Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[ViriLudant]

Im too busy trying to make a living to read that nonsense. The ball ball took them into the bathroom and let a little air out of the balls. This was because Brady was furious over the inflated balls at the Jet game. He probably said something like "I never want to throw balls like that again and it's your job to see to that." They took air out of footballs .. it's obvious. I'm way too busy to read through all that crap.

Thanks for proving my earlier post. 

Once again, the Ideal Gas Law prices that air wasn't taken out of the balls.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Nadine

[ViriLudant]

Some of you need to read this :

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/index.html

Oh, and about the author, since so many of you refuse to read credible sources :

John M. Dowd served as Special Counsel to three commissioners of Major League Baseball in the investigations of Pete Rose, George Steinbrenner, and others. As a federal prosecutor, he conducted the internal investigation of the FBI and of Congressman Dan Flood of Pennsylvania. He is also the author of is the author of www.DeflategateFacts.com. The views expressed are his own.

[ColtRider]

Some of you need to read this :

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/index.html

Oh, and about the author, since so many of you refuse to read credible sources :

John M. Dowd served as Special Counsel to three commissioners of Major League Baseball in the investigations of Pete Rose, George Steinbrenner, and others. As a federal prosecutor, he conducted the internal investigation of the FBI and of Congressman Dan Flood of Pennsylvania. He is also the author of is the author of www.DeflategateFacts.com. The views expressed are his own.

You mean the John Dowd that has now accused Pete Rose of molesting 12-14 year old girls? After 20 + years after? Really? All of a sudden he has a guilty conscience of not reporting this to authorities back then? Ridiculous.

[Bad Morty]

Some of you need to read this :

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/index.html

Oh, and about the author, since so many of you refuse to read credible sources :

John M. Dowd served as Special Counsel to three commissioners of Major League Baseball in the investigations of Pete Rose, George Steinbrenner, and others. As a federal prosecutor, he conducted the internal investigation of the FBI and of Congressman Dan Flood of Pennsylvania. He is also the author of is the author of www.DeflategateFacts.com. The views expressed are his own.

 

The public commentary has done a complete 180 on this. Goodell's bungling and lying has changed the narrative completely.

[dw49]

Thanks for proving my earlier post. You have no clue about this situation.

Once again, the Ideal Gas Law prices that air wasn't taken out of the balls.

 

 

zzzzzzzzzz  The Ideal Gas Law did not price or prove anything of the sort. 

[Bad Morty]

zzzzzzzzzz  The Ideal Gas Law did not price or prove anything of the sort. 

 

Even if you believe the numbers the NFL provided (and there seems to be less reason to believe those numbers by the day), it's still inconclusive as to whether or not the halftime measurements as compared to the estimated beginning measurements conclusively prove tampering...if you believe there was tampering and you believe the NFL numbers, you are still looking at an inconsequential amount of air being let out. This case is falling apart.

[dw49]

Even if you believe the numbers the NFL provided (and there seems to be less reason to believe those numbers by the day), it's still inconclusive as to whether or not the halftime measurements as compared to the estimated beginning measurements conclusively prove tampering...if you believe there was tampering and you believe the NFL numbers, you are still looking at an inconsequential amount of air being let out. This case is falling apart.

 

 

What I said was there is no "proof" as some fabricator stated.

[Bubbz]

Thanks for proving my earlier post. You have no clue about this situation.

Once again, the Ideal Gas Law prices that air wasn't taken out of the balls.

Yes it was, do the math for yourself. You look foolish quoting the ideAl gas law when u know next to nothing about it or how to put it into application

[ColtsBlueFL]

And yet we have halftime ball measurements that aren't low enough to make any definitive claim that the balls were tampered with at all...and that's taking the NFL's word for it that Coleman actually gauged those balls at the beginning of the game and remembers that they were all around 12.5...in light of all the other things that have come to light regarding the NFL's misconduct in this affair, I am back to wondering how we can just take their word for it that Coleman actually stuck a gauge in all these balls pre-game versus just feeling them. The NFL doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this rather important "take our word for it - he gauged them" point.

 

I ran calculations and determined Patriots balls were influenced by more than ambient air temps here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

I determine there was indeed hanky panky somewhere along the line... based upon my tests and results in the above link.  Until some one shows me ultimate proof otherwise, I'm going on my own investigation and conclusions. AEI hasn't looked at my tests and tried to Jerry-rig an alternative result...  LOL!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Thanks for proving my earlier post. *

Once again, the Ideal Gas Law prices that air wasn't taken out of the balls.

 

 

Wrong!

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

Keep trying and I'll keep replying...

 

Oh, and how about that McNally guy putting brand new (K) balls into play vs. the Ravens and also trying to do the same against the Colts...  dirty cheater....  just like his boss....

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/39306-deflategate-central-one-thread-merged-moderated/page-44?p=1139835#entry1139835

[RockThatBlue]

I didn't think it could be possible but Goodell actually looks worse in this mess than he did with Ray Rice.

No, he doesn't.

[RockThatBlue]

You are delusional as I said

Delusional is being kind.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I didn't think it could be possible but Goodell actually looks worse in this mess than he did with Ray Rice.

