NFLPA investigating Patriots for potential CBA violation

[chad72]

Off topic: Hey QuizBoy, did your avatar play in the French Open this year? Or is she strictly a US Open, Australian Open, & Wimbledon girl? Just curious...She's cute. Naturally, I'd only be watching her for her serve ability on the court. Yeah right.   Clay is difficult to play on & the ball has no bounce at all. Tennis stars hate that. Plus, when you fall on it, it hurts like hades & has no cushion or give to it at all. 

 

Okay, back on topic. 

 

It's called topspin, southwest. Players use it on hard courts, on clay, on grass etc. to keep shots in. Falling on clay does not hurt nearly as bad as falling on US and Australian Open hard courts. Only grass is better. Players born around clay learn the sliding, the topspin and drop shots that work on clay. Some clay courts are baked harder, just depends. That is why, growing up as a teen, