Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[SteelCityColt]

Read Dynasty's post  that I quoted. The numbers do not support the narrative.

 

 

Do you even understand what you are saying? 

 

So at home they have a fumble rate that is an statistical outlier... it's outside the normal variation. Them fumbling on the road less than at home doesn't make this go away, it raises more questions. 

 

If you read my post properly I was specifically tying this to ball manipulation, but if you want to go down that road.. they still get to use the balls they have prepared beforehand on the road. The only difference might be getting access to them before as easily, but if anything this whole has shown that Pat's employees will disregard the ball custody rules anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

Who cares if they lost a fumble or not, the question is whether or not they fumbled period. It is completely irrelevant which team jumps on the loose ball after the fact, my point was that the numbers of fumbles at home vs fumbles away do not support the narrative that many are putting out there.

 

I'm not saying this proves or disproves anything, I'm simply saying that I find it interesting that many can't wait to point to future fumble rates as some sort of justification for their argument when past fumble rates do nothing to support that claim. McNally does not travel with the team...so one would assume that the fumble rates would be higher at away games than at home games...but in reality, the opposite is true.

 

 

 

While you could rule out ball manipulation on that basis possibly, although I contend they are still using Tom Brady approved prepared Balls™ whether or not The Deflator travels with the team.

 

However what you don't address is that it's still a question to be answered as to why that Pats fumble numbers are way outside the norm, home and away and have been since 2007. It's a clear demarcation point which ties in with the ball rule changes. 

 

You know what, there could be a perfectly reasonable and above all legal root cause, but you'd also think other teams wouldn't be far behind. It's a game of catch up after all, one team does something to great success and other teams follow. 

 

Basically your dismissal was a little too glib I think. 

 

[BPindy]

I'm not the only one who realizes that outside of the circumstantial evidence (The Deflator, the psi levels, the balls going missing, the texts we know of, Brady destroying the phone) the actual evidence of what's on Brady's phone proving his guilt still exists right? So when I hear a dumb comment like "no evidence" you realize he is being punished for impeding the investigation and obstructing evidence. Heck, we haven't heard from the two dopes who got suspended for "doing nothing wrong" since The Deflator texts became apparent. Hope they go to court w Brady, you think they'll keep quiet in the face of a perjury charge over a football?

Don't forget the Pats getting rid of the equipment managers

[Nadine]

Can I vote for myself?

no, you have to stay!

[bababooey]

@SportsNation: Some Jets fans paid for a plane to fly over Patriots practice w/ banner saying, "Cheaters look up." (via @PhilAPerry) http://t.co/YmkYYrARLA

[Gramz]

Can I vote for myself?

I've tried a few times to vote myself off the island as well. In the end, the people I like here FAR outnumber the the other chosen few.

[amfootball]

What makes you say favoritism runs rampart in MN?

 

Did it ever occur to you that this circuit is following its opinion of labor laws?

All moot. It got moved to NY but the NY judge is a liberal who often sides with employers over employees. Brady may have lucked out big time as he was not going to get Doty in MN and the assigned MN judge was conservative.

 

JT ‏@johntaylor30 26m26 minutes ago

@WillBrinson NY judge is a liberal who's record shows siding with employee more than employer. Without Doty Brady might have lucked out.

[bababooey]

All moot. It got moved to NY but the NY judge is a liberal who often sides with employers over employees. Brady may have lucked out big time as he was not going to get Doty in MN and the assigned MN judge was conservative.

JT ‏@johntaylor30 26m26 minutes ago

@WillBrinson NY judge is a liberal who's record shows siding with employee more than employer. Without Doty Brady might have lucked out.

You realize Brady may serve no time and get off oh technicalities but he's just the same as OJ, Barry Bonds, Arod, right?

[weslo1812]

Read the NFLPA doc that I linked earlier.

It.

Is.

Outstanding .

Oh, and blows away, clear and simply, anything released by Goodell and Co.

Oh, and this will take place in Minny. Kessell associated this with the Peterson case (which is going to kill Goodell, since he's insisting that they are unrelated), and therefore it will have precedence over what the NFL did in NY.

