What my eyes tell me....

[tikyle]

19 hours ago, Rally5 said:

I haven't checked stats but this is what I saw today.

 

7.  Our receivers coach needs to coach complete route running concepts and working back to the ball.  Talib should have never beaten Dorsett to that ball, people will see a pick and blame Luck for that one, I don't.

You have got to be kidding me?  Third and long.  Dorsett runs a route where he sits down in the zone.  He was WIDE OPEN.  Luck finds him late.  You cannot make that throw that late.  Period.  Denver was in zone and a defender will make his way closer to a wide open guy if you wait that long.  Even if Dorsett attacked the ball and made the catch it would have put him short of the 1st down.  That was on the QB and to blame it on the WR is just passing blame.  If it was man coverage and Talib was on his hip the entire route then yes, that would be on Dorsett for not attacking the ball.  But Dorsett ran a wonderful route and found a soft spot in the zone and was open.

 

Also I don't agree with your take on the defense.  Yes they gave up loads of yards and not many punts but they only gave up only one TD on defense.  They kept Denver to a bunch of FGs and one of which they missed.  For a banged up D that was a triumph.  They basically held the Broncos to less than the Panthers defense did.

 

This board will blame everyone and thing under the sun before it will ever turn blame to King Luck.  It's time to stop.  His big mistake took us out of contention for this game.  Even as good of a job as Denver was doing against our offense it was a 3 point game in the 4th quarter before that pick 6 with Luck has a horrendous day (grading on his scale).  The defense was keeping us in it (unlike the Lions game) and punting there instead of trying to force something would have had us go to the wire in this game.

[JPFolks]

8 hours ago, bababooey said:

Sorry, but I 100% blame the coaches on putting Reitz on an island with Miller during the possibly comeback drive. 

Well we don't know what the assignments were. The move was so devastatingly fast that the help may well have not had a chance to even touch him.  He went hard inside after setting out super wide, it's possible the help went to the outside and out of the play.  It was like a missile launch...

[Rally5]

9 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

what my eyes are telling me is that there are a lot of posters who don't usually post unless things are going badly with the team.

 

If that's a shot, I post throughout the season pros and cons, I don't post much during the off-season because I don't try to break down draft picks or free agency.  There's others that post a lot in that respect. Maybe you could post your rules for the message board use and we can debate the merits of your rules?

[Nostrils]

22 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Whoever is telling these guys how to tackle needs to be fired even though tackling is pretty simple

 

 

simple, huh?

[Rally5]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

You have got to be kidding me?  Third and long.  Dorsett runs a route where he sits down in the zone.  He was WIDE OPEN.  Luck finds him late.  You cannot make that throw that late.  Period.  Denver was in zone and a defender will make his way closer to a wide open guy if you wait that long.  Even if Dorsett attacked the ball and made the catch it would have put him short of the 1st down.  That was on the QB and to blame it on the WR is just passing blame.  If it was man coverage and Talib was on his hip the entire route then yes, that would be on Dorsett for not attacking the ball.  But Dorsett ran a wonderful route and found a soft spot in the zone and was open.

 

Also I don't agree with your take on the defense.  Yes they gave up loads of yards and not many punts but they only gave up only one TD on defense.  They kept Denver to a bunch of FGs and one of which they missed.  For a banged up D that was a triumph.  They basically held the Broncos to less than the Panthers defense did.

 

This board will blame everyone and thing under the sun before it will ever turn blame to King Luck.  It's time to stop.  His big mistake took us out of contention for this game.  Even as good of a job as Denver was doing against our offense it was a 3 point game in the 4th quarter before that pick 6 with Luck has a horrendous day (grading on his scale).  The defense was keeping us in it (unlike the Lions game) and punting there instead of trying to force something would have had us go to the wire in this game.

