Surprised

[Phil J]

nice article by Kravitz for once. speaks to the point that what is going to happen isn't anyone's fault.

http://www.indystar....=nletter-sports

[chrisfarley]

Why does there have to be a Manning decision before March 4? What's the hurry?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Why does there have to be a Manning decision before March 4? What's the hurry?

March 8th is his due date, but it seems he would prefer to know sooner rather than later. I think he knows what is going to happen and would just prefer the process to be quicker than dragging it out.

[UndecidedFrog]

March 8th is his due date, but it seems he would prefer to know sooner rather than later. I think he knows what is going to happen and would just prefer the process to be quicker than dragging it out.

Agreed, PM would prefer a decision sooner than later, and the Colts would prefer a decision later (March 8) rather than sooner, to make sure that they know what condition PM's arm is at. Nobody seems to know how his arm will be in the future, so the Colts will make the final decision as late as possible.

The only way I see Irsay agreeing to make a decision sooner is if:

1) PM is able to demonstrate that his arm is back to 100% now, and the new contract terms have been agreed to.

2) PM decides to retire now

3) Irsay disregards his leverage and foregoes the March 8 date in deference for his friendship with PM.

[Coltssouth]

Edit: I can't say why I first typed as my initial reaction. ::

"This has been painted as Irsay versus Manning, Manning versus Irsay, "

Well who started that in the first place? Isn't he the one who first said there was conflict between them? This is the second time he has counterdicted himself. Needless to say I am not happy with him right now.

I am slow to anger, but once angered, slow also to forgive. I'm not ready to forgive in his case yet.

[Susie Q]

Thanks Coltssouth I agree 100%. Good article but it does go against everything he has said previously in a lot of articles. Like I have always said Kravitz talks out of both sides of his mouth and will never change. JMO of course.

[John Dee]

March 8th is his due date, but it seems he would prefer to know sooner rather than later. I think he knows what is going to happen and would just prefer the process to be quicker than dragging it out.

some season ticket holders want to know before the deadline to renew is up... March 3rd or 4th or something like that...

Some think if Manning is released there will be a mass exodus of season ticket re ups.... I don't think so howerver..

[CS Colts Fan]

time will tell.. I too have not been happy the way this has been handled through the media.. but if he isn't ready or close to the other issue is the money available for other contracts and FA... we will all know soon

[FireJimCaldwell]

some season ticket holders want to know before the deadline to renew is up... March 3rd or 4th or something like that...

Some think if Manning is released there will be a mass exodus of season ticket re ups.... I don't think so howerver..

There would be some turnover obviously, but for to matter to the Colts that # would have to absorb the waiting list, which I've seen reported to be 10k.... So I doubt that happens, but it does make sense for the Colts to push it back as late as they can with that being one reason.

[ruksak]

Some think if Manning is released there will be a mass exodus of season ticket re ups.... I don't think so howerver..

Fully agree. I don't believe the season ticket sales would drop until next year if it was shown we had little reason to believe in Luck.

[oldunclemark]

• But still no acceptance of ever the remotest possibility that Manning will simply sign a restructured contract and stay with the Colts.....
  

Not even the suggestion of the slightest chance of that. Opinion trumps all possibility.

I dont understand.

[GAColt]

If Irsay has made the decision to release him before season tickets are due, he should go ahead and do it. However, it would be irresponsible of him to rush a decision just to meet that deadline. He should take all the time necessary to get as much information as possible.

[oldunclemark]

If Irsay has made the decision to release him before season tickets are due, he should go ahead and do it. However, it would be irresponsible of him to rush a decision just to meet that deadline. He should take all the time necessary to get as much information as possible.

If Irsay had made the decision to release Manning, dont you think he'd have done it by now?

[doogansquest]

• But still no acceptance of ever the remotest possibility that Manning will simply sign a restructured contract and stay with the Colts.....
  

Not even the suggestion of the slightest chance of that. Opinion trumps all possibility.

I dont understand.

I agree with you, but the media hasn't been spinning that tale and they won't jump on it now. They are too far invested in Manning being gone, and being the outlet that "got it right" if that happens.

I think everything and anything is possible. I believe both Manning and Irsay when they say they want to make it work here. I don't buy that there's no way for them to come up with a new deal or restructure. I think we haven't heard anything concrete because the decision has not been made. If it had been, there wouldn't be any reason to prolong it further.

[ruksak]

I agree with you, but the media hasn't been spinning that tale and they won't jump on it now. They are too far invested in Manning being gone, and being the outlet that "got it right" if that happens.

This is what I've been meaning to say for weeks now. Almost verbatim, you stole my thoughts.

They all wanna be able to say they were the guy that called it....and boy will they ever if they're right. Rarely, if ever, do they or their colleagues call themselves on the mistakes.

[betheafan41]

March 8th is his due date, but it seems he would prefer to know sooner rather than later. I think he knows what is going to happen and would just prefer the process to be quicker than dragging it out.

Im sure PM wants out now, but wants to wait so he can use to the team doctors while he still can.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Im sure PM wants out now, but wants to wait so he can use to the team doctors while he still can.

Quite possibly, but technically, a 3rd party doctor was the one that performed the surgery, and he has been working out at least for a short period at Duke with his former offensive coordinator at Tennessee. If that is ongoing, then obviously he knows the direction that his is going. I think most of us know that direction as well.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I agree with you, but the media hasn't been spinning that tale and they won't jump on it now. They are too far invested in Manning being gone, and being the outlet that "got it right" if that happens.

I think everything and anything is possible. I believe both Manning and Irsay when they say they want to make it work here. I don't buy that there's no way for them to come up with a new deal or restructure. I think we haven't heard anything concrete because the decision has not been made. If it had been, there wouldn't be any reason to prolong it further.

Some have said there is wiggle room in the CBA to do that. I don't see it. It would be nice for the NFL to clarify that yes it can be done or not it can't but that isn't going to happen and all we are left with is speculation and opinions.

I can think of a few reasons for it to be prolonged

• Season ticket due date(early March), not a big deal, but still a negative if some are cancelling based on the decision. It would have to absorb the waiting list(a reported 10k) to have an adverse effect on the franchise
  
• If an announcement was made this week, the combine would be abuzz about Manning v. Irsay, it will anyway, but I think a delayed decision would be better than a quicker one from the NFL perspective surrounding the combine.
  

[oldunclemark]

I understand that Irsay has to find the money for a quality team going forward and that may cause him to make drastic moves.

He has said that.

But I dont know where the idea that Manning wants to leave Indianapolis comes from?

He has never said that and that's

the leap of logic that's made nationally. That somehow he is offended that Irsay wont (and he wont) pay the $28 mil bonus.

Manning asked that the $28 mi deadline be put in because both sides knew he was hurt. Irsay wanted Manning to be the highest paid player in the NFL.....he said so many times..

I think that Peyton Manning is so tied to Indianapolis...that he only leaves when he retires...

[UndecidedFrog]

But I dont know where the idea that Manning wants to leave Indianapolis comes from?

It is based on conjecture from the following facts:

1) Irsay has said he will use the #1 overall pick on either Luck or RG3, both QBs.

2) Irsay has said that the team is in rebuild mode

3) Irsay has replaced the GM, the HC, the DC, and the OC, yet demoted the old OC to be the QB coach.

4) Media has speculated that he would receive rich offers to play from various NFL teams assuming his arm is back.

5) The 2012 cap numbers show how tight things will be for the Colts if they retain Manning

[oldunclemark]

It is based on conjecture from the following facts:

1) Irsay has said he will use the #1 overall pick on either Luck or RG3, both QBs.

2) Irsay has said that the team is in rebuild mode

3) Irsay has replaced the GM, the HC, the DC, and the OC, yet demoted the old OC to be the QB coach.

4) Media has speculated that he would receive rich offers to play from various NFL teams assuming his arm is back.

5) The 2012 cap numbers show how tight things will be for the Colts if they retain Manning

But FROG MAN..

..all 5 are reasons why Irsay might want (and I'm not saying he does) Manning to leave...

Not why he would WANT to go..

The vast majority of his offensive teammates (and last season, they were REALLY offensive) are still her..

..and he's tied to the community off the field..

Its logical to think he WANTS to go to an unfamiliar place where he is not liked?

[braveheartcolt]

I've just had a play on my ouija board, and it said....... M A N N I N G G O N E .

[BNS]

I've just had a play on my ouija board, and it said....... M A N N I N G G O N E .

Now we know the "source" of all the news from ESPN and the Indy Star! LOL

[Smonroe]

It is based on conjecture from the following facts:

1) Irsay has said he will use the #1 overall pick on either Luck or RG3, both QBs.

2) Irsay has said that the team is in rebuild mode

3) Irsay has replaced the GM, the HC, the DC, and the OC, yet demoted the old OC to be the QB coach.

4) Media has speculated that he would receive rich offers to play from various NFL teams assuming his arm is back.

5) The 2012 cap numbers show how tight things will be for the Colts if they retain Manning

You left out: Manning has repeatedly said he'd love to play for one team his entire career. He's said he loves Indy. Irsay has gone on record that he wants him back if he's healthy.

I'm not disputing that Manning may be released, just that he doesn't necessarily want to go.

IMHO, I think Peyton would love to stay in Indy and for the Colts to trade that #1 pick to fill holes around him and be a contender for the next three years. I also think Peyton realizes that may not be the best long term solution.

[Coltsagent]

I so sick and tired of Kravitz!! Every single article, EVERY SINGLE article is some slant on Manning HAS to go. There is just no other way that life go ever go on if Peyton plays in Indy. I cant take him anymore. I just dont understand why Manning HAS to go.

I feel like Michael J. Fox in American President screaming into the phone after he gets the no vote...."we are going to win this thing...you know what I am going to do....I'm going to order a big steak and make a list of everybody who tried to XXXX us"

[BlueRedZone]

I so sick and tired of Kravitz!! Every single article, EVERY SINGLE article is some slant on Manning HAS to go. There is just no other way that life go ever go on if Peyton plays in Indy. I cant take him anymore. I just dont understand why Manning HAS to go.

The media is warming us up to the idea of Manning being gone. Which to me makes sense. You can't afford to pay two qb's premium level salaries. Especially when there are so many other needs on this team.

Do we want to make the playoffs and sputter out or do we want to make the playoffs and have a legit shot at bringing home the superbowl trophy?

I fail to see on how we can have a shot at the superbowl with 40+ mil tied into two players and with one of the two not seeing the field.

Question... Should we have won more than one title with Peyton Manning as our qb?

Then why didn't we?

Thats why he needs to go, we need a better supporting cast (offensively,defensively, and special teams wise)

[Coltsagent]

The media is warming us up to the idea of Manning being gone. Which to me makes sense. You can't afford to pay two qb's premium level salaries. Especially when there are so many other needs on this team.

Do we want to make the playoffs and sputter out or do we want to make the playoffs and have a legit shot at bringing home the superbowl trophy?

I fail to see on how we can have a shot at the superbowl with 40+ mil tied into two players and with one of the two not seeing the field.

Question... Should we have won more than one title with Peyton Manning as our qb?

Then why didn't we?

Thats why he needs to go, we need a better supporting cast (offensively,defensively, and special teams wise)

Why did we lose last year: #1 We did not have a back-up QB, check we draft one. And #2 we did not have Peyton Freaking Manning! You can site all kinds of numbers about defense and other holes but without confidence in the QB spot we have nothing. If Peyton can play I for one dont want to wait around for a rookie QB to learn. I can care less about how much money it cost. Players win games, Players make TEAMS, not payrolls.

[UndecidedFrog]

But FROG MAN..

..all 5 are reasons why Irsay might want (and I'm not saying he does) Manning to leave...

Not why he would WANT to go..

The vast majority of his offensive teammates (and last season, they were REALLY offensive) are still her..

..and he's tied to the community off the field..

Its logical to think he WANTS to go to an unfamiliar place where he is not liked?

Mark,

So you don't think any of the 5 facts above would make PM think it may be a good idea to leave?

May I borrow one of your favorite quotes?.....C'mon man.

[UndecidedFrog]

You left out: Manning has repeatedly said he'd love to play for one team his entire career. He's said he loves Indy. Irsay has gone on record that he wants him back if he's healthy.

I'm not disputing that Manning may be released, just that he doesn't necessarily want to go.

IMHO, I think Peyton would love to stay in Indy and for the Colts to trade that #1 pick to fill holes around him and be a contender for the next three years. I also think Peyton realizes that may not be the best long term solution.

The list was in response to Mark's question why PM might want to leave.

It was not meant to be exhaustive to include why PM might want to stay.

[BlueRedZone]

Why did we lose last year: #1 We did not have a back-up QB, check we draft one. And #2 we did not have Peyton Freaking Manning! You can site all kinds of numbers about defense and other holes but without confidence in the QB spot we have nothing. If Peyton can play I for one dont want to wait around for a rookie QB to learn. I can care less about how much money it cost. Players win games, Players make TEAMS, not payrolls.

Why did we lose last year?

So the whole reason we lost last year is because we did not have Peyton Manning?

Teams win championships. 1 player does not account for the entire team.

I agree that with Peyton Manning we would've been better than we were last year. But, we still wouldn't of gone very far.

Missing on countless of draft picks in early rounds will make you fill your team with 2nd and 3rd tier talent. Making the team worse and worse over time.

I know we have found diamonds in the rough, but we shouldn't have to if we hit on our draft picks.

The qb position is important to the team and thats why we are going to invest a number 1 overall pick into one in this upcoming draft.

However we have a lot of holes all over the field that need attention too. Also payrolls fill a team because with the new CBA intact owners must use a certain percentage of there payroll on there team.

[wercolts]

I agree with you, but the media hasn't been spinning that tale and they won't jump on it now. They are too far invested in Manning being gone, and being the outlet that "got it right" if that happens.

I think everything and anything is possible. I believe both Manning and Irsay when they say they want to make it work here. I don't buy that there's no way for them to come up with a new deal or restructure. I think we haven't heard anything concrete because the decision has not been made. If it had been, there wouldn't be any reason to prolong it further.

Ditto

[Coltsagent]

"So the whole reason we lost last year is because we did not have Peyton Manning?"

YES! Occam's Razor: the principle that if you have competing hypotheses selecting the one that makes the fewest assumptions and the simplest explanation will be the most plausible

[oldunclemark]

Mark,

So you don't think any of the 5 facts above would make PM think it may be a good idea to leave?

May I borrow one of your favorite quotes?.....C'mon man.

FROG....honestly...not really....I think you are assigning him character motives that he has not displayed..

I dont see Peyton Manning being afraid of losing his job to Andrew Luck...Has he given you the impression he's that kind of guy...?

.....and I think Manning would tutor Luck for a couple of years as his understudy if Luck wanted that (which I dont think he does)

WE can agree that Peyton Manning doesnt need money. I believe he is the richest active player in the NFL (I should say the one who has the highest income last year..) I never get the impression he's motivated by money../

Irsay has replaced a lot of coaches..but (and I apologize for using this stat again) but 15 of the 22 starters for the Colts in the Super Bowl started last season for us... His team is still here...He may actually LIKE some of them..and he might even want to win for Irsay and the city of Indianapolis, as high-minded as that might sound

the one factor you may have much merit with in my mind is that if Irsay told Manning..the franchise would be better off without you in the long run....he might then think its a good idea to leave...

But 'thinking it is a good idea' to leave and 'wanting to leave' are different things to me

[MR. Blueblood]

The media is warming us up to the idea of Manning being gone. Which to me makes sense. You can't afford to pay two qb's premium level salaries. Especially when there are so many other needs on this team.

Do we want to make the playoffs and sputter out or do we want to make the playoffs and have a legit shot at bringing home the superbowl trophy?

I fail to see on how we can have a shot at the superbowl with 40+ mil tied into two players and with one of the two not seeing the field.

Question... Should we have won more than one title with Peyton Manning as our qb?

Then why didn't we?

Thats why he needs to go, we need a better supporting cast (offensively,defensively, and special teams wise)

By the time you add up Collins, Painter, and Orlovsky's salary last season, I'm sure you'll get pretty close to what they'll be paying Luck. So what's the difference?

[UndecidedFrog]

FROG....honestly...not really....I think you are assigning him character motives that he has not displayed..

No, I am not assigning any character motives to him. I am merely pointing out some facts that he may take into consideration. Do I know what goes on inside his head? No, I don't. However, I can safely say that these facts I have previously listed may enter into his thinking.

I dont see Peyton Manning being afraid of losing his job to Andrew Luck...Has he given you the impression he's that kind of guy...?

.....and I think Manning would tutor Luck for a couple of years as his understudy if Luck wanted that (which I dont think he does)

I didn't say PM was afraid of anything. Did I?

I didn't say PM was or was not interested in tutoring anyone, did I?

WE can agree that Peyton Manning doesnt need money. I believe he is the richest active player in the NFL (I should say the one who has the highest income last year..) I never get the impression he's motivated by money../

I don't know PM's money situation, nor do I speculate what it may be.

I don't pretend to know what motivates PM, be it money or other things.

I never claimed he was motivated by money, did I?

Irsay has replaced a lot of coaches..but (and I apologize for using this stat again) but 15 of the 22 starters for the Colts in the Super Bowl started last season for us... His team is still here...He may actually LIKE some of them..and he might even want to win for Irsay and the city of Indianapolis, as high-minded as that might sound

We have not seen what the roster will be like after all the player personnel moves have been made. Given what I know of the cap situation, I think some, if not many of the 15 may not be part of the team going forward.

the one factor you may have much merit with in my mind is that if Irsay told Manning..the franchise would be better off without you in the long run....he might then think its a good idea to leave...

But 'thinking it is a good idea' to leave and 'wanting to leave' are different things to me

Yes, thinking it is a good idea to leave is different than wanting to leave. I think it takes some time for one to percolate/morph into the other.

[UndecidedFrog]

By the time you add up Collins, Painter, and Orlovsky's salary last season, I'm sure you'll get pretty close to what they'll be paying Luck. So what's the difference?

Yes.

Another way to look at it is....remember the $26.4MM paid to PM last season? That entire sum would more than pay for Luck's entire 4-year rookie contract, and have $3.3MM to spare.

[MR. Blueblood]

Yes.

Another way to look at it is....remember the $26.4MM paid to PM last season? That entire sum would more than pay for Luck's entire 4-year rookie contract, and have $3.3MM to spare.

True.

I was just responding to his "You can't afford to pay two qb's premium level salaries" comment. Which isn't true since the new CBA, IMO, doesn't make Luck's salary a premium QB level. I think some people are still under the impression that he's going to get $50-70 mil, like in previous drafts.

[UndecidedFrog]

True.

I was just responding to his "You can't afford to pay two qb's premium level salaries" comment. Which isn't true since the new CBA, IMO, doesn't make Luck's salary a premium QB level. I think some people are still under the impression that he's going to get $50-70 mil, like in previous drafts.

Yep, with the new CBA, even the #1 overall pick is slotted to make a modest 4 year contract.

Even estimating a 5% increase over Cam Newton's contract from last year, Luck's deal will be $23.1MM over 4 years.

[braveheartcolt]

"So the whole reason we lost last year is because we did not have Peyton Manning?"

YES! Occam's Razor: the principle that if you have competing hypotheses selecting the one that makes the fewest assumptions and the simplest explanation will be the most plausible

Stuff Occams Razor. My Tarot Cards say.....M A N N I N G G O N E .

[oldunclemark]

No, I am not assigning any character motives to him. I am merely pointing out some facts that he may take into consideration. Do I know what goes on inside his head? No, I don't. However, I can safely say that these facts I have previously listed may enter into his thinking.

I didn't say PM was afraid of anything. Did I?

I didn't say PM was or was not interested in tutoring anyone, did I?

I don't know PM's money situation, nor do I speculate what it may be.

I don't pretend to know what motivates PM, be it money or other things.

I never claimed he was motivated by money, did I?

We have not seen what the roster will be like after all the player personnel moves have been made. Given what I know of the cap situation, I think some, if not many of the 15 may not be part of the team going forward.

Yes, thinking it is a good idea to leave is different than wanting to leave. I think it takes some time for one to percolate/morph into the other.

FROG MAN...

Why can you 'safely say' the 5 points you made...

1) Irsay has said he will use the #1 overall pick on either Luck or RG3, both QBs.

2) Irsay has said that the team is in rebuild mode

3) Irsay has replaced the GM, the HC, the DC, and the OC, yet demoted the old OC to be the QB coach.

4) Media has speculated that he would receive rich offers to play from various NFL teams assuming his arm is back.

5) The 2012 cap numbers show how tight things will be for the Colts if they retain Manning

...may enter into his thinking...about leaving?

I still wonder what gives you that impression.?

Why would drafting his potential successor put leaving on his mind? He has nothing to worry from a rookie

Why would media speculation about rich offers elsewhere put leaving on his mind...? I submit to you that Peyton is well off.

He has deep ties here...His home has been here 1/3 of his life.....all his offensive teammates are still here

...(and he has adoring fans like you) 'Rebuild mode' could include him

If you didnt say or suggest what i thought you said and suggested and you dont 'pretend to know' anything about his thinking.

....then.again....what makes you think he might develop a desire to leave Indy?

'Cause I dont see the reasons...