NFLPA is known for lying and lying some more...Goodell has his case for Sustaining the Suspension backed very very well!!! AND Judges most often do not like or want to mess with arbitration rulings. It's highly highly unlikely Brady and his crew will get anything out of court. Plus Brady has changed his story multiple times. That's the sign of a guilty man!!! He Goes before Goodell and says specifically that he destroys his old phones, now he says that not true that his old phone broke. Caught in a lie right there. AND it was a lie before that because they used an older phone of his, the one he had previously to the one with which they wanted to retrieve texts from for Forensics testing... hmmmmm... quite odds hugg. That's two lies right there. Brady is done, his reputation is SHOT in most of the publics eyes and he's seen as guilty. Right now he's only digging his hole deeper by lying and trying to change his story to something that sounds better and more believable.

[amfootball]

NFLPA is known for lying and lying some more...Goodell has his case for Sustaining the Suspension backed very very well!!! AND Judges most often do not like or want to mess with arbitration rulings. It's highly highly unlikely Brady and his crew will get anything out of court. Plus Brady has changed his story multiple times. That's the sign of a guilty man!!! He Goes before Goodell and says specifically that he destroys his old phones, now he says that not true that his old phone broke. Caught in a lie right there. AND it was a lie before that because they used an older phone of his, the one he had previously to the one with which they wanted to retrieve texts from for Forensics testing... hmmmmm... quite odds hugg. That's two lies right there. Brady is done, his reputation is SHOT in most of the publics eyes and he's seen as guilty. Right now he's only digging his hole deeper by lying and trying to change his story to something that sounds better and more believable.

Goodell has been crushed in court historically.

[amfootball]

You realize Brady may serve no time and get off oh technicalities but he's just the same as OJ, Barry Bonds, Arod, right?

And do you realize that the suspension may stand and that will not change his status as the GOAT Qb of his generation and most accomplished QB of the SB era?

[bababooey]

Goodell has been crushed in court historically.

He's Goodell now? What happened to Roger? You realize this case is not the same as other cases, correct?

[bababooey]

And do you realize that the suspension may stand and that will not change his status as the GOAT Qb of his generation and most accomplished QB of the SB era?

Winners > Losers > Cheaters in everyone's eyes. Including yours if this happened to Peyton Manning.

[pgt_rob]

@SportsNation: Some Jets fans paid for a plane to fly over Patriots practice w/ banner saying, "Cheaters look up." (via @PhilAPerry) http://t.co/YmkYYrARLA

 

Meanwhile at Pats camp:

 

[OffensivelyPC]

Can I vote for myself?

I just lost a dollar....to MYSELF!!!

[Restored]

And do you realize that the suspension may stand and that will not change his status as the GOAT Qb of his generation and most accomplished QB of the SB era?

 

In your opinion.

 

People equate greatness with different measurables. And I hate to break it to you, but people outside of Boston won't forget that this happened whenever they bring up Tom Brady in the greatest of all time discussions. It will now be "yeah he won 4 superbowls but he got caught cheating and tried to lie about it". Perception is what matters and thats how people will perceive him going forward. Boston/Patriot fans thought Spygate would go away fairly quickly and behold nearly a decade later, it still is like a bad stain the Patriots can't get rid of.

[bababooey]

In your opinion.

People equate greatness with different measurables. And I hate to break it to you, but people outside of Boston won't forget that this happened whenever they bring up Tom Brady in the greatest of all time discussions. It will now be "yeah he won 4 superbowls but.....". Boston/Patriot fans thought Spygate would go away fairly quickly and behold nearly a decade later, it still is like a bad stain the Patriots can't get rid of.

Or the fact the "yeah but.....he's been suspended for cheating in a game that got him to the superbowl that had we known all of this information he should have and would have been suspended and not had the opportunity to win another championship but he lied long enough to get him out of trouble for the time being"

[pgt_rob]

Judge orders Brady's suit to be moved to New York.

 

"This court perceives no reason for this action to proceed in Minnesota," Kyle wrote in his ruling.

 

"Indeed, the Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000504957/article/judge-orders-tom-brady-suit-to-be-moved-to-ny

[pgt_rob]

And do you realize that the suspension may stand and that will not change his status as the GOAT Qb of his generation and most accomplished QB of the SB era?

 

    Again, that's your opinion.

[amfootball]

In your opinion.