 

He ran a wonderful route short of the first down maker?  Then he didn't make a play for the ball.  That's a Dorsett issue, you can't just squat in the NFL and especially with Talib lurking.  If Andrew was late on the play that's on him, I haven't studied the play, it's what I saw on replay during the game. I think there's plenty of people critical of Luck on this board, including me when deserved. If you think the defense is playing really well, then you are certainly entitled to that opinion, I just disagree but I think when/if healthy we have potential.

[Rally5]

3 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

also what my eyes are telling me is that the Colts won't be facing a D this good the rest of the regular season.

 

They are on another level compared to the other teams.

 

That's true Peter, good take.

[AZColt11]

6 hours ago, Rally5 said:

He ran a wonderful route short of the first down maker?  Then he didn't make a play for the ball.  That's a Dorsett issue, you can't just squat in the NFL and especially with Talib lurking.  If Andrew was late on the play that's on him, I haven't studied the play, it's what I saw on replay during the game. I think there's plenty of people critical of Luck on this board, including me when deserved. If you think the defense is playing really well, then you are certainly entitled to that opinion, I just disagree but I think when/if healthy we have potential.

Would agree.  When I saw the replay I was like "Why didn't Dorsett break on the ball?  He was just standing there!".  Look, Luck is not infallible.  He certainly makes mistakes.  But he should be ALLOWED to make a mistake or two and his team still have a chance to win.  Unfortunately, he just isn't right now.  So when he makes one, it looks bigger than it is.  Simian threw a pick yesterday.  But he has the d that can make up for it.  Luck doesn't.  Is that all his fault?  That he doesn't have a defense that can bail him out?  Or a run game?  Or coaching?  Blaming Luck for why this team is losing is like blaming Christie Brinkley for Detroit being a hell-hole.  She's like one of the best things to come from it!

[Smoke317]

I can't remember the exact sequence of plays on the drive but the trouble started as soon as our possession began. Here we are with plenty of time left in the 4th. We had just put a hard nose drive together that ate up half the 3rd quarter and ended with a Turbin run for the touchdown and we start this drive with no Turbin or Gore. I believe Ferguson was in the game and we were looking to pass. So I think it kind of sent the mentality to the offense that we were in desperation and "needed" to score and soon...  We get a holding call that sets us back and before you know it we're in 3rd and 20 or so.  Luck definitely should have taken the check down or run the draw and we punt. But even better would have been the coaches starting this drive with Turbin and us looking to put another methodical ball control drive together. Turbin was hyped after the TD.  He had to be.  I think he would have broken off a nice run and then our drive is off and rolling. And then the Denver D would have had to respect our run game a little more. Sometimes I think our coaches are too set in their ways and not bold enough to play the guys that are hot and sit their favorites down. Or make in game adjustments based off of who's got the hot hand. As for the play, Dorsett ran a bad route. He stopped his route in no man's land trying to push for the first down. You either run that a few yards shorter and hope to break tackles or just punt or you have to threaten Talib on that and make him back pedal or turn. I would have rather they sent him on a go route. He'll learn and get better. We definitely need to get him more involved in our offense. But Luck still should have never made that throw. So in essence that entire possession was a cluster you know what of epic proportions from beginning to end. And everyone deserved some blame on that one from the HC, OC, whoever held, Luck and Dorsett...

[throwing BBZ]

On 9/19/2016 at 10:02 AM, JPFolks said:

Well, Simms disagreed and said it was not Luck's fault... he said it was mostly just an outstanding play by the CB.  The guy's been doing that his whole career and tied Deon Sanders among others for 4th all time pick 6's.

 

 I have great respect for Simms. BUT, he routinely gives the 1st guys number he can read or who has a cool name credit for a tackle. And he loves QB`s, including Luck.
The guy is not a very good in game analyst, but a Nice Guy!

[Cynjin]

19 hours ago, tikyle said:

You have got to be kidding me?  Third and long.  Dorsett runs a route where he sits down in the zone.  He was WIDE OPEN.  Luck finds him late.  You cannot make that throw that late.  Period.  Denver was in zone and a defender will make his way closer to a wide open guy if you wait that long.  Even if Dorsett attacked the ball and made the catch it would have put him short of the 1st down.  That was on the QB and to blame it on the WR is just passing blame.  If it was man coverage and Talib was on his hip the entire route then yes, that would be on Dorsett for not attacking the ball.  But Dorsett ran a wonderful route and found a soft spot in the zone and was open.

 

Also I don't agree with your take on the defense.  Yes they gave up loads of yards and not many punts but they only gave up only one TD on defense.  They kept Denver to a bunch of FGs and one of which they missed.  For a banged up D that was a triumph.  They basically held the Broncos to less than the Panthers defense did.

 

This board will blame everyone and thing under the sun before it will ever turn blame to King Luck.  It's time to stop.  His big mistake took us out of contention for this game.  Even as good of a job as Denver was doing against our offense it was a 3 point game in the 4th quarter before that pick 6 with Luck has a horrendous day (grading on his scale).  The defense was keeping us in it (unlike the Lions game) and punting there instead of trying to force something would have had us go to the wire in this game.

 

It was a bad throw by Luck, but it was also a very poor route run by Dorsett.  The combination allowed Talib to make the play, which was a good read by him.

[tikyle]

3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

It was a bad throw by Luck, but it was also a very poor route run by Dorsett.  The combination allowed Talib to make the play, which was a good read by him.

Please elaborate on how it was a very poor route. 

 

This is what I saw: He ran a route to the first down marker and squatted in a hole in the zone.  If you check out the replay again you will see when Dorsett turns around and stops Talib is still back pedaling in his zone and is about 5+ yards away from Dorsett.  He stood there for a full 2+ seconds while Andrew was evading the rush and that's when Talib started to make his break.  That pass was too far to make that late.  If it was a 5 or even maybe a 10 yard route Talib wouldn't have gotten there before the ball. 

[Cynjin]

28 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Please elaborate on how it was a very poor route. 

 

This is what I saw: He ran a route to the first down marker and squatted in a hole in the zone.  If you check out the replay again you will see when Dorsett turns around and stops Talib is still back pedaling in his zone and is about 5+ yards away from Dorsett.  He stood there for a full 2+ seconds while Andrew was evading the rush and that's when Talib started to make his break.  That pass was too far to make that late.  If it was a 5 or even maybe a 10 yard route Talib wouldn't have gotten there before the ball. 

 

It was poor because of the context of the coverage Talib was in.  As soon as Dorsett turned Talib jumped on the route, not 2+ seconds later.  If a WR is going to run that route against that zone coverage he has to come back hard in order to avoid what happened, Dorsett did not do that.  If Talib had been playing man to man the route Dorsett ran probably would have been fine.  Luck could have thrown the ball before the WR turned on the route and this also, probably, would have avoided what happened.

 

Edit:. I could be mistaken, I would have to go back and look, but I also think that Talib had safety help over the top.  If that is the case then Talib did not have to worry about getting beat deep.

[tikyle]

50 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

It was poor because of the context of the coverage Talib was in.  As soon as Dorsett turned Talib jumped on the route, not 2+ seconds later.  If a WR is going to run that route against that zone coverage he has to come back hard in order to avoid what happened, Dorsett did not do that.  If Talib had been playing man to man the route Dorsett ran probably would have been fine.  Luck could have thrown the ball before the WR turned on the route and this also, probably, would have avoided what happened.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/18/aqib-talib-pick-six-andrew-luck/#share=true&playerID=912875e00e2f12a0c4a72ee1e0.11hrrvnxxgcho15mv6dsnvd13y&time=45&vid=64wi240h170416bmsiuydfo18

Please re-watch the play. 

