Peyton Manning HGH accusation (edit)

[Narcosys]

11 minutes ago, amfootball said:

NFL testing for HGH started in October of 2014. Manning's decline began exactly mid-season last year at the time the testing commenced and has continued to be rapid since then with both his performance and inability to get back on the field due to injuries.

 

Look at his drop off from the first 8 games of 2014 compared to the last 8 games when HGH testing began:

 

                                        Com    Att     Comp %   Yards    Y/A   TD   INT     Pass NEP   

First eight games          208    309     67.3%       2577     8.3    24    5        112.67

Final eight games          187    288    64.9%       2156    7.5     15    10      54.80

 

Then you look at this season where he has been the worst rated passer for most of the season and his 17 picks still leading the league combined with his injuries that have kept him off the field and it is a pretty easy connection to make that his precipitous decline coincided with the HGH testing.

 

HGH is out of your system in a few hours.   How does a few hours equal two months? 

 

Furthermore it took him months and months to recover from his neck,  and it's still a problem.  He was playing injured last year and this year.   You think hgh ha more to do with it than his lack of ability to recover quickly.   

 

I'm only 32, but I can tell you for a fact that from 22 to 32 it takes me much longer to recover from rigorous work and injury than it use to.   

[Restored]

17 minutes ago, amfootball said:

NFL testing for HGH started in October of 2014. Manning's decline began exactly mid-season last year at the time the testing commenced and has continued to be rapid since then with both his performance and inability to get back on the field due to injuries.

 

Look at his drop off from the first 8 games of 2014 compared to the last 8 games when HGH testing began:

 

                                        Com    Att     Comp %   Yards    Y/A   TD   INT     Pass NEP   

First eight games          208    309     67.3%       2577     8.3    24    5        112.67

Final eight games          187    288    64.9%       2156    7.5     15    10      54.80

 

Then you look at this season where he has been the worst rated passer for most of the season and his 17 picks still leading the league combined with his injuries that have kept him off the field and it is a pretty easy connection to make that his precipitous decline coincided with the HGH testing.

Both Dale Guyer and Charles Sly have recanted their statements. You look absolutely ridiculous trying to insinuate that Manning's decline had ANYTHING to do with him taking HGH. 

[amfootball]

19 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

 

HGH is out of your system in a few hours.   How does a few hours equal two months? 

 

Furthermore it took him months and months to recover from his neck,  and it's still a problem.  He was playing injured last year and this year.   You think hgh ha more to do with it than his lack of ability to recover quickly.   

 

I'm only 32, but I can tell you for a fact that from 22 to 32 it takes me much longer to recover from rigorous work and injury than it use to.   

He stopped taking it when the testing began and then the decline. Manning would not be the first athlete to have his performance fall off a cliff when drug testing began. There are scores of them across all sports. And it is this part that gives this report legs IMO.

 

The other thing to consider is Manning had major neck surgeries that left him unable to grip a football and with diminished arm strength due to nerve damage. So he comes back and has the most historic season of all time in 2013 followed by a fall off the mountain decline just a season and a half later right when testing began?

[Restored]

1 minute ago, amfootball said:

He stopped taking it when the testing began and then the decline. Manning would not be the first athlete to have his performance fall off a cliff when drug testing began. There are scores of them across all sports. And it is this part that gives this report legs IMO.

 

The other thing to consider is Manning had major neck surgeries that left him unable to grip a football and with diminished arm strength due to nerve damage. So he comes back and has the most historic season of all time in 2013 followed by a fall off the mountain decline just a season and a half later right when testing began?

 

It's easy to ignore facts when they don't fit your narrative.

[amfootball]

1 minute ago, Restored said:

Both Dale Guyer and Charles Sly have recanted their statements. You look absolutely ridiculous trying to insinuate that Manning's decline had ANYTHING to do with him taking HGH. 

And the reporters have their side too. I suggest you read up today as much information has surfaced. This is going to be muddy for awhile as this thing gets sorted out ...

[hawkeyes]

WHAT?  HCeatoitfans backing a recanted Al Jazeera report - what a big surprise.  ROFL!

 

[Gramz]

1 hour ago, Narcosys said:

I know.  But she is insinuating that he only dropped off because he stopped taking hgh.  Manning is so visibly angry and upset that he nearly sounds like he is choking up a little when discussing how hard he worked to get back.  

 

 

This is very different from how brady sounded in his interview.  We all remember that joke session.  

