colts and dwayne allen discussing contract

[JPFolks]

6 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Fleener is a much better blocker than Jimmy Graham. 

 

For those that think Fleener is a terrible blocker, go back and re watch the thursday game this past year against Houston. A big reason we shut JJ watt down was because of Fleener. Just saying... 

You mean our Tackle along with some help from Fleener on a double team did the job right? One game versus 3 15/16ths years?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

19 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Agreed. 

 

He runs good routes. He's fast. He's improved as a blocker. He actually stays on the field unlike Allen. His main problem is he's not that good at breaking tackles. I see nothing to hate him for. He may never be an elite TE but he's a good TE. 

His inability to break tackles is basically his only flaw. I don't particularly remember Dallas Clark breaking a ton of tackles either (or Dwayne Allen for that matter), but there's no narrative amongst Colts fans about it, for whatever reason.

[JPFolks]

On 2/27/2016 at 4:24 PM, SupermanLuck12 said:

I think both Fleener and Allen will be back with us next year. I think the Colts value both and see them both as the future of this organization.

 

Build an offensive line and get another stud RB and this offense can be deadly.

I just hope that if by some miracle Ezekiel is still on the table when we pick, we do so.  I want O-line and D just like everyone else, but we likely won't pick this high again for a long time and likely won't find the all around talent of Ezekiel later in the draft.  The analysts have all agreed and many have him as a top 10 pick, but think he may fall to the Jets who are below us.  I hope we don't pass him by.  His blocking was 100% perfect last year, not many blockers of any position can ever say that.  He takes pride in it.  

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

No, you don't and even if you did, that would only make 1 drop. But, I'm pretty sure a wide open drop would be considered a drop.

Bull crap I don't. I'm sitting right in front of it as we speak, tell me how to upload a cell phone video on here and I'll prove it.

 

 

Also,

 

Bleacher report and PFT both have him listed at 2 drops and Fleener at 3. So I guess i was still wrong but that's pretty much a wash

[richard pallo]

JPFolks, see my post on;  WHAT IF we drafted ZEKE.  ZEKE could be our 3rd. triplet.  We need to try and get him.   He's perfect for us.  I agree with everything you said about him.

[richard pallo]

JPFolks, I meant  see my recent post today.  I posted earlier in the thread as well. 

[BOTT]

On February 28, 2016 at 9:05 PM, SP_21 said:

Honestly Allen should go somewhere where he will have a larger role in the offense. He should be used like Jason Witten. Roughly 50/50 blocking and running routes. 

 

Allen has the potential to be one of the best all around TEs in the league. Whether he stays or goes somewhere else I know he'll surprise a lot of people on this forum

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

Luck is not even close to being as good as Manning was at making other players around him better than they are.  That's not a knock on Luck either...4 years into his career, Manning wasn't either.  Manning was in year 12 I think when he limped the Colts into the playoffs with Blair White as a starter.

I agree, but that wasn't really my point.  People on this forum were foolish enough to compare Whites first vs that of Reggie.  To the point, you can't just compare numbers and believe that makes two players equal.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

His inability to break tackles is basically his only flaw. I don't particularly remember Dallas Clark breaking a ton of tackles either (or Dwayne Allen for that matter), but there's no narrative amongst Colts fans about it, for whatever reason.

It's not really about breaking tackles.  Fleener's lacks any kind of quickness to get any significant YAC.....and it's the same reason he can't break a tackle.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 2/29/2016 at 7:36 AM, Jason_S said:

 

Luck is not even close to being as good as Manning was at making other players around him better than they are.  That's not a knock on Luck either...4 years into his career, Manning wasn't either.  Manning was in year 12 I think when he limped the Colts into the playoffs with Blair White as a starter.

 

I don't totally disagree, but Luck did pretty well in his second season with Griff Whalen, DaRick Rodgers, and Lavon Brazill. Of course TY as well, but Luck got all those guys involved, won a home playoff game vs KC, and then were even competitive vs NE until the middle of the 4th quarter of that divisional game. Not a bad job by a second year QB.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I don't totally disagree, but Luck did pretty well in his second season with Griff Whalen, DaRick Rodgers, and Lavon Brazill. Of course TY as well, but Luck got all those guys involved, won a home playoff game vs KC, and then were even competitive vs NE until the middle of the 4th quarter of that divisional game. Not a bad job by a second year QB.

