted arguments about players to run down Fisher and make Reich the bad guy. By the way, Glow had a very good year this year. You’ve said so in other posts. But now that you’re trying to smear Strausser, you distort again, all to fit your narrative. Lol!! Props to you that so many here buy your nonsense. I’m just not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitches Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said: Huh? If the Colts are ranked right with KC and Cincy, both of whom are in the AFC Championship, then how is our rank proof of anything? Please explain. They are not there because of their DLines, but inspite of them. I think we both know what's the primary reason they are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColtsFan Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, stitches said: They are not there because of their DLines, but inspite of them. I think we both know what's the primary reason they are there. Well…. Yeah…. We had a poor pass rush. We refuse to blitz much. And our secondary felt like it got wiped out by injuries most weeks. Other than that, it was perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitches Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said: Well…. Yeah…. We had a poor pass rush. We refuse to blitz much. And our secondary felt like it got wiped out by injuries most weeks. Other than that, it was perfect. What was perfect? The reason Baker got fired/let go is because: 1. Lack of production of the DL... the part of the team he had direct responsibility for 2. Lack of development of the DL talent provided to him which resulted in 1. This is what the graph shows. Low pressure rates, and low impact of pressures. This is why he was fired. I don't know in what way I can explain it better. I thought the graph was pretty self-explanatory. If you don't agree, tell us what's the reason he was let go, in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitches Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 4 hours ago, EastStreet said: Nah... Everyone complained about Luck holding onto the ball too long, even though he wasn't near as bad as others. In 2018, Rivers, Wentz, and Luck all had about the same time to throw. If you want to compare Luck in 2018, to Rivers in 2020, Rivers was clearly faster... But sacked more.... So by your logic, Rivers made it easier on the OL in 2020, then Luck in 2018.... Except this is NOT true for 2018. He actually drastically reduced his time to throw with Frank. Which is perfect argument for why it wasn't Luck's fault for holding the ball too much before that - he was doing what was asked of him. Luck could work in any system. He was just executing the Air-Coryell that Pagano wanted his Offensive coordinators to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtJax Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Whoever we get better be good at developing players. We just spent a 1st and 2nd on the D-line, and have a pro bowler DT we gave a 1st for. This unit should be more productive, yet we openly miss the one that got away, Autry.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDew Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 12 hours ago, richard pallo said: They are over the cap for the coming year. Jarrett is one of many of their high priced players who could be on the move. They have a lot of work to do. I think ATL is a mess, but frankly, was very impressed with the year they had considering what they had to work with, and the Calvin Ridley situation. The HC should be considered for coach of the year, and the GM some praise too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDew Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Lots of stuff said in this thread. A few comments: Once again, the three year old anti Frank hot take is desperately seeking validation. Now Frank is also the problem with the Dline not getting pressure, because his conservative values produced a low statistical blitz rate. Goodness how far do you have to go to still pull out the anti-Frank narrative? Lewis had a great year. Showed signs of being developed by the DL coach. Did AQM have his best year? Paye is a rook, and did what he did in college, no sacks but applied pressure and stopped the run. Dayo was coming off of injury. Autry and Houston are not here, which is neither the fault of Frank or Baker. Looks like Baker might be a scapegoat. If you don't have Mahomes or Allen, then a team needs to have a better dline than KC or BUF. Examine Lucks 2018 year in halves. First half vs second half. Which also coincides with a losing record vs winning record. You might find that Lucks snap to pass ratio was very much pro-Frank and very low in the first half of 2018. He was still unsure of the shoulder and wasn't taking deep shots. And AC was injured making the Oline porous and Luck looked to get rid of the ball. Then midseason Luck chucked away the short passing game and reverted back to looking down field for deeper shots. Because that's how he wants to play the game, not because of Chud, Pagano, Pep. The offense took off and the Colts went on a winning streak. Its why Ebron had a good year overall catching intermediate passes and the reason that a WR named Inman had a good year as a decent intermediate #2WR. Luck chucked the root of Frank's O and became Luck again....then faked a leg injury and retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvan1973 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, DougDew said: Lots of stuff said in this thread. A few comments: Once again, the three year old anti Frank hot take is desperately seeking validation. Now Frank is also the problem with the Dline not