 

No the NFL looks worse with Greg Hardy than it does Ray Rice.  Who are you kidding? Rice served time and went through courses etc to right his ship. Never denied his situation, just made amends ans took steps to make it better.  He has no job!!!

 

Hardy has taken no responsibility for his crime, paid peeps off and other hidden crap, denied culpability, has taken no steps to be a better man... and gets hired by Jerry Jones.  This NFL league really does have problems.

 

I suppose according to amfootball-

 

Ray Rice, how NOT to handle Domestic Violence cases!!  Still does not have an NFL job...

 

Greg Hardy - How to handle domestic violence cases... Does have an NFL job...

 

The NFL is totally screwed... people are going to equate it to fake wrestling soon...

[SteelCityColt]

Wrong!

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

Keep trying and I'll keep replying...

Oh, and how about that McNally guy putting brand new (K) balls into play vs. the Ravens and also trying to do the same against the Colts... dirty cheater.... just like his boss....

http://forums.colts.com/topic/39306-deflategate-central-one-thread-merged-moderated/page-44?p=1139835#entry1139835

The issue is he won't acknowledge your reply and carry on spouting things that just patently aren't true... Delusional indeed.

[amfootball]

No the NFL looks worse with Greg Hardy than it does Ray Rice.  Who are you kidding?Rice served tine and went through courses etc to right his ship. Never denied his situation, just made amends ans took steps to make it better.  He has no job!!!

 

Hardy has taken no responsibility for his crime, paid peeps off and other hidden crap, denied culpability, taken no steps to be a better man... and gets hired by Jerruh Jones.  This NFL league really does have problems.

 

I suppose according to amfootball-

 

Ray Rice, how NOT to handle Domestic Violence cases!!  Still does not have an NFL job...

 

Greg Hardy - How to handle domestic violence cases... Does have an NFL job...

 

The NFL is totally screwed... people are going to equate it to fake wrestling soon...

I was talking about how Roger has looked. He looked maybe the worst a commish ever could look in Rice. First the two games which was a joke and then the lying saying the NFL never saw the second tape. Then the lying about his conversation with Rice at the court trial which helped over turn his suspension and then of course the self investigation. How he handled that situation had large sponsors threatening to pull out. It was that bad.

 

Although to some extent I agree, he has looked like a boob pretty much solidly for the last year + in just about every disciplinary matter. But with Brady he just looks vindictive, incompetent as usual and of course a liar too which is par for the course with him.

[amfootball]

Considering I haven't read through a whole book in about 25 years , 100 pages is asking too much. I don't know why I can't stay focussed on reading material.. maybe I'm AD ? Anyway , I really don't care a whole lot about how this ends up. I think he more than likely did it but on the other hand the punishment IMO was a bit harsh... 

That is fine but if you are going to continue to comment on this issue than it will reflect poorly as that appeals transcript is the most important piece of information that has surfaced in this whole situation in terms of knowing exactly what was said by all parties and then how Rodger crafted (lied) his appeals award letter based on it. Really, Berman making that public was a gift from heaven. Never has the NFL been undressed so poorly. I really suggest reading Vincent's testimony for a few laughs about the incompetence of this league. Oh and Kessler is worth every single dime the PA pays him.

[amfootball]

Some of you need to read this :

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/07/opinions/dowd-nfl-brady-investigation/index.html

Oh, and about the author, since so many of you refuse to read credible sources :

John M. Dowd served as Special Counsel to three commissioners of Major League Baseball in the investigations of Pete Rose, George Steinbrenner, and others. As a federal prosecutor, he conducted the internal investigation of the FBI and of Congressman Dan Flood of Pennsylvania. He is also the author of is the author of www.DeflategateFacts.com. The views expressed are his own.

Thanks for posting that was a great piece from someone with experience in investigations of this level. I though this comment from him was especially noteworthy:

 

"But when sports authorities don't enforce their own rules with transparency and fairness, the integrity of the game is equally compromised. What's happening today with the NFL undermines the concepts of integrity and fairness in the application of the rules and threatens to damage football's credibility for years to come."

 

For all the talk about protecting the integrity of the game, the NFL has violated the most. I do hope the owners are reading this. There is an owners meeting this Tuesday, the day before Brady and Goodell meet in court. Would love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

[Bad Morty]

I ran calculations and determined Patriots balls were influenced by more than ambient air temps here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

I determine there was indeed hanky panky somewhere along the line... based upon my tests and results in the above link.  Until some one shows me ultimate proof otherwise, I'm going on my own investigation and conclusions. AEI hasn't looked at my tests and tried to Jerry-rig an alternative result...  LOL!

yep...I read your work and gave you kudos for doing it. But no matter how much work you put into it, you are still at the mercy of accepting the NFL's claims that Coleman actually gauge-checked all of the Pats footballs and that they were all "around 12.5" based on his recollection. The NFL and Goodell have now proven definitively that they are willing to lie to advance this case they are trying to make. Not a single witness SAW Coleman actually gauge the balls...so we are left to just take the NFL's word that it happened, even though we know that refs routinely gave the pre-game ball check little attention, often simply feeling the balls without gauging them. I don't accept the NFL's word that these balls were carefully measured pre-game to the extent that we can then draw any scientific conclusions on the change in air pressure from pre-game to half time.