^That is specifically for those of you bringing up the whole deflategate issue. 

It was a bit heartwrenching to watch and listen to him discussing this.   To work that hard, for that long, to go about it the way he did, and then to have some  * come forth with a fabricated story,   then RECANT that story admitting he made it up, and then to still have the story published.  There are quite a few people making complete and total donkeys butts of themselves over this.   Peyton is not one of them.   

 

[Restored]

7 minutes ago, amfootball said:

And the reporters have their side too. I suggest you read up today as much information has surfaced. This is going to be muddy for awhile as this thing gets sorted out ...

 

The reporters side IS Dale Guyer and Charles Sly. They're the sources for these "reporters".

 

What we really need to be talking about, is  Tom Brady's ties to Alex Gurrero. Brady finds himself associated with a guy who's had extensive legal history of fraud. It's ironic that Brady took a pay cut to "help the team" when he and others on the team have direct support going to Brady's athletic training facility via the Patriots. Brady continues to perform at a high level at an age where most QB's start to decline. His connect to Gurrero shouldn't be overlooked.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2015/12/21/tom-brady-alex-guerrero-business-partnership-is-a-real-scandal/

[Narcosys]

15 minutes ago, amfootball said:

He stopped taking it when the testing began and then the decline. Manning would not be the first athlete to have his performance fall off a cliff when drug testing began. There are scores of them across all sports. And it is this part that gives this report legs IMO.

 

The other thing to consider is Manning had major neck surgeries that left him unable to grip a football and with diminished arm strength due to nerve damage. So he comes back and has the most historic season of all time in 2013 followed by a fall off the mountain decline just a season and a half later right when testing began?

Testing began before the season started!! You sat there and pointed out specifically that his second half of the season is where he dropped. Now I know you were hoping for hgh being in his system for the first half, which when discussing testing is ridiculous because then he should have been caught.   

 

I point out that it is out of your system within hours and you completely forget everything you've just said.   Everyone agrees that he has fallen off in the last half of the season.   So if HGH is out of your system in a few hours, with reports that it actuality doesn't do anything but help with cellular regeneration,  then why did he not fall off from the beginning of the season? 

 

Could it be because he wasn't on it and didn't fall off til he was injured?  

 

You use his 2013 season after his injury to provev your point.   It was TWO. YEARS. LAAAATEEEERRRRRR!!!  Two years door him to work and recover.  If he was using hgh, do you think it would take two years for it to start to work?   I'm sorry but I wouldn't invest in something that took two years to produce results. 

 

How about maybe he was In a system that had 3 great receivers and a league leading TE.  But that had nothing to do with it though right? 

[ViriLudant]

6 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Are you gonna break your own record of being wrong the most in a single thread? You're well on your way.

Oh, so you are one of those Mort truthers.  

[amfootball]

10 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

It's easy to ignore facts when they don't fit your narrative.

Some things to consider.

 

Manning was frequenting a "anti-aging" clinic well known for dispensing HGH (see kravitz column).
Manning's wife is alleged to have taken a drug off-label, which is illegal.

 

Whenever you see anyone who is doing something that historically is unprecedented, no matter if its seven consecutive tours, or the baseball home run race, you have to assume that PEDs are involved. Manning's extraordinary recovery and Star Wars records can certainly fall into that camp.
 

The documentary laid out that there are only three approved uses for HGH, and off-label uses are explicitly illegal (primarily to keep it from being used as a PED I suspect). None of the three uses would apply to Manning's wife. In addition, we have concrete evidence of him being a client of this clinic at the time of the allegations, and have at least one writer documenting his use of HGH in a illegal way.

There is as much circumstantial evidence here as there was in the early days of the Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and Armstrong cases. It needs to be investigated. Being a fan of a sports franchise should not blind anyone to the fact that players in general, and superstars in particular have a established history of breaking rules when and if they thought they could get away with it, and injury tends to be a huge, huge driver of this.

[csmopar]

9 minutes ago, amfootball said:

And the reporters have their side too. I suggest you read up today as much information has surfaced. This is going to be muddy for awhile as this thing gets sorted out ...

 

 

Oh how the tides have turned.......

 

It was you claiming Tom Brady and the Patriots innocence despite evidence showing other wise, you said that if they denied it, it was good enough.  You said that ESPN and others were simply making false statements and that the Well's investigation was full of lies.  

 

Now fast forward.