getting pressure, because his conservative values produced a low statistical blitz rate. Goodness how far do you have to go to still pull out the anti-Frank narrative? Lewis had a great year. Showed signs of being developed by the DL coach. Did AQM have his best year? Paye is a rook, and did what he did in college, no sacks but applied pressure and stopped the run. Dayo was coming off of injury. Autry and Houston are not here, which is neither the fault of Frank or Baker. Looks like Baker might be a scapegoat. If you don't have Mahomes or Allen, then a team needs to have a better dline than KC or BUF. Examine Lucks 2018 year in halves. First half vs second half. Which also coincides with a losing record vs winning record. You might find that Lucks snap to pass ratio was very much pro-Frank and very low in the first half of 2018. He was still unsure of the shoulder and wasn't taking deep shots. And AC was injured making the Oline porous and Luck looked to get rid of the ball. Then midseason Luck chucked away the short passing game and reverted back to looking down field for deeper shots. Because that's how he wants to play the game, not because of Chud, Pagano, Pep. The offense took off and the Colts went on a winning streak. Its why Ebron had a good year overall catching intermediate passes and the reason that a WR named Inman had a good year as a decent intermediate #2WR. Luck chucked the root of Frank's O and became Luck again....then faked a leg injury and retired. What complete nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDew Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said: What complete nonsense LOL. The Colts performed MRIs several times, and never could find anything. It was a mysterious injury that caused too much pain to play...or Luck's concern about aggravating..,, that the doctors never supported with facts. Other than to say..."sometimes thing like this happen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitches Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, DougDew said: Lots of stuff said in this thread. A few comments: Once again, the three year old anti Frank hot take is desperately seeking validation. Now Frank is also the problem with the Dline not getting pressure, because his conservative values produced a low statistical blitz rate. Goodness how far do you have to go to still pull out the anti-Frank narrative? Lewis had a great year. Showed signs of being developed by the DL coach. Did AQM have his best year? Paye is a rook, and did what he did in college, no sacks but applied pressure and stopped the run. Dayo was coming off of injury. Autry and Houston are not here, which is neither the fault of Frank or Baker. Looks like Baker might be a scapegoat. If you don't have Mahomes or Allen, then a team needs to have a better dline than KC or BUF. Examine Lucks 2018 year in halves. First half vs second half. Which also coincides with a losing record vs winning record. You might find that Lucks snap to pass ratio was very much pro-Frank and very low in the first half of 2018. He was still unsure of the shoulder and wasn't taking deep shots. And AC was injured making the Oline porous and Luck looked to get rid of the ball. Then midseason Luck chucked away the short passing game and reverted back to looking down field for deeper shots. Because that's how he wants to play the game, not because of Chud, Pagano, Pep. The offense took off and the Colts went on a winning streak. Its why Ebron had a good year overall catching intermediate passes and the reason that a WR named Inman had a good year as a decent intermediate #2WR. Luck chucked the root of Frank's O and became Luck again....then faked a leg injury and retired. Irsay's tweet video is about a man, who is facing danger, relying upon his gut feeling, his intuition, his perception, his faith (lower case f); and rejecting an expert with better "credentials". I hope that his personal values for things like things doesn't influence who he wants the Colts QB to be. I'd think a lot of fans would stop financially supporting the Colts if is little personal life wisdoms start meddling with the team too much. Do we want to talk with FACTS actually or do we want to spew nonsense? Here's the average time to throw for Luck for the first 8 games in 2018 - 2.64 Average time to throw for the last 8 games - 2.63! So... he actually threw faster in the second half of the year!!! Come on! Stop with this nonsense. There was a difference in the way Luck played in the 1st half vs 2nd half of the 2018 season. That difference was NOT about him executing Reich's offense in one part of the season or reverting to old Luck in the second part. That difference was in the pass-protection in the two parts of the season - in the first half of the season the OL was still in shambles, AC was injured, Braden Smith had not been introduced to the starting spot. The OL in its current form didn't take shape until week 6. This was why Frank wanted Luck to spam short passes - because we were bad both in pass pro and in run blocking. Thus we relied on Luck to execute quick reads and keep the offense moving with dink and dunk type of offense. In the second half the OL stabilized itself, and the playbook was opened a bit, we started taking more and more intermediate and long shots out of RPOs and PA passes but WITHOUT actually sacrificing the quick read passing game. And Luck was getting his mojo back too after having missed almost 2 years without playing. If you cannot tell the difference between that second half of 2018 and the Pagano years, then I don't really know what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDew Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, stitches