Is Elway lucky or a genius ?

[dw49]

Just look at what he has done in free agency alone. His additions have been crazy good. No doubt spectacular there. Maybe the "lucky" part is how the QB situation played out. I really think Trevor Siemian is better than Brock O. From all reports they were ready to pay Osweiler a little less than Houston paid him ? Osweier has the arm and mobility to be a good QB but looks to me that Simian in his 2nd year is a better QB than Osweiler is in his 5th. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

Just look at what he has done in free agency alone. His additions have been crazy good. No doubt spectacular there. Maybe the "lucky" part is how the QB situation played out. I really think Trevor Siemian is better than Brock O. From all reports they were ready to pay Osweiler a little less than Houston paid him ? Osweier has the arm and mobility to be a good QB but looks to me that Simian in his 2nd year is a better QB than Osweiler is in his 5th. 

 

What the Texans did not factor in is that if Osweiler was trained for another system, he is more likely to be valuable for that system than a new system. So, the $16 mil. per that John Elway was going to pay was for Brock to work within a system he knew enough about. However, the Texans were shooting in the dark because they had to make the offer and there is no such thing as a waiting period for a QB once free agency starts to work out a player, talk to him about his comfort level with your system etc. 

 

Good for Brock he cashed in but the Texans are left holding the bag. Siemian was the other QB already familiar with their system, so his production far exceeds what the Broncos expected. Just the fact that they are in position to play for a wild card is more than they could ask for, IMO.

[JimJaime]

The Broncos are fighting for their playoff life. If they had an AVEEAGE QB  they would be cruising to a division title. Also add into the fact teams have figured out their D and scoring a lot on them!

[dw49]

24 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

What the Texans did not factor in is that if Osweiler was trained for another system, he is more likely to be valuable for that system than a new system. So, the $16 mil. per that John Elway was going to pay was for Brock to work within a system he knew enough about. However, the Texans were shooting in the dark because they had to make the offer and there is no such thing as a waiting period for a QB once free agency starts to work out a player, talk to him about his comfort level with your system etc. 

 

Good for Brock he cashed in but the Texans are left holding the bag. Siemian was the other QB already familiar with their system, so his production far exceeds what the Broncos expected. Just the fact that they are in position to play for a wild card is more than they could ask for, IMO.

 

What you say is no doubt accurate , but QB's go into different systems all the time. How many did Luck have to learn in the same number of years as Brock ? He's a 5 year vet and other than one game (I think it was 1 ?)  last year , he didn't show much in the Denver system. I think you are correct saying Houston is left holding the bag as despite have the talent , Oweiler maybe is just another example of a "gifted" QB not turning out to be a good NFL QB. If he's a bust , Houston get's slaughtered in 2017 with his contract and then the "pain" is pretty much over. Most of the guaranteed money was in years 1 and 2. What is really the kicker is if his play does not improve , they pretty much HAVE to give Savage a chance in 2017 s that's the last year of his contract.... if it doesn't happen this year.  Looking at the Osweiler contract , it makes zero sense to cut him in 2017 as everything is guaranteed . So it's (IMO) very possible ,in 2017 ,you could see a healthy 27 year old QB earning 19 million $'s as a back up.  SHUDDER..

[Superman]

49 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

The Broncos are fighting for their playoff life. If they had an AVEEAGE QB  they would be cruising to a division title. Also add into the fact teams have figured out their D and scoring a lot on them!

 

Siemian actually played a pretty good game yesterday, all considered. And that division is tough this year. A great QB might have squeezed out an extra win or two, and maybe some of their other games would have been a little less stressful, but it's hard to see the Broncos having a significantly better record than they have now. 

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

What you say is no doubt accurate , but QB's go into different systems all the time. How many did Luck have to learn in the same number of years as Brock ? He's a 5 year vet and other than one game (I think it was 1 ?)  last year , he didn't show much in the Denver system. I think you are correct saying Houston is left holding the bag as despite have the talent , Oweiler maybe is just another example of a "gifted" QB not turning out to be a good NFL QB. If he's a bust , Houston get's slaughtered in 2017 with his contract and then the "pain" is pretty much over. Most of the guaranteed money was in years 1 and 2. What is really the kicker is if his play does not improve , they pretty much HAVE to give Savage a chance in 2017 s that's the last year of his contract.... if it doesn't happen this year.  Looking at the Osweiler contract , it makes zero sense to cut him in 2017 as everything is guaranteed . So it's (IMO) very possible ,in 2017 ,you could see a healthy 27 year old QB earning 19 million $'s as a back up.  SHUDDER..