 

People equate greatness with different measurables. And I hate to break it to you, but people outside of Boston won't forget that this happened whenever they bring up Tom Brady in the greatest of all time discussions. It will now be "yeah he won 4 superbowls but.....". Boston/Patriot fans thought Spygate would go away fairly quickly and behold nearly a decade later, it still is like a bad stain the Patriots can't get rid of.

You state that like any of us care what the national fans think. As I have said more than once up here. You can put asterisk or footnotes next to almost every single team in pro sports. In the grand scheme of cheating, camera location and unproven ball deflation really don't rank up there with say the FBI investing the Cards to hacking into the Astros player computer system or the Saints bounty program or the NBA refs rigging games. It is what it is. If any of it bothered me that much I would choose not to watch. In the meantime, we have a banner to raise in just a few weeks!

[OffensivelyPC]

like being voted off the island? Should we have a ceremony?

We could have a ceremony, but I've come up with a better idea and it would even help raise money for the forums:

[jvan1973]

Judge orders Brady's suit to be moved to New York.

"This court perceives no reason for this action to proceed in Minnesota," Kyle wrote in his ruling.

"Indeed, the Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000504957/article/judge-orders-tom-brady-suit-to-be-moved-to-ny

Wait, doesn't that judge know bob kraft is angry? How dare he do this

[pgt_rob]

In the meantime, we have a banner to raise in just a few weeks!

 

Are you going to be there helping them do it?

[PrincetonTiger]

like being voted off the island? Should we have a ceremony?

Does the person voted off need to rip their sleeves

[Yehoodi]

I believe the NFL filing first has given presumption of jurisdicition in NY. The NFLPA will have to ask the court in NY to file a motion to hold the NFL lawsuit in abeyance for any Minnesota proceedings to continue. Courts are very reluctant to do such, as far as I know. I guess we'll soon see.

 

Yes we will have to wait.  I am aware of a first filing priority rule among the federal circuits where there are two filings one for each party in separate circuits and the courts will yield to the one with the earlier filing.  But those typically are when both parties have a cause of action against the other and each independently can be a plaintiff in a civil suit.  And each files their civil suits as plaintiffs.    

 

For example, getting back to my mailbox incident, if you and I get into a fight over deflategate and punch each other and just have at it and we end up breaking each others hand, we are both pianist, we each have over 75K in damage and each think the other is at fault.  So we each could file a civil suit as a plaintiff.  I scurry home and file in Mass in the 1st circuit so as not to have to travel to Indiana.  You file a two weeks later in Indiana in the 7th circuit, which would then yield to my court as I filed first.  You can certainly file a counter claim in my case, but I would not have to travel.   So a typically type case. 

 

But I have not seen a straight forward defendant try to start a case.   And again, I think the NFL is trying to boot strap a case in NY.  It will be interesting to see how things pan out.  If the NY court wants to hang on to the matter and start the case in NY, it will be interesting to see if the NFLPA would appeal the decision to keep the case in the NY and if the same is something the NY court can do when the underlying case is filed in MN. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Looks like the NFL has won Round 1

[jvan1973]

You state that like any of us care what the national fans think. As I have said more than once up here. You can put asterisk or footnotes next to almost every single team in pro sports. In the grand scheme of cheating, camera location and unproven ball deflation really don't rank up there with say the FBI investing the Cards to hacking into the Astros player computer system or the Saints bounty program or the NBA refs rigging games. It is what it is. If any of it bothered me that much I would choose not to watch. In the meantime, we have a banner to raise in just a few weeks!

Barry Bonds is also the single season home run hitter. But nobody outside the bonds family sees him as such

[amfootball]

Yes we will have to wait.  I am aware of a first filing priority rule among the federal circuits where there are two filings one for each party in separate circuits and the courts will yield to the one with the earlier filing.  But those typically are when both parties have a cause of action against the other and each independently can be a plaintiff in a civil suit.  And each files their civil suits as plaintiffs.    

 

For example, getting back to my mailbox incident, if you and I get into a fight over deflategate and punch each other and just have at it and we end up breaking each others hand, we are both pianist, we each have over 75K in damage and each think the other is at fault.  So we each could file a civil suit as a plaintiff.  I scurry home and file in Mass in the 1st circuit so as not to have to travel to Indiana.  You file a two weeks later in Indiana in the 7th circuit, which would then yield to my court as I filed first.  You can certainly file a counter claim in my case, but I would not have to travel.   So a typically type case. 

