Barry sanders vs calvin johnson

[CR91]

It's rare to see two tremendous players retire early in their careers. It's even more rare when it happens to the same franchise (poor lions). Which loss do you think lion fans are more hurt by

[jvan1973]

Living in northern indiana I have quite a few friends who are lions fans.  They universally say Barry and it isn't close

[2006Coltsbestever]

Barry by a mile

[-JJ-]

Barry- he was too god to be on a poor team but he still performed

[2006Coltsbestever]

Barry is a Top 4 RB of all-time, the others being Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Emmitt Smith. Our Eric Dickerson Is in that discussion as well. Calvin Johnson isn't even a Top 10 WR of all-time.  

[BOTT]

21 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Barry is a Top 4 RB of all-time, the others being Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Emmitt Smith. Our Eric Dickerson Is in that discussion as well. Calvin Johnson isn't even a Top 10 WR of all-time.  

Name 10 receivers you would take over Calvin Johnson if you were starting a team.

[ReMeDy]

Barry Sanders. Any player who inspires so much fear in a defense that their coaching staff has their defense try to catch chickens wins by a landslide:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/301203-a-tribute-to-barry-sanders-what-made-him-great

 

Quote

 

John Teerlinck, the Minnesota Vikings defensive line coach in 1994, said that the only way they could figure out how to simulate his (Barry's) abilities during their practices was to have the defensive linemen chase chickens around the field.

That is what he did to opposing defenses.

What Barry did with a football was different than anything the world had seen before.

He didn’t hit holes—he created them.

He didn’t run through defenses—he went around them.

And just when you thought you had him, suddenly, he was gone.

 

^ Yes, Barry is so good he has his own Chuck Norris comments.

[NFLfan]

Barry Sanders. When he retired, it seemed to be a devastating loss for the Lions. No one could replace Barry. He was special.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BOTT said:

Name 10 receivers you would take over Calvin Johnson if you were starting a team.

Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Art Monk, Steve Largent, Andre Reed, and I would honestly take Reggie over him as well. I only named 9 so maybe CJ comes in at 10. I may be forgetting a couple of WR's because it's been a while since I have done a greatest WR list. Now I do think CJ is a GREAT WR and will make the HOFame but he isn't first ballot IMO like Barry was.

[BOTT]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Art Monk, Steve Largent, Andre Reed, and I would honestly take Reggie over him as well. I only named 9 so maybe CJ comes in at 10. I may be forgetting a couple of WR's because it's been a while since I have done a greatest WR list. Now I do think CJ is a GREAT WR and will make the HOFame but he isn't first ballot IMO like Barry was.

No offense, but that list is ridiculous.

 

Monk, Largent and Reed couldnt carry Calvin's jock on their best day.  

 

And he he is a first ballot HOF'er IMO.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

No offense, but that list is ridiculous.

 

Monk, Largent and Reed couldnt carry Calvin's jock on their best day.  

Where do you rank CJ? No offense taken but those 3 WR's were awesome in their day. I will say this CJ isn't Top 5, no way is he better than Rice, Irvin, Marvin, Moss, or Carter and Barry is arguably the best RB of all-time.

[NFLfan]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, Cris Carter, Art Monk, Steve Largent, Andre Reed, and I would honestly take Reggie over him as well. I only named 9 so maybe CJ comes in at 10. I may be forgetting a couple of WR's because it's been a while since I have done a greatest WR list. Now I do think CJ is a GREAT WR and will make the HOFame but he isn't first ballot IMO like Barry was.

 

I don't think Reed, Monk or Wayne was a better WR than Calvin Johnson. I think what is important to note was that when Barry retired he was the #1 or #2 running back in the league. I don't think Megatron was the top or second best WR at the time of his retirement. It is easier to replace him than to replace Barry. JMO.

[BOTT]

7 minutes ago, BOTT said:

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Where do you rank CJ? No offense taken but those 3 WR's were awesome in their day. I will say this CJ isn't Top 5, no way is he better than Rice, Irvin, Marvin, Moss, or Carter and Barry is arguably the best RB of all-time.

