How Much Does This Firing Have To Do With Manning's Future

[jgstriker]

Is the "Manning decision" a large part of this firing, and if yes, what do you think is the thought process of Irsay?

[primus]

I think BP was ready to release Peyton and move forward with Luck. I don't believe Irsay will cut ties with Peyton, if he plays it will be for the colts.

[WoolMagnet]

It may not have been planned, but it certainly does affect the other.

I think Irsay and Polian reached an impass in their "discussion" of the results this season. Who knows, maybe Irsay said "hey Bill, your kid ain't YOU!" I'm sure Polian was tough to deal with at times. I think he'll be hard to replace. But you can't argue the apparent lack of talent on this team. Or if you think there is talent, the lack of getting good coaching, etc.

Its just, week by week, looking like the team is posturing for a "new start". This could happen on so many levels this year. I'm torn on this issue.

With all the changes at coaching the last couple years, (Off Coord, OL coach, RB coach, def coord , now GM), how do you plan to "make another couple runs".

I'm waiting to see if Caldwell stays / Goes. That will be interesting.

[Dan]

I hope Irsay wants to sit Luck but I get the feeling that was Polian's plan and Irsay didn't like it for financial reasons. Hoping I'm wrong.

[mouthofsouth]

Bill Polian semi-retired and got his son hired as general manager which is nepotism. Irsay went along with it for the time being. However, Irsay has since gotten a strong inkling that the son is not as good as his father, so the future of the Colts cannot be with Polian Jr. as general manager. Bill, on the other hand, is trying to do what any father would: guarantee his son a cushy and secure future.

The Polians did not like the fact that Irsay is so attached to Manning that he has plans to keep his stellar qb in the organization even after he retires from quarterbacking. This strongly implies a situation somewhat like Elway and the Broncos. The Polians saw this as meaning that Polian Jr.'s position with the Colts may soon be in jeopardy.

So the Polians made a power play to oust Manning and draft Luck, hoping to get rid of the threat to the Polians' future with the Colts. It did not work. They had a serious fight with Irsay over it resulting in the ousting of the Polians.

Bill Polian gave hints of how he feels about Manning on his radio show, did he not? And I know only what I have read. I do not live in the Indy area, so I cannot hear the show. But he made negative remarks about Peyton's physical condition which Peyton said were not true. This was in the article I read on Polians' firing.

Most of what I have written here is just my putting two and two together on the matter. (Woman's intuition?}

[WSO]

I believe it's either going to be Luck OR Manning. Of course they can coexist but financially it wouldn't make sense. Irsay is going to do what's best for the organization. An aging QB coming off his 3rd neck surgery due 35m total if he plays next year or a young QB that can be a franchise caliber QB for the next 10-15 years ready to start day 1.

[jgstriker]

BUT if Manning is healthy, he would likely be able to put up a few or more years of quarterback play, that IMO would probably never be reached by Luck (and I am for the Luck pick)

[pacolts56]

I voted yes, Irsay is ready to move on from Peyton and did not like Polian's plans.....two separate situations, both hugely significant.

Peyton's age, medical uncertainties and contract dictate that Irsay HAS to take a serious look at the short and long term future whether he's ready to move on or not.

Obviously, this is not how any of the parties or us fans wanted this to shake out....but it just happens that way sometimes. Erase Peyton's injury and its clear he'd probably, and may still, play longer and then retire from the Colts under his own terms....but the fairy tale ending we are all hoping for is completely uncertain with 10s of millions of Jim Irsay's dollars on the table. I hope this end of things can work out but I ain't gonna bet my house on it.

As far as the Polian's end of this equation, I simply believe what Irsay said at the press conference today as far as going in a new direction.....although Irsay also may have come to a place of buyers remorse with Bill Polian greasing the path for Chris, who reportedly throws some pretty sharp elbows of his own.

Mostly though.....Jim's use of the phrases "end of an era" and "it's just time" tell me we might oughta prepare for REALLY big changes.

