The Tarik Factor

[schwamm]

I keep reading comments about how terrible our run game is, how Addai and Brown aren't cutting it, how aweful our OLine is, what a bust Ugoh was, and how we ought to have won more SBs in Manning's time with the team.

Consider this possibility - call it the Tarik Factor:

After or around the time of the SB win, what if Glenn made some comments about how tired he was and how he was starting to think about retiring. BP starts thinking that might occur a year or 2 out, and trades up in the 2nd round of that next draft to get Ugoh (trading the '08 1st rounder), anticipating that Ugoh would have a year, possible 2 to learn under Tarik (If he knew without a doubt that Glenn was leaving, I'd argue he would have gone LT in the 1st, possibly even trading up a little, instead of selecting Gonzo).

Instead, Glenn decides to retire earlier than expected before training camp, and Ugoh is thrust into a starting role without what had commonly been a typical 2 years (give or take) on the bench to learn the system for OL draftees. Without the proper foundational training, Ugoh "survives" his rookie season, showing some signs to encourage fans, but starts to tank in his 2nd year, loses all confidence in his game, and is quickly labled a bust. Worse still, the trade up to get Ugoh costs the team the next year's 1st rounder, and sets back the cohesion of the OLine for years.

Likewise, Edge has a a couple great seasons before departing for the Cardinals in '06, and Addai comes in as a rookie (in a tandem with Rhodes) and shows a great deal of promise. Who was still the LT in '06? Glenn. When he retires, we start to see the running game struggles, and after Ugoh's rookie season (where I still argue he did OK), the wheels seem to come off altogether.

As for the SBs, I think there is a legitimate arguement that we very well could have won another if Glenn had stayed on the team another couple years. I really like our chances to beat the Chargers in the playoffs after the '07 season if Glenn was still there, and credit PM's picks to shady line play. PM had a great game overall, and it ended up as close as it was because of those picks. Glenn would have gone a long way towards shoring up the line, and buying PM just that little bit more time to find the open receivers.

All this said... I like the selection of Castonzo last year, and really hope he continues to mature as a LT. It concerns me that he was thrust into the lineup in his rookie year, but I think he was more ready to handle it than Ugoh. If he pans out, I could see the Colts having a very solid OLine for the foreseeable future, I could see a significant uptick in our RB production (even with the guys currently on the roster), and I can see a substantially better record next year, regardless of who ends up under center.

Just my 2 pennies.

[Smonroe]

No doubt Glenn was a big loss. But I think the main reason we couldn't repeat was the loss of Freeney. If I'm not mistaken, we were the best D in the league most of that season. (In points allowed, which is the real stat)

[schwamm]

I certainly agree Freeney's Lisfranc was a factor that year, but we got Freeney back. I'm saying I think the loss of Glenn severely disrupted the OLine, and set it back for years, and likely putting much more of the strain on PM to carry the team (I keep picturing the PM happy feet dance). My recollection is that we've watched a carosel on that line ever since. Prior to his retirement, the OLine was a model of consistancy and durability, and was often considered among the very best in the league.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Ugoh actually played pretty well until he got hurt. He just never was able to get back once he did.

Arkansas fans warned about his work ethic and that possibly was a factor in his injury problems.

I agree with your premise though. Glenn was an excellent tackle. Unfortunately, he hardly ever got to go to the Pro Bowl because he played at the same time as several Hall of Fame caliber ones.

[IndyTrav]

Glenn was good. But you don't lose 1 LT and suddenly everything stinks. There are 4 other OL.

[Smonroe]

I certainly agree Freeney's Lisfranc was a factor that year, but we got Freeney back. I'm saying I think the loss of Glenn severely disrupted the OLine, and set it back for years, and likely putting much more of the strain on PM to carry the team (I keep picturing the PM happy feet dance). My recollection is that we've watched a carosel on that line ever since. Prior to his retirement, the OLine was a model of consistancy and durability, and was often considered among the very best in the league.

True, but it's not like the team fell apart after Glenn left. We did make it to another SB, in spite of how the O line played. I also agree that PM had to do a lot more to carry the team as the O-line got worse.

But you can also make a case for Freeney's injury, especially in the second half, as a big factor in the SB loss.

[schwamm]

Glenn was good. But you don't lose 1 LT and suddenly everything stinks. There are 4 other OL.

True, but it's not like the team fell apart after Glenn left. We did make it to another SB, in spite of how the O line played. I also agree that PM had to do a lot more to carry the team as the O-line got worse.

But you can also make a case for Freeney's injury, especially in the second half, as a big factor in the SB loss.

I'm not saying the team tanked right away, but that it created a ripple effect that led to last year. After Ugoh's rookie season, the team had to almost constantly shuffle the deck to try to keep the line from leaking like a sieve, and BP was constantly trying to plug holes (unsuccessfully) through the draft. We also lost the stretch play because Ugoh/Charlie Johnson were never able to hold the edge the way Glenn did. That all put more pressure on PM to carry the team, and hide all its flaws, and without Peyton last year, all the team's weaknesses were exposed.

