The 3 year plan

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

I think i like how loaded the KC roster is and have this good vibe that Ballard can do that for us.
He was a big part of that ya know. So no thanks adding a guy that probably at best help us win a game still this season, and burn $14M next season on our way to 8-8. And then be a FA. 
Just when i expect to be getting really good in 2020. All that cash, a high draft pick gambled and poof gone. Risky.
 Seems goofy. JMO of course. But if CB likes him, go for it.

 

Great post.

 

2 hours ago, MPStack said:

Just some food for thought on the FAs next season that need to be resigned or replaced. A lot of these guys should be replaced, but that will eat some cap space and makes the three year plan look challenging IMO. 
 

 

Ryan Grant

Adam Vinatieri

Matt Slauson

Margus Hunt

Al Woods

Pierre Desir

Robert Turbin

Ryan Hewitt

Mike Mitchell

Najee Goode

J'Marcus Webb

Clayton Geathers

Mark Glowinski

Corey Moore

Chris Milton

Luke Rhodes

Jihad Ward

Evan Boehm

Ronald Martin

Denzell Good

Arthur Maulet

Erik Swoope

Al-Quadin Muhammad

Chester Rogers

Ross Travis

Matthias Farley

Zach Pascal

Brad Kaaya

Marcus Johnson

 

Most of those guys won't be on the Week 1 roster in 2019. 

[MPStack]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Great post.

 

 

Most of those guys won't be on the Week 1 roster in 2019. 

A lot turnover coming no doubt.

[Dark Superman]

The Colts been on a 3-year plan since 2011.

[Introspect]

with the first pick of the 2019 NFL Draft the Indianapolis Colts select…..

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, MPStack said:

A lot turnover coming no doubt.

 

If we wind up 2-6 in a couple weeks, or worse, I could see a couple of previously untouchable guys getting traded. Hilton comes to mind, as much as that pains me to say. 

[Introspect]

1 minute ago, Savage21 said:

The Colts been on a 3-year plan since 2011.

DAMN.... This truth is sobering

[Flash7]

Just now, Superman said:

 

If we wind up 2-6 in a couple weeks, or worse, I could see a couple of previously untouchable guys getting traded. Hilton comes to mind, as much as that pains me to say. 

Out of curiosity, how would trading T.Y. help?

[Dark Superman]

1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

Out of curiosity, how would trading T.Y. help?

It wouldn't.

[Superman]

Just now, Flash7 said:

Out of curiosity, how would trading T.Y. help?

 

If we got a combination of a couple picks or a pick and a young corner, or something like that, it could help the Colts moving forward. The offense is actually moving the ball and scoring points without Hilton right now. Maybe the Eagles would give up Sidney Jones and a 3rd... 

[Trueman]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If we got a combination of a couple picks or a pick and a young corner, or something like that, it could help the Colts moving forward. The offense is actually moving the ball and scoring points without Hilton right now. Maybe the Eagles would give up Sidney Jones and a 3rd... 

I'd take a 2nd and a 4th right now. 

That said, I'd be pretty surprised if Ballard moves Hilton, regardless of our record , but I agree with the rationale. 

I'd look at moving Sheard too. He might be able to pick up a mid-round pick.

 

[Flash7]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

If we got a combination of a couple picks or a pick and a young corner, or something like that, it could help the Colts moving forward. The offense is actually moving the ball and scoring points without Hilton right now. Maybe the Eagles would give up Sidney Jones and a 3rd... 

The option to trade for T.Y. for a couple of picks would be an easy decision for me. Its a NO.  I'd hate to trade a known, valuable commodity in T.Y. for a relatively unknown variable through the draft, all while creating a hole at the WR position. We haven't been able to find a WR #2, much less replace a WR #1.

 

As for the scenario of a trade for a player and a pick, I think our position is such that we have a lot of draft picks already and have the most cap space in all of the NFL. I would rather we keep T.Y. and use our picks and cap space to continue the build, than to get rid of one of best players.

 

I know that you are not advocating for the trade of T.Y., I just wanted to reply with my thoughts.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Trueman said:

I'd take a 2nd and a 4th right now. 

That said, I'd be pretty surprised if Ballard moves Hilton, regardless of our record , but I agree with the rationale. 

I'd look at moving Sheard too. He might be able to pick up a mid-round pick.