 

But I have not seen a straight forward defendant try to start a case.   And again, I think the NFL is trying to boot strap a case in NY.  It will be interesting to see how things pan out.  If the NY court wants to hang on to the matter and start the case in NY, it will be interesting to see if the NFLPA would appeal the decision to keep the case in the NY and if the same is something the NY court can do when the underlying case is filed in MN. 

It is in NY. MN judge sent to NY. I would think PA will appeal.

[Yehoodi]

Judge orders Brady's suit to be moved to New York.

 

"This court perceives no reason for this action to proceed in Minnesota," Kyle wrote in his ruling.

 

"Indeed, the Court sees little reason for this action to have been commenced in Minnesota at all," Kyle wrote. "Brady plays for a team in Massachusetts; the Union is headquartered in Washington, D.C.; the NFL is headquartered in New York; the arbitration proceedings took place in New York; and the award was issued in New York.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000504957/article/judge-orders-tom-brady-suit-to-be-moved-to-ny

 

thanks for posting.

[jvan1973]

It is in NY. MN judge sent to NY. I would think PA will appeal.

Good luck with that

[amfootball]

Barry Bonds is also the single season home run hitter. But nobody outside the bonds family sees him as such

LOL. Keep trying to compare a roid abuser to unproven ball deflation ...

[jvan1973]

LOL. Keep trying to compare a roid abuser to unproven ball deflation ...

Unproven steroid abuser

[Restored]

You state that like any of us care what the national fans think. As I have said more than once up here. You can put asterisk or footnotes next to almost every single team in pro sports. In the grand scheme of cheating, camera location and unproven ball deflation really don't rank up there with say the FBI investing the Cards to hacking into the Astros player computer system or the Saints bounty program or the NBA refs rigging games. It is what it is. If any of it bothered me that much I would choose not to watch. In the meantime, we have a banner to raise in just a few weeks!

 

"US" means Patriots fans. And let me tell you, Patriots fans aren't the majority so Brady can continue to be the "GOAT" in yours and Patriots fans eyes but to the rest of the rationale world, he is not. Again, you can deflect to what others have done but you are missing one vital piece. In trying to compare what other cheating organizations/players have done, you are grouping the Patriots and Brady in with them as cheaters. Good day.

[Yehoodi]

It is in NY. MN judge sent to NY. I would think PA will appeal.

 

yah just saw the link from pgt. 

[bababooey]

It is in NY. MN judge sent to NY. I would think PA will appeal.

It's pathetic the amount of appeals on appeals and escalations this has been receiving all because tom Brady won't cooperate. Arod literally did this two years ago and the MLB had less on him. Now he's mashing it for the AL favorites and everyone is loving it. Just take the lumps. He'll always be a cheater to everyone not from New England just stop prolonging it and making it bigger than it is

[amfootball]

Unproven steroid abuser

And also zero rings too. LOL. This will the smallest of small footnotes for Brady. Especially when he adds ring #5 ...

[PrincetonTiger]

The next thing will be the ouster of the union heads by the members

[jvan1973]

And also zero rings too. LOL. This will the smallest of small footnotes for Brady. Especially when he adds ring #5 ...

Like the footnote on Barry bonds?

[amfootball]

"US" means Patriots fans. And let me tell you, Patriots fans aren't the majority so Brady can continue to be the "GOAT" in yours and Patriots fans eyes but to the rest of the rationale world, he is not. Again, you can deflect to what others have done but you are missing one vital piece. In trying to compare what other cheating organizations/players have done, you are grouping the Patriots and Brady in with them as cheaters. Good day.

You do realize that every single time a QB comes within even a country mile of some of Brady's achievements, he will be mentioned much like Montana was before him? His records stand as much as you want to see them fade. Every single QB will be chasing him forever ...

[crazycolt1]

Why would I want to visit there..???   I have a home Forum I am happy with.

I am with you Gramz. I do not feel the need to go to another teams forum to debate, argue or defend my team.

[amfootball]

yah just saw the link from pgt. 

Good news is NY judge is a liberal who often rules in favor of the employee over the employer so Brady may have lucked out regardless. He was not going to get Doty in MN anyways ...