[Bad Morty]

aaaaand now we have the NFL filing a court brief and acknowledging that the Wells report WASN'T independent...as they told Brady and the rest of us over and over and over again. How can anyone take this organization seriously?

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/07/nfl-nflpa-legal-briefs-tom-brady-suspension-deflategate-patriots-roger-goodell

[ViriLudant]

The tides are turning in favor of Brady:

http://www.deflategatefacts.com/blog/2015/8/7/the-tide-is-turning-on-roger-goodell

[bababooey]

Interesting how not a word of that guy's testimony appears in the Wells report despite him being interviewed 4 times by Wells, isn't it? I wonder why Wells left his testimony out?

Because Wells screwed up by not noticing the Deflator texts until they already interviewed him. He should have found it earlier but didn't, so when he tried to conduct a follow up the Patriots wouldn't allow it despite Wells saying he would drive to the guys office or meet him anywhere.

[bababooey]

Thanks for proving my earlier post.

Once again, the Ideal Gas Law prices that air wasn't taken out of the balls.

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/#entry1126868

You were saying? Or since it's not a college in Boston you won't listen. (Aside- everyone I know that went to MIT, NW, BC, BU, Bentley, etc aren't from Boston. The people I've met that are actually from the area are usually at RIC, UMass, URI, Salve.

[ColtsBlueFL]

yep...I read your work and gave you kudos for doing it. But no matter how much work you put into it, you are still at the mercy of accepting the NFL's claims that Coleman actually gauge-checked all of the Pats footballs and that they were all "around 12.5" based on his recollection. The NFL and Goodell have now proven definitively that they are willing to lie to advance this case they are trying to make. Not a single witness SAW Coleman actually gauge the balls...so we are left to just take the NFL's word that it happened, even though we know that refs routinely gave the pre-game ball check little attention, often simply feeling the balls without gauging them. I don't accept the NFL's word that these balls were carefully measured pre-game to the extent that we can then draw any scientific conclusions on the change in air pressure from pre-game to half time.

 

Is not 12.5 a reasonable assumption, providing-

 

1. It is where Tom Brady is on record saying he prefers it

2.  It is the NFL minimum standard

3. Anderson testified he did it, and two league personnel (D.B. is VP of Officiating) reminded him to be sure it was done (but he says he wasn't concerned with the warnings, he does do them always anyway)

 

Here is the relevant part, pre-game, that occurred after the Grigson/Sullivan email-

 

"Kensil also forwarded Grigson‟s email to Dean Blandino and Alberto Riveron, both senior members of the NFL Officiating Department, with the message “see below.” Both Riveron and Blandino decided that they would raise the issue with Walt Anderson, who had been assigned as the referee for the game.

Anderson‟s first formal responsibility with respect to the AFC Championship Game was a routine status call with Dean Blandino on Saturday afternoon. Both Anderson and Blandino recall that their primary topic of discussion was the unusual substitution issue that had arisen during the Patriots playoff game against the Ravens the prior weekend. Blandino also reported that during the call he mentioned that the Colts had raised certain concerns about playing at Gillette Stadium. Although Grigson‟s email was not the focus of the conversation, and may not have been specifically referenced, Blandino reminded Anderson to ensure that proper protocols concerning the footballs were followed.

At some point on Sunday morning, Anderson also had a brief conversation with Alberto Riveron. Without explaining the concerns raised by the Colts in detail, Riveron mentioned that concerns had been raised about the game balls, and that Anderson should be sure to follow proper pre-game procedures. Riveron recalls that Anderson responded that he had things covered and may have mentioned that he had already discussed the issue with Blandino. When interviewed, Anderson said that the issue had been raised with him, but that he had not been overly concerned because he knew that he would check the footballs himself prior to the game."

 

 

If Anderson did not check/set the Patriots balls as directed by both Blandino, and Riveron, then are you claiming that there is a possibility the Pats balls were submitted under the legal limit, and it was not caught in the pre-game check? Even though Anderson was instructed at two different times to be sure they were at at least 12.5 psi? I don't know what you are getting at here, or what psi you believe they could be at that my tests would no longer provide for the possibility that more that temperature drop was involved.

 

Greg Yette (the Junior Alternate official and Kicking Ball coordinator for the AFCCG) prepped the balls along with Anderson.  It is reported 2 Patriots balls were under inflated, and Yette pumped those 2 up, and Anderson re-gauged those and let air out until they reached 12.5, based upon readings from the other 10 balls that were measured.  So your assumption is Walt Anderson also lied and disregarded two directives to make sure the Balls were at the proper pre game levels allowed.  I tend to beleive the report, as it is also known around the league how regimented Anderson was in every pre-game, not just playoffs.

 

But I'd like to hear your theory on just what psi level the PATS balls were at pre-game.  They had to be at something...

