Brian Baker out as dline coach

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Does anyone know if Flus contract has expoeed. Apparently bakers contract was up

and they decided just not to retain him.

No

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I think it’s a combination of not bad coaching, but marginal coaching combined with bad scheming and play calling . Plus, we may have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes between the team and its coaches too.  
 

the trouble we have is our coaches aren’t BAD and definitely ARE NOT terrible. They’re just not quite good enough. My fear is, it’s often harder to upgrade from an average or slightly above average coach than it is to upgrade from a bad or terrible coach. So we have to chose very carefully. 

Then fire everybody on defense if its scheme.  Specifically to the dline, its obvious that there was a drop off in talent from Autry/Houston to AQM/Lewis/Paye and Dayo.   Many of us knew this going into the season.

 

Why is that Baker's fault?   Scapegoat?  

 

I'm not a big Grover fan, but he rated well and may have had his highest rated season.  Forgot to mention him.

 

I saw plenty of stunts that didn't work when called.  I saw many blitzes that didn't work when called.  I saw DEs dropping into coverage and getting burned in coverage (although Lewis made a pick while dropping back). 

 

I saw plenty of different dline play calls.

[ChuggaBeer]

11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

There's also some evidence to suggest a few regressed under Strausser.... And even in 2019 and 2020, when Strausser had a very healthy OL, his sack total has never been better than Gug's 2018 (which was full of musical chairs the first 5-6 weeks)... 

 

But I would agree Strausser is not on the hot seat, but there's plenty to suggest is simply not as good as Gug... He's Reich's guy, and is nice. 

• Ryan Kelly has steadily regressed little by little since his 2018... Hit a career best with Gug....
  • 2016 - 72.4 (Philbin/Gilbert)
  • 2017 - 60.4 (Philbin/Gilbert)
  • 2018 - 74.5 (DeGuglielmo) - Career high grade
  • 2019 - 73.0 (Strausser)
  • 2020 - 69.0 (Strausser)
  • 2021 - 56.9 (Strausser)
• Glow's performance is punch you in the face best with Gug..... 
  • 2015 - 50.2 (Gilbert/Hunter)
  • 2016 - 61.4 (Philbin/Gilbert)
  • 2017 - 52.8 (Philbin/Gilbert)
  • 2018 - 77.7 and 0 sacks (DeGuglielmo)
  • 2019 - 60.5 (Strausser)
  • 2020 - 67.3 (Strausser)
  • 2021 - 70.1 (Strausser) - took getting challenged by Reed to drive his grade up
• Sacks....
  • 2017 - 56
  • 2018 - 18 (amid all the musical chairs and rooks....) with Gug... And a high Time to Throw QB... 
  • 2019 - 32
  • 2020 - 21 (even with one of the quickest trigger QBs, still was not as good as 2018)
  • 2021 - 32
• I'd also point out that DeGuglielmo
  • Architect'd our current OL. Aside from AC, and maybe Kelly, nothing was in stone (who and where) when Gug was given the task. 
  • In just 5-6 weeks of musical chairs, took the 25th ranked OL from 2017 and turned it into 3rd best ranked, an a sack total that is probably the best in 10+ years... 
  • Took a college guard (Smith) and turned him into a All-Rook RT in his first year... bold move
  • Both Rooks (Q and Smith) had more starts than any other OL on the team that year.... 
  • Q - grew up with Harry Hiestand, a nasty driver like Gug, and was going to be a stud regardless of who was OL coach... What is interesting... Notre Dame got rid of mean old Harry, and hired a nice guy... They have now ditched the nice guy after several years, and hired mean-old-Harry back... 
  • Getting a 77.7 out of Glow after the musical chairs ended, is pretty phenomenal... wasn't near that good before, or after... 

Ok. Am I the only one that sees the correlation  between who the QB is and Oline play in these stats?Am I missing something?

 

2016  Luck

2017.  JB

2018.  Luck

2019.  JB

2020. Rivers

2021.  Wentz

[lincolndefan]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The reason is injuries. 
 

Fisher, Nelson and Kelly all missed 90-100 of camp.   And as soon as they got back, Smith went out.   
 

Kelly played hurt the entire year.  Nelson went from a broken bone in his foot to a high ankle sprain, the worst sprain.   And Fisher, normally a solid LT,  simply didn’t return to full strength in time.   Sucks for us.  But that doesn’t mean he won’t be better next year.  But for which team? 
 

I believe Strausser is VERY highly regarded. 

 

O.k., not disputing what your saying. However, my question is why were they playing then? I mean the idea is to win games right? Please don't tell me it was because of their salary! The backups played well enough till the starters became fully healthy all except Fisher. I don't know guys, i have been watching Colts games for a very long time, but what i'm seeing is poor coaching. To much favoritism and to much loyalty to players. When your backups show their capable then for crap sakes let the starters rest and heal! To me that's part of locker room cohesiveness.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Like that tweet I posted yesterday don’t be afraid of change. Rock had one of his best years with a new DB coach. Rodgers played like a vet. It’s a good thing to have change when something isn’t working.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Ok. Am I the only one that sees the correlation  between who the QB is and Oline play in these stats?Am I missing something?