As for my comment that Glenn's retirment may have cost us additional SBs, I would say it is a huge leap for sure. There are surely a ton of reasons we failed in subsequent attempts, but I would have liked our chances with a better running game and more time for PM to throw. I think we would have had that with Glenn.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I'm not saying the team tanked right away, but that it created a ripple effect that led to last year. After Ugoh's rookie season, the team had to almost constantly shuffle the deck to try to keep the line from leaking like a sieve, and BP was constantly trying to plug holes (unsuccessfully) through the draft. We also lost the stretch play because Ugoh/Charlie Johnson were never able to hold the edge the way Glenn did. That all put more pressure on PM to carry the team, and hide all its flaws, and without Peyton last year, all the team's weaknesses were exposed.

As for my comment that Glenn's retirment may have cost us additional SBs, I would say it is a huge leap for sure. There are surely a ton of reasons we failed in subsequent attempts, but I would have liked our chances with a better running game and more time for PM to throw. I think we would have had that with Glenn.

People often really don't understand the importance of the offensive line

It truly is the foundation of a football team and the stronger the line is the stronger the team will be

But of course, I think that. I was a left tackle in high school and college ;)

[Mameluc]

i think Glen was a good factor on it...but so it was keeping lilja instead of jake

[pacolts56]

i think Glen was a good factor on it...but so it was keeping lilja instead of jake

Very true..... and OG has been a revolving door of mediocrity ever since.

The running game suffered from both Glenn and Scott's retirement/departure.... which is why OG needs to be a point of immediate emphasis IMO.

[coltsfanej]

A good Oline can really solidify a team and hide any short comings of a QB. A QB with 4 seconds can do a lot more than one with 2 seconds. As well as a QB that has the help of the run game to keep the D honest and take some of the pressure off. After QB, O line is most important part of an offense.

Some might say the Oline is the most important and I would not argue that point either, but to me a QB is the most important because a good QB can make every position on offense look better.

[SubZero]

I keep reading comments about how terrible our run game is, how Addai and Brown aren't cutting it, how aweful our OLine is, what a bust Ugoh was, and how we ought to have won more SBs in Manning's time with the team.

Consider this possibility - call it the Tarik Factor:

After or around the time of the SB win, what if Glenn made some comments about how tired he was and how he was starting to think about retiring. BP starts thinking that might occur a year or 2 out, and trades up in the 2nd round of that next draft to get Ugoh (trading the '08 1st rounder), anticipating that Ugoh would have a year, possible 2 to learn under Tarik (If he knew without a doubt that Glenn was leaving, I'd argue he would have gone LT in the 1st, possibly even trading up a little, instead of selecting Gonzo).

Instead, Glenn decides to retire earlier than expected before training camp, and Ugoh is thrust into a starting role without what had commonly been a typical 2 years (give or take) on the bench to learn the system for OL draftees. Without the proper foundational training, Ugoh "survives" his rookie season, showing some signs to encourage fans, but starts to tank in his 2nd year, loses all confidence in his game, and is quickly labled a bust. Worse still, the trade up to get Ugoh costs the team the next year's 1st rounder, and sets back the cohesion of the OLine for years.

Likewise, Edge has a a couple great seasons before departing for the Cardinals in '06, and Addai comes in as a rookie (in a tandem with Rhodes) and shows a great deal of promise. Who was still the LT in '06? Glenn. When he retires, we start to see the running game struggles, and after Ugoh's rookie season (where I still argue he did OK), the wheels seem to come off altogether.

As for the SBs, I think there is a legitimate arguement that we very well could have won another if Glenn had stayed on the team another couple years. I really like our chances to beat the Chargers in the playoffs after the '07 season if Glenn was still there, and credit PM's picks to shady line play. PM had a great game overall, and it ended up as close as it was because of those picks. Glenn would have gone a long way towards shoring up the line, and buying PM just that little bit more time to find the open receivers.

All this said... I like the selection of Castonzo last year, and really hope he continues to mature as a LT. It concerns me that he was thrust into the lineup in his rookie year, but I think he was more ready to handle it than Ugoh. If he pans out, I could see the Colts having a very solid OLine for the foreseeable future, I could see a significant uptick in our RB production (even with the guys currently on the roster), and I can see a substantially better record next year, regardless of who ends up under center.

Just my 2 pennies.

Glenn was good just bad work ethic

[schwamm]

Glenn was good just bad work ethic

Not my recollection at all. He got worn out, and didn't feel like beating himself up any more, so he retired before the team was prepared for it.

I never saw a bad work ethic on the field, or in any of the preseason practices I attended. Maybe I missed something, thought.

[21isSuperman]

Glenn was good. But you don't lose 1 LT and suddenly everything stinks. There are 4 other OL.

