I Find It Hard To Believe

[manningstheman]

I find it hard to believe that the Colts organization had no idea how bad Peytons injury was. I understand there was a lock out. But, i am not an knuckhead either. How could the Colts organization not know that Peyton had such an career changing surgery?

Which leads me to the next question. Why would Jim still give Peyton such a huge contract? Even after Peyton was on record saying he didnt need that kind of money?

It seems to me that they both knew what was going on. Maybe they both looked at it as a way to redo the franchise. Get a real back up/ future star to take his place. Then redo the coaching staff for a chance at another run before he retires?

I will say there is no way this organization was going to win another SB with the way things were going.

Just my opinion.

[Phil J]

we are not winning one next year, doesn't matter who is under center. too many holes. couple years.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

At the time of the contract, Peyton had already had a surgery and they were waiting for the nerves to regenerate. I think they thought it would happen. At one point Peyton suited up and went out to try to play and it was then that it was decided on the fusion after the stem cell procedure didn't help. It's very possible that at the time of the contract being signed they thought he'd play this year. They did take him off of the PUP list toward the end of training camp.

[manningstheman]

At the time of the contract, Peyton had already had a surgery and they were waiting for the nerves to regenerate. I think they thought it would happen. At one point Peyton suited up and went out to try to play and it was then that it was decided on the fusion after the stem cell procedure didn't help. It's very possible that at the time of the contract being signed they thought he'd play this year. They did take him off of the PUP list toward the end of training camp.

Did Peyton suit up?

[coltsfanej]

Idk... I like to think there is a plan to bring back Peyton, but I dont think they gave this year away for next year. I doubt that they went this in depth on working the system. Id be nice for all this to be planned but not likely.

[coltsblue1844]

we are not winning one next year, doesn't matter who is under center. too many holes. couple years.

In 2009 we couldve went 16-0...we did finish 14-2 and went to the super bowl...since then, we have added a better LT and RT to our line, in Castonzo and Ijilana...we added Nevis to our D-line and Angerer has emerged as a very good LB...we have also added a much improved coaching staff...and will be selecting higher in the draft than we have in 13yrs...

So because we had a bad year this past year, with lots of injuries and a bunch of inferrior QBs starting for us...why cant we be very good next year?

Next year's team will have far more talent and a far better coaching staff than this past season's team had...and the team that just finished so terribly, was only a few plays away from beating both the Steelers AND the Patriots...and several of the other teams we lost to in close games or games in which we had an early lead.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Did Peyton suit up?

Yes, when they took him off of pup he suited up for practice and it apparently didn't go well. He never suited up for a game.

[subvet]

I find it hard to believe that the Colts organization had no idea how bad Peytons injury was. I understand there was a lock out. But, i am not an knuckhead either. How could the Colts organization not know that Peyton had such an career changing surgery?

Which leads me to the next question. Why would Jim still give Peyton such a huge contract? Even after Peyton was on record saying he didnt need that kind of money?

It seems to me that they both knew what was going on. Maybe they both looked at it as a way to redo the franchise. Get a real back up/ future star to take his place. Then redo the coaching staff for a chance at another run before he retires?

I will say there is no way this organization was going to win another SB with the way things were going.

Just my opinion.

1. Believe it, they didn't know otherwise why would they freeze money they would need later..

2. Huge money because locking in the star QB is good business decision, at the time he was money in the bank.

3. Believing they planned this to rebuild the franchise is a real stretch, too much money in the wrong places.

I don't see a conspiracy here, just the way the dice rolled.

[Flux]

It's all speculation, we will find out soon enough. However, I do wish that i were close friends with Jim Irsay only so I could ask him...What are you not telling them?

[braveheartcolt]

In 2009 we couldve went 16-0...we did finish 14-2 and went to the super bowl...since then, we have added a better LT and RT to our line, in Castonzo and Ijilana...we added Nevis to our D-line and Angerer has emerged as a very good LB...we have also added a much improved coaching staff...and will be selecting higher in the draft than we have in 13yrs...

So because we had a bad year this past year, with lots of injuries and a bunch of inferrior QBs starting for us...why cant we be very good next year?

Next year's team will have far more talent and a far better coaching staff than this past season's team had...and the team that just finished so terribly, was only a few plays away from beating both the Steelers AND the Patriots...and several of the other teams we lost to in close games or games in which we had an early lead.

