Is Grigson a "Control Freak"...And Does It Matter

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

If Grigs would keep his nose out of Pagano's duties and focus on assembling

a team, then maybe he wouldn't suck so bad as a GM.

[jvan1973]

If Irsay feels Pagano is the guy for the job then there is. If Irsay signs him to a multi year deal then the whole talk of whether or not he thinks Pagano is the guy for the job goes away and shifts to why does he think he is the guy now for the job. But bottom line is everyone would know exactly where Irsay stood on the matter of whether he thought Pagano was the long-term answer, Then the talk would die down shortly after that and everyone could get back to football (Media wise)...I think both Irsay and Grigson have doubts

Clearly irsay doesn't, thus not offering him a multi year deal this summer. He certainly isn't going to do that when the team is 3-5

[Corndog]

Clearly irsay doesn't, thus not offering him a multi year deal this summer. He certainly isn't going to do that when the team is 3-5

Good point, but why not sign a new coach in the offseason?  With all of the FAs signed, why go into a season with a lame duck coach?  Maybe he doesn't trust Grigson to bring his own guy in either?  We will just have to wait until the offseason to get the answers. 

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

If Pagano is let go after this season, who would want to sign up and coach under these conditions?

Grigs is the head of the snake and needs to be chopped off.

[TheBlackHand]

Grigson is atrocious at his job

Check his history

Only good at blowing the whistle

[jaybird95]

Not sure what you mean. I'm not hounding you, and I'm not jumping to conclusions. You said there was no evidence, and I think this report qualifies as evidence. There's a big difference between evidence and proof.

 

And you might note that I've been mostly dismissive of these 'reports,' up until now.

 

I wasn't referring to you. Why the change?

[csmopar]

Im sorry dude Im mexican. English is not my native language so Im gonna make mistakes like that one

often.

Try spelling in spanish.

está todo bien , hombre. me estaba esperando para asegurarse de que le he entendido bien .

[jvan1973]

Good point, but why not sign a new coach in the offseason? With all of the FAs signed, why go into a season with a lame duck coach? Maybe he doesn't trust Grigson to bring his own guy in either? We will just have to wait until the offseason to get the answers.

Hard to say.

[jvan1973]

Grigson is atrocious at his job

Check his history

Only good at blowing the whistle

Terrible post

[Superman]

I wasn't referring to you. Why the change?

 

Got it, wasn't sure.

 

The change -- which is hesitant, by the way -- is because Holder says this is coming from Colts players. I'm not sure he's actually heard it directly from Colts players, or if he's getting it from secondhand sources. And either way, it's still a lot of hearsay.

 

This is just a stronger report than anything that's come out until now. 

[jaybird95]

Got it, wasn't sure.

 

The change -- which is hesitant, by the way -- is because Holder says this is coming from Colts players. I'm not sure he's actually heard it directly from Colts players, or if he's getting it from secondhand sources. And either way, it's still a lot of hearsay.

 

This is just a stronger report than anything that's come out until now. 

 

Agree with what you're saying.

[ztboiler]

I'd say that there's only going to be so much that Pagano can do to try to get that authority.  But when push comes to shove, the bottom line is that Grigson is Pagano's boss, and Irsay is Grigson's.  So if Grigson starts taking authority away from Pagano (or never gave that authority in the first place...all of the rumors that have come out so far seem to indicate this is only happening on the offensive side of the ball) and Irsay is supportive of Grigson doing so, then Pagano can put up as much of a fight as he wants (which will obviously only be done behind closed doors) but ultimately he can't force Grigson/Irsay to change their minds.

Sure, there is a chain of command involved.  No problem with that....but it doesn't change the reality that a coach with clout won't let himself be put into a weak corner position that could actually diminish his future value.

[Jason_]

Sure, there is a chain of command involved.  No problem with that....but it doesn't change the reality that a coach with clout won't let himself be put into a weak corner position that could actually diminish his future value.

 

In that respect, I'm guessing the verbiage in his contract was vague enough that it allows Grigson to overrule him at will.  That, or the verbiage is very clear and Pagano signed the contract anyway.  If the former, then Pagano definitely should have pushed for as much clarification as possible in the verbiage of the contract.  If the 2nd is true, then I can only surmise that his desire to be a HC outweighed his concern about possibly being overruled.  I can kind of understand that but don't think it would have been the smartest decision.  

 

Though after thinking about it for a minute, I am inclined to think that it's more likely to be the latter, since ambiguity in the contract would favor Pagano in this situation, since the contract would have been written up by the Colts.

[JPFolks]

It sounds like you want to fire him anyway, and might be looking around for "news" reports to validate that opinion. I don't think you're alone.

I am less for firing anyone than most here.  In fact, I have argued to not fire anyone simply because at all positions we may end up with something worse and many names being floated scare the hell out of me.  But if the argument is that Grigs is in charge so he should be free to meddle in things usually decided by the coaching staff, then I strongly feel he needs to be responsible for the outcome, whether it is GM of the year for winning the Super Bowl, or being fired (if someone must be) for over-riding someone else and thus taking sole responsibility for the results of that demand.,  

 

I do think there is a potential for improvement with Chud over Pep, and that is he prefers to rely on the TE's and controlling the middle of the field by combining that with a run focus.  I always supported Pep's philosophy of power run, two TEs an a monster QB who can hit home runs win games when needed.  But Pep, for whatever reason, stopped using our TE's.  It is baffling because I think we've wasted 4 affordable years with top tier TE's.  I think a key to a turnaround can be big reliance on our TEs in crossing routes and check downs along with using Bradshaw in particular in the short passing game.  That would take pressure off the line and off Luck both.  Seems like a win, win, win possibly for more actual wins.  The players need to deliver, but it sure seems like the right way to go for me.  

 

To address what I just read above on someone else's post: Though I am not for firing Pagano automatically, I do think he can be a bit spineless during game strategy.   Just wanted to put that out there.   He has the Dungy/Caldwell disease.. no killer instinct as a coach.  Perhaps they are all just too nice.  I think it has made our team a little soft.  

[Defjamz26]

Read through 2.5 pages of this. Here's my take.

I get that a lot of people need "proof", but as a journalist major I can tell you that these stories being run are editorials, and editorials are allowed to be subjective and lacking of facts. So anyone waiting for confirmation or proof will be waiting for forever or if someone decides to spill the beans. Even there it's he said/she said.

But I think if you analyze enough you can read between the lines and ascertain certain details. Like Superman said I think there is some truth behind the rumor, and most of the tumors. The accusations are way to specific to be dismissed as just nonsense.

I think the poster who mentioned how Grigs really talks up his guys hit the nail right on the head. I think he really thinks that he has it figured out and based on what he saw from a guy on film, he assumes he's got it figured out. Like with Louis. He made it seem like he was a gold nugget that everyone else just dismissed. I'm sure he felt like Louis had to start. Herremans is an easy one because he was part of the scout team that drafted him. One of his actual "diamond in the rough" successes.

If you really study the things Grigson has said in interviews, it's not hard to see why there is some truth behind the rumors of him meddling in lineups.

[ztboiler]

In that respect, I'm guessing the verbiage in his contract was vague enough that it allows Grigson to overrule him at will.  That, or the verbiage is very clear and Pagano signed the contract anyway.  If the former, then Pagano definitely should have pushed for as much clarification as possible in the verbiage of the contract.  If the 2nd is true, then I can only surmise that his desire to be a HC outweighed his concern about possibly being overruled.  I can kind of understand that but don't think it would have been the smartest decision.  

 

Though after thinking about it for a minute, I am inclined to think that it's more likely to be the latter, since ambiguity in the contract would favor Pagano in this situation, since the contract would have been written up by the Colts.

I don't know exactly how it works either but I don't think Grigson can technically control what happens on gameday.  I'll frame it this simply, and use a polarizing example that we all can understand.  If Pagano felt like playing Shipley at center gave the team the best chance to win, then shame on him for not making it so on gameday.  About the only thing I can think of that Grigson might be able to do to avoid being subverted is to make Shipley inactive in that case - assuming that is within his reach.  

 

That is what I'd expect a coach with clout to do regardless of the conflict it might cause.  Then, when called on the carpet, you say "You hired me to make decisions that will lead this team to victory.  I'm a Horseshoe guy, and that's what I did.  If you need to get someone else to coach the team, please let me know.  If not, until further notice, this conversation is over."

[DougDew]

Read through 2.5 pages of this. Here's my take.

I get that a lot of people need "proof", but as a journalist major I can tell you that these stories being run are editorials, and editorials are allowed to be subjective and lacking of facts. So anyone waiting for confirmation or proof will be waiting for forever or if someone decides to spill the beans. Even there it's he said/she said.

But I think if you analyze enough you can read between the lines and ascertain certain details. Like Superman said I think there is some truth behind the rumor, and most of the tumors. The accusations are way to specific to be dismissed as just nonsense.

I think the poster who mentioned how Grigs really talks up his guys hit the nail right on the head. I think he really thinks that he has it figured out and based on what he saw from a guy on film, he assumes he's got it figured out. Like with Louis. He made it seem like he was a gold nugget that everyone else just dismissed. I'm sure he felt like Louis had to start. Herremans is an easy one because he was part of the scout team that drafted him. One of his actual "diamond in the rough" successes.

If you really study the things Grigson has said in interviews, it's not hard to see why there is some truth behind the rumors of him meddling in lineups.

Then if journalists are editorializing, that means they are taking some fact, some hearsay, some observations, and forming an opinion.....maybe a wrong one. As do readers of the editorials.

"Making lineup changes" could apply to either this season or last season or both. It could mean it was simply the Harrison over AQ Shipley thing last year.

If it was this season, everybody is assuming that it was Grigson who wanted LL and Todd in the starting lineup...and assume Pags wanted the current lineup as the one starting the season. Right? That's what everybody is basing the "lineup decisions" on, the oline then and the oline now.

Louis was a Grigs guy. But people are assuming that Reitz, who did not start the first two games ISN'T a Grigs guy. Why do they assume that? Because they know Grigs is an *, and believe that he chose an inferior play over a better player because LL was 'his guy'.

LL has a 1 year vet minimum contract. And Grigs signed Reitz to a 3 yr/9 million dollar contract.

Ok forum...which one is likely to be a 'Grigs guy'?

Grigs was praising LL in the media because he was asked the question, and he was supporting his player...but "editorialists" read what they want into that....wrongly.

Thorton was hurt...if you were they HC, who would you put in at RG?

LL graded as the best Olineman in the preseason for several games. If you were HC, who would you start at LG?

JM was taken in the 2nd round to replace Cherilous at RT when CG's contract expired. That need came a year earlier than expected. Would the HC go ahead and TRY your future RT at RT even though it was a season earlier than expected?

PAGANO MADE THE OLINE DECISIONS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON BECAUSE THEY WERE THE CORRECT DECISIONS AT THE TIME. Then, after LL and Todd failed, HE THEN DECIDED TO SHUFFLE THE LINEUP.

Why do people choose to believe that Grigs is an *...when common sense doesn't point to it...at all.

[Mameluc]

There really is no benefit to doing that now.

I Disagree. Players  are also getting affected.

 

If you are firing GM anyways at seasons end there it is better doing it now. Why wait have him plan when he is gone anyways and you give new GM extra time to evaluate.

 

I do agree on Pagano no point.

 

Also it might affect external perception regardig possible HC and free agents coming, I mean  i dont think a lot o fplayers wanted to go to jags/raiders a few years ago but money. We wont have money after lucks contract and others

[Mameluc]

está todo bien , hombre. me estaba esperando para asegurarse de que le he entendido bien .

Like you almost got it hahah nice google translate  

 

"me estaba esperando para asegurarse" is kinda making no sense lol but nice effort

 

A+

[jvan1973]

I Disagree. Players are also getting affected.

If you are firing GM anyways at seasons end there it is better doing it now. Why wait have him plan when he is gone anyways and you give new GM extra time to evaluate.

I do agree on Pagano no point.

Also it might affect external perception regardig possible HC and free agents coming, I mean i dont think a lot o fplayers wanted to go to jags/raiders a few years ago but money. We wont have money after lucks contract and others

They wouldn't hire a new gm befor . The season ended

[Moncrief]

I was gonna say my 3 years of Spanish class paid off but that looked like a Google translate sentence

Like you almost got it hahah nice google translate

 

"me estaba esperando para asegurarse" is kinda making no sense lol but nice effort

 

A+

[csmopar]

Like you almost got it hahah nice google translate

"me estaba esperando para asegurarse" is kinda making no sense lol but nice effort

A+

. Actually didn't use Google translate. I'll admit though, I did cheat and look up a few of the words in my Spanish dictionary and tried to build a sentence. Been a while since I've used my Spanish I learned in college.

[Mameluc]

. Actually didn't use Google translate. I'll admit though, I did cheat and look up a few of the words in my Spanish dictionary and tried to build a sentence. Been a while since I've used my Spanish I learned in college.

lol it was fine anyways, I mean i understant what you were trying to say on the first read

[Gavin]

Another thought occurred to me while sitting here watching college football......What if its Irsay that's calling all the shots and directing Grigson to make these decisions that's now made some question if he is a control freak. Irsay was after all was the one who has confronted Grigson after a couple of bad losses over the last couple years.

[Corndog]

Another thought occurred to me while sitting here watching college football......What if its Irsay that's calling all the shots and directing Grigson to make these decisions that's now made some question if he is a control freak. Irsay was after all was the one who has confronted Grigson after a couple of bad losses over the last couple years.

Well if that is the case, why have Grigson at all?  Obviously that would mean Irsay doesn't trust him.  Although it really doesn't sound like Irsay.  While he is known for being an involved owner, he isn't known for being an overbearing one that meddles with coaching and game time decisions.   One thing for certain, it will be an interesting off season.

[csmopar]

Another thought occurred to me while sitting here watching college football......What if its Irsay that's calling all the shots and directing Grigson to make these decisions that's now made some question if he is a control freak. Irsay was after all was the one who has confronted Grigson after a couple of bad losses over the last couple years.

I had that thought also.  But based on the reports of Grigs and Jim getting into it, I'm wondering if Jim was actually more hands off than before.  Because, as soon as they have this confrontation, stuff started changing, Pep fired whom by all accounts was a hire Grigson pushed for.  It could very well be that Irsay is fed up with Grigs instead of Pagano.  

 

Sadly, we're never ever know

[NagelHausForge]

Who is to say that original lineup wasn't Grigson's idea?  After all, why would he have signed Herremans if he didn't want him to start? I would think Grigs forced him in the lineup before thinking he forced him OUT of the lineup.  Either way, it demonstrates a failure on Grigson's part.  

 

That's what I was trying to say... Did you not read the post I was responding to?

[JPFolks]

I think a key to a turnaround can be big reliance on our TEs in crossing routes and check downs along with using Bradshaw in particular in the short passing game.  That would take pressure off the line and off Luck both.  Seems like a win, win, win possibly for more actual wins.  The players need to deliver, but it sure seems like the right way to go for me

I love it when I am right!