said: Do we want to talk with FACTS actually or do we want to spew nonsense? Here's the average time to throw for Luck for the first 8 games in 2018 - 2.64 Average time to throw for the last 8 games - 2.63! So... he actually threw faster in the second half of the year!!! Come on! Stop with this nonsense. There was a difference in the way Luck played in the 1st half vs 2nd half of the 2018 season. That difference was NOT about him executing Reich's offense in one part of the season or reverting to old Luck in the second part. That difference was in the pass-protection in the two parts of the season - in the first half of the season the OL was still in shambles, AC was injured, Braden Smith had not been introduced to the starting spot. The OL in its current form didn't take shape until week 6. This was why Frank wanted Luck to spam short passes - because we were bad both in pass pro and in run blocking. Thus we relied on Luck to execute quick reads and keep the offense moving with dink and dunk type of offense. In the second half the OL stabilized itself, and the playbook was opened a bit, we started taking more and more intermediate and long shots out of RPOs and PA passes but WITHOUT actually sacrificing the quick passing game. If you cannot tell the difference between that second half of 2018 and the Pagano years, then I don't really know what to tell you. Luck threw the ball to Ebron and Inman down the field farther. Its not going to look the same as Chud, but Luck abandoned the dink and dunk as he got more confidence in his shoulder and oline. He did more of what he wanted to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvan1973 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, DougDew said: LOL. The Colts performed MRIs several times, and never could find anything. It was a mysterious injury that caused too much pain to play...or Luck's concern about aggravating..,, that the doctors never supported with facts. Other than to say..."sometimes thing like this happen." Wrong. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/andrew-luck-injury-details-regular-season-games-2019-8%3famp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDew Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said: Wrong. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/andrew-luck-injury-details-regular-season-games-2019-8%3famp Right. That was after weeks of finding nothing. That's when Irsay started to cover for him. It took them weeks to find something that they could say was wrong. The writer put it in "quotes" to make sure the reader knows the injury was a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvan1973 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, DougDew said: Right. That was after weeks of finding nothing. That's when Irsay started to cover for him. It took them weeks to find something that they could say was wrong. The writer put it in "quotes" to make sure the reader knows the injury was a mystery. Directly from the article "in March, an MRI revealed a calf strain in Luck's right leg." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 12 hours ago, coming on strong said: he made all pro for the rookie team . to be fair it was a weak draft class for DEs that is why the first DE was taken around 18 th . DE is a premium position and usually goes much earlier in the draft . the jury is still out there on paye 5 sacks is solid for a rookie . my only fear is he will be what he was in college a complete DE who plays hard but struggles to put up sack numbers . he was a 5 sack average guy in college that is why he fell to the colts . guys like lewis and turray are around 5 to 6 sacks a year guys but just cant stay healthy . for paye to be worth a first he needs to be a ten sack a year type guy . hopefully he breaks out like pittman did his second year . i am mixed on paye i think he has the potential to be elite but i wonder if he can put up big sack numbers when he struggled to do it in college . I spent a lot of time watching him game film last year. Not his highlights, but actual film. He was moved all over the place for Michigan. Mostly though, he was asked to set the edge and the play the run. But he was consistent. This year, he was in the back field a ton more than he got sacks for. He was just a split second off many times. I think if we can get someone opposite of him to start pressuring, they’re not gonna be able to chip him as often. Besides, Bill Polian himself once said it can take 3 years for a DE to fully develop. And that it’s rare for a rookie to light it up. The Dwight Freeneys are rare and expensive. And draft position means nothing really. We’ve seen DEs taken in the top 5 bust out. And we’ve seen others taken way down the list become HoFers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 11 hours ago, GoColts8818 said: He wasn’t all pro. He was named to the PFWA all rookie team. Still an accomplishment and he had a very good rookie season. Also, just to continue the point you are making he wasn’t over drafted in fact many felt he slipped to the Colts. Dayo had first round grade but was hurt which is why he lasted until the second. Everyone knew going in anything he gave the Colts this year would be a bonus which is why Ballard talked delayed gratification with him. Grover was taken in the fourth round and has turned into a run stuffing starter so I don’t think you can call that over drafted, if anything that’s a great value pick. Buckner was a trade and well worth a first round pick. Turay and Banogu were slight reaches on where they were mocked. Lewis is the only major reach and he’s played pretty well the past two years when healthy. Sorry for the misspeak. But yes, I agree. I also think his work ethic, if as high as reported, combined with his desire to be the best for his mom, I think he’s only gonna get better, barring injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDew Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, jvan1973 said: Directly from the article "in March, an MRI revealed a calf strain in Luck's right leg." Right. March. The mysterious calf injury, with rest, lasted through the summer and into preseason. Then he quit. There was a time when the fans were logically wondering how long a resting calf strain could keep someone from playing in August, since players normally might have them during the season and then play in a few weeks. That's why the article was written, people were wondering what is going on with a minor calf strain back in March. When that chatter started during the summer TCs and preseason, that's when Irsay started floating the mysterious "bone issue" and "ankle problem" to subdue the idea that something was going on with his Face of the Franchise. Ballard never bought into it, and pretty much let Irsay do the talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwing BBZ Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 44 minutes ago, DougDew said: Lots of stuff said in this thread. A few comments: Once again, the three year old anti Frank hot take is desperately seeking validation. Now Frank is also the problem with the Dline not getting pressure, because his conservative values produced a low statistical blitz rate. Goodness how far do you have to go to still pull out the anti-Frank narrative? Lewis had a great year. Showed signs of being developed by the DL coach. Did AQM have his best year? Paye is a rook, and did what he did in college, no sacks but applied pressure and stopped the run. Dayo was coming off of injury. Autry and Houston are not here, which is neither the fault of Frank or Baker. Looks like Baker might be a scapegoat. If you don't have Mahomes or Allen, then a team needs to have a better dline than KC or BUF. Examine Lucks 2018 year in halves. First half vs second half. Which also coincides with a losing record vs winning record. You might find that Lucks snap to pass ratio was very much pro-Frank and very low in the first half of 2018. He was still unsure of the shoulder and wasn't taking deep shots. And AC was injured making the Oline porous and Luck looked to get rid of the ball. Then midseason Luck chucked away the short passing game and reverted back to looking down field for deeper shots. Because that's how he wants to play the game, not because of Chud, Pagano, Pep. The offense took off and the Colts went on a winning streak. Its why Ebron had a good year overall catching intermediate passes and the reason that a WR named Inman had a good year as a decent intermediate #2WR. Luck chucked the root of Frank's O and became Luck again....then faked a leg injury and retired. Always enjoy your pespective Doug. But... Pro Football reference... defensive stats... #631 Tyquan Lewis Now i have had never given up hope the Lewis good be a really solid DE. Inspite of what i see as an error in Ballards judgement that he had quality DT rush potential, at his ideal DE weight which would be 270<. Tyquan has no production in 4 years. And in his largely backup role in 8 games last season had 2.5 sacks and 7 pressures. There seems nothing much there based on the eye test, past history, and his stats. A real shame. I would label it as a questionable decision by Ballard and his peeps based on what Ballard projected of him. Of course AQM shows up every week, and he did accumulate decent stats. But it absolutely reminds me of Mathis, racing down behind the line of scrimmage while way too often giving up his duty to protect his edge. Ugh!! Paye had 4 sacks and a dismal 16 pressures. Yes, for a Rook he did a great job protecting his edge. That was just part of our extremely passive, ineffective pass rush. Ebs whole bag is trying to win the turnover battle. And the talking heads, including former coaches claim that as what will win most competively even games. I guess i end by saying we need better play by our ends, Okereke, much better safety play, and at least that 2nd very good corner. Not asking much huh? Goooooo Colts! Stallworth had 3 sacks and 13 pressures!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, DougDew said: Right. March. The mysterious calf injury, with rest, lasted through the summer and into preseason. Then he quit. There was a time when the fans were logically wondering how long a resting calf strain could keep someone from playing in August, since players normally might have them during the season and then play in a few weeks. That's why the article was written, people were wondering what is going on with a minor calf strain back in March. When that chatter started during the summer TCs and preseason, that's when Irsay started floating the mysterious "bone issue" and "ankle problem" to subdue the idea that something was going on with his Face of the Franchise. Ballard never bought into it, and pretty much let Irsay do the talking. Hmm I’m not gonna rehash all this about a guy who obviously just lost the desire to play. Period. Be it from injury or something else, it doesn’t matter going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwing BBZ Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, csmopar said: I spent a lot of time watching him game film last year. Not his highlights, but actual film. He was moved all over the place for Michigan. Mostly though, he was asked to set the edge and the play the run. But he was consistent. This year, he was in the back field a ton more than he got sacks for. He was just a split second off many times. I think if we can get someone opposite of him to start pressuring, they’re not gonna be able to chip him as often. Besides, Bill Polian himself once said it can take 3 years for a DE to fully develop. And that it’s rare for a rookie to light it up. The Dwight Freeneys are rare and expensive. And draft position means nothing really. We’ve seen DEs taken in the top 5 bust out. And we’ve seen others taken way down the list become HoFers. How effective a DE is has a great correlation to how effective the guy beside him is. Grover is a complete Dud at getting a QB off his spot. Stallworth had 13 pressures to Payes whopping 16. Unfortuately Stallworth got gashed in the run game to much IMO. We need a Booger!