 

 

1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

The option to trade for T.Y. for a couple of picks would be an easy decision for me. Its a NO.  I'd hate to trade a known, valuable commodity in T.Y. for a relatively unknown variable through the draft, all while creating a hole at the WR position. We haven't been able to find a WR #2, much less replace a WR #1.

 

As for the scenario of a trade for a player and a pick, I think our position is such that we have a lot of draft picks already and have the most cap space in all of the NFL. I would rather we keep T.Y. and use our picks and cap space to continue the build, than to get rid of one of best players.

 

I know that you are not advocating for the trade of T.Y., I just wanted to reply with my thoughts.

 

I'm literally thinking out loud, so I don't want to get too far into this hypothetical. I'm just saying that the turnover could start at the deadline, if a great offer comes along. 

 

For whatever little it's worth, I wouldn't want to trade Hilton either, but I'd listen to a reasonable offer if I were Ballard. 

[Dark Superman]

[DougDew]

TY is not the ideal WR#1 for this O, IMO.  But the cost to replace TY is way more than what we would get for him. 

 

I'd only trade him for a #1 this draft, or a #2 this draft and a #2 next draft, but I don't think we'd get either.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Indy_Mike said:

Regardless of the plan, I believe our coaches and players expected to be doing much better. If anything I think they were sandbagging a little hoping to be the surprise of the league, now that they are laying a huge egg, we get a lot of people downplaying the teams expectations for the season.

 

This team has enough talent to be a playoff team, we've lost at least 3 games we should have won if our players would have performed at the level expected of them! Injuries have been a major problem, which either makes us a very unlucky team or a very poorly conditioned team. Maybe our players need more strength training? If fans accept this level of mediocrity for 3 years we will beome the Bengals and have a winning season once every 10 years!

 

I agree with this. Not the Bengals part, but the beginning. Between penalties, injuries, and early turnovers, we've really shot ourselves in the foot this season. Realistically, we should be no worse than 4-2 right now.

 

But here we are. I think the reason we don't play with discipline is because we don't have disciplined players (not all, but some who are on the field 50+ snaps a week). The reason we drop passes is because we don't have great pass catchers. The idealism is dying. We aren't going to play perfectly every week, and we don't have enough talent to make up for the mistakes. 

 

Now, things could get better moving forward. But it's pretty obvious that we need more talent up and down the roster. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

TY is not the ideal WR#1 for this O, IMO.  But the cost to replace TY is way more than what we would get for him. 

 

I'd only trade him for a #1 this draft, or a #2 this draft and a #2 next draft, but I don't think we'd get either.

 

That's reasonable. I think your asking price is higher than it should be, but I get where you're coming from.

 

So my question is this: In two years when Hilton is a free agent, what do you think the Colts should do with him? You're obviously not going to run out and offer him an extension this offseason because you don't think he's ideal at #1 money, and that probably means you'd let him walk in free agency also. So do we just milk him for two years and hope his production justifies passing on a combo of 2nd/3rd round picks?

 

To be honest, as I'm typing this out, I'm reminding myself that the real problem isn't Hilton, it's what's on the other side of Hilton. Same problem we've had since October of 2013, no matter what the staff has tried. I'm hoping that the new offense winds up being more WR friendly, so we can finally fill that void. I guess it starts with receivers who run good routes and are reliable pass catchers. It's too bad Deon Cain got hurt.

[NewEra]

With another draft next year and some key FA's we are locked to make a strong run next year. Take that to the bank

[horseshoecrabs]

A little premature to speculate at this juncture about TY Hilton.

 

[horseshoecrabs]

Maybe this should be addressed in the FA -Scouting post Superman 

[richard pallo]

Just now, Flash7 said:

The option to trade for T.Y. for a couple of picks would be an easy decision for me. Its a NO.  I'd hate to trade a known, valuable commodity in T.Y. for a relatively unknown variable through the draft, all while creating a hole at the WR position. We haven't been able to find a WR #2, much less replace a WR #1.

 

As for the scenario of a trade for a player and a pick, I think our position is such that we have a lot of draft picks already and have the most cap space in all of the NFL. I would rather we keep T.Y. and use our picks and cap space to continue the build, than to get rid of one of best players.

 

I know that you are not advocating for the trade of T.Y., I just wanted to reply with my thoughts.

 I wonder how Luck would take that news after he busted his butt to get back and you take away his best receiver and are giving him the message we are not trying to help you win this year.  It's all about next year.  Instead of giving him another playmaker you away his only one.  Would love to see a video of that conversation. 

