Context for Wentz Critics

[Les Poulains]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

So you don't like QBR which accounts for a ton of factors

You don't like a ton of yards.

You don't accept context of a bad OL (gave up a season high 5th sack just a minute ago, and still plenty of time)

You don't accept context of mediocre pass catchers.

 

Radio guys have commented multiple times on the last two today. 

 

I accept some of the context. You clearly didn't read my initial post. Wentz may have some valid excuses, that doesn't mean he's been good. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Idc what he said,  it's what you said,  top 5 Oline and Pass Catchers. 

 

They have one WR and a TE above 1k. The rest below 700 and an RB in the top 5 accounting for nearly 500 of their yards.  

 

Oh look,  another over throw. 

 

The Colts are second in rushing.  You know how many top 10 passing offenses are also in top 10 rushing?  One,  the cowboys.  

 

So don't try to compare our total receiving stats to others to justify your point when the Colts aren't a passing team. 

I would argue Romo was a good QB. 

 

KC has a top 5 OL.

KC has a 2 pass catchers that are 1000+ and are #2 in yards... Name 5 teams that have a better one-two combo

 

 

[Sorry team]

Does Wentz have a single year contract or are Colts committed to him for multiple years?

This is so disappointing.  I think we’re stuck with the play caller.  ☹️

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Les Poulains said:

I accept some of the context. You clearly didn't read my initial post. Wentz may have some valid excuses, that doesn't mean he's been good. 

He's not been good today. 

But when you have an OL that is giving up a season high in sacks, there's simply valid context/excuse. 

 

NOW a 6th sack... 

[Narcosys]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

So you don't like QBR which accounts for a ton of factors

You don't like a ton of yards.

You don't accept context of a bad OL (gave up a season high 5th sack just a minute ago, and still plenty of time)

You don't accept context of mediocre pass catchers.

 

Radio guys have commented multiple times on the last two today. 

 

You have to look at the individual. 

 

Has his OLine struggled. Sure, but he has time to get rid of the ball or actually throw to ac receiver and he doesn't.  I don't put it all on pass catchers because he consistently throws high. So you have to look at what he does when he does throw.  As a QB, he is not good, and not nearly as good of a QB as you make him out to be.  Even when he has time,  he struggles to complete passes,  even easy ones.  Which the commentators have commented more on than anything. 

[Narcosys]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

KC has a top 5 OL.

KC has a 2 pass catchers that are 1000+ and are #2 in yards... Name 5 teams that have a better one-two combo

 

 

This again? 

 

I just told you why that's ridiculous to try and compare.  They aren't built to run,  and we aren't built to pass.  

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

You have to look at the individual. 

 

Has his OLine struggled. Sure, but he has time to get rid of the ball or actually throw to ac receiver and he doesn't.  I don't put it all on pass catchers because he consistently throws high. So you have to look at what he does when he does throw.  As a QB, he is not good, and not nearly as good of a QB as you make him out to be.  Even when he has time,  he struggles to complete passes,  even easy ones.  Which the commentators have commented more on than anything. 

 

In no world would anyone, and I mean anyone, say we have an above average group of pass catchers.

In no world has our OL played well. 6 sacks today.

 

Those are both huge impacts to QB play. Until those things change, there will be legit context. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

This again? 

 

I just told you why that's ridiculous to try and compare.  They aren't built to run,  and we aren't built to pass.  

 

It's simple stuff. You try to avoid the simple stuff... 

 

But at least you admit we aren't built to pass. Which obviously makes it hard on a QB lol... 

[Les Poulains]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He's not been good today. 

But when you have an OL that is giving up a season high in sacks, there's simply valid context/excuse. 

 

NOW a 6th sack... 

Yeah, few are denying the supporting cast isn't amazing. I said that in the first place, along with the lack of preseason. I just think the stats mean almost nothing. They're flawed, they can be cherry picked. They don't reflect how Wentz has played.

 

Would be easier if you simply read the posts in the first place so this wouldn't have to be reiterated.

[Narcosys]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

In no world would anyone, and I mean anyone, say we have an above average group of pass catchers.

In no world has our OL played well. 6 sacks today.

 

Those are both huge impacts to QB play. Until those things change, there will be legit context. 

 

So you can't legitimately say Wentz is a good QB then with that same argument.  Until we get the perfect team you want,  we don't know.  

 

But as it stands, he hasn't performed well outside of those issues. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

 

So you can't legitimately say Wentz is a good QB then with that same argument.  Until we get the perfect team you want,  we don't know.  