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, throwing BBZ said: How effective a DE is has a great correlation to how effective the guy beside him is. Grover is a complete Dud at getting a QB off his spot. Stallworth had 13 pressures to Payes whopping 16. Unfortuately Stallworth got gashed in the run game to much IMO. We need a Booger!! I’m sure the DL is being examined heavily. Especially with the DL coach being fired. I think Flus will be gone, be it a job offer or a firing if all the openings start closing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougDew Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said: Always enjoy your pespective Doug. But... Pro Football reference... defensive stats... #631 Tyquan Lewis Now i have had never given up hope the Lewis good be a really solid DE. Inspite of what i see as an error in Ballards judgement that he had quality DT rush potential, at his ideal DE weight which would be 270<. Tyquan has no production in 4 years. And in his largely backup role in 8 games last season had 2.5 sacks and 7 pressures. There seems nothing much there based on the eye test, past history, and his stats. A real shame. I would label it as a questionable decision by Ballard and his peeps based on what Ballard projected of him. Of course AQM shows up every week, and he did accumulate decent stats. But it absolutely reminds me of Mathis, racing down behind the line of scrimmage while way too often giving up his duty to protect his edge. Ugh!! Paye had 4 sacks and a dismal 16 pressures. Yes, for a Rook he did a great job protecting his edge. That was just part of our extremely passive, ineffective pass rush. Ebs whole bag is trying to win the turnover battle. And the talking heads, including former coaches claim that as what will win most competively even games. I guess i end by saying we need better play by our ends, Okereke, much better safety play, and at least that 2nd very good corner. Not asking much huh? Goooooo Colts! Stallworth had 3 sacks and 13 pressures!! Those are facts for sure. But what is the cause? The thread implies that Baker is the reason for the poor performance. That he does not get the maximum usage of talent. I was merely pointing out that marginally talented guys like AQM and Lewis have improved their play this season. Granted, its a step back from Autry and Houston, but that step back speaks to a reduction in abilities from one player to the next, not poor coaching. And the questions about Paye were sack production at Michigan. He's been the same player he was in college. While it could be said that he did not receive sufficient coaching from Baker to take the next step, he is a rookie and it takes some time to develop more abilities than what someone shows in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csmopar Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, DougDew said: Those are facts for sure. But what is the cause? The thread implies that Baker is the reason for the poor performance. That he does not get the maximum usage of talent. I was merely pointing out that marginally talented guys like AQM and Lewis have improved their play this season. Granted, its a step back from Autry and Houston, but that step back speaks to a reduction in abilities from one player to the next, not poor coaching. And the questions about Paye were sack production at Michigan. He's been the same player he was in college. While it could be said that he did not receive sufficient coaching from Baker to take the next step, he is a rookie and it takes some time to develop more abilities than what someone shows in college. I think it’s a combination of not bad coaching, but marginal coaching combined with bad scheming and play calling . Plus, we may have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes between the team and its coaches too. the trouble we have is our coaches aren’t BAD and definitely ARE NOT terrible. They’re just not quite good enough. My fear is, it’s often harder to upgrade from an average or slightly above average coach than it is to upgrade from a bad or terrible coach. So we have to chose very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restinpeacesweetchloe Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 Does anyone know if Flus contract has expired . Apparently bakers contract was up and they decided just not to retain him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwing BBZ Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, csmopar said: I’m sure the DL is being examined heavily. Especially with the DL coach being fired. I think Flus will be gone, be it a job offer or a firing if all the openings start closing. After 4 years a new voice and a little change in direction is often good. If he doesn't get a HC job maybe he goes back to Dallas. I would take a 2nd rounder for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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