[husker61]

maybe irsay didn't want polians son and pop didn't want to fire him.

[Smitto]

That was not a factor at all, what was the factor was how ill prepared BP made this team and how horribly they looked during the season... had nothing to do with peyton.. both BP and Jim agreed that keeping peyton was the right choice so its not about peyton.

[Malakai432]

Irsay was talking about doing what's best for the organization in a long term aspect in his press conference. He also mentioned stuff like rebuilding, new eras, and more. He did stress how we also have the #1 pick and I'm also assuming he wasn't talking about a new era just with the management changes, I sensed that he was talking about the team as a whole. He mentioned that the Colts aren't trying to achieve greatness or, "get back to greatness," in the short term. IMO the guy will probably most likely draft and if I had to bet on it keep Luck. I would personally like to see both of them on the same team, but the best thing for this team would be to bring in Mannings successor, yes that could even be RGiii or someone else but it will most likely be Luck and hopefully having him being them mentored by Manning for a few more years. People could also make the case RGiii is to good to sit, I personally think he's better than Cam.

Obviously it's all speculation as of now but according to Irsay himself, words from his mouth during the press conference has the Colts being in rebuilding mode, most likely on all fronts IE players, coaches and obviously management.

People think that Manning and Luck coexisting is highly unlikely and a fantasy and it could possibly be, but at the same time so believing that this team will be super bowl bound within the next couple years especially with everything that is happening within the organization. Colts will possibly lose some vets, we have young players that still need to develop, new young players coming in, new mgmt (obviously), new coaching (possibly) & hopefully Manning coming back healthy, but coming back after a year off and surgery. I don't really expect them to instantly rebound and be a sure fire super bowl contender like many people seem to hope.

[WoolMagnet]

Irsay was talking about doing what's best for the organization in a long term aspect in his press conference. He also mentioned stuff like rebuilding, new eras, and more. He did stress how we also have the #1 pick and I'm also assuming he wasn't talking about a new era just with the management changes, I sensed that he was talking about the team as a whole. He mentioned that the Colts aren't trying to achieve greatness or, "get back to greatness," in the short term. IMO the guy will probably most likely draft and if I had to bet on it keep Luck. I would personally like to see both of them on the same team, but the best thing for this team would be to bring in Mannings successor, yes that could even be RGiii or someone else but it will most likely be Luck and hopefully having him being them mentored by Manning for a few more years. People could also make the case RGiii is to good to sit, I personally think he's better than Cam.

Obviously it's all speculation as of now but according to Irsay himself, words from his mouth during the press conference has the Colts being in rebuilding mode, most likely on all fronts IE players, coaches and obviously management.

People think that Manning and Luck coexisting is highly unlikely and a fantasy and it could possibly be, but at the same time so believing that this team will be super bowl bound within the next couple years especially with everything that is happening within the organization. Colts will possibly lose some vets, we have young players that still need to develop, new young players coming in, new mgmt (obviously), new coaching (possibly) & hopefully Manning coming back healthy, but coming back after a year off and surgery. I don't really expect them to instantly rebound and be a sure fire super bowl contender like many people seem to hope.

Wow look at you using logic.

Haven't seen any round here for a while.

The signs are starting to point more in one direction.

[super8todd]

Firing the Polians, means we will be rebuilding. Expect drafting Luck and trading Manning. Irsay even says the obvious.. that we are indeed in rebuilding mode. This makes sense for Irsay, who wants his daughters to take over his reign... it means HE is ready to move on as well. Pretty obvious, but i guess it has to be said for others to finally believe.

[husker61]

Firing the Polians, means we will be rebuilding. Expect drafting Luck and trading Manning. Irsay even says the obvious.. that we are indeed in rebuilding mode. This makes sense for Irsay, who wants his daughters to take over his reign... it means HE is ready to move on as well. Pretty obvious, but i guess it has to be said for others to finally believe.

how many owners have walked away from a team unless they are really old or in poor health. this has to be one of the craziest things i have heard!