 

But as it stands, he hasn't performed well outside of those issues. 

 

We don't need a perfect team. We need a LT that doesn't ole' pass rushers, a WR that has a bit of speed to go along with Pittman, and a play caller that doesn't try and force the same 5 plays in the -5 to 10 yards from the LOS over and over again... A D that didn't make Minshew and Lawrence look like Pro Bowlers would help too. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Pass protection has been pathetic today. That is unacceptable when your paying them that much.

[lollygagger8]

If your pass catchers aren't great, then Idk, maybe try scheming some other type of game plan instead of long developing throws or running up the middle 20x a game to try and help the QB!??! 

 

RB's are usually wide open, yet Wentz is inexplicably allergic to throwing to them. I, and others have been screaming for wheel routes all year and last. 

 

Instead of running Hines up the middle for the 40th time, Idk maybe try lining him up on the line more often because he's great at catching and it usually works when he does. 

 

We finally throw a few slants (FINALLY) they work, and then they quit throwing them. 

 

Not being able to execute a screen play (or defend one) in the NFL today is insanity to me as well. Knowing that, Reich will call it when it's 3rd and 17. 

 

Also, if you are so ridiculously stubborn and refuse to stop running up the middle, go back to an extra O-lineman and take TY out. 

[Narcosys]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

It's simple stuff. You try to avoid the simple stuff... 

 

But at least you admit we aren't built to pass. Which obviously makes it hard on a QB lol... 

It's simple minded.  

 

You really want to try and compare a team that is built to pass only to a team that is not to run predominantly? 

 

You can still have good completion % when you're built to run more.  

 

Dak, Prescott, Mac Jones, Tannehill, Murray, and Bridgwater have better comp% than Wentz and are still top 10 running teams.  

[Narcosys]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

We don't need a perfect team. We need a LT that doesn't ole' pass rushers, a WR that has a bit of speed to go along with Pittman, and a play caller that doesn't try and force the same 5 plays in the -5 to 10 yards from the LOS over and over again... A D that didn't make Minshew and Lawrence look like Pro Bowlers would help too. 

That sounds like a team with no flaws.  

 

That's called perfect. 

[stitches]

This OLine has had its troubles, but all I'm going to say is - this is practically the same OL, the same RBs, the same weapons Rivers had last year and Luck had everything worse in his last year, except OL. Just watch the damn games and tell me Wentz has played well this year, tell me those stats are a good representation of what his level of play warrants AND more importantly - what you can expect from him going forward if he continues to play like this. 

 

Wentz is not the guy. I hate watching him play for the Colts. HATE IT! Watching him play makes me miserable. It's underwhelming. It's ugly. It's disjointed, it's... miserable! I do not want to see him take one more snap for the Colts. Hell, I didn't like watching Brissett and he's a worse QB than Wentz... but I had more fun watching him than Wentz. At least there was no pretense and false hopes there and I knew noone on the Colts was actually entertaining keeping him as the long-term solution. 

 

This team is going nowhere with Wentz at QB. 

 

(Edit: BTW Wentz makes any OL issues look worse because he's a slow processor and decisionmaker)

 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

It's simple minded.  

 

You really want to try and compare a team that is built to pass only to a team that is not to run predominantly? 

 

You can still have good completion % when you're built to run more.  

 

Dak, Prescott, Mac Jones, Tannehill, Murray, and Bridgwater have better comp% than Wentz and are still top 10 running teams.  

Look at the pass catchers those guys have that you mention. 

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

That sounds like a team with no flaws.  

 

That's called perfect. 

 

So I guess KC has the perfect team... SMH... lol

[Fisticuffs111]

At the very least, we know without a doubt that he’s not gonna be a guy who can carry you to a victory. Not gonna be many comebacks with him as the QB.
 

Much better than Brissett, and likely better than anything we could realistically get. But it’s 100% a “have to be great in all other areas” situation. And even then, I think we’re gonna be on a roller coaster ride with him.

 

Oh well, he’s our guy for the foreseeable future.
 

[Narcosys]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Look at the pass catchers those guys have that you mention. 

Yes,  because the have a QB who can make accurate throws. 

 

Only the cowboys are in top 10 passing yards.  Heck,  Tennessee is 26th and worse than us, so what's your point?

 

Difference between us and TN is they have a competent qb who can be trusted to compete passes when needed.  