[Four2itus]

To use injuries can be an excuse, but to not recognize just how vast the total numbers are....and the positions.....the starters.....is just as ridiculous. When your team loses historical numbers to IR, and starters missing games at THE MOST important offensive positions other than QB such as OT, TE, WR, RB....then something has to give. This has been happening while the team was suppose to be getting used to each other, the coordinators, the players, the position coaches....

 

Just curious....when was the last time the Colts had the same offensive line starters for 4 games in a row...just 25% of a season? I wish I knew where to look that up. 

 

 

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's reasonable. I think your asking price is higher than it should be, but I get where you're coming from.

 

So my question is this: In two years when Hilton is a free agent, what do you think the Colts should do with him? You're obviously not going to run out and offer him an extension this offseason because you don't think he's ideal at #1 money, and that probably means you'd let him walk in free agency also. So do we just milk him for two years and hope his production justifies passing on a combo of 2nd/3rd round picks?

 

To be honest, as I'm typing this out, I'm reminding myself that the real problem isn't Hilton, it's what's on the other side of Hilton. Same problem we've had since October of 2013, no matter what the staff has tried. I'm hoping that the new offense winds up being more WR friendly, so we can finally fill that void. I guess it starts with receivers who run good routes and are reliable pass catchers. It's too bad Deon Cain got hurt.

Oh, I think my price is more than what we'd get too.

 

TY and Doyle is really all there is on the O, and neither is really that great.  I think TY benefited from a vertical offense and that's where his value is, but we still need to field a team. 

 

If nobody can get open or catch a pass when they do, we may as well have Blaine Gabbert at QB.  TY is worth more to us than what we would get for him for that reason alone.

 

I say ride TY the best we can for two more years and then worry about where we sit at the time. 

 

 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

reed was a more complete player. he would line in up different places and was a good hitter and tackler, along with being one of the best ever at playing the deep passes

 

hooker is a good player and can be exciting to watch, but his play style makes it hard for him to impact every game.  hes usually solid in coverage, but teams dont even need to test him to beat us 

 He doesn't even have a full season under his belt.   Very few players are all pro in less than 16 games.  My goodness

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

TY and Doyle is really all there is on the O, and neither is really that great.  I think TY benefited from a vertical offense and that's where his value is, but we still need to field a team. 

 

If nobody can get open or catch a pass when they do, we might as well have Blaine Gabbert at QB.  He's worth more to us than what we would get for him for that reason alone.

 

I say ride TY the best we can for two more years and then worry about where we sit at the time. 

 

 

Ebron has 6 tds in 6 games.  If you don't think he is a, weapon,  I'm not sure what you're watching

[MPStack]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

TY and Doyle is really all there is on the O, and neither is really that great.  I think TY benefited from a vertical offense and that's where his value is, but we still need to field a team. 

 

If nobody can get open or catch a pass when they do, we might as well have Blaine Gabbert at QB.  He's worth more to us than what we would get for him for that reason alone.

 

I say ride TY the best we can for two more years and then worry about where we sit at the time. 

 

 

I agree about Doyle. He is way overhyped and not a player teams plan for. His longest catch is 26 yards. However, I think Ebron could be a weapon and is making progress.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Ebron has 6 tds in 6 games.  If you don't think he is a, weapon,  I'm not sure what you're watching

Ebron's fine, but I don't think he's irreplaceable.  And he's a bit of a big WR playing the TE position and not much of a blocker. 

 

For the record, I never cared for Dallas Clark that much or that type of a "TE", so I'm starting off biased against Ebron in favor of Doyle.

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ebron's fine, but I don't think he's irreplaceable.  And he's a bit of a big WR playing the TE position and not much of a blocker. 

 

For the record, I never cared for Dallas Clark that much or that type of a "TE", so I'm starting off biased against Ebron in favor of Doyle.

If they make plays,   does it matter what position they are labeled as? Meaningless

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If they make plays,   does it matter what position they are labeled as? Meaningless

As I said, Ebron's fine, but I just think an O is more of a threat with a dynamic slot guy rather than the TE-light guy. 

 

 

 

 

[jameszeigler834]

4 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Yeah, just like when YOU get a new job you have about 90 days to acclimate yourself and perform to standard.

 

GM's are given 3 years because that is the amount of time it SHOULD take to rebuild a team from the ground up.

 

Try using the common sense approach instead of emotional and you'll find you probably won't actually press enter to a post like this once you've typed it and reread it....