[austriancolt]

Who else thinks that Peyton was a reason why Irsay finally fired the Polians? I think Manning wasn't very happy with Bill Polian and it come to a rupture between them over the last months.

[GoColts8818]

Firing the Polians, means we will be rebuilding. Expect drafting Luck and trading Manning. Irsay even says the obvious.. that we are indeed in rebuilding mode. This makes sense for Irsay, who wants his daughters to take over his reign... it means HE is ready to move on as well. Pretty obvious, but i guess it has to be said for others to finally believe.

Again due to his contract trading Peyton Manning is nearly impossiable. If Manning isn't going to be here next year we will have to release him and get nothing for him.

[GoColts8818]

how many owners have walked away from a team unless they are really old or in poor health. this has to be one of the craziest things i have heard!

I don't think it will be this off-season but Irsay has said several times he will turn the ownership over the team over to his daughters in a few years and had hinted at the end of Peyton Manning's career as the target date. Now with that said I think that was the target date for a lot of things but I think today really changed a lot of those plans.

[Revis FL]

Irsay has been on record multiple times saying if Peyton is healthy he will be back. I don't think the decision on the Polian's being fired had anything to do with Peyton. I think it was more of a you're not doing your job issue. Irsay saw the lack of talent on this team. Without Manning they are nothing and that was blatantly obvious this year. To me that's a big reason why Jim Caldwell still has his job. A coach can only do so much. Management has to give him the players, and they simply haven't done that since probably 2006.

[GoColts8818]

Irsay has been on record multiple times saying if Peyton is healthy he will be back. I don't think the decision on the Polian's being fired had anything to do with Peyton. I think it was more of a you're not doing your job issue. Irsay saw the lack of talent on this team. Without Manning they are nothing and that was blatantly obvious this year. To me that's a big reason why Jim Caldwell still has his job. A coach can only do so much. Management has to give him the players, and they simply haven't done that since probably 2006.

The only way it could have and I am not saying this is the case because clearly I don't know, is if Irsay and Polian disagreed about what to do with Manning. From the sounds of it this firing had more to do with poor draft classes, poor decisions on players being released and kept causing a lack of talent on the team and frankly like the Polians had worn out their welcome with the rest of the front office.

[Hammer]

Peyton said he was surprised, shocked, and disappointed by the Polians' firing.....Irsay said in his press conference, it's the end of an era and the start of a new one. My gut is starting to feel that Peyton may be gone. I hope my gut's wrong.

[Nadine]

I think some people are seeing drama where there is none

I see no disharmony between manning and the polians. Opposite actually

Irsay was very clear that he gives his GM a wide berth. He does not micromanage. As such, of course he is not going to say, in advance you have to have this QB and this Coach.

He said he looks for excellent counsel, and his focus now is on finding the best out there to add to management staff

References to rebuilding are appropriate because the move to a new GM is HUGE. This is a significant change for the whole organization.

[Balzer40]

If you would have asked me yesterday morning, I would have said that Irsay wanted Manning and Luck, but after his presser last night and sleeping on it for a night, I am leaning in a different direction. I could be completely wrong, but if you listened to the phrases that Irsay said, it sounded like a man who was ready to move on without Manning.

When talking about Mannings injury, he said something like(and im paraphrasing here) you have to ask yourself if its going to be safe for him to get back onto the field, is he healthy enough to resume his career.

He also said several times about moving on into new era's and making decisions that might upset people and he wasn't interested in winning a popularity contest.

Said he wasn't interested in just getting back to a record of 9-7 or 10- 6, but was more interested in the long term success of the franchise.

Those things just suggest to me that he may be thinking about moving on with a new franchise QB and building for the future.