[Bad Morty]

Is not 12.5 a reasonable assumption, providing-

 

1. It is where Tom Brady is on record saying he prefers it

2.  It is the NFL minimum standard

3. Anderson testified he did it, and two league personnel (D.B. is VP of Officiating) reminded him to be sure it was done (but he says he wasn't concerned with the warnings, he does do them always anyway)

 

Here is the relevant part, pre-game, that occurred after the Grigson/Sullivan email-

 

"Kensil also forwarded Grigson‟s email to Dean Blandino and Alberto Riveron, both senior members of the NFL Officiating Department, with the message “see below.” Both Riveron and Blandino decided that they would raise the issue with Walt Anderson, who had been assigned as the referee for the game.

Anderson‟s first formal responsibility with respect to the AFC Championship Game was a routine status call with Dean Blandino on Saturday afternoon. Both Anderson and Blandino recall that their primary topic of discussion was the unusual substitution issue that had arisen during the Patriots playoff game against the Ravens the prior weekend. Blandino also reported that during the call he mentioned that the Colts had raised certain concerns about playing at Gillette Stadium. Although Grigson‟s email was not the focus of the conversation, and may not have been specifically referenced, Blandino reminded Anderson to ensure that proper protocols concerning the footballs were followed.

At some point on Sunday morning, Anderson also had a brief conversation with Alberto Riveron. Without explaining the concerns raised by the Colts in detail, Riveron mentioned that concerns had been raised about the game balls, and that Anderson should be sure to follow proper pre-game procedures. Riveron recalls that Anderson responded that he had things covered and may have mentioned that he had already discussed the issue with Blandino. When interviewed, Anderson said that the issue had been raised with him, but that he had not been overly concerned because he knew that he would check the footballs himself prior to the game."

 

 

If Anderson did not check/set the Patriots balls as directed by both Blandino, and Riveron, then are you claiming that there is a possibility the Pats balls were submitted under the legal limit, and it was not caught in the pre-game check? Even though Anderson was instructed at two different times to be sure they were at at least 12.5 psi? I don't know what you are getting at here, or what psi you believe they could be at that my tests would no longer provide for the possibility that more that temperature drop was involved.

 

Greg Yette (the Junior Alternate official and Kicking Ball coordinator for the AFCCG) prepped the balls along with Anderson.  It is reported 2 Patriots balls were under inflated, and Yette pumped those 2 up, and Anderson re-gauged those and let air out until they reached 12.5, based upon readings from the other 10 balls that were measured.  So your assumption is Walt Anderson also lied and disregarded two directives to make sure the Balls were at the proper pre game levels allowed.  I tend to beleive the report, as it is also known around the league how regimented Anderson was in every pre-game, not just playoffs.

 

But I'd like to hear your theory on just what psi level the PATS balls were at pre-game.  They had to be at something...

I understand all that you are saying...however we are talking about fractions of a psi in pressure making a big difference as to whether or not one can conclude that the balls were tampered with after the refs checked them (which is a violation) or not. We've already seen that gauges can be calibrated very differently. When a team submits balls at 12.5 PSI to the refs for checking, that 12.5 reading came (presumably) from a gauge that the team controls. The ref will have a different gauge (again assuming that they actually use a gauge to check the balls). So a team could submit a 12.5 ball that the ref might read as a 12.1 ball on the ref's gauge...or conversely a team might try to submit a ball that they gauge at 12.1 which the ref's gauge reads as 12.5 and so he allows it to be put into play.  

 

All of this is to say that your analysis relies on the presumption that the Pats balls all started at 12.5 PSI. My guess is that if you were to plug a starting point of 12.0 into your equation, your conclusions would change, am I right? My point is that for a number of reasons I now don't take the NFL's word on this, not the least of which is their proven track record of dishonesty when it comes to this and other disciplinary actions they've taken in recent years. They sold the public originally on the notion that even though the refs didn't bother recording the pressure readings pre-game that the refs did follow protocol, used a gauge, and made sure every ball was 12.5. That was a critical starting point for their witch hunt...if it were concluded that Coleman either didn't bother to gauge the balls (or gauge ALL of the balls) and just relied on feeling them, then this case dies right there. I think people all too willingly bought into the idea that the NFL was trust-worthy here. Hell - Coleman couldn't even apparently keep track of where the balls were seeing as McNally took them...that alone flies in the face of the story line that has him prioritizing the control of the balls and meticulously following protocol regarding gauging and checking each and every ball. We're being sold a lie by the NFL...more and more national analysts are beginning to see this now. The NFL and Goodell in particular are dirty.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I understand all that you are saying...however we are talking about fractions of a psi in pressure making a big difference as to whether or not one can conclude that the balls were tampered with after the refs checked them (which is a violation) or not. We've already seen that gauges can be calibrated very differently. When a team submits balls at 12.5 PSI to the refs for checking, that 12.5 reading came (presumably) from a gauge that the team controls. The ref will have a different gauge (again assuming that they actually use a gauge to check the balls). So a team could submit a 12.5 ball that the ref might read as a 12.1 ball on the ref's gauge...or conversely a team might try to submit a ball that they gauge at 12.1 which the ref's gauge reads as 12.5 and so he allows it to be put into play.  