This team is complete trash.

[MPStack]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

This team is complete trash.

Nah, the Colts aren't paper bag material. 

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As I said, Ebron's fine, but I just think an O is more of a threat with a dynamic slot guy rather than the TE-light guy. 

 

 

 

 

Production is profusion

Production.    The guy is producing.  He doesn't have to be the best tight end in the league to be considered a weapon 

[jameszeigler834]

Just now, MPStack said:

Nah, the Colts aren't paper bag material. 

 

Just now, MPStack said:

Nah, the Colts aren't paper bag material. 

They looked it today the jets are terrible and we made them look like a contender today made Darnold look like a 1st year hall of famer.

[MPStack]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

 

They looked it today the jets are terrible and we made them look like a contender today made Darnold look like a 1st year hall of famer.

The Jets are not a bad team. 3-3 and have been competitive in every game but the Jags game. Darnold has played fairly well for a rookie and improving weekly. 

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Production is profusion

Production.    The guy is producing.  He doesn't have to be the best tight end in the league to be considered a weapon 

Ok then.  We don't have any weapons besides TY and Ebron. 

 

I can't call Ebron and Doyle as being weapons at the same time, since one TE needs to be able to hang around the LOS for an outlet if not blocking.  

 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Introspect said:

with the first pick of the 2019 NFL Draft the Indianapolis Colts select…..

 

And with the 3rd pick of the 2019 draft, the Indianapolis Colts select Nick Bosa... along with a boat load of picks for trading down 2 positions to the QB desperate Giants. 

 

1st round- 3rd 

2nd round- 33, 35 (Giants), 39 (jets)

3rd round - 65, 67 (Giants) 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok then.  We don't have any weapons besides TY and Ebron. 

 

I can't call Ebron and Doyle as being weapons at the same time, since one TE needs to be able to hang around the LOS for an outlet if not blocking.  

 

 

That's fair, but Ebron is a better weapon than Doyle anyway. They can both contribute as they have different strengths, but neither is irreplaceable. Although I'd say the pass catching mismatch is the one that's harder to replace. 

[compuls1v3]

3 hours ago, threeflight said:

And btw....Chubb with 3 sacks so far today.....THOSE are gamechangers.

 

Nelson and Hooker?  Nice players, but due to their positions.....not going to win you games by themselves.

FAIL:  CB.

One interception and time in the pocket for Luck to throw. I would argue it's game changing. 

[compuls1v3]

3 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Building a team is tough, mainly because you have to hit at a high rate through the draft, and the FAs that you bring in have to come in and deliver right away.

 

One thing that is a concern for me is that Ballard learned from his time with the Bears, where his QBs were: Jim Miller, Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton, and Jay Cutler. Ballard learned that the key to winning wasn't the QB position, it was the defense.

 

Then during his time at KC, his QB was Alex Smith. He has never worked with a QB like Luck. All of his previous QBs required him to build a complete team. This is both good and bad. I think he is of the mindset that he needs to build a complete team for Luck, which is correct. BUT, with a QB like Luck, you have to focus on not wasting his talent.

 

Luck cannot wait forever for Ballard to build a complete team. Luck is ready to win now. Spend the money, give Luck some play makers, and let him lead. The team can be built while Luck leads the Colts to wins. Instead, we have Rogers, Pascal, Grant, M. Johnson as receivers. Give me a break!

I feel your frustration.  When Manning went to the Broncos, the Broncos spent a bunch of money in FA on the D. I agree we need help at WR but am not sure what next draft or FA offers.  I will say I hope Cain recovers and becomes something and I'm also disappointed in Rogers. He is just not consistent, and I was rooting for him. 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's fair, but Ebron is a better weapon than Doyle anyway. They can both contribute as they have different strengths, but neither is irreplaceable. Although I'd say the pass catching mismatch is the one that's harder to replace. 

Alternative ways to spend money.  So would guys like Ebron take PT away from guys like Tyler Lockett?

[CanuckColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

If we got a combination of a couple picks or a pick and a young corner, or something like that, it could help the Colts moving forward. The offense is actually moving the ball and scoring points without Hilton right now. Maybe the Eagles would give up Sidney Jones and a 3rd... 

I am not seeing what you're seeing in the offence:

OT in Houston it looked like we needed him.

Lots of drops against the pats.

Turn overs, many from replacement receivers.

 

I think TY is almost critical.