 

I was mistaken on the 2+ seconds.  But Dorsett actually did come back to the ball a full 5 yards.  You can't make that throw from that distance late.  If you rewatch the play pause when Dorsett starts to slow down to turn.  That's when the ball should be thrown.  Except it was thrown more than a second later.  Allowing Talib to stop his backpedal and then cover a whopping 8 yards.  Talib stops his back pedal on the 54 yard line and Dorset turns around at the 51 yard line.  The ball is intercepted at the 46 yard line and Talib was arm in arm with Dorsett at the time.  Dorsett came back 4-5 yards and Talib 8 yards for the ball.  Again how was that a bad route?

 

Even if you take away the interception, due to the ball being late and where it was it wouldn't have been a first down.  If the ball was thrown on time to Dorsett it's a first.  Where he ended up trying to catch it was almost a full 5 yards short at 3rd and 15.

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, tikyle said:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/18/aqib-talib-pick-six-andrew-luck/#share=true&playerID=912875e00e2f12a0c4a72ee1e0.11hrrvnxxgcho15mv6dsnvd13y&time=45&vid=64wi240h170416bmsiuydfo18

Please re-watch the play. 

 

I was mistaken on the 2+ seconds.  But Dorsett actually did come back to the ball a full 5 yards.  You can't make that throw from that distance late.  If you rewatch the play pause when Dorsett starts to slow down to turn.  That's when the ball should be thrown.  Except it was thrown more than a second later.  Allowing Talib to stop his backpedal and then cover a whopping 8 yards.  Talib stops his back pedal on the 54 yard line and Dorset turns around at the 51 yard line.  The ball is intercepted at the 46 yard line and Talib was arm in arm with Dorsett at the time.  Dorsett came back 4-5 yards and Talib 8 yards for the ball.  Again how was that a bad route?

 

Even if you take away the interception, due to the ball being late and where it was it wouldn't have been a first down.  If the ball was thrown on time to Dorsett it's a first.  Where he ended up trying to catch it was almost a full 5 yards short at 3rd and 15.

 

It was a bad read and throw by Luck.

[tikyle]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

It was a bad read and throw by Luck.

I think it was a good read, just late throw by Luck.  If the ball is in the air while Dorsett is slowing to turn around that's a first down.

[chad72]

20 minutes ago, tikyle said:

I think it was a good read, just late throw by Luck.  If the ball is in the air while Dorsett is slowing to turn around that's a first down.

 

Doyle was open underneath, Luck could have taken the checkdown and given Doyle a chance to get some YAC, the score was still 13-16, we could have punted with 13 plus minutes left in the 4th qtr. and taken our chances.

 

http://prod.www.broncos.clubs.nfl.com/multimedia/videos/Aqib-Talib-snags-pick-6-off-Luck/ce20e4bd-fb4f-44b0-999f-f2257298cfee

 

 

 

[Rally5]

1 hour ago, tikyle said:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/18/aqib-talib-pick-six-andrew-luck/#share=true&playerID=912875e00e2f12a0c4a72ee1e0.11hrrvnxxgcho15mv6dsnvd13y&time=45&vid=64wi240h170416bmsiuydfo18

Please re-watch the play. 

 

I was mistaken on the 2+ seconds.  But Dorsett actually did come back to the ball a full 5 yards.  You can't make that throw from that distance late.  If you rewatch the play pause when Dorsett starts to slow down to turn.  That's when the ball should be thrown.  Except it was thrown more than a second later.  Allowing Talib to stop his backpedal and then cover a whopping 8 yards.  Talib stops his back pedal on the 54 yard line and Dorset turns around at the 51 yard line.  The ball is intercepted at the 46 yard line and Talib was arm in arm with Dorsett at the time.  Dorsett came back 4-5 yards and Talib 8 yards for the ball.  Again how was that a bad route?

 

Even if you take away the interception, due to the ball being late and where it was it wouldn't have been a first down.  If the ball was thrown on time to Dorsett it's a first.  Where he ended up trying to catch it was almost a full 5 yards short at 3rd and 15.