 

All of this is to say that your analysis relies on the presumption that the Pats balls all started at 12.5 PSI. My guess is that if you were to plug a starting point of 12.0 into your equation, your conclusions would change, am I right? My point is that for a number of reasons I now don't take the NFL's word on this, not the least of which is their proven track record of dishonesty when it comes to this and other disciplinary actions they've taken in recent years. They sold the public originally on the notion that even though the refs didn't bother recording the pressure readings pre-game that the refs did follow protocol, used a gauge, and made sure every ball was 12.5. That was a critical starting point for their witch hunt...if it were concluded that Coleman either didn't bother to gauge the balls (or gauge ALL of the balls) and just relied on feeling them, then this case dies right there. I think people all too willingly bought into the idea that the NFL was trust-worthy here. Hell - Coleman couldn't even apparently keep track of where the balls were seeing as McNally took them...that alone flies in the face of the story line that has him prioritizing the control of the balls and meticulously following protocol regarding gauging and checking each and every ball. We're being sold a lie by the NFL...more and more national analysts are beginning to see this now. The NFL and Goodell in particular are dirty.

 

Got it.  Everyone else in the NFL is lying, from other teams coaches/owners to Refs and officials to all  League Front office personnel.  All trying to frame 'the Tom Brady'. {Sigh}

 

The Wells report is full of liars then.  Intricate stories to frame Brady, like more from pre-game ball prep-

 

"Yette used the air pump provided by the Patriots to inflate those (2 under inflated) footballs, explaining that he “purposefully overshot” the range (because it is hard to be precise when adding air), and then gave the footballs back to Anderson, who used the air release valve on his gauge to reduce the pressure down to 12.5 psi. According to Anderson, when tested, most of the Colts footballs measured 13.0 or 13.1 psi.

NFL game officials are not required to, and do not as a matter of standard practice, record in writing the pressure measurements taken during their pre-game inspections of game balls. We credit Anderson‟s recollection of the pre-game measurements taken on the day of the AFC Championship Game based on both the level of confidence Anderson expressed in his recollection and the consistency of his recollection with information provided by each of the Patriots and Colts regarding their target inflation levels. As described above, Jastremski told us that he aimed to set the Patriots footballs at 12.6 psi, and Brady stated that he had asked for the footballs to be set at 12.5 psi. Similarly, Sean Sullivan of the Colts explained that 13.0 psi is typically—and was on the day of the AFC Championship Game—targeted by the Colts when inflating game balls, although he said that the Colts consider any pressure within a range of 12.9 to 13.05 psi to be acceptable."

 

You claim there's no smoking gun to implicate Brady.  Yet you have no smoking gun that these events didn't take place as reported.  Double standard.

 

Yes, 12.0 psi  would change the calculations (I'm not doing it, no proof of them being there), notably if it was assumed they were 12.5 when they really were not. But also suggests Tom really does like an illegally under inflated ball, and Jastremski / McNally try to sneak them into the games, and that Jastremski lied in the Wells report above as well.

 

And Anderson's (not Coleman) lower reading gauge closely matched what Sullivan and Jastremski measured on their own gauges (to the psi reported above by each) before submitting their balls, and the calibrated gauge introduced at halftime matched the lower reading gauge as well.  There's no way the NFL concocted this whole story just to give Brady a 4 game suspension...  I'm not buying it at all.  Sorry.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Hell - Coleman couldn't even apparently keep track of where the balls were seeing as McNally took them...that alone flies in the face of the story line that has him prioritizing the control of the balls and meticulously following protocol regarding gauging and checking each and every ball. We're being sold a lie by the NFL...more and more national analysts are beginning to see this now. The NFL and Goodell in particular are dirty.

 

It is covered on pages 54-56 (on the document) here-

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2073728-ted-wells-report-deflategate.html

 

All the officials were in the sitting room watching the end of the NFCCG, McNally had been in there too, sitting on a trubnk with the bags of balls nearby.  Once the NFC games was concluding, all of the league and ref officials were leaving to perform their functions.  When it got down to the last 4 refs, they then noticed the balls, and McNally were not there to be escorted to the field.  McNally had taken them out alone during the ruckus that was the delayed conclusion of the NFCCG.  And he knew better as well.

[Bad Morty]

 

 

You claim there's no smoking gun to implicate Brady.  Yet you have no smoking gun that these events didn't take place as reported.  Double standard.

 

 

A) The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused

 

B) I have every bit as much circumstantial evidence to support the theory that the NFL isn't being completely honest about this as you do to suggest that Brady was involved in a plot to let 0.2 or 0.3 PSI out of game balls after they were checked. You mockingly laid out a scenario in your reply involving multiple people being in on the NFL's lie. Aside from that not being a good comparison as there were very few people who could say definitively what the pregame testing was or wasn't, nonetheless your scenario sounds awfully similar to the NFL's response to the Ray Rice video fiasco...you know - the one where not a single person in the NFL offices ever saw the video that was easily obtained by an entertainment journalism outfit.

 

Whether you like it or not, the Goodell era is littered with sketchiness that should make any rational person without an obvious anti-Patriots agenda call into question their version of what went on...and that seems to be what's happening. This "scandal" is now left to fans on message boards. The national pundits are off this ship.