[oldunclemark]

If you would have asked me yesterday morning, I would have said that Irsay wanted Manning and Luck, but after his presser last night and sleeping on it for a night, I am leaning in a different direction. I could be completely wrong, but if you listened to the phrases that Irsay said, it sounded like a man who was ready to move on without Manning.

When talking about Mannings injury, he said something like(and im paraphrasing here) you have to ask yourself if its going to be safe for him to get back onto the field, is he healthy enough to resume his career.

He also said several times about moving on into new era's and making decisions that might upset people and he wasn't interested in winning a popularity contest.

Said he wasn't interested in just getting back to a record of 9-7 or 10- 6, but was more interested in the long term success of the franchise.

Those things just suggest to me that he may be thinking about moving on with a new franchise QB and building for the future.

...The larger factor thought was Bill Polian....despite his top flight credentials and resume

Simply isnt well-liked..apparently not by anyone connected with the Colts......

he's very difficult....something we've all said....and when success fades...

That eventually comes back to bite you..

[Hoosier]

When talking about Mannings injury, he said something like(and im paraphrasing here) you have to ask yourself if its going to be safe for him to get back onto the field, is he healthy enough to resume his career.

Comments like this make me wonder if there isn't something they know about Manning's injury/recovery that they're not letting everyone in on.

[mouthofsouth]

Again due to his contract trading Peyton Manning is nearly impossiable. If Manning isn't going to be here next year we will have to release him and get nothing for him.

Trading Manning would certainly not be impossible if Manning agrees. He could negotiate with some other team, and agree to allow the Colts to cut him and then sign with the other team. He may be agreeable if the Colts hire a coach he does not believe he can work with, etc. He may take a cut in what they owe him in order to move. This is all conjecture. I still stand behind my statement that he is a Colt for life.

[husker61]

I don't think it will be this off-season but Irsay has said several times he will turn the ownership over the team over to his daughters in a few years and had hinted at the end of Peyton Manning's career as the target date. Now with that said I think that was the target date for a lot of things but I think today really changed a lot of those plans.

i will believe it when i see it. it's easy say you are going to give up control, but just like top athletes, they can't just walk away until they have to. i don't doubt there will be some kind of paperwork done as part of his financial planning, but actual control is a different story.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Bill Polian semi-retired and got his son hired as general manager which is nepotism. Irsay went along with it for the time being. However, Irsay has since gotten a strong inkling that the son is not as good as his father, so the future of the Colts cannot be with Polian Jr. as general manager. Bill, on the other hand, is trying to do what any father would: guarantee his son a cushy and secure future.

The Polians did not like the fact that Irsay is so attached to Manning that he has plans to keep his stellar qb in the organization even after he retires from quarterbacking. This strongly implies a situation somewhat like Elway and the Broncos. The Polians saw this as meaning that Polian Jr.'s position with the Colts may soon be in jeopardy.

So the Polians made a power play to oust Manning and draft Luck, hoping to get rid of the threat to the Polians' future with the Colts. It did not work. They had a serious fight with Irsay over it resulting in the ousting of the Polians.

Bill Polian gave hints of how he feels about Manning on his radio show, did he not? And I know only what I have read. I do not live in the Indy area, so I cannot hear the show. But he made negative remarks about Peyton's physical condition which Peyton said were not true. This was in the article I read on Polians' firing.

Most of what I have written here is just my putting two and two together on the matter. (Woman's intuition?}

This is the single best post i've ever read on here.You're exactly right!I got goosebumps just by reading it.

[pacolts56]

i will believe it when i see it. it's easy say you are going to give up control, but just like top athletes, they can't just walk away until they have to. i don't doubt there will be some kind of paperwork done as part of his financial planning, but actual control is a different story.

I disagree.....and I think the ownership transfer to his daughter will factor into the new GM hire and had a considerable amount of weight in the firing of the Polians.

Bill Polian was a very successful Pres/GM who happened to have an abrasive personality and management style but was hired when Irsay's girls were young children. Chris Polian, on the other hand, was an unproven GM who reportedly had a big hand in orchestrating the exit of some more seasoned player personnel folks over the years as he moved up the ranks. And Chris I'm sure had designs on a long stay.