 

Well, he's better than anyone on your list except for Rice and maybe Moss.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

I don't think Reed, Monk or Wayne was a better WR than Calvin Johnson. I think what is important to note was that when Barry retired he was the #1 or #2 running back in the league. I don't think Megatron was the top or second best WR at the time of his retirement. It is easier to replace him than to replace Barry. JMO.

Monk was on SB teams and had exceptional hands. He may be one of the most under appreciated WR's of all-time. I do see an argument for CJ being better than the guys you and Bott listed but Reggie's longevity has to be factored in these discussions too. I would rather have Reggie than CJ, he didn't have CJ's size but his hands were just as great and his route running was better.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Well, he's better than anyone on your list except for Rice and maybe Moss.

I respect your opinion but he isn't better than Irvin or Marvin or Carter IMO. Irvin doesn't have eye popping all-time stats because he had to retire early due to a neck injury but to me Irvin is arguably 1b, barely behind Rice. What Irvin brought to the Cowboys was unreal.

[NFLfan]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Monk was on SB teams and had exceptional hands. He may be one of the most under appreciated WR's of all-time. I do see an argument for CJ being better than the guys you and Bott listed but Reggie's longevity has to be factored in these discussions too. I would rather have Reggie than CJ, he didn't have CJ's size but his hands were just as great and his route running was better.

 

You are such a homer. Lol. I never thought Reggie was the best WR in the league. Calvin Johnson was the best for a few years there. 

 

Note: Just because I wrote that Reggie was not the best does not make me a Colts hater.  You guys seem to conclude that people hate the Colts.  I think Marvin is one of the best.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

You are such a homer. Lol. I never thought Reggie was the best WR in the league. Calvin Johnson was the best for a few years there. 

 

Note: Just because I wrote that Reggie was not the best does not make me a Colts hater.  You guys seem to conclude that people hate the Colts.  I think Marvin is one of the best.   

When did I say you hate the Colts? I have never thought that. When I do lists I am not a homer either, otherwise I would have Michael Irvin at 1000  and I would take him over anyone except Rice.

[BOTT]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I respect your opinion but he isn't better than Irvin or Marvin or Carter IMO. Irvin doesn't have eye popping all-time stats because he had to retire early due to a neck injury but to me Irvin is arguably 1b, barely behind Rice. What Irvin brought to the Cowboys was unreal.

i thought Irvin should have been first ballot....he was great.  I'm just shocked at your view of Calvin Johnson....guy was a freak.

[southwest1]

32 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Barry Sanders. When he retired, it seemed to be a devastating loss for the Lions. No one could replace Barry. He was special.

I agree 100% with this assessment. Barry was just so fluid in his change of direction movement that it was like a seamless & almost effortless like transition. I've never seen anything else like it. 

 

I was always surprised that Barry didn't break more LB & DB ankles trying to slow him down. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, BOTT said:

i thought Irvin should have been first ballot....he was great.  I'm just shocked at your view of Calvin Johnson....guy was a freak.

I think CJ is awesome. Maybe my Post came off wrong when I said he isn't even Top 10. He is a freak but after watching Football for a long time I have seen around 10 WR's just is Great if not better than him. If someone had him in their Top 5 it wouldn't bother me because he is Great.

[NFLfan]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When did I say you hate the Colts? I have never thought that. When I do lists I am not a homer either, otherwise I would have Michael Irvin at 1000  and I would take him over anyone except Rice.

 

You never said that about me but you have said that about the media and people from the East Coast. Don't worry about it -- that's a subject for another thread in the Colts section. 

 

Anyway, my main point was that Barry was a bigger loss than CJ, but CJ is a great player.

[NorthernBlue]

Just to put in perspective how great Barry Sanders was. His WORST season statistically (in terms of rushing yards) was in 1993 when he rushed for 1115 yards. Oh and that was cause he missed 5 games. The last time the colts had a guy rush for more than 1115 yards was Edge in 2005, and it took him 360 attempts (it took Barry just 243). Barry played just 10 seasons in the league yet he was just 3000 yards away from having the most yards all time. The leader, Emmitt Smith played in 15 seasons, and was on one of the greatest Cowboys teams ever (no disrespect to Emmitt, he was amazing too)

 

Whilst I love CJ (dude's been on my fantasy team for like 4 seasons now), I still think Barry leaving had a bigger impact. There will never be another player quite like Barry Sanders

[southwest1]

39 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Well, he's better than anyone on your list except for Rice and maybe Moss.

I know this is a little off topic, but I agree with you BOTT, Randy never gets enough love & props for his 1998 rookie year with Minnesota under Dennis Green & his 2007 NE Patriots reclamation project season after his dismal stint in the Black Hole. 

 

Randy was just unstoppable in those years I mentioned. He was leaps & bounds better than CJ & the man could go up & catch anything. Man, he was so exciting to watch & so darn smart. He knew just how to neutralize what defensive coordinators tried to do to him in those 2 seasons. It blew me away. 

 

I knew Randy could be a head case at times, but I always liked him as a person & I felt so bad for him when he got stuck with Brad Childress. Denny Green & Bill Belichick knew what they were doing on the sidelines, but Brad....Lord have mercy son...I'd crack up too. LOL! 

[BOTT]

3 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I know this is a little off topic, but I agree with you BOTT, Randy never gets enough love & props for his 1998 rookie year with Minnesota under Dennis Green & his 2007 NE Patriots reclamation project season after his dismal stint in the Black Hole. 

 

Randy was just unstoppable in those years I mentioned. He was leaps & bounds better than CJ & the man could go up & catch anything. Man, he was so exciting to watch & so darn smart. He knew just how to neutralize what defensive coordinators tried to do to him in those 2 seasons. It blew me away. 

If Moss had the mental makeup of a Micheal Irvin (minus the blow and hookers) he probably would have been the greatest ever.....maybe by a landslide.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, BOTT said:

If Moss had the mental makeup of a Micheal Irvin (minus the blow and hookers) he probably would have been the greatest ever.....maybe by a landslide.

Amazing that Irvin could party like that and still be Great!

[southwest1]

28 minutes ago, BOTT said:

If Moss had the mental makeup of a Micheal Irvin (minus the blow and hookers) he probably would have been the greatest ever.....maybe by a landslide.

Beautifully stated BOTT. Randy does analyst work on FOX Sports 1, FS1, I should watch Moss sometime & see how well he breaks down WR routes. I imagine he'd be superb at it. 

 

Yeah, being the Cowboy hater that I am, it pains me to say that #88 was a clutch WR who backed up his smack talk with 3 rings. I owe Michael that much. I wanna smack his big mouth as an analyst sometimes though. I can't lie. 

 

Yet another reason ESPN always ticks me off: They always act like this is the year that they will win it all since 1995 & it never happens.  I think Jerry Jones gives all pundits on their network money under the table to blow smoke up the owner's backside. I firmly believe that too. 

[wig]

Calvin was one of the best ever when he was at his best but that was only a few years. Barry had a far and away better career. 

[southwest1]

37 minutes ago, BOTT said:

If Moss had the mental makeup of a Micheal Irvin (minus the blow and hookers) he probably would have been the greatest ever.....maybe by a landslide.

That would be a great title for an athlete's memoirs wouldn't it? "Blow, hookers, & learning how to tarnish the shield & survive"...Just Kidding! 

 

I'd glance thru that book just on the title alone. Instability & chaos always makes for a best seller right? 

 

Sounds like a Warren Sapp autobiography...Blow, hookers, & bankruptcy...Okay, that was a tad bit harsh. I'll stop now. 