Much better coaching staff? I think we may need to see some proof first. You also mention some nice acquisitions, but what about the players we may lose through free agency? We MUST draft well to get anywhere near to an 8-8 season.

[coltsblue1844]

Much better coaching staff? I think we may need to see some proof first. You also mention some nice acquisitions, but what about the players we may lose through free agency? We MUST draft well to get anywhere near to an 8-8 season.

yes, a much better coaching staff. A life size cardboard cutout of Vince Lombardi could coach circles around Caldwell

[braveheartcolt]

yes, a much better coaching staff. A life size cardboard cutout of Vince Lombardi could coach circles around Caldwell

What is Pagano's Head Coaching record like? Your cute little throwaway line re Vince is totally irrelevant, although I agree Caldwell was as much use as an inflatable dartboard.

[coltsblue1844]

What is Pagano's Head Coaching record like? Your cute little throwaway line re Vince is totally irrelevant, although I agree Caldwell was as much use as an inflatable dartboard.

my point is that caldwell was so bad that anyone who can coach would be every bit as good and most likely much better

[Ohio Colt]

You know like they just said on the NFL combine--basically Peyton hasn't thrown for the organization yet. That is not a good sign

[ruksak]

You know like they just said on the NFL combine--basically Peyton hasn't thrown for the organization yet. That is not a good sign

The reason I like Mayock is he doesn't behave like a Sheftner or LaCanfora. He doesn't lie for page hits. He went on and on today and made a darn good point. "This is a last minute league. Why should Peyton NOT wait until the last week"?

[UndecidedFrog]

The reason I like Mayock is he doesn't behave like a Sheftner or LaCanfora. He doesn't lie for page hits. He went on and on today and made a darn good point. "This is a last minute league. Why should Peyton NOT wait until the last week"?

Why would PM need to throw if they cannot come to agreement on the new contract?

[ruksak]

Why would PM need to throw if they cannot come to agreement on the new contract?

Who says they aren't working on the contract?

[UndecidedFrog]

Who says they aren't working on the contract?

Who has any evidence that they are working on a contract?

[ruksak]

Who has any evidence that they are working on a contract?

Alas, we are at an impasse. One week, give or take, we'll know.

All I can say definitively is that there is likely much occurring that we're not having reported to us. Good, bad, both, there is likely much going on that we have no idea of.

[UndecidedFrog]

Alas, we are at an impasse. One week, give or take, we'll know.

All I can say definitively is that there is likely much occurring that we're not having reported to us. Good, bad, both, there is likely much going on that we have no idea of.

12 days until March 8. Tick Tock, tick tock.

[Colten18]

we are not winning one next year, doesn't matter who is under center. too many holes. couple years.

I agree. Weve made so many changes in personnel across the board I dont think we are realistically looking at a SB run this upcoming season.

[Warhorse]

This certainly is a new subject. In all reality, I wasn't posting here at the grand manifestation of the "The franchise had to know how serious PM's injury was" era. On my board, the threads were as endless as there are grains of sand on the beach.

My only response is that I find it hard to believe that fans have become so attuned to the ESPN born Drama outside the Game, mentality. A good game is great drama, so is the draft. No offense to the original post of this thread or the posters who responded, but front offices are filled with some of the brightest minds in the game. There is no mystery to me, or deception. Anything that fans need to know, they know, Anything they didn't need to know, is fine with me. When you go out to eat, you don't know what really goes on with your food....and that is a good thing. If you have ever had impacted wisdom teeth removed, you really don't want to know what they had to do to get them out. Trust me, you don't want to know. Same here. Stuff goes on that doesn't need to be known. We are outside the loop of information for a reason, because most fans.....great time to quote a movie....."Can't handle the truth". Just my 35 cents. (2 cents is so last century)

[Ohio Colt]

Ah but warhorsie.... Being on the outside as a fan is a thing of the past you see. We fans are getting closer and closer to the inside all of the time in a variety of ways. Some organizations even have owners who offer up glances and looks at the inside willfully via a twitter account. This version of the consumer getting closer will soon be so commonplace that it's an expected neccessary evil for pro franchises to achieve maximum profitability markets. Now that this Pandora's box has been opened we will only continue to get closer.