 

[stitches]

 

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

At the very least, we know without a doubt that he’s not gonna not gonna be a guy who can carry you to a victory. 
 

Much better than Brissett, and likely better than anything we could realistically get. But it’s 100% a “have to be great in all other areas” situation. And even then, I think we’re gonna be on a roller coaster ride with him.

 

Oh well, he’s our guy for the foreseeable future.
 

 

[Narcosys]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

So I guess KC has the perfect team... SMH... lol

Nobody is saying that.

 

You're putting up strawman arguments and trying to read into things that you want just so you can continue to try and prove yourself right. 

[Fisticuffs111]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

This OLine has had its troubles, but all I'm going to say is - this is practically the same OL, the same RBs, the same weapons Rivers had last year and Luck had everything worse in his last year, except OL. Just watch the damn games and tell me Wentz has played well this year, tell me those stats are a good representation of what his level of play warrants AND more importantly - what you can expect from him going forward if he continues to play like this. 

 

Wentz is not the guy. I hate watching him play for the Colts. HATE IT! Watching him play makes me miserable. It's underwhelming. It's ugly. It's disjointed, it's... miserable! I do not want to see him take one more snap for the Colts. Hell, I didn't like watching Brissett and he's a worse QB than Wentz... but I had more fun watching him than Wentz. At least there was no pretense and false hopes there. 

 

This team is going nowhere with Wentz at QB. 

 

(Edit: BTW Wentz makes any OL issues look worse because he's a slow processor and decisionmaker)

 

Yeah, I possibly came off even keeled in my post, but I legitimately don’t think he’s “the guy” either.

 

Just my opinion, just like it is anybody who thinks he is the guy, but I’m not excited about him being our QB.

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Look at the pass catchers those guys have that you mention. 

Rivers with noodle arm and ZERO mobility had the exact same weapons. And he looked MUCH better than Wentz in this offense. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

Yes,  because the have a QB who can make accurate throws. 

 

Only the cowboys are in top 10 passing yards.  Heck,  Tennessee is 26th and worse than us, so what's your point?

 

Difference between us and TN is they have a competent qb who can be trusted to compete passes when needed.  

 

 

Dude, Mahomes threw plenty of "off" passes the other night. Kelce and Hardman made a ton of adjustments. 

Cowboys have like the #1 OL lol, 3 good WRs and a good TE... 

TN runs an O that we should be running. But we don't... 

[Nesjan3]

Earlier in this thread I stated 3 things about Wentz that make me cringe. Decision making, mechanics and accuracy. All 3 of those things came into play today.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Nobody is saying that.

 

You're putting up strawman arguments and trying to read into things that you want just so you can continue to try and prove yourself right. 

LMAO...

You totally disregard horrible OL play and a poor pass catching group... Then want to prop up others with much better OLs and play makers...

 

It's laughable. 

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, I possibly came off even keeled in my post, but I legitimately don’t think he’s “the guy” either.

 

Just my opinion, just like it is anybody who thinks he is the guy, but I’m not excited about him being our QB.

No worries. I know exactly what you meant - like it or not, he's likely going to be our QB for the foreseeable future... And it makes me want to puke. 

[Narcosys]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

LMAO...

You totally disregard horrible OL play and a poor pass catching group... Then want to prop up others with much better OLs and play makers...

 

It's laughable. 

You have yet to say anything other than ( and I'm summing up all your posts)

 

Wentz is a great QB, but the stats don't show it because of other people, not him. 

 

That's how you're coming across, and then trying to support it by comparing things that can't be compared.

 

I haven't disregarded anything.  And you're trying to point to this one game to support your oline argument.

 

Colts are ranked 11th with Oline. The cardinals, Broncos, packers, titans, and bengals have worse Olines but better QB stats all around.  

 

 

[CoachLite]

It's really hard to judge Carson Wentz in the context of all the other team failures - especially coaching. In that regard, it was a total team effort that led to failure.

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

poor OL, poor pass catchers... and almost identical QBR and PR to Mahomes who's got both top 5 OL and pass catchers.......

But hey, you be you.

 

Mahomes gets rid of the ball and makes plays with his feet. He has something to do with his OL looking good.  

[coach kline]

15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Just a little context and comparison for all those whining about QB play.....