 

Thanks for sending the link, the add was driving me bonkers so I went to the NFL replay. I can't find a view where Dorsett gets beyond the 49 and as Talib runs through him as he falls on the 46.  He simply needs to win that fight for the ball or get there first in my opinion.  What's more is watch TY Hilton on the play....it goes to the overall comment I made about coaching receivers, he doesn't pursue the pick in as far as I can tell.   Chester Rogers shows up at the end of the play from the other side of the field.  I know we've picked this one play apart ad nauseam and that was never my intent.  I just don't see the attention to detail and max effort we saw in previous regimes and it was an issue last year as well.  I wouldn't mind seeing Reggie as part of the coaching staff of WR's even if in an advisorory role.  This is not to absolve Andrew from being late on the throw or the oline from not giving him a clean pocket.  It's just one of many areas where we lack attention to detail or excellence in execution in my opinion.  I know there are many that will disagree, it's just what I see....Go Colts!

[Jim H.]

22 hours ago, tikyle said:

You have got to be kidding me?  Third and long.  Dorsett runs a route where he sits down in the zone.  He was WIDE OPEN.  Luck finds him late.  You cannot make that throw that late.  Period.  Denver was in zone and a defender will make his way closer to a wide open guy if you wait that long.  Even if Dorsett attacked the ball and made the catch it would have put him short of the 1st down.  That was on the QB and to blame it on the WR is just passing blame.  If it was man coverage and Talib was on his hip the entire route then yes, that would be on Dorsett for not attacking the ball.  But Dorsett ran a wonderful route and found a soft spot in the zone and was open.

 

Also I don't agree with your take on the defense.  Yes they gave up loads of yards and not many punts but they only gave up only one TD on defense.  They kept Denver to a bunch of FGs and one of which they missed.  For a banged up D that was a triumph.  They basically held the Broncos to less than the Panthers defense did.

 

This board will blame everyone and thing under the sun before it will ever turn blame to King Luck.  It's time to stop.  His big mistake took us out of contention for this game.  Even as good of a job as Denver was doing against our offense it was a 3 point game in the 4th quarter before that pick 6 with Luck has a horrendous day (grading on his scale).  The defense was keeping us in it (unlike the Lions game) and punting there instead of trying to force something would have had us go to the wire in this game.

"King Luck?"  Hmmm.  A little salty, are we?

:^)

[tikyle]

19 minutes ago, Jim H. said:

"King Luck?"  Hmmm.  A little salty, are we?

:^)

Not salty.  Just seems no one on the board has the "guts" to say when the 'King' makes a mistake.  He has not accomplished enough for the Colts to just have blind zero criticism faith in him.

[aaron11]

18 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Not salty.  Just seems no one on the board has the "guts" to say when the 'King' makes a mistake.  He has not accomplished enough for the Colts to just have blind zero criticism faith in him.

he gets criticized plenty

 

he is a streaky player though.  he was the highest rated QB in the league week one going by pff rating, QB rating, and just plain raw stats

 

what other option do we have but to run with his highs and lows?

 

 

 

 

[BCoop]

24 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Not salty.  Just seems no one on the board has the "guts" to say when the 'King' makes a mistake.  He has not accomplished enough for the Colts to just have blind zero criticism faith in him.

 

It has nothing to do with guts. Some of us just realize that no QB on the planet is going to be perfect, especially against that defense. There's just no need to point out every single mistake that Andrew makes when there are much bigger issues to address.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure what people expected on the road against Denver. Their last 5 games (this year and playoffs last year), opposing QB's have thrown for a 52% completion percentage, 3 TD's, and 5 interceptions. That may be a small sample size, but that sample includes Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck, and Cam Newton twice. At some point, you just have to accept the Colts were beaten by a better team on the road.

 

I'm not worried about Andrew. What I am worried about is getting our guys healthy, figuring out our tackling issues, and continuing to develop this O-line so we can more consistently move the ball down the field.