 

Guy admits to lying and making up a story that was published by Al Jazera, a terror linked news and propaganda agency known for it's false reporting.  The Doctor and the Sly character both admit that Sly was not working for the insititute during Peyton's treatment in 2011.  Peyton has never tested positive for it.  Peyton has a documented history last season of verified injuries that explain his fall off.  Peyton has no history what so ever of cheating.  

 

You're just trying to grasp at anything you can to try to shift the shady image from Brady to Manning.  

 

And you're little comment about other pro athletes not saying anything, well several of them have now denied the report and others are threatening to sue.

 

Quit trolling already.

 

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, amfootball said:

Some things to consider.

 

Manning was frequenting a "anti-aging" clinic well known for dispensing HGH (see kravitz column).
Manning's wife is alleged to have taken a drug off-label, which is illegal.

 

Whenever you see anyone who is doing something that historically is unprecedented, no matter if its seven consecutive tours, or the baseball home run race, you have to assume that PEDs are involved. Manning's extraordinary recovery and Star Wars records can certainly fall into that camp.
 

The documentary laid out that there are only three approved uses for HGH, and off-label uses are explicitly illegal (primarily to keep it from being used as a PED I suspect). None of the three uses would apply to Manning's wife. In addition, we have concrete evidence of him being a client of this clinic at the time of the allegations, and have at least one writer documenting his use of HGH in a illegal way.

There is as much circumstantial evidence here as there was in the early days of the Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and Armstrong cases. It needs to be investigated. Being a fan of a sports franchise should not blind anyone to the fact that players in general, and superstars in particular have a established history of breaking rules when and if they thought they could get away with it, and injury tends to be a huge, huge driver of this.

 

 

................................... I can't even find the words

[Restored]

Just now, amfootball said:

Some things to consider.

 

Manning was frequenting a "anti-aging" clinic well known for dispensing HGH (see kravitz column).
Manning's wife is alleged to have taken a drug off-label, which is illegal.

 

Whenever you see anyone who is doing something that historically is unprecedented, no matter if its seven consecutive tours, or the baseball home run race, you have to assume that PEDs are involved. Manning's extraordinary recovery and Star Wars records can certainly fall into that camp.
 

The documentary laid out that there are only three approved uses for HGH, and off-label uses are explicitly illegal (primarily to keep it from being used as a PED I suspect). None of the three uses would apply to Manning's wife. In addition, we have concrete evidence of him being a client of this clinic at the time of the allegations, and have at least one writer documenting his use of HGH in a illegal way.

There is as much circumstantial evidence here as there was in the early days of the Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and Armstrong cases. It needs to be investigated. Being a fan of a sports franchise should not blind anyone to the fact that players in general, and superstars in particular have a established history of breaking rules when and if they thought they could get away with it, and injury tends to be a huge, huge driver of this.

 

Actually, the allegation against Ashley Manning violates HIPAA. Not to mention it isn't true considering both sources of this fabricated story have recanted their statements.

 

Oh really? Then why haven't we looked at Brady's 2007 season? Or the season after he came back from a torn ACL AND MCL? I think we have to look at Brady's too.

 

Again this is wrong. Manning was a patient in 2011. The source of the story didn't work there until 2013.

 

Quit trying to drive a false narrative.

[Gramz]

Flabbergasted at the extents some people go here to try to prove obvious falsehoods.     

Some can't see the truth because they are too busy fabricating  their "own" truths.  So bizarre.

 

Okay,  I'm off to work for the day.   Enjoy your back and forth here..  

 

[Narcosys]

23 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

It's easy to ignore facts when they don't fit your narrative.

What facts?  That a qb dropped off after his best season?  Drew Brees must have been taking hgh,  Joe Flacco must have been, and countless others who had disappointing seasons after.  Come on,  this is getting to be a real stretch to believe if you know anything about hgh, and what it does and how its used.  

[Narcosys]

20 minutes ago, Mrs. Misunderstood said:

It was a bit heartwrenching to watch and listen to him discussing this.   To work that hard, for that long, to go about it the way he did, and then to have some  * come forth with a fabricated story,   then RECANT that story admitting he made it up, and then to still have the story published.  There are quite a few people making complete and total donkeys butts of themselves over this.   Peyton is not one of them.   

 

 

The amount of restraint and class he showed is amazing, considering how you could visibly see he was upset.

[csmopar]

18 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

The reporters side IS Dale Guyer and Charles Sly. They're the sources for these "reporters".

