Heard On The Radio Tonight.....

[oldunclemark]

It was unspoken that the money from last year would be considered for this year as he didn't play for it. Thats why I have believed all along money isn't part of the equation, because he might feel he didn't "earn" it until he worked for it.

I know it's a reach but it's a new angle for discussion anyway.

This has been my point...

Manning might play for next to nothing in 2012 because that's an average of 13 mil for 2011 and 2012.

That's how I'd look at it.

Not knowing him...I woukld say he feels like he didnt earn his money and he wants to prove himself in Indy.

This is the main reason I think he stays. he feels he owes Irsay

[JoKeR]

Yeah, he said that on the NFL Channel. But it has to be pure speculation because no one from the Colts organization would dare say that to a reporter.

It does make sense though, if you have the #1 pick in the draft you want him to get reps. And we all know Peyton takes all the snaps in practice.

Breer made it sound like a deal breaker, but I think Peyton is more mature than that.

I agree.

[deedub75]

You said: "I will only hate on Luck if he replaces Manning and turns out to be a dud. If he turns out to be Manning 2.0, I will gladly wear his jersey. I still want Irsay to be either all in with Manning or all in with Luck". The fact that you will hate someone because they are 'not very good at football' just sounds silly. And the 'all in' part is also troubling me. If we are uncertain about both QB's (recovery from injury / untested rookie), going all in with one is a risk I'd prefer to mitigate. Perhaps I was wrong to say 'silly', I just disagree with you. Apologies.

There is a difference between hating someone and hating on someone. I would not hate Luck if he turns out to be a dud. When I say I would hate on Luck, I mean that I would hate that Manning was released because of him and I would hate that the #1 pick was wasted on him. The only way I would want Irsay to be all in with Manning is only if his arm strength and accuracy would warrant Irsay to keep him. If the arm strength and accuracy with Manning is not there then release him and go all in with Luck. I see no good coming out of keeping both. It would be a PR nightmare and salary cap suicide. That's just my 2 cents.

[Andy]

Haven't posted here yet...

So they're telling me that the Colts would bring back their franchise QB for tons and tons of money only to have his job be lost to a rookie. If they bring back Manning, it is because they want him to start. There is no such thing as the highest paid player in the league being a backup.

[UndecidedFrog]

salary cap suicide.

FYI, Luck's cap hit in 2012 is projected to be about $4,2MM, less than Mathis' cap hit of $5.75MM, and certainly much less than PM's projected cap hit (current contract) of $17MM, or Freeney's current projected cap hit of $19MM.

So, as a contributor to what you termed "salary cap suicide", Luck is not a major contributor to that at all.

[FireJimCaldwell]

FYI, Luck's cap hit in 2012 is projected to be about $4,2MM, less than Mathis' cap hit of $5.75MM, and certainly much less than PM's projected cap hit (current contract) of $17MM, or Freeney's current projected cap hit of $19MM.

So, as a contributor to what you termed "salary cap suicide", Luck is not a major contributor to that at all.

When you compare 4.2million to what other back up quarterbacks are making, it's likely 200% or more than the next QB2. 4-5 times higher than most QB2.

[UndecidedFrog]

When you compare 4.2million to what other back up quarterbacks are making, it's likely 200% or more than the next QB2. 4-5 times higher than most QB2.

Yes, the highest QB2 cap hit I found was Byron Leftwich (PIT) at $2MM for last season.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/byron-leftwich/

Luck should not be considered as a back-up QB. I see him as a starting QB.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yes, the highest QB2 cap hit I found was Byron Leftwich (PIT) at $2MM for last season.

http://www.spotrac.c...byron-leftwich/

Luck should not be considered as a back-up QB. I see him as a starting QB.

His cap hit is a great value as a starter, and horrible for a back up. Which is just another reason having them both on the roster makes little sense.

[oldunclemark]

If we learned anything this past season is that our backup QB SHOULD take reps in practice with the first team. It was foolish to give Peyton every single first team snap, no other team does that.

This is a key point..

In some respects 2-14 was a self inflicted wound...

We never made Curtis Painter ready or found out that he wasnt/

Now..true Painter took all the snaps in 2011 and it didnt help

but during the season, the backup must get 25% of the game week snaps to be ready.

cant do it the 100% way...never again...Peyton has to agree to that

[oldunclemark]

Yes, the highest QB2 cap hit I found was Byron Leftwich (PIT) at $2MM for last season.

http://www.spotrac.c...byron-leftwich/

Luck should not be considered as a back-up QB. I see him as a starting QB.

Luck should be a backup his first year.... he has earned nothing and his salary will not be high.

He's new to the game..his team and his teammates....The arguement that a rookie who doesnt have a complete grasp of the offense or knowledge of his teammates should start because of where he was drafted is a blueprint for heavy losing.

[UndecidedFrog]

His cap hit is a great value as a starter, and horrible for a back up. Which is just another reason having them both on the roster makes little sense.

I don't disagree. I don't see the sense in having both PM and Luck on the same roster. I am all for choosing one or the other.

[UndecidedFrog]

Luck should be a backup his first year.... he has earned nothing and his salary will not be high.

He's new to the game..his team and his teammates....The arguement that a rookie who doesnt have a complete grasp of the offense or knowledge of his teammates should start because of where he was drafted is a blueprint for heavy losing.

I guess you are just going to disregard what FJC and I were discussing? Do you acknowledge that Luck's cap hit in 2012 of $4.2MM is double of what the highest QB2 cap hit was in 2011? Do you see that Luck's cap hit will be that much higher compared to any QB2 in the league?