[will426]

Lol as a physical specimen and athlete he ranks at the top but constituency psh id take Reggie over him  he's not hof material 

[BOTT]

9 minutes ago, will426 said:

Lol as a physical specimen and athlete he ranks at the top but constituency psh id take Reggie over him  he's not hof material 

I too was laughing out loud after reading your post.

[will426]

13 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I too was laughing out loud after reading your post.

 after I read it over I see why 

[ColtRider]

Lions fans are hurt far more by Barry Sanders retiring early than Calvin Johnson. Sanders made Detroit a playoff contender year in & out. The guy was phenomenal. Only in the league 10 seasons. Incredible. 

 

By the way -- Swann, Alworth, Biletnikoff, Warfield, C. Branch, Maynard, S. Smith, Fitzgerald, Rice, Moss, Irvin, Berry. Oh no, that's 12, not 10, better than Calvin IMO. 

 

By the double way -- Nothing wrong with being a homer by fanaticism.

 

[BOTT]

43 minutes ago, will426 said:

 

[BOTT]

7 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

Lions fans are hurt far more by Barry Sanders retiring early than Calvin Johnson. Sanders made Detroit a playoff contender year in & out. The guy was phenomenal. Only in the league 10 seasons. Incredible. 

 

By the way -- Swann, Alworth, Biletnikoff, Warfield, C. Branch, Maynard, S. Smith, Fitzgerald, Rice, Moss, Irvin, Berry. Oops, that's 12 not 10 better than Calvin IMO. 

 

By the double way -- Nothing wrong with being a homer by fanaticism.

 

boy, the bullshipp is getting deep in here.

[ColtRider]

3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

boy, the bullshipp is getting deep in here.

 

 I have neither the time or inclination. 

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

 

 I have neither the time or inclination. 

Praise Jesus 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I agree 100% with this assessment. Barry was just so fluid in his change of direction movement that it was like a seamless & almost effortless like transition. I've never seen anything else like it. 

 

I was always surprised that Barry didn't break more LB & DB ankles trying to slow him down. 

Barry had two speeds. There he is and there he goes. I seen him play at the RCA dome one time and the Colts done a good job of bottling him in in the first half. The second half he smoked the Colts. I don't remember the exact numbers but I do remember thinking he was second only to Sweetness. If Barry would have played 3 or 4 more years he would hold the rushing title IMO. Just imagine what he would have been had he had an offensive line and the blocking that Emmitt had?

[southwest1]

55 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Barry had two speeds. There he is and there he goes. I seen him play at the RCA dome one time and the Colts done a good job of bottling him in in the first half. The second half he smoked the Colts. I don't remember the exact numbers but I do remember thinking he was second only to Sweetness. If Barry would have played 3 or 4 more years he would hold the rushing title IMO. Just imagine what he would have been had he had an offensive line and the blocking that Emmitt had?

Fantastic post CC1! Exactly, had Barry not retired so abruptly so unexpectedly, there's no way Emmitt Smith would have surpassed him as a HOF RB. I know right? If Sanders had a great offensive line in front of him, holy cow....He could have multiple SB rings too. 

[Gavin]

Sanders

[bayone]

10 hours ago, CR91 said:

It's rare to see two tremendous players retire early in their careers. It's even more rare when it happens to the same franchise (poor lions). Which loss do you think lion fans are more hurt by

 

10 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Living in northern indiana I have quite a few friends who are lions fans.  They universally say Barry and it isn't close

 

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Barry by a mile

 

9 hours ago, -JJ- said:

Barry- he was too god to be on a poor team but he still performed

 

Living between the current Lion Stadium in Detroit and the old Pontiac silver dome where they last played I assure u its Barry

 

Barry was the first to walk away so was far more of a shock, now they say CJ is pulling a sanders and basically complain but its not the same thing . the difference in feelings , well Its like  the length that Secretariat won in the Belmont over 2nd place,  still an incredible margin & record

 

Barry was the hope & Face of the Franchise Back then

 

Seeing him was truly remarkable, the OL used to say they never really knew how to block for him as once the play started he could just run in any & all directions as he saw best