[ColtRider]

Is not 12.5 a reasonable assumption, providing-

 

1. It is where Tom Brady is on record saying he prefers it

2.  It is the NFL minimum standard

3. Anderson testified he did it, and two league personnel (D.B. is VP of Officiating) reminded him to be sure it was done (but he says he wasn't concerned with the warnings, he does do them always anyway)

 

Here is the relevant part, pre-game, that occurred after the Grigson/Sullivan email-

 

"Kensil also forwarded Grigson‟s email to Dean Blandino and Alberto Riveron, both senior members of the NFL Officiating Department, with the message “see below.” Both Riveron and Blandino decided that they would raise the issue with Walt Anderson, who had been assigned as the referee for the game.

Anderson‟s first formal responsibility with respect to the AFC Championship Game was a routine status call with Dean Blandino on Saturday afternoon. Both Anderson and Blandino recall that their primary topic of discussion was the unusual substitution issue that had arisen during the Patriots playoff game against the Ravens the prior weekend. Blandino also reported that during the call he mentioned that the Colts had raised certain concerns about playing at Gillette Stadium. Although Grigson‟s email was not the focus of the conversation, and may not have been specifically referenced, Blandino reminded Anderson to ensure that proper protocols concerning the footballs were followed.

At some point on Sunday morning, Anderson also had a brief conversation with Alberto Riveron. Without explaining the concerns raised by the Colts in detail, Riveron mentioned that concerns had been raised about the game balls, and that Anderson should be sure to follow proper pre-game procedures. Riveron recalls that Anderson responded that he had things covered and may have mentioned that he had already discussed the issue with Blandino. When interviewed, Anderson said that the issue had been raised with him, but that he had not been overly concerned because he knew that he would check the footballs himself prior to the game."

 

 

If Anderson did not check/set the Patriots balls as directed by both Blandino, and Riveron, then are you claiming that there is a possibility the Pats balls were submitted under the legal limit, and it was not caught in the pre-game check? Even though Anderson was instructed at two different times to be sure they were at at least 12.5 psi? I don't know what you are getting at here, or what psi you believe they could be at that my tests would no longer provide for the possibility that more that temperature drop was involved.

 

Greg Yette (the Junior Alternate official and Kicking Ball coordinator for the AFCCG) prepped the balls along with Anderson.  It is reported 2 Patriots balls were under inflated, and Yette pumped those 2 up, and Anderson re-gauged those and let air out until they reached 12.5, based upon readings from the other 10 balls that were measured.  So your assumption is Walt Anderson also lied and disregarded two directives to make sure the Balls were at the proper pre game levels allowed.  I tend to beleive the report, as it is also known around the league how regimented Anderson was in every pre-game, not just playoffs.

 

But I'd like to hear your theory on just what psi level the PATS balls were at pre-game.  They had to be at something...

Walt Anderson and the New England Patriots were married a long time ago. How many years has it been now?

[dw49]

Got it.  Everyone else in the NFL is lying, from other teams coaches/owners to Refs and officials to all  League Front office personnel.  All trying to frame 'the Tom Brady'. {Sigh}

 

The Wells report is full of liars then.  Intricate stories to frame Brady, like more from pre-game ball prep-

 

"Yette used the air pump provided by the Patriots to inflate those (2 under inflated) footballs, explaining that he “purposefully overshot” the range (because it is hard to be precise when adding air), and then gave the footballs back to Anderson, who used the air release valve on his gauge to reduce the pressure down to 12.5 psi. According to Anderson, when tested, most of the Colts footballs measured 13.0 or 13.1 psi.

NFL game officials are not required to, and do not as a matter of standard practice, record in writing the pressure measurements taken during their pre-game inspections of game balls. We credit Anderson‟s recollection of the pre-game measurements taken on the day of the AFC Championship Game based on both the level of confidence Anderson expressed in his recollection and the consistency of his recollection with information provided by each of the Patriots and Colts regarding their target inflation levels. As described above, Jastremski told us that he aimed to set the Patriots footballs at 12.6 psi, and Brady stated that he had asked for the footballs to be set at 12.5 psi. Similarly, Sean Sullivan of the Colts explained that 13.0 psi is typically—and was on the day of the AFC Championship Game—targeted by the Colts when inflating game balls, although he said that the Colts consider any pressure within a range of 12.9 to 13.05 psi to be acceptable."

 

You claim there's no smoking gun to implicate Brady.  Yet you have no smoking gun that these events didn't take place as reported.  Double standard.

 

Yes, 12.0 psi  would change the calculations (I'm not doing it, no proof of them being there), notably if it was assumed they were 12.5 when they really were not. But also suggests Tom really does like an illegally under inflated ball, and Jastremski / McNally try to sneak them into the games, and that Jastremski lied in the Wells report above as well.

 

And Anderson's (not Coleman) lower reading gauge closely matched what Sullivan and Jastremski measured on their own gauges (to the psi reported above by each) before submitting their balls, and the calibrated gauge introduced at halftime matched the lower reading gauge as well.  There's no way the NFL concocted this whole story just to give Brady a 4 game suspension...  I'm not buying it at all.  Sorry.