 

At the start of the season that was the Colin Kaepernick situation.  He was healthy and making a ton of money on his contract but was the backup for a while.

 

Right now the Tony Romo situation is like that too.  

 

Not unheard of

[JimJaime]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Siemian actually played a pretty good game yesterday, all considered. And that division is tough this year. A great QB might have squeezed out an extra win or two, and maybe some of their other games would have been a little less stressful, but it's hard to see the Broncos having a significantly better record than they have now. 

I see a good/average QB winning SD and the KC game last night. An elite QB has 1 loss so far this year as they also beat Oakland (IMO) with a Brady,Brees, Big Ben type QB.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, dw49 said:

Just look at what he has done in free agency alone. His additions have been crazy good. No doubt spectacular there. Maybe the "lucky" part is how the QB situation played out. I really think Trevor Siemian is better than Brock O. From all reports they were ready to pay Osweiler a little less than Houston paid him ? Osweier has the arm and mobility to be a good QB but looks to me that Simian in his 2nd year is a better QB than Osweiler is in his 5th. 

 

I don't know if Siemian is better than Osweiler, just that Siemian is kind of outperforming expectations (not by a lot), while Osweiler is playing worse than expected.

 

As for Elway's work in free agency, he does seem to have an unmatched record of success with his signings. They are very active every year, and all his big signings seem to hit. His cap work and contract structures are masterful. And he lets the right guys walk. You mentioned Osweiler, but how about $14m/year for Malik Jackson? How about swapping Decker at $7m/year for Sanders at $5m/year? Sanders just got a big raise, but he earned it, while Decker has been somewhat disappointing for the Jets...

 

Elway and his staff are doing a great job, and I'd probably call them the best front office in the league over the last five years. I don't think it's luck, I think they're just making great calls and staying disciplined with their cap. He took the perfect approach with Manning, which helped make them an attractive FA destination, and they've drafted well enough (some misses, but a lot of hits). He even nailed his somewhat controversial coaching change. At a certain point, credit is due.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

I see a good/average QB winning SD and the KC game last night. An elite QB has 1 loss so far this year as they also beat Oakland (IMO) with a Brady,Brees, Big Ben type QB.

 

How many average QBs are putting up 368 yards and 3 TDs with no picks against the #5 scoring defense in the league? He also got sacked five times... 

 

Siemian made a bunch of big time throws in that game, including huge plays on third down. He wasn't perfect, and I think a very good to great QB might have made some of the more routine plays, especially earlier on. But you're acting like he held them back, and he really didn't. 

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

At the start of the season that was the Colin Kaepernick situation.  He was healthy and making a ton of money on his contract but was the backup for a while.

 

Right now the Tony Romo situation is like that too.  

 

Not unheard of

 

It's certainly not ideal...

 

And in both of those situations, the highly paid guy was/is dealing with injury. I doubt Osweiler gets benched, but if he does it would be ugly.

[JimJaime]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

How many average QBs are putting up 368 yards and 3 TDs with no picks against the #5 scoring defense in the league? He also got sacked five times... 

 

Siemian made a bunch of big time throws in that game, including huge plays on third down. He wasn't perfect, and I think a very good to great QB might have made some of the more routine plays, especially earlier on. But you're acting like he held them back, and he really didn't. 

He did well in KC but an average QB IMO makes those routine plays in the beginning. I just feel he is bottom 5 QB in the NFL... whose backup is right now so much worse. 

 

I also think the QB they drafted was a HUGE project and drafted way to high. Elways been a good GM/President. But like all he made some head scratching moves.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, JimJaime said:

He did well in KC but an average QB IMO makes those routine plays in the beginning. I just feel he is bottom 5 QB in the NFL... whose backup is right now so much worse. 