 

2016  Luck

2017.  JB

2018.  Luck

2019.  JB

2020. Rivers

2021.  Wentz

He likes to blame the oline. They had a lot of injuries this year so yes some of that affected  their play. But most of this is on Wentz. Not getting ball quick and not recognizing blitzes ect.  

[lincolndefan]

11 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Yet Gug’s has been fired by two more organizations and is coaching at Louisiana Tech. Reich didn’t want him for some reason we aren’t privy to know.  

 

If you want the Colts to play aggressive, in your face, mean and tough football then you need coaches like Gugs! So the other coaches or players had their feelings hurt. Wow! this is football! OTOH, if you want to play Franks kind of football which is nice and dainty and coddle the coaches and players then WELL your witnessing the Colts first hand! Hold the coaches and players accountable and give them respect. Show and tell them what's expected from them! If they don't live up to expectations then they are gone! Simple as that!  For pete's sake this is not rocket science! Sorry, Frank is a nice guy but he is not a football coach!

[chickenMan]

Hire a new DL coach and pair them with Robert Mathis as an assistant, that’s my idea

[GoColts8818]

46 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

Hire a new DL coach and pair them with Robert Mathis as an assistant, that’s my idea

The Colts had Mathis in a role like that for year and walked away after a year because it wasn’t for him.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, chickenMan said:

Hire a new DL coach and pair them with Robert Mathis as an assistant, that’s my idea

He can’t work with players all year long so he quit his paid position with the colts. The NFLPA only allows them to work with players at certain times. Now he can work with them whenever. I think he is still involved just not paid. He used to sit down with Houston to go over how to best pass rush every week against certain opponents.

[coming on strong]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

I spent a lot of time watching him game film last year. Not his highlights, but actual film. He was moved all over the place for Michigan. Mostly though, he was asked to set the edge and the play the run. But he was consistent. 
 

This year, he was in the back field a ton more than he got sacks for. He was just a split second off many times. I think if we can get someone opposite of him to start pressuring, they’re not gonna be able to chip him as often.  
 

Besides, Bill Polian himself once said it can take 3 years for a DE to fully develop. And that it’s rare for a rookie to light it up. The Dwight Freeneys are rare and expensive. And draft position means nothing really. We’ve seen DEs taken in the top 5 bust out. And we’ve seen others taken way down the list become HoFers. 

i agree with you  i think also his defense taught the read and react which hurt his numbers in college .   the problem is we wont know yet for sure if he will be a elite player  .    i jumped on the turray bandwagon when he started flashing in 2019 and he never became elite .  i am just not getting my hopes up yet until i see him get around 10 sacks in a season .

[EastStreet]

15 hours ago, stitches said:

Except this is NOT true for 2018. He actually drastically reduced his time to throw with Frank. Which is perfect argument for why it wasn't Luck's fault for holding the ball too much before that - he was doing what was asked of him. Luck could work in any system. He was just executing the Air-Coryell that Pagano wanted his Offensive coordinators to run. 

Luck did speed things up in 2018 (more early season than late season), but he still had a decent range between games. He was quicker early season than later season, which makes sense (OL was musical chairs early). Also, averages for the year, were almost identical (in 2018) to both Rivers and Wentz. And as far as scheme goes, he did shorten his game early but still chucked it enough. His IAY in 2018 was only a yard off 2016, and he had plenty of variation within the year. His game 1 and 16, were both higher than his 2016 IAY average. 

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah….  Like Kelly wasn’t hurt.  Like Nelson wasn’t hurt.   Like Fisher wasn’t hurt.  Like Smith wasn’t hurt. 
 

Oh, and please, be sure not say a word about Pryor and Reed, and Pinter, all who did well under Strausser!!  
 

Here’s how I know how dishonest you are.  
 

You could’ve said Gugs did a very good job, while Strausser has been good but not as good.   Nope.   You’ve got to make false distorted arguments about players to run down Fisher and make Reich the bad guy. 

By the way,  Glow had a very good year this year.   You’ve said so in other posts. But now that you’re trying to smear Strausser, you distort again, all to fit your narrative.   Lol!!

 

Props to you that so many here buy your nonsense.  I’m just not one of them. 

LOL... so this year's injuries explains drop off in very healthy 2019 and 2020s.. 

Again, you didn't address the 3 elements I laid out. 

 

And yes, Glow had a good year. He didn't raise his game till he was challenged by Reed.

Pryor was a late add from another team. Reed wasn't developed under Strauser either... Not sure what Strausser had to do with either lol.... Ballard deserves props for finding them. 

 

Fisher is not good in pass pro... There's enough non-2021 film out there... but hey, keep pounding that drum.

 

PS... I don't care what you buy. You don't have to read my posts.... But I know you love getting triggered, so you can't help yourself. But you be you. Gushin' and fluffin'... 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Ok. Am I the only one that sees the correlation  between who the QB is and Oline play in these stats?Am I missing something?

 

2016  Luck

2017.  JB

2018.  Luck

2019.  JB

2020. Rivers

2021.  Wentz

lol...

OK, I'll play... and I'll keep it super simple... 

Two QBs... Two years each.....