That's not unheard of in a business setting....but it's perhaps not the environment Irsay would want as part of the ownership hand off to his daughter either.

I wouldn't.

[oldunclemark]

I disagree.....and I think the ownership transfer to his daughter will factor into the new GM hire and had a considerable amount of weight in the firing of the Polians.

Bill Polian was a very successful Pres/GM who happened to have an abrasive personality and management style but was hired when Irsay's girls were young children. Chris Polian, on the other hand, was an unproven GM who reportedly had a big hand in orchestrating the exit of some more seasoned player personnel folks over the years as he moved up the ranks. And Chris I'm sure had designs on a long stay.

That's not unheard of in a business setting....but it's perhaps not the environment Irsay would want as part of the ownership hand off to his daughter either.

I wouldn't.

That's what a lot of people..especialy nationally are missing Paco..

This isnt about Manning or drafting Andrew Luck..

So many insiders are saying that the Polians are just verty difficult to work with/for and Irsay wanted a different atmopshere around the team.

That's why both Polians had to go...

2-14 was a chance fire them and Irsay knows we wont be 2-14 in 2012...an it would be MUCH more difficult to fire the GM of a playoff team.

[Dan]

Comments like this make me wonder if there isn't something they know about Manning's injury/recovery that they're not letting everyone in on.

Of course there is. Most people on here think "Oh yeah major reconstructive surgery to the back and spinal area, he'll come back stronger than ever!!!" Possibly, but probably not. Surgery that massive is going to have an impact on the rest of his career and probably the rest of his life. I'd be very surprised if his recovery was going perfectly to plan.

[oldunclemark]

Of course there is. Most people on here think "Oh yeah major reconstructive surgery to the back and spinal area, he'll come back stronger than ever!!!" Possibly, but probably not. Surgery that massive is going to have an impact on the rest of his career and probably the rest of his life. I'd be very surprised if his recovery was going perfectly to plan.

So you think Manning's lying about his progress and his throwing>?

[Dan]

So you think Manning's lying about his progress and his throwing>?

Not necessarily. I'm saying there's no way to know just how well he's progressing and whether he'll ever be back to 100% fitness because there's a lot to his recovery that we don't know or understand. I'm saying don't take anything for given in a recovery from a surgery this big.

[oldunclemark]

Not necessarily. I'm saying there's no way to know just how well he's progressing and whether he'll ever be back to 100% fitness because there's a lot to his recovery that we don't know or understand. I'm saying don't take anything for given in a recovery from a surgery this big.

Think about it again..

I think the chance that he cant ever play again..has passed...His neck did heal and solidify within the 3-month period the surgert suggested...

(If he's telling us the truth)

We dont know how good he'll be but we cant know until August...

..........there is no reason to assume he wont get that chance...

He cant be traded with a $28 mil tab....and he wont be released if there a chance he'll return to form...

We wont know until August

[Dan]

Think about it again..

I think the chance that he cant ever play again..has passed...His neck did heal and solidify within the 3-month period the surgert suggested...

(If he's telling us the truth)

We dont know how good he'll be but we cant know until August...

..........there is no reason to assume he wont get that chance...

He cant be traded with a $28 mil tab....and he wont be released if there a chance he'll return to form...

We wont know until August

Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want to do is get rid of him. I just think it's certainly not a given that we'll be seeing him taking snaps next season. He probably will be, but even so there's no sure way of knowing he's going to still be fine. A lot of people think that this surgery has a 100% chance of healing him up and making him stronger than ever even though Irsay has said himself in the last couple of days that he's still uncertain on Manning's future. Rest assured I want him to get better just as much as every other Colts fan.

[hawkeyes]

If Irsay trades Manning and he has another 3-4 great years, while the Colts have 3-4 losing seasons - he might as well have plans to move to LA.