 

I also think the QB they drafted was a HUGE project and drafted way to high. Elways been a good GM/President. But like all he made some head scratching moves.

 

All of his "head scratching moves" seem to work out...

 

I don't think anyone expects Siemian to be a world beater, but he's been good enough. Can't blame him for last night's loss, at all. If Bennie Fowler goes down at the 1, they probably win.

 

And he's been more right than wrong on all of his QB decisions. I'm not second guessing him on Lynch. I also don't think Lynch was drafted too high. General consensus had him in the late first to second round. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

How many average QBs are putting up 368 yards and 3 TDs with no picks against the #5 scoring defense in the league? He also got sacked five times... 

 

Siemian made a bunch of big time throws in that game, including huge plays on third down. He wasn't perfect, and I think a very good to great QB might have made some of the more routine plays, especially earlier on. But you're acting like he held them back, and he really didn't. 

I agree.

 

An elite D does not give up a score and a 2 pt. conversion within 3 minutes. The middle of that D where Malik Jackson was there and Derek Wolfe was healthy is where the biggest difference is for that D, IMO. That is the price you pay for winning a SB. 

 

Plus, the Broncos last year were hungrier too, IMO. They did lose to teams like the Colts and Steelers on the road despite playing a decent game. So it happens to the best of them.

 

The Chiefs, IMO, are a slightly healthier team than last year going into the playoffs and that might make them go all the way to the AFCCG if they win that division from the Raiders.

[dw49]

2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

At the start of the season that was the Colin Kaepernick situation.  He was healthy and making a ton of money on his contract but was the backup for a while.

 

Right now the Tony Romo situation is like that too.  

 

Not unheard of

 

 

Kaepernick is very similar ... young guys that have ( or maybe will) way underperform their contract . Romo on the other hand is not a similar situation . He was hurt and the other guy stepped in and played lights out. Kinda like the Brady - Bledsoe situation ? 

[dw49]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's certainly not ideal...

 

And in both of those situations, the highly paid guy was/is dealing with injury. I doubt Osweiler gets benched, but if he does it would be ugly.

 

If he doesn't look to be at least an average NFL QB , I doubt Houston will want to pay him the 21 million he's due in 2018. So if he is what we see now , what do they do in 2017 ? It's the contract year for Savage .. do they see what he is ? Yeah , they can probably work that Osweiler deal down but he needs to play better than this for them to win. I would think he's safe for 2016 unless he plays poorly and Houston get eliminated with a game or 2 to play. Not likely but not impossible . Maybe he's just made a few too many bad decisions and will come around. He does have the arm talent...

[Superman]

23 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

If he doesn't look to be at least an average NFL QB , I doubt Houston will want to pay him the 21 million he's due in 2018. So if he is what we see now , what do they do in 2017 ? It's the contract year for Savage .. do they see what he is ? Yeah , they can probably work that Osweiler deal down but he needs to play better than this for them to win. I would think he's safe for 2016 unless he plays poorly and Houston get eliminated with a game or 2 to play. Not likely but not impossible . Maybe he's just made a few too many bad decisions and will come around. He does have the arm talent...

 

I don't see Savage coming into play, he hasn't gotten close to the field, and they've had a QB circus the last two seasons. They chose to sign Osweiler to a big contract without meeting him, rather than letting Savage have a shot. I assume that if they decide to move on from Osweiler, they'll be looking for a new guy.

 

His salary in 2017 appears to be fully guaranteed, so I don't see anything happening with his contract. 

[oldunclemark]

6 hours ago, JimJaime said:

The Broncos are fighting for their playoff life. If they had an AVEEAGE QB  they would be cruising to a division title. Also add into the fact teams have figured out their D and scoring a lot on them!

Nobody is figuring out Denver and Seattle's defense.......

The offense is giving up (or setting up foes) points

 

Denver does have an average QB. ..there's no cruising in the AFC West

[The Old Crow]

Elway is still an all time bum for me, but I have to say he has done a very good job as GM. Pretty savvy moves. 