Keep in mind we soon after lost Jake Scott (who went to the Titans and paved the way for a 2000 yard rusher) and Ryan Lilja (who helped pave the way for the Chiefs who became the league' best rushing team a few years ago)

[jemack]

Keep in mind we soon after lost Jake Scott (who went to the Titans and paved the way for a 2000 yard rusher) and Ryan Lilja (who helped pave the way for the Chiefs who became the league' best rushing team a few years ago)

And was Polians philosophy. Pay for the edge positions and neglect the interior on both sides of the line. This is why the Colts have had problems running and stopping the run consistantly for so long. I'll call it the Polian Factor.

[chad72]

And was Polians philosophy. Pay for the edge positions and neglect the interior on both sides of the line. This is why the Colts have had problems running and stopping the run consistantly for so long. I'll call it the Polian Factor.

Contrary to this, the Saints go with 2 Pro Bowl guards, and don't put a premium on the edge as long as Brees can step in thanks to his guards keeping the shortest distance to the QB inaccessible.

[Portage Coltfans]

I'm a huge believer in the O-line. Brady is good, but he is RARELY touched, and has an amazing line. Right after QB, I put the entire O-line as the next important position

[Smonroe]

I'm a huge believer in the O-line. Brady is good, but he is RARELY touched, and has an amazing line. Right after QB, I put the entire O-line as the next important position

Totally agree. A great O-line can make an average RB great, gives receivers more time to get open, and allows the QB to get through progressions to find them.

Brady is a great QB, but if he and Peyton switched teams I think PM would come out way ahead.

[John Dee]

Letting Scott and then Lilja go is what really killed Indy's running game. They were 2 very good G's.... That the team is still trying to replace.

[Smonroe]

Letting Scott and then Lilja go is what really killed Indy's running game. They were 2 very good G's.... That the team is still trying to replace.

Yeah, it's already been discussed, but in essence you're right. Scott was a money decision that proved a mistake when Lilja was hurt. I still don't understand why Lilja was then let go. They said it was injury but he played great for KC.

Oh, add in a bunch of draft picks at G that didn't work out either.

[LightninMax]

I keep reading comments about how terrible our run game is, how Addai and Brown aren't cutting it, how aweful our OLine is, what a bust Ugoh was, and how we ought to have won more SBs in Manning's time with the team.

Consider this possibility - call it the Tarik Factor:

After or around the time of the SB win, what if Glenn made some comments about how tired he was and how he was starting to think about retiring. BP starts thinking that might occur a year or 2 out, and trades up in the 2nd round of that next draft to get Ugoh (trading the '08 1st rounder), anticipating that Ugoh would have a year, possible 2 to learn under Tarik (If he knew without a doubt that Glenn was leaving, I'd argue he would have gone LT in the 1st, possibly even trading up a little, instead of selecting Gonzo).

Instead, Glenn decides to retire earlier than expected before training camp, and Ugoh is thrust into a starting role without what had commonly been a typical 2 years (give or take) on the bench to learn the system for OL draftees. Without the proper foundational training, Ugoh "survives" his rookie season, showing some signs to encourage fans, but starts to tank in his 2nd year, loses all confidence in his game, and is quickly labled a bust. Worse still, the trade up to get Ugoh costs the team the next year's 1st rounder, and sets back the cohesion of the OLine for years.

Likewise, Edge has a a couple great seasons before departing for the Cardinals in '06, and Addai comes in as a rookie (in a tandem with Rhodes) and shows a great deal of promise. Who was still the LT in '06? Glenn. When he retires, we start to see the running game struggles, and after Ugoh's rookie season (where I still argue he did OK), the wheels seem to come off altogether.

As for the SBs, I think there is a legitimate arguement that we very well could have won another if Glenn had stayed on the team another couple years. I really like our chances to beat the Chargers in the playoffs after the '07 season if Glenn was still there, and credit PM's picks to shady line play. PM had a great game overall, and it ended up as close as it was because of those picks. Glenn would have gone a long way towards shoring up the line, and buying PM just that little bit more time to find the open receivers.

All this said... I like the selection of Castonzo last year, and really hope he continues to mature as a LT. It concerns me that he was thrust into the lineup in his rookie year, but I think he was more ready to handle it than Ugoh. If he pans out, I could see the Colts having a very solid OLine for the foreseeable future, I could see a significant uptick in our RB production (even with the guys currently on the roster), and I can see a substantially better record next year, regardless of who ends up under center.

Just my 2 pennies.

Lilja exited shortly after Glenn and Scott shortly after that. Losing Charlie Johnson last year was the capper. That's how we got to where we are. Glenn was the start of the O-line situations, just as Marvin's retirement was the start of the WR situations.

With the help of a good draft and a few FA moves this team is still a Super Bowl quality team, it just needs a top flight experienced QB.

The Super Bowl loss all turned on the onside kick starting the second half. Even a field goal on that possesion would have put us up two scores. Instead, we're behind and trading scores for the rest of the game.