I wish I knew more about what went into my food at restaurants

[GoColts8818]

I think they honestly didn't know because the actions they took supported them not knowing. Keep in mind Peyton was practicing up till the final cut down day to the point they took him off the PUP list which only made sense if they expected him to play sometime in the first six weeks of he season and then he had pain and even JMV (the guy who broke the story) said that's when it hit the fan for the Colts and they realized this was bad and he was going to need more work done.

I think they felt like he might miss time (which is why they went and got Collins when they did) but I think they figured at most he would miss four games based on what was reported.

[Warhorse]

Ah but warhorsie.... Being on the outside as a fan is a thing of the past you see. We fans are getting closer and closer to the inside all of the time in a variety of ways. Some organizations even have owners who offer up glances and looks at the inside willfully via a twitter account. This version of the consumer getting closer will soon be so commonplace that it's an expected neccessary evil for pro franchises to achieve maximum profitability markets. Now that this Pandora's box has been opened we will only continue to get closer.

I wish I knew more about what went into my food at restaurants

I have a son who is a cook. He has quit places because of some of the stuff they do....

Warhorsie is a first! I have been Warwhore and Whorhorse, but this is new. Usually just War.

Anyway, we are getting closer, I get that. What I don't get is the fixation and drama that accompanies the lack of information. I like the road that leads to peace in myself. I'll find out when it is time to find out....and if I dont know what truly transpired......meh, I'm ok with that too. Look forward to the draft when the talk will go from what we don't know, to a whole lot of "I told you so", from either one side or another.

[GGW4Mike]

You know like they just said on the NFL combine--basically Peyton hasn't thrown for the organization yet. That is not a good sign

Under the new CBA rules, the Colts cant watch Manning throw

[oldunclemark]

we are not winning one next year, doesn't matter who is under center. too many holes. couple years.

This is the part that I would disagree with....

...Ths Colts are not 2 years away from any possibility of making the playoffs..

If Manning is healthly, I think its a good bet the Colts can be 10-6 next year because they are better at other positions (TE, FS, OL) than they were at the end of 2010..

..I dont want to throw that away...

[ruksak]

Under the new CBA rules, the Colts cant watch Manning throw

He said the (colts) "organization". The Colts doctors represent the organization. Just sayin.

[subvet]

This certainly is a new subject. In all reality, I wasn't posting here at the grand manifestation of the "The franchise had to know how serious PM's injury was" era. On my board, the threads were as endless as there are grains of sand on the beach.

My only response is that I find it hard to believe that fans have become so attuned to the ESPN born Drama outside the Game, mentality. A good game is great drama, so is the draft. No offense to the original post of this thread or the posters who responded, but front offices are filled with some of the brightest minds in the game. There is no mystery to me, or deception. Anything that fans need to know, they know, Anything they didn't need to know, is fine with me. When you go out to eat, you don't know what really goes on with your food....and that is a good thing. If you have ever had impacted wisdom teeth removed, you really don't want to know what they had to do to get them out. Trust me, you don't want to know. Same here. Stuff goes on that doesn't need to be known. We are outside the loop of information for a reason, because most fans.....great time to quote a movie....."Can't handle the truth". Just my 35 cents. (2 cents is so last century)

Excellent quote choice for the reference to your post and the fact that the Colts will have "A Few Good Men" with both PM and AL in the stable. And to paraphrase the next line "we want you both on the sideline, we NEED you both on the sideline."

[oldunclemark]

Excellent quote choice for the reference to your post and the fact that the Colts will have "A Few Good Men" with both PM and AL in the stable. And to paraphrase the next line "we want you both on the sideline, we NEED you both on the sideline."

1000% right .... SV...

We are handed a golden opportunity to seamlessly transition from the greatest QB of the last 20 years to the geatest prospect in 20 years...and to have them both for a couple of years...

It would make Indy the top franchise in pro football...

...we cant blow this opportunity and we wont because Irsay thinks that way

[Malakai432]

yes, a much better coaching staff. A life size cardboard cutout of Vince Lombardi could coach circles around Caldwell

LOL!!!!!!!

[Blue Horseshoe]

yes, a much better coaching staff. A life size cardboard cutout of Vince Lombardi could coach circles around Caldwell

Maybe so but it couldn't beat him in a staring contest.