 

 

Yeah ... you didn't know that besides the state on MA. , the whole world is crazy jealous of the Pats and would do anything possible to frame them ? This includes that whole network of people doing the Wells report , Goodall and all the other NFL employees that were "privy" to the investigation. Please don't ask me "what would happen" if just one of these people decided to make maybe 5 million and sell the story ? " Nonsense .. I say. The hatred and jealousy is so intense that there is no way a rat jumps ship. 

 

Funny thing is I really don't care about this anymore but I just can't refrain form answering theses lame posts . They are mostly unfounded and ridiculous.

 

Example... "the ideal gas law proves there was no ball deflation by the Pats."  Ehhh.. what's the point ?

[dw49]

Delusional is being kind.

 

Thank you.

[ColtsBlueFL]

A) The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused

 

And Brady was found guilty by preponderance of the evidence in the wells report.

 

Your accusation is my science isn't correct without knowing pre game pressures, and the Ref testified they were within, or brought in to spec.  You accuse they weren't.  Noe your burden to prove.

 

B) I have every bit as much circumstantial evidence to support the theory that the NFL isn't being completely honest about this as you do to suggest that Brady was involved in a plot to let 0.2 or 0.3 PSI out of game balls after they were checked. You mockingly laid out a scenario in your reply involving multiple people being in on the NFL's lie. Aside from that not being a good comparison as there were very few people who could say definitively what the pregame testing was or wasn't, nonetheless your scenario sounds awfully similar to the NFL's response to the Ray Rice video fiasco...you know - the one where not a single person in the NFL offices ever saw the video that was easily obtained by an entertainment journalism outfit.

 

Whether you like it or not, the Goodell era is littered with sketchiness that should make any rational person without an obvious anti-Patriots agenda call into question their version of what went on...and that seems to be what's happening. This "scandal" is now left to fans on message boards. The national pundits are off this ship.

 

The events I posted are all from the wells report.  Your dismissal of it does not mean they didn't happen.

 

Here is the straight and skinny, Brady was found guilty.  Period.  His suspension was upheld upon appeal.  It is now in front of Judge Berman.

 

So does he uphold the decision?  If he interprets this as typical labor arbitration, I believe he will be extremely reluctant to overturn it.  Marc Greenbaum, a professor of labor and employment law at Suffolk University and an arbitrator in labor disputes, said only five of his 600 decisions have been overturned by a judge in his 30 years hearing cases. All five involved employees in the public sector, not private employees such as Brady. 

 

“If a judge treats this as a labor arbitration, the judge will be reluctant to overturn the decision unless the judge is really convinced that Goodell’s demonstrable lack of neutrality deprived Brady of any kind of fair consideration,” Greenbaum said. “One way to look at it is, the players made their bed with this one, let them figure it out in the next CBA.”

 

“Appeals of arbitration awards are extremely deferential, and there are really only some narrow grounds by which you can overturn them,” Pollard said. “The complaint (NFLPA respnse) went well beyond any of those grounds. You can tell that whoever was writing it, was writing it for an audience, and not just the judge.

 

Then there are the grounds for Judge Berman to vacate the award.  The NFLPA attacks back on 4 points-

 

■ That Brady did not receive proper notice of the possible punishment.

■ That the “law of the shop” principle requires fair and consistent treatment in all player discipline.

■ That the NFL conducted a fundamentally unfair arbitration proceeding.

■ That Goodell was not an independent arbitrator, but “evidentially partial.”

 

Kessler is pressing these.  OTOH, There are still doubts Judge Berman will vacate the award. David Cornwell, an attorney who has represented NFL players in a variety of cases and a former candidate for executive director of the NFLPA, said when asked about Brady’s chances of success in court: “None.”  “It appears the process complied with Article 46,” Cornwell said. “What is granted to the commissioner is absolute authority to protect the integrity of the game. It is a hard and fast rule. He’s obligated to be fair, to not be arbitrary and capricious. You have to show fraud or undue bias to overturn an arbitration. You can’t do that here.”

 

“Since Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis suspended players in the Black Sox scandal, it has been well established that commissioners have the authority to act to preserve the integrity of the game. They are challenging principles that have been in place since the beginning of sports.”

 

Then again, others feel this way-

 

“In a case like this, there’s no way the commissioner can remove his bias from the situation,” Milstein said. “It’s his ruling, his sanction that he had to opine on and decide on. There’s no way you could argue the players bargained away bias. If they said the commissioner could be the arbiter in certain situations, the assumption is he would be the arbitrator in situations where he wasn’t already biased.”

 

“It’s very difficult to overturn the arbitration,” Milstein said. “It’s not like you can say the facts didn’t support the ruling. You can’t appeal an arbitration ruling the way you can a court’s decision. But the grounds to overturn an arbitration is, the main ground is it wasn’t fair, that it offends the principles of justice. The main thing anybody could argue in this case is the commissioner shouldn’t have been the arbiter since it was the commissioner’s own ruling that he was arbitrating.”

 

But this is my final parting thought-

 

The fact that the NFLPA bargained away the right for Goodell to hear appeals could work against it.

 

“In most CBAs there is a more healthy appeals process by an actual neutral third party,” Pollard said. “This doesn’t exist here, and I think the inference from that is that the parties did intend for the commissioner to have a great deal of authority in meting out discipline.”

 

 

No matter, the Judge wants  a settlement first, if possible.  Why? 

 

There is a practical reason Berman prefers parties to settle, Preska said.

“On the one hand, there’s just the fight,” she said. “But also, if we have to make a ruling, often it’s with a meat cleaver. They can craft a settlement with a scalpel, a much more nuanced settlement that will make everybody happy.”

[ViriLudant]

Goodell lied in saying that Brady provided compensation for McNally and Jastremski. There is ZERO proof of that.

How is that not fraud?

[jvan1973]

Goodell lied in saying that Brady provided compensation for McNally and Jastremski. There is ZERO proof of that.

How is that not fraud?

Can I get a link to that accusation?

[Bubbz]

Goodell lied in saying that Brady provided compensation for McNally and Jastremski. There is ZERO proof of that.

How is that not fraud?

Don't ever make a comment about people not using facts. Most of the things you say you just make up. Trash

[Bad Morty]

Can I get a link to that accusation?

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/07/nfl-nflpa-legal-briefs-tom-brady-suspension-deflategate-patriots-roger-goodell

 

In its brief filed Friday night, the NFL insists that in spite of the Wells Report finding that Brady was “generally aware” of an alleged ball deflation scheme, Goodell did not punish Brady for being generally aware. Instead, according to the NFL, Brady was punished for far worse misdeeds: Brady allegedly “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of . . . a scheme to tamper with the game balls” and “willfully obstructed” the league’s Deflategate investigation.

 

 

Given Brady’s categorical denials while under oath to these accusations and the absence of tangible NFL evidence disproving Brady’s denials, it is hard to understand how Goodell reached these conclusions. This seems particularly true of the serious allegation that Brady “induced” John Jastremski and Jim McNally to tamper with game balls (this assumes, of course, the tampering even occurred, rather than, as some insist, any ball deflation merely reflected the Ideal Gas Law in action). If Goodell’s accusation against Brady about an apparent bribe is untrue, it would be well within Brady’s rights to file a defamation lawsuit against the NFL.

[ColtRider]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/07/nfl-nflpa-legal-briefs-tom-brady-suspension-deflategate-patriots-roger-goodell

 

In its brief filed Friday night, the NFL insists that in spite of the Wells Report finding that Brady was “generally aware” of an alleged ball deflation scheme, Goodell did not punish Brady for being generally aware. Instead, according to the NFL, Brady was punished for far worse misdeeds: Brady allegedly “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of . . . a scheme to tamper with the game balls” and “willfully obstructed” the league’s Deflategate investigation.

 

 

Given Brady’s categorical denials while under oath to these accusations and the absence of tangible NFL evidence disproving Brady’s denials, it is hard to understand how Goodell reached these conclusions. This seems particularly true of the serious allegation that Brady “induced” John Jastremski and Jim McNally to tamper with game balls (this assumes, of course, the tampering even occurred, rather than, as some insist, any ball deflation merely reflected the Ideal Gas Law in action). If Goodell’s accusation against Brady about an apparent bribe is untrue, it would be well within Brady’s rights to file a defamation lawsuit against the NFL.

And we all know that Jastremski and McNally took it upon their own validity to alter the footballs without anyone else's approval or knowledge therein.

ROTFL!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Goodell lied in saying that Brady provided compensation for McNally and Jastremski. There is ZERO proof of that.

How is that not fraud?

 

In the Wells report  (could be more, I skimmed it...)

 

Items of value received from Brady-

 

McNally

Two signed footballs

Signed game day jersey

Jastremski-

$1500.00 tip in 2014

$500.00 in cash and gift cards prior years

Two tickets to a Lakers game in L.A.

Signed 50,000 yard milestone game ball

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Once more, your attempt to show fraud or undue bias has fallen short of the mark.

[Bad Morty]

In the Wells report  (could be more, I skimmed it...)

 

Items of value received from Brady-

 

McNally

Two signed footballs

Signed game day jersey

Jastremski-

$1500.00 tip in 2014

$500.00 in cash and gift cards prior years

Two tickets to a Lakers game in L.A.

Signed 50,000 yard milestone game ball

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Once more, your attempt to show fraud or undue bias has fallen short of the mark.

Do you suppose McNally and Jastremski are the only two ball attendants in the league who received gifts from the team's QB?

[ViriLudant]

Can I get a link to that accusation?

It was in the memo submitted to the court yesterday.

It's in the NFL link here:m

"He found that Brady “knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements” in support of a scheme to tamper with the game balls used in the AFC Championship Game."

http://timinhonolulu.com/2015/08/07/deflate-gate-docs-interested-in-the-patriots-qb-brady-case-filed-friday-aug-7-in-ny-ap/

Goodell is lying left and right.

[ViriLudant]

Don't ever make a comment about people not using facts. Most of the things you say you just make up. Trash

READ THE REPORTS.

From the memo: "He found that Brady “knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements” in support of a scheme to tamper with the game balls used in the AFC Championship Game. "

As usual, you're wrong.