On top of that, how do you account for Cam Newton's, and Andy Dalton's success last season as starting rookie QBs?

[JoKeR]

His cap hit is a great value as a starter, and horrible for a back up. Which is just another reason having them both on the roster makes little sense.

Depends on your point of view and whats most important to you. If Irsay thinks Peyton is the better option short term and Luck is for the future then it does make sense.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Depends on your point of view and whats most important to you. If Irsay thinks Peyton is the better option short term and Luck is for the future then it does make sense.

I guess that would depend on Manning agreeing to a short term contract.

I would be extremely shocked to see that happen.

[JoKeR]

I guess that would depend on Manning agreeing to a short term contract.

I would be extremely shocked to see that happen.

I agree that would be a big issue but nothing would shock me at this point. We don't really know what Manning wants yet.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I agree that would be a big issue but nothing would shock me at this point. We don't really know what Manning wants yet.

That's a good point, but I doubt that it is a short term deal. If he's comfortable with not playing as long as he intended, then maybe, but from what seems to make him tick.. I don't see it.

[BmoreColt]

You would think based on the numbers and facts that if Peyton remains a Colt, they should logically trade the pick. This idea however, has not been mentioned in the media.. What a brilliant move that would be by Irsay and completely unexpected. I still maintain its all in one or the other, and I'd prefer Manning.

[FireJimCaldwell]

You would think based on the numbers and facts that if Peyton remains a Colt, they should logically trade the pick. This idea however, has not been mentioned in the media.. What a brilliant move that would be by Irsay and completely unexpected. I still maintain its all in one or the other, and I'd prefer Manning.

Two ways to look at that being a possibility.

A ) He picks up the option bonus. To me that will send a red flag up in the Luck camp, which would make that idea come to light sooner rather than later, if they became vocal about not wanting to sit for 4 years.

B ) A cut/release/new deal. Depending on the terms, that might also send up a red flag in the Luck camp.

It should be something to be considered, but Irsay's made up his mind and will be taking Luck with the first pick.

It would be a brilliant move, I just don't think it could be kept quiet.

[subvet]

Then another thing is, let's say Peyton is cleared to play on NFL level and take full NFL hits. Why would we have Andrew Luck sit? why not just trade him? I think its a waste to have him just sit if he is what they say he is. Steve Young backed up Montana and that's peachy and all, but is Luck willing to do that? I mean really?

First, he was cleared to play by doctors a month ago, he hasn't been by the Colts doctors. Why sit Andrew? Because it is to everyone's benefit, for the Colts the publicity and leadership he provides, for Luck it eliminates negativity by forcing Manning out, and for Manning he gets to go out his way. Luck said he is willing which was probably just the PC thing to say but I also believe he meant it because of the relationship the Mannings and Lucks have had for over 30 years.

[BmoreColt]

We will be able to speculate more in a few days or know that Manning is no longer in the equation. I just think about how Jerry Jones did T.O when he drew on the table cloth Dallas on one side T.O on the other. Apparently he was not capable of comprehending without a visual.. Lol

[PolkHigh33]

the better solution is show respect for the one that made this team an elite squad for decade+

Let him retire here even if it means passing up on the best QB prospect since the man himself

the best solution is bite the bullet and not draft him. Trade the pick and build the defense.

Exactly what I think. I have thought of a couple of the points that were made against a Colts future with Manning - and from my point of view, most of them are just not good enough to release Manning.

Cap space: I have read very often (especially from the IndyStar guys) that Manning should not be paid the bonus so that the free money can be used to contract other free agents like Wayne, Mathis, Garcon and all the others. This is just laughable because who did actually play last year and showed that he was not the reason that we had so many 10, 12 or 14 W seasons? And it is NOT a fact yet that Manning is unwilling to restructure his contract in favour of the Colts.

Health: It's too dangerous to go on with Manning because Manning might never get back his old strength. That's true, of course (although latest hints appear to contradict). But also Luck is only one unlucky play away from a career-ending injury (ask G. Williams how that works).

Future: Even if Manning comes back at full strength he will not play for 10, 12 or 15 years like Luck is supposed to do. That's right. But if he comes back it will most likely be not for one year only. So do you want to have two, three or four years with one of the best to ever play that game or ten, twelve or fifteen years with a hopeful QB who might also play at a Joe Flacco level only (if things do not develop as smoothly as some insinuate). And if he plays for 2-4 years, the Colts have another 2-4 years to find another very good successor who (as a bonus) will additionally benefit from a better defense (or why was Pagano hired?).

I could add one or two others but my two weeks old son is crying...

[21isSuperman]

I think you, which suprises me, and others seem to have confused the differance beween wanting an incoming player to compete to start vs. making an already established player compete to keep his job? I, nor anyone I agree with said that. We merely don't understand why you wouldn't want the incoming player to compete? It is the only way to learn and grow as a player...it really is quite simple?

I certainly would want him to compete. If a rookie came in and said he wasn't going to compete for a starting job because the position already belongs to a legend like Peyton, I wouldn't be too happy. Athletes love to compete and want to be the very best and that's what I would expect. But I can't see a healthy Peyton Manning losing his job out to anyone in the NFL.

[number28]

or ten, twelve or fifteen years with a hopeful QB who might also play at a Joe Flacco level only (if things do not develop as smoothly as some insinuate).

that's what I am the most afraid of. Taking a risk on a hype that has more chances of failing than becoming a star. This goes for any player. Stars just don't fall out of the sky.