Each had the same OL ranks... 

Does JB = Luck? 

 

2016  Luck - 25th

2017.  JB - 25th

2018.  Luck - 3rd

2019.  JB - 3rd

 

[ChuggaBeer]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

lol...

OK, I'll play... and I'll keep it super simple... 

Two QBs... Two years each.....

Each had the same OL ranks... 

Does JB = Luck? 

 

2016  Luck - 25th. Philbin

2017.  JB - 25th. Philbin

2018.  Luck - 3rd. Guges

2019.  JB - 3rd.    Strausser

 

Here's another one ever simpler.

 

Does.  Strauss= Guge?

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Here's another one ever simpler.

 

Does.  Strauss= Guge?

No... he doesn't...

 

But that's off topic... so let's try to stay and finish what we started.

 

In the grades I listed,,,,, both JB and Luck, had OLs graded 3rd and 25th. 

That's a huge Delta for both.

 

It illustrates clearly that level of QB doesn't always translate to OL... 

JB was not great, and had a high time to throw. Yet the OL was both good and bad with him...

Luck was considered good, wasn't really "quick", but wasn't slow either.... Had both good and bad OLs.... 

 

A quick QB can help an OL look better than they really are. But they also can't hide a bad OL. Rivers had one of the quickest triggers in the NFL, and read Ds better than most QBs... He still had plenty of bad OLs in Cali.

[ChuggaBeer]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

No... he doesn't...

 

But that's off topic... so let's try to stay and finish what we started.

 

In the grades I listed,,,,, both JB and Luck, had OLs graded 3rd and 25th. 

That's a huge Delta for both.

 

It illustrates clearly that level of QB doesn't always translate to OL... 

JB was not great, and had a high time to throw. Yet the OL was both good and bad with him...

Luck was considered good, wasn't really "quick", but wasn't slow either.... Had both good and bad OLs.... 

 

A quick QB can help an OL look better than they really are. But they also can't hide a bad OL. Rivers had one of the quickest triggers in the NFL, and read Ds better than most QBs... He still had plenty of bad OLs in Cali.

No No No.    Lets go back to what you posted.   You had stats for Kelly and Glow and sacks.   And who the DC's were

There was no mention of 3rd ranked and 25th ranked lines.

 

Out of those grades for those players.     When Luck was playing their starts were the best no matter who the coach was

and when it was JB the scores were lowest for each coach.

 

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

No No No.    Lets go back to what you posted.   You had stats for Kelly and Glow and sacks.   And who the DC's were

There was no mention of 3rd ranked and 25th ranked lines.

 

Out of those grades for those players.     When Luck was playing their starts were the best no matter who the coach was

and when it was JB the scores were lowest for each coach.

 

You're trying to side step clear and obvious stuff.

 

So answer the following, and I'll happily go down whatever other rabbit hole you want....

 

Given the OL grades for JB and Luck (over 4 years, both having highs and low OL), it's obvious that OL and QB play don't always "correlate"... correct?

[ChuggaBeer]

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

1.  You're trying to side step clear and obvious stuff.

 

2.  So answer the following, and I'll happily go down whatever other rabbit hole you want....

 

3.  Given the OL grades for JB and Luck (over 4 years, both having highs and low OL), it's obvious that OL and QB play don't always "correlate"... correct?

1.   I am not side side stepping anything.  I am STILL talking about the post I quoted you on from the bottom of page 2.  Your post was in response to Superman's post about play calling and  QBing makes a difference in protection.

 

2.  I'm not going down a rabbit hole. I am still talking about the original quote   Your quote 

 

3.  overall OL grades were not part of your quote.   The 3 things in your quote  were Kelly's grades with 3 different coaches, Glow's grades with those coaches and sacks with those coaches.  In your quote with those examples  YES the QB did make a difference.   Kelly, Glow and Sacks were ALL better with Luck when compared to the same coach.    The BEST yr was when Gug was the coach was also when Luck was the QB.    We cannot do a comparison with Gugs with another QB here.  But he did have the better QB.

 

If you don't see or can't admit that QB play does in fact contribute to Oline play then I don't know what to tell you.  If you asked any of those coaches or players they would say differently 

 

This is my last post on this topic as I think it is highjacking this thread. And also I don't think you will or can see anyone else's opinions on this.  Or really anything.  You get your head set on something and you think you are right and there is no discussing that you could be wrong.  

 

You make some good posts and you are not always right   but you are always bull headed. 

 

Q

 

 

 

 

[csmopar]

On 1/27/2022 at 4:22 PM, coming on strong said:

i agree with you  i think also his defense taught the read and react which hurt his numbers in college .   the problem is we wont know yet for sure if he will be a elite player  .    i jumped on the turray bandwagon when he started flashing in 2019 and he never became elite .  i am just not getting my hopes up yet until i see him get around 10 sacks in a season .

Fair enough. And as big a Paye fan as I am, I completely agree. It’s too early to tell just yet. The kid though has the potential. I see a lot of an early Robert Mathis in his play style and skill set now, now can he develop that ? That’s the question but like I said, he’s got the work ethnic and desire to do it. Injuries is the one thing I worry about