[Phil J]

We are handed a golden opportunity to seamlessly transition from the greatest QB of the last 20 years to the geatest prospect in 20 years...and to have them both for a couple of years...

It would make Indy the top franchise in pro football...

the top franchise? come on, dude.......

if you think our D is even close to top 10 let alone top 20, i want some of what you are smoking.

two sides to the ball. 2 years ago Houston went 6-10 with one of the top O's in the league. other side let them down. we are going through that right now with our D. I don't care if its Manning or Luck, that D is gonna stink till we change our scheme and personnel. and its not gonna happen during a single training camp.

i see much heartbreak looming for you mark. first, you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that it won't be Pey-luck as you keep DESPERATELY trying to tell everyone on this board. Its gonna be Luck and that's it. Second, you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that our D is too small and we give up WAY too many points to have us seriously contend, even if by some miracle we make the playoffs. It will be one-and-done till we fix that mess on the defense.

Just two more weeks, mark. I've been wearing my Manning jersey quite a bit lately, a bit of a symbolic gesture. We are gonna miss him, but sounds like you are gonna miss him most of all. Just don't do anything foolish when he gets released.

[BuildtheMonster1285]

In 2009 we couldve went 16-0...we did finish 14-2 and went to the super bowl...since then, we have added a better LT and RT to our line, in Castonzo and Ijilana...we added Nevis to our D-line and Angerer has emerged as a very good LB...we have also added a much improved coaching staff...and will be selecting higher in the draft than we have in 13yrs...

So because we had a bad year this past year, with lots of injuries and a bunch of inferrior QBs starting for us...why cant we be very good next year?

Next year's team will have far more talent and a far better coaching staff than this past season's team had...and the team that just finished so terribly, was only a few plays away from beating both the Steelers AND the Patriots...and several of the other teams we lost to in close games or games in which we had an early lead.

Its true

[braveheartcolt]

And we lost to the Saints by how many? "Only a few plays away from beating....." etc. All irrelevant. We can and may be better this coming season, but there is not one crumb of comfort we can take from last season, apart from all those duds we got rid off from the front office and coaching staff......oh, and getting the #1 draft pick.....

[JoKeR]

Why would PM need to throw if they cannot come to agreement on the new contract?

Well he has to throw before they negotiate. They're not going negotiate the fine details before he throws. The 1st issue is his performance (health) then negotiating a incentive laced contract

[UndecidedFrog]

Well he has to throw before they negotiate. They're not going negotiate the fine details before he throws. The 1st issue is his performance (health) then negotiating a incentive laced contract

I see it as a more iterative process.

If they are far apart on the general terms, there is no need to see him throw. The parties can agree to disagree, and move on.

[Balzer40]

Well he has to throw before they negotiate. They're not going negotiate the fine details before he throws. The 1st issue is his performance (health) then negotiating a incentive laced contract

Then that is going to be a major problem for them considering it has been widely reported the Colts can't watch him throw. Therefore, according to what you're saying they won't negotiate.

[JoKeR]

Then that is going to be a major problem for them considering it has been widely reported the Colts can't watch him throw. Therefore, according to what you're saying they won't negotiate.

Medical staff can watch, and they can be coached what to look for, if they don't know what to look for already.

If Manning is a FA after 3/8 then what's stopping them from watching him workout??? What if Manning and Irsay have a plan to let the current contract to expire, then workout, then negotiate a new contract? Is this what JI and PM have been in contact about?

[Balzer40]

Medical staff can watch, and they can be coached what to look for, if they don't know what to look for already.

If Manning is a FA after 3/8 then what's stopping them from watching him workout??? What if Manning and Irsay have a plan to let the current contract to expire, then workout, then negotiate a new contract? Is this what JI and PM have been in contact about?

Could happen, I won't completely rule it out since I think Irsay has let his emotions get the best of him over Peyton. A few weeks ago I gave a Manning return to Indy a ZERO percent chance, but like I said, I think Irsay is letting emotions come into play and IMO thats a horrible idea, but I can live with Peyton being back if he's completely healthy. I just sure as heck hope that Irsay knows for sure that he is 100% healthy before even giving him an incentive based contract.