[dw49]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't see Savage coming into play, he hasn't gotten close to the field, and they've had a QB circus the last two seasons. They chose to sign Osweiler to a big contract without meeting him, rather than letting Savage have a shot. I assume that if they decide to move on from Osweiler, they'll be looking for a new guy.

 

His salary in 2017 appears to be fully guaranteed, so I don't see anything happening with his contract. 

 

 

I had read that they liked Savage . I guess the question is would they like him enough to take a look ? If so , that would entail doing so while Osweiler was still with the team and under contract . Your saying no and I'm saying dunno. All is a moot point if Brock elevates his game.

[BloodyChamp]

2 things:

 

Lucky - his formula is working even though that same formula has blew up in every team who has tried it before's face! 

 

They're fighting for playoff life because that's what you do in the toughest division in football, not because what they're doing just isn't working. Trevor has played well. There's no need to keep running that into the ground for that other reason.

[Valpo2004]

22 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's certainly not ideal...

 

And in both of those situations, the highly paid guy was/is dealing with injury. I doubt Osweiler gets benched, but if he does it would be ugly.

 

Kaep was healthy at the beginning of the season.  Romo was dealing with injury but lost his job because Dak Prescott just keeps winning.  

[Yehoodi]

I would like to see some more time go by before I give an evaluation on Elway's GM skills.  I give him a lot of credit for convincing Manning to go to Denver although I do think it was a good fit for Manning so the team may have made the sale just as much as Elway.

 

He inherited a team that went 7-4 with Tim Tebow and so when you add Manning you are certainly going to improve on that record.  They preformed well last year but we must remember they beat two playoffs teams that had injuries, NE and Pitt.  Be nice to see if they can buttress last year's SB win with more regular season and playoff success moving forward.  

 

Time will tell if the Broncos are going to be a perennial contender or a single SB winner with middle of the road success thereafter.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

I would like to see some more time go by before I give an evaluation on Elway's GM skills.  I give him a lot of credit for convincing Manning to go to Denver although I do think it was a good fit for Manning so the team may have made the sale just as much as Elway.

 

He inherited a team that went 7-4 with Tim Tebow and so when you add Manning you are certainly going to improve on that record.  They preformed well last year but we must remember they beat two playoffs teams that had injuries, NE and Pitt.  Be nice to see if they can buttress last year's SB win with more regular season and playoff success moving forward.  

 

Time will tell if the Broncos are going to be a perennial contender or a single SB winner with middle of the road success thereafter.   

Without Manning there this season I cant see anyway they win the SB. Manning wasn't good in several games but when it counted against the Pats he stepped up and threw 2 TD's and didn't turn it over. He had the experience to beat a team like the Patriots and Belichick had some fear of Manning being on the other side. I cant even see them beating a team like the Chiefs either at this point. They have a Great Defense but a QB that hasn't had any starts in the past and is just thrown in as a starter isn't winning the SB. Off topic but that is why I am not 100% sold on the Cowboys winning it all because Dak is a rookie and no rookie has ever won the SB. The Cowboys have a better team than Denver though so Dak may make history?

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Kaep was healthy at the beginning of the season.

 

That's not what Chip Kelly said:

 

 

Quote

 Romo was dealing with injury but lost his job because Dak Prescott just keeps winning.  

 

Ok. If Romo wasn't hurt, Prescott would never have seen the field this year. 

 

Neither of those highly paid QBs was benched due to performance, is the point.

[Yehoodi]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Without Manning there this season I cant see anyway they win the SB. Manning wasn't good in several games but when it counted against the Pats he stepped up and threw 2 TD's and didn't turn it over. He had the experience to beat a team like the Patriots and Belichick had some fear of Manning being on the other side. I cant even see them beating a team like the Chiefs either at this point. They have a Great Defense but a QB that hasn't had any starts in the past and is just thrown in as a starter isn't winning the SB. Off topic but that is why I am not 100% sold on the Cowboys winning it all because Dak is a rookie and no rookie has ever won the SB. The Cowboys have a better team than Denver though so Dak may make history?

 

Yes it will be interesting to see how Denver does moving forward over the next few years.  And also, see how Elway does when he has to deal with roster turn over, rookies outpacing their contracts, etc.   This is his first year without Manning (save for 2011) and so it will be nice to see how well Elway does without Manning and and also trying to compete year in and year out against different teams coming at you.  Like KC last year, and this years Oak/KC.

 

So far the QB is getting by, but the Broncos have pulled a few games out of their behinds, although SNF was one that got away.  Last year they got some wins like this, be interesting to see if they can keep it up moving forward.   i think KC and Oakland will be too good for Denver this year, but time will tell, there is a lot of football left.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Yehoodi said:

 

Yes it will be interesting to see how Denver does moving forward over the next few years.  And also, see how Elway does when he has to deal with roster turn over, rookies outpacing their contracts, etc.   This is his first year without Manning (save for 2011) and so it will be nice to see how well Elway does without Manning and and also trying to compete year in and year out against different teams coming at you.  Like KC last year, and this years Oak/KC.

 

So far the QB is getting by, but the Broncos have pulled a few games out of their behinds, although SNF was one that got away.  Last year they got some wins like this, be interesting to see if they can keep it up moving forward.   i think KC and Oakland will be too good for Denver this year, but time will tell, there is a lot of football left.   

I think it's reasonable to think they could miss the Playoffs but a lot of that is the Division they play in. They may go 10-6 and not get in. Dolphins are shockingly 7-4 as well and are rolling.

[Superman]

18 hours ago, dw49 said:

I had read that they liked Savage . I guess the question is would they like him enough to take a look ? If so , that would entail doing so while Osweiler was still with the team and under contract . Your saying no and I'm saying dunno. All is a moot point if Brock elevates his game.

 

That could be true, but if you really liked your backup, would you give $37m to a QB you never even worked out and that your offensive-minded coach hadn't met? Their actions suggest they didn't like Savage all that much, IMO.

 

By way of contrast, the Broncos had game film on Osweiler, and wouldn't match Houston's offer. Instead, they felt comfortable moving forward with Siemian, traded up to ensure they got their guy in the draft, and brought in a cheap, "just in case" veteran who isn't even on the roster anymore.

 

Anybody is bench-able if they're playing bad enough, I guess. If Osweiler doesn't look good halfway through next season, then I could see them putting Savage in and seeing what he looks like. Just seems like a long shot, to me.

[dw49]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

That could be true, but if you really liked your backup, would you give $37m to a QB you never even worked out and that your offensive-minded coach hadn't met? Their actions suggest they didn't like Savage all that much, IMO.

 

By way of contrast, the Broncos had game film on Osweiler, and wouldn't match Houston's offer. Instead, they felt comfortable moving forward with Siemian, traded up to ensure they got their guy in the draft, and brought in a cheap, "just in case" veteran who isn't even on the roster anymore.

 

Anybody is bench-able if they're playing bad enough, I guess. If Osweiler doesn't look good halfway through next season, then I could see them putting Savage in and seeing what he looks like. Just seems like a long shot, to me.

 

No .. if I really liked my back up , I would not give a guy like Osweiler that contract. That said , if this guy shows no improvement in the last 6 games and God forbid if he loses a little confidence ( more media and fan criticism could cause this) and plays even worse ? What do they do then ? Draft a QB with their 1st round pick ? Just stick with Osweiler as he's going to count 19 mill minimum in 2017 ? Hope to find another FA QB in 2018 ? It's crazy bad if he busts out. I think this deal could really be a franchise killer for the Texans. It's favorable that after 2017 , they can just dump Brock but good chance they won't even have a decent replacement on the roster. That's why I was thinking they at least have to take a good look at Savage if they feel Osweiler was a mistake. Or they have to use a first in the 2017 draft ? 

[oldunclemark]

7 hours ago, Yehoodi said:

I would like to see some more time go by before I give an evaluation on Elway's GM skills.  I give him a lot of credit for convincing Manning to go to Denver although I do think it was a good fit for Manning so the team may have made the sale just as much as Elway.

 

He inherited a team that went 7-4 with Tim Tebow and so when you add Manning you are certainly going to improve on that record.  They preformed well last year but we must remember they beat two playoffs teams that had injuries, NE and Pitt.  Be nice to see if they can buttress last year's SB win with more regular season and playoff success moving forward.  

 

Time will tell if the Broncos are going to be a perennial contender or a single SB winner with middle of the road success thereafter.   

The team he inherited was 9-9......to say they were 7-4 with Tebow is serious cherry-picking.

Everybody has injuries.......Denver lost 6 defensive starters the year they lost to Seattle in the Super Bowl.

the GM  built that defense...everybody but Von Miller.....2 AFC champs in 4 years

If you're still waiting to evaluate Elway, its probably never going to happen

[oldunclemark]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think it's reasonable to think they could miss the Playoffs but a lot of that is the Division they play in. They may go 10-6 and not get in. Dolphins are shockingly 7-4 as well and are rolling.

There is a real chance Denver could go 10-6 and not get in.

They could go 11-5 and not get in if they lose to KC again and Miami (7-4) wins the final 5, which is very possible

[NewColtsFan]

 

When it's 5 straight years of great success including two Super Bowl appearances and one SB Championship it sure aint luck.       That's too much success for anything other than skill.

 

 

[Synthetic]

On 11/28/2016 at 11:59 AM, chad72 said:

 

What the Texans did not factor in is that if Osweiler was trained for another system, he is more likely to be valuable for that system than a new system. So, the $16 mil. per that John Elway was going to pay was for Brock to work within a system he knew enough about. However, the Texans were shooting in the dark because they had to make the offer and there is no such thing as a waiting period for a QB once free agency starts to work out a player, talk to him about his comfort level with your system etc. 

 

 

That right there, is on O'Brien for being a poor coach and not moving to adapt him to a new system. Every quarterback he has ran so far in the spread system at Houston, has sucked...

 

I don't think Osweiler is truly the problem. Brian Hoyer had that epic meltdown last year in O'Brien's system, and we've seen similar meltdowns with how Brock has faired in the system. 

 

If it weren't for Houston having a decent defense that has truly carried that team over the past few years, it would probably be more obvious that O'Brien is a poor coach. 

 

Quote

Good for Brock he cashed in but the Texans are left holding the bag. Siemian was the other QB already familiar with their system, so his production far exceeds what the Broncos expected. Just the fact that they are in position to play for a wild card is more than they could ask for, IMO.

 

I don't think Siemian is all that good, honestly. And like O'Brien, this probably has to do with coaching too. Kubiak has yet to make a decent passer nice Matt Schaub, and people forget, Schaub was pretty good before his injuries and when he turned into an INT machine. 

 

 

Denver being a wild card team is pretty disappointing since they are a SB champion. They currently have around a 56% chance of making it as a wild card, going by the ELO meter on FiveThirtyEight. If Oakland keeps winning with their suspect defense (really, Oakland's got a weak defense y'all...They look like a glass cannon right now) and if K.C. continues to win, the Broncos aren't making the playoffs. There is also the strange oddities this year like Miami and Baltimore and Pittsburgh could easily compete for a wildcard spot. 

 

 

 

As for John Elway as a GM, I think we need another year to truly judge him. Elway seems to know what he's doing so far, where other GM's have messed up with replacing coaches and free agency picks. 

 

If anyone is lucky, I think it's Kubiak. Kubiak will go down in history as one of the luckiest coaches to ever win a Super Bowl.  

Now that Manning is gone, everyone can see that his offense is just as bad as it was in Houston, and even last year, Manning had his worst statistical season in Kubiak's system. Thank his lucky stars he has Wade Phillips and an All Pro defense to bail them out, just like last year when they pretty much won nail biters all year long. 

 

 

 

[Yehoodi]

On 11/29/2016 at 8:06 PM, oldunclemark said:

The team he inherited was 9-9......to say they were 7-4 with Tebow is serious cherry-picking.

Everybody has injuries.......Denver lost 6 defensive starters the year they lost to Seattle in the Super Bowl.

the GM  built that defense...everybody but Von Miller.....2 AFC champs in 4 years

If you're still waiting to evaluate Elway, its probably never going to happen

 

I mentioned Tebow to show you how strong the team was, the other QB was Orton who was basically useless, i think he played like 10 games after leaving Denver.  So yes the team was a lot better than a standard 9-9 team with a decent QB.  Once you add Manning to the equation things will naturally improve.  That was my point.  

 

Yes they may have had injuries, but all teams have injuries and teams are healthy.  Indeed, in 2013 the Pats had most of its offensive weapons injured or not playing, last year Pitt was down to its 3rd string RB and did not have A. Brown (first time a team in the playoffs was down both its starting RB and best WR), not to mention the fact that Big Ben was hurt, and the Pats were the 2nd most injured team last year.  

 

So yes injuries are part of the sport, sometimes you have them, sometimes you opponents have them.   Sometimes you benefit from it sometimes the other guy does.

 

In the end, now that Manning is gone from the team, and the teams is starting to turnover its roster, lets see how the next few years go.

 

If you remember GM Ryan Grigson went 11-5 his first three years, won the Executive of the Year in 2012, and the colts went to a successive round of the playoffs in each of his first three years.  But i think both you and I would agree that a portion of colts fans may not have an opinion of him that some had of him back in 2012-2013.  

 

The Broncos have had a great run for the last 4 years, I just would like to see what the next few years bring.    

[oldunclemark]

I see what you mean..I misunderstood.....

 

The Broncos roster has turned over in all his years..

..this year's O-line has 4 new starters and I would guess that they'll have 2 oe 3 new O-linemen next year, too.

 

..and I would guess that Paxton Lynch will be the QB and they'll have new RBs.

He's always shuffling

[19colt]

I wonder if Elway will regret letting Adam Gase go in 5-10 years. It is early days in Miami but he is winning games. Yes, Kubiak is now a Superbowl winning coach but that had everything to do with the defense and the leadership of Kubiak/Manning and little (if anything) to do with Kubiak's offensive coaching. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 12/1/2016 at 7:13 PM, 19colt said:

I wonder if Elway will regret letting Adam Gase go in 5-10 years. It is early days in Miami but he is winning games. Yes, Kubiak is now a Superbowl winning coach but that had everything to do with the defense and the leadership of Kubiak/Manning and little (if anything) to do with Kubiak's offensive coaching. 

 

Maybe not Kubiak's offensive coaching,  but it had EVERYTHING to do with Kubiak's masterful handling of the TEAM.     And especially of Peyton Manning!       A lesser head coach would not have handled that as well.

 

Cubic gets full credit for winning that Super Bowl.     It would not have happened with the previous coach, John Fox,  or most any other current NFL coach.

 

[King Colt]

He is not only smart but very firm in his convictions, tough hombre.

[dw49]

On 12/1/2016 at 1:00 PM, Yehoodi said:

 

I mentioned Tebow to show you how strong the team was, the other QB was Orton who was basically useless, i think he played like 10 games after leaving Denver.  So yes the team was a lot better than a standard 9-9 team with a decent QB.  Once you add Manning to the equation things will naturally improve.  That was my point.  

 

Yes they may have had injuries, but all teams have injuries and teams are healthy.  Indeed, in 2013 the Pats had most of its offensive weapons injured or not playing, last year Pitt was down to its 3rd string RB and did not have A. Brown (first time a team in the playoffs was down both its starting RB and best WR), not to mention the fact that Big Ben was hurt, and the Pats were the 2nd most injured team last year.  

 

So yes injuries are part of the sport, sometimes you have them, sometimes you opponents have them.   Sometimes you benefit from it sometimes the other guy does.

 

In the end, now that Manning is gone from the team, and the teams is starting to turnover its roster, lets see how the next few years go.

 

If you remember GM Ryan Grigson went 11-5 his first three years, won the Executive of the Year in 2012, and the colts went to a successive round of the playoffs in each of his first three years.  But i think both you and I would agree that a portion of colts fans may not have an opinion of him that some had of him back in 2012-2013.  

 

The Broncos have had a great run for the last 4 years, I just would like to see what the next few years bring.    

 

Let's not give him credit for signing Manning. Considering where Denver was at that time , the risk reward overwhelming to sign him. Instead compare his success in free agent signings to what  Grigson has done over the years. Night and day... no ?

 

Looks to me he is over the top successful in the player he's brought in , the players he's retained and those he's let go.