 

What we really need to be talking about, is  Tom Brady's ties to Alex Gurrero. Brady finds himself associated with a guy who's had extensive legal history of fraud. It's ironic that Brady took a pay cut to "help the team" when he and others on the team have direct support going to Brady's athletic training facility via the Patriots. Brady continues to perform at a high level at an age where most QB's start to decline. His connect to Gurrero shouldn't be overlooked.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2015/12/21/tom-brady-alex-guerrero-business-partnership-is-a-real-scandal/

 

 

Dont even try, she's too spun up on Tom's Goddess status.......

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

What facts?  That a qb dropped off after his best season?  Drew Brees must have been taking hgh,  Joe Flacco must have been, and countless others who had disappointing seasons after.  Come on,  this is getting to be a real stretch to believe if you know anything about hgh, and what it does and how its used.  

Stretch...heck, call it what it is, a complete and false fabrication of details in a hope to stir an argument....

[amfootball]

6 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

What facts?  That a qb dropped off after his best season?  Drew Brees must have been taking hgh,  Joe Flacco must have been, and countless others who had disappointing seasons after.  Come on,  this is getting to be a real stretch to believe if you know anything about hgh, and what it does and how its used.  

None of their drop-offs coincided with drug testing nor were as precipitous as Manning's fall off.

[Restored]

1 minute ago, amfootball said:

None of their drop-offs coincided with drug testing nor were as precipitous as Manning's fall off.

 

Your posts are getting shorter and shorter as you retreat. I recommend you leave the thread while you still have a shred of dignity.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Restored said:

 

Your posts are getting shorter and shorter as you retreat. I recommend you leave the thread while you still have a shred of dignity.

 

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, amfootball said:

None of their drop-offs coincided with drug testing nor were as precipitous as Manning's fall off.

you do realize that they'd been testing for this drug off and on since the 2000s...right?  There was even players suspended for it, one was a Patriot if I recall right,

[Narcosys]

8 minutes ago, amfootball said:

None of their drop-offs coincided with drug testing nor were as precipitous as Manning's fall off.

Brees did. 

[amfootball]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

you do realize that they'd been testing for this drug off and on since the 2000s...right?  There was even players suspended for it, one was a Patriot if I recall right,

HGH formal testing was part of the 2011 CBA. It took a few years for it to get passed with the red tape that is inherent in any formalized drug program. But you are right, HGH has been illegal in the NFL for quite some time and players in the past have been suspended for taking it which is why Manning needs to be careful here. If it gets proven that he did in fact take it then he will be subject to league discipline. He talked of a defamation suit but until he flat denies that his wife received HGH then I doubt it happens as all that will come to light ...

[Cynjin]

26 minutes ago, amfootball said:

Some things to consider.

Manning's wife is alleged to have taken a drug off-label, which is illegal.

 

 

Are you tired of being wrong yet?  It is not illegal for a doctor to prescribe HGH or any other drug for off label use.  

[csmopar]

Just now, amfootball said:

HGH formal testing was part of the 2011 CBA. It took a few years for it to get passed with the red tape that is inherent in any formalized drug program. But you are right, HGH has always been illegal in the NFL and players in the past have been suspended for taking it which is why Manning needs to be careful here. If it gets proven that he did in fact take it then he will be subject to league discipline. He talked of a defamation suit but until he flat denies that his wife received HGH then I doubt it happens as all that will come to light ...

 

 

The point you fell to understand is it doesn't matter what his wife did or didn't take, as long as he didn't take it.  Besides, disclosing her medical history is illegal as heck too.  Just because they are married, doesn't give him the right to disclose her medical history, matter of fact, she can forbid it and bam, nobody can do squat about it.   His wife isn't in the NFL and not subject to the NFL's policies what so ever

[amfootball]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

 

 

The point you fell to understand is it doesn't matter what his wife did or didn't take, as long as he didn't take it.  Besides, disclosing her medical history is illegal as heck too.  Just because they are married, doesn't give him the right to disclose her medical history, matter of fact, she can forbid it and bam, nobody can do squat about it.   His wife isn't in the NFL and not subject to the NFL's policies what so ever

It is private but given the nature of the story and the accusation, either he or she will have to come clean about what she received at or from the clinic.

[Cynjin]

29 minutes ago, amfootball said:

Being a fan of a sports franchise should not blind anyone to the fact that players in general, and superstars in particular have a established history of breaking rules when and if they thought they could get away with it, and injury tends to be a huge, huge driver of this.