Through 4 seasons, Andrew has had the better career compared to Peyton and I love Peyton 3rd mostest - sarcasm out of anyone in here. It took Peyton 9 seasons to win a SB but once he won 1, his Playoff record got better and so did his intelligence. Since the 2006 Season Peyton has a 11-7 Playoff record with 2 Rings. That came from year 9-17.

[ColtsLegacy]

21 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

What's the point of that stat then if it's not an attempt to imply that Fleener is a bottom-tier TE?

 

I think the point of the stat is to show that 47 tight ends caught a higher percentage of their targets. That doesn't equal 47th best tight end but it may imply he's not as reliable as many around here believe (although, he may have just had a lot of off target targets/forced targets).

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

I think the point of the stat is to show that 47 tight ends caught a higher percentage of their targets. That doesn't equal 47th best tight end but it may imply he's not as reliable as many around here believe (although, he may have just had a lot of off target targets/forced targets).

My biggest question about the stat is what the minimum amount of targets is. If a lot of those guys only had 10-15 balls thrown their direction all year, then the stat is trash.

[ColtsLegacy]

20 hours ago, BOTT said:

It's not really about breaking tackles.  Fleener's lacks any kind of quickness to get any significant YAC.....and it's the same reason he can't break a tackle.

 

I think it has more to do with his "lanky" build. He's not thick like most TEs.

[ColtsLegacy]

13 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

My biggest question about the stat is what the minimum amount of targets is. If a lot of those guys only had 10-15 balls thrown their direction all year, then the stat is trash.

 

That's a fair point.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

I think it has more to do with his "lanky" build. He's not thick like most TEs.

Neither was DC, Kellen Winslow, Owen Daniels, etc etc.  His lack of quickness also prevents him from getting separation so usually the defender is there to make a clean tackle.

i get that Fleener was never going to be a guy that runs over people, but he can't any kind of YAC. I'm at the point where I hope they let him walk.  He just isn't my kind of TE.

[ColtsLegacy]

21 hours ago, BOTT said:

Neither was DC, Kellen Winslow, Owen Daniels, etc etc.  His lack of quickness also prevents him from getting separation so usually the defender is there to make a clean tackle.

i get that Fleener was never going to be a guy that runs over people, but he can't any kind of YAC. I'm at the point where I hope they let him walk.  He just isn't my kind of TE.

 

Sorry, I'm not talking about YAC. I was referring you saying his lack of quickness is why he can't break tackles. I agree that his lack of YAC is equal parts due to his build and his lack of quickness.But, I believe his inability to break a tackle is mostly due to his size; whereas, his inablility to evade or avoid a tackle is due to his lack quickness.

 

As for your examples, I think DC and KW were both built better, were better athletes, and were just better football players than Fleener. Owen Daniels is more solid with a lower center of gravity and has always been technically very sound, but he has never been very quick.

 

With all that said, I absolutely agree with the bolded. 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

I don't recall seeing this update posted elsewhere. if so Mods please delete?

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7452/dwayne-allen

 

[BOTT]

On March 2, 2016 at 2:20 PM, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Sorry, I'm not talking about YAC. I was referring you saying his lack of quickness is why he can't break tackles. I agree that his lack of YAC is equal parts due to his build and his lack of quickness.But, I believe his inability to break a tackle is mostly due to his size; whereas, his inablility to evade or avoid a tackle is due to his lack quickness.

 

As for your examples, I think DC and KW were both built better, were better athletes, and were just better football players than Fleener. Owen Daniels is more solid with a lower center of gravity and has always been technically very sound, but he has never been very quick.

 

With all that said, I absolutely agree with the bolded. 

It's kinda funny people still want to believe Fleener is a great athlete.  Maybe he is, but it doesn't translate to football.

[southwest1]

On February 29, 2016 at 4:23 PM, RockThatBlue said:

Fleener is a much better blocker than Jimmy Graham. 

 

For those that think Fleener is a terrible blocker, go back and re watch the thursday game this past year against Houston. A big reason we shut JJ watt down was because of Fleener. Just saying... 

Opinions vary on the blocking prowess of Fleener RTB & let's just say that I don't subscribe to your perspective articulated here. Fleener shutting down Watt. LOL! Now that's funny. Thanks. I needed a good laugh.