 

                              OL Rank   QBR      PR       TD%         INT%           ANY/A     Supporting Cast (rank)

Luck18                   #3             #5       98.7       6.1             2.3               6.95          NA

Brissett19               #3            #21     88.0       4.0            1.3               5.87           NA

Rivers20                  #7           #19      97.0      4.4             2.0              7.18            #11

Wentz21                 #16*         #8       95.8      5.3              1.2              6.72           #22 (driven up by catching RBs)

Mahomes21            #2*          #5       98.8       5.7              2.1              7.1            #13

 

Note - OL rank for 21 is through the first 3Qs (12-13 games)

 

So.....

• Wentz had no preseason
• Wentz had the worst OL of our previous 3 QBs, and way worse than KC this year
• Wentz was coming off surgery and injured early
• Wentz's supporting cast of pass catchers is just not great

 

Yet, Wentz is is top 10 in QBR, not far off from Mahomes (or Luck in 18) in QBR or PR, and has one of the best TD/INT ratios in the league...... 

ANY/A is not far off, which is a bit shocking to me given Reich's play calling. 

 

In short..

Is he perfect. No.

Is he bad. No.

Will he be better with a better and more stable OL. Very likely. 

Will he be better with improved pass catchers. Very likely.

Has he improved dramatically since last year, and improved with a mediocre OL and pass catchers...... Heck yes.... 

 

 

Folks need to chill... 

Stats mean nothing

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

You have yet to say anything other than ( and I'm summing up all your posts)

 

Wentz is a great QB, but the stats don't show it because of other people, not him. 

 

That's how you're coming across, and then trying to support it by comparing things that can't be compared.

 

I haven't disregarded anything.  And you're trying to point to this one game to support your oline argument.

 

Colts are ranked 11th with Oline. The cardinals, Broncos, packers, titans, and bengals have worse Olines but better QB stats all around.  

 

 

I've never once said Wentz is a great QB. Please quote me.

I've said he's a complimentary that has needs better OL play and better pass catchers.

 

Point to just one game? WTH... Wentz is the 2nd most hit QB in the league this year. Top 10 in pressures too. It's far from just one game. 

 

Our OL rank is 11th right now in PFF only because of our Run grade. Our pass pro ranking it bottom half.  

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

Mahomes gets rid of the ball and makes plays with his feet. He has something to do with his OL looking good.  

Mahomes has a higher TtT than Wentz. 

KC ditched Fisher, and upgraded... huh... 

[deedub75]

53 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

KC has a top 5 OL.

KC has a 2 pass catchers that are 1000+ and are #2 in yards... Name 5 teams that have a better one-two combo

 

 

 

These are valid points, but you make it seem as though Mahomes has nothing to do with these stats.  

[EastStreet]

Just now, deedub75 said:

 

These are valid points, but you make it seem as though Mahomes has nothing to do with these stats.  

KC overhauled their OL in the off season. Very specific and targeted effort by them. And like I said, part of that was dumping Fisher and upgrading. 

[poaponies]

54 minutes ago, Sorry team said:

Does Wentz have a single year contract or are Colts committed to him for multiple years?

This is so disappointing.  I think we’re stuck with the play caller.  ☹️

I believe he so coming back next year. I hope I’m wrong 

[Old Man and the COLTS]

45 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

In no world would anyone, and I mean anyone, say we have an above average group of pass catchers.

In no world has our OL played well. 6 sacks today.

 

Those are both huge impacts to QB play. Until those things change, there will be legit context. 

Is there a case to be made that at some point  Wentz makes the WRs better 
 

 

[EastStreet]

Just now, Old Man and the COLTS said:

Is there a case to be made that at some point  Wentz makes the WRs better 
 

 

Pittman is good, and Wentz and him are fine. 1000+ yards as a soph.

 

Reich has TY and Dulin running short possession routes which are going to be contested 99% of the time instead of working them in space. It's not what TY is built for. 

 

Reich prioritized Pascal's blocking and give him #1 or #2 snaps. And Pascal is fast or dynamic guy.

 

There's only so much you can make look better with those routes. 

[smittywerb]

59 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

You have to look at the individual. 

 

Has his OLine struggled. Sure, but he has time to get rid of the ball or actually throw to ac receiver and he doesn't.  I don't put it all on pass catchers because he consistently throws high. So you have to look at what he does when he does throw.  As a QB, he is not good, and not nearly as good of a QB as you make him out to be.  Even when he has time,  he struggles to complete passes,  even easy ones.  Which the commentators have commented more on than anything. 

 

you know, colts fans seem to be the only group of people who don’t see that wentz has been horrible.