 

Well we certainly know this is true with Tom Brady.

[Cynjin]

12 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Your posts are getting shorter and shorter as you retreat. I recommend you leave the thread while you still have a shred of dignity.

Too late.

[Restored]

4 minutes ago, amfootball said:

It is private but given the nature of the story and the accusation, either he or she will have to come clean about what she received at or from the clinic.

 

Actually, no she doesn't. HIPAA protects against this. A sports accusation doesn't change United States law.

 

Spend some time on this page: http://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/index.html

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, amfootball said:

It is private but given the nature of the story and the accusation, either he or she will have to come clean about what she received at or from the clinic.

legally, no she does not. and neither does he.  

[amfootball]

Just now, Restored said:

 

Actually, no she doesn't. HIPAA protects against this. A sports accusation doesn't change United States law.

 

Spend some time on this page: http://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/index.html

I am not talking legal. I am talking perception which is what Manning is fighting here. Without knowing what she received from the clinic, this will continue to follow Manning. He knows that. The entire report hinges on what his wife received. A simple denial that she did not get HGH would make this pretty much go away if true. But he has not done that. He just keeps saying it is private but how hard is it to say she did not get HGH? That really is not disclosing anything about her treatment or medical condition if she did not receive HGH.

[jvan1973]

9 minutes ago, amfootball said:

It is private but given the nature of the story and the accusation, either he or she will have to come clean about what she received at or from the clinic.

The story has already been retracted.  Lawsuits upcomihg.  

[Narcosys]

10 minutes ago, amfootball said:

HGH formal testing was part of the 2011 CBA. It took a few years for it to get passed with the red tape that is inherent in any formalized drug program. But you are right, HGH has been illegal in the NFL for quite some time and players in the past have been suspended for taking it which is why Manning needs to be careful here. If it gets proven that he did in fact take it then he will be subject to league discipline. He talked of a defamation suit but until he flat denies that his wife received HGH then I doubt it happens as all that will come to light ...

 

Since you want to bring up HGH again, when you know nothing about it apparently, why have you not addressed the fact that HGH is out of your system in a couple of hours, yet you keep pushing this second half season falloff connection?  The facts do not in any way support your claim.  If he was using it, he would have had to use it up until the second half of the season because of how quickly it can leave your system.  Because of this he would have had to use it prior to a game for performance boost (which is debatable), or after to help speed recovery.  If they were testing for it, then he should have been caught yes?  So why wasn't he? 

 

You disregard all the recants, and the timeline of the sources and manning being there.  Nothing in your argument is making sense when looking at the facts. 

 

Furthermore why does he need to bring his wife into this?  The only perception he has to fight are from New England fans who blindly want some reason to bash Manning so that their own QB isn't the only tarnished one.

[amfootball]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The story has already been retracted.  Lawsuits upcomihg.  

The report aired last night. And will continue to air ...

[Restored]

Just now, amfootball said:

I am not talking legal. I am talking perception which is what Manning is fighting here. Without knowing what she received from the clinic, this will continue to follow Manning. He knows that. The entire report hinges on what his wife received. A simple denial that she did not get HGH would make this pretty much go away if true. But he has not done that. He just keeps saying it is private but how hard is it to say she did not get HGH? That really is not disclosing anything about her treatment or medical condition if she did not receive HGH.

 

Because what his wife received has absolutely nothing to do with him. This story will go away on its own whether or not Manning does anything considering both sources of this story have retracted their statements. In fact, Manning has a valid case for filing suit and will likely end up owning a portion of Al-Jazerra when its all said and done.

[amfootball]

1 minute ago, Restored said:

 

Because what his wife received has absolutely nothing to do with him. This story will go away on its own whether or not Manning does anything considering both sources of this story have retracted their statements. In fact, Manning has a valid case for filing suit and will likely end up owning a portion of Al-Jazerra when its all said and done.

I am sorry to tell you but this is never going away. That is why Manning is so angry and thinking about a defamation suit.

[Narcosys]

Ok, so do Obama Birthers, does it mean its true just because its still going around?  Does it not ring any alarms that the story has been retracted as quickly as it took someone to read it and realize its nonsense?

3 minutes ago, amfootball said:

The report aired last night. And will continue to air ...

 

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, amfootball said:

The report aired last night. And will continue to air ...

So has the retraction.....your point?