[JoKeR]

I think they were on the same page about Luck and Manning, that issue is not as complicated as the media would like it to be.

I think the firing had to do nepotism, the amount of power the Polians had over coaching decisions, and possibly some questionable personnel decisions.

[oldunclemark]

If Irsay trades Manning and he has another 3-4 great years, while the Colts have 3-4 losing seasons - he might as well have plans to move to LA.

Exactly right..If Irsay ships Manning out of town..he better be on the next bus right behind him...

There is no real reason to trade Peyton Manning...unless you are a genius and a soothsayer and can see the future...

..and we just fired our genius...

[mouthofsouth]

When Peyton can no longer play, he will sit down with Irsay and work out what his role will continue to be in the organization. Peyton and Ashley will own a home in Indy for the rest of their lives, and their children will be raised there. Write that in your book. And I am no talking head.

[GoColts8818]

Trading Manning would certainly not be impossible if Manning agrees. He could negotiate with some other team, and agree to allow the Colts to cut him and then sign with the other team. He may be agreeable if the Colts hire a coach he does not believe he can work with, etc. He may take a cut in what they owe him in order to move. This is all conjecture. I still stand behind my statement that he is a Colt for life.

You can't go negotiate with another team while you are under contract to another that's called tampering and can get the team that does it in big trouble.

The only way the Colts could trade Manning is if he agrees to push his roster bonus back which people have pointed out many times is not in his best interest it would be doing a team who trying to move you a favor which doesn't make a lot of sense unless Manning has a major change of heart and decides he wants out of here, which is a late as of Sunday did not seem to be the case. With that said it would be an understatement to say the situation has changed majorly since Sunday but I don't think it's changed enough to make Manning want to leave.

However if you are the new GM do you really want your first major move here to be trading a healthy (because if he's not no team will want him and yes teams are going to do their homework on Manning) Peyton Manning, a guy who is not only the face of this franchise but is the face of the NFL and who is almost worshiped by this fan base? Talk about putting a lot of presure not only on yourself but on Andrew Luck. If he's not Peyton Manning from day one and Peyton is off being well Peyton Manning for some other team this fan base will turn on that new GM and Andrew Luck before you can blink.

Also, this all assuming too that Jim Irsay has a change of heart and decides he wants to trade Peyton Manning as well. If he stll says no he wants Manning here next year as he has gone on record as of saying it doesn't matter what the new GM or Peyton will want in that regard. Peyton will be a Colt. With that said, after yesterday all bets are off and anything is possiable going forward but I still think it's extremly unlikely you see Peyton Manning traded. If he's not here next year it will be bcause he was released.

[GoColts8818]

When Peyton can no longer play, he will sit down with Irsay and work out what his role will continue to be in the organization. Peyton and Ashley will own a home in Indy for the rest of their lives, and their children will be raised there. Write that in your book. And I am no talking head.

Or he can do what Dungy did and go work in the media. Just because Manning lives here doesn't mean Manning will keep working for the Colts when he retires. The only other player the city of Indianapolis have had that was close to Peyton Manning was Reggie Miller who lived here. He didn't go to work for the Pacers when he retired. Peyton is going to do whatever he wants to do when he retires and with his name power odds are it will be something national if he wants to do TV. If he wants to do coaching and the Colts can hire him as a QB coach or something to start with hey wonderful but odds are at some point even if they do hire him as a coach he will leave to go coach some place else rather it be because he was fired or because he got a chance at another job. Who knows maybe Peyton will just retire and enjoy his family and not go into teaching or broadcasting, I think that's unlikly but you never know.

As for living here, well let's just Indianapolis could do far worse than having the Manning family as it's reisdents. I do agree with you that he will probably always live here, regardless of what he does after football. I think Indianapolis will be "home" unless of course he goes into coaching and even then he'll have some kinda tie to Indy. That's why he gave all the money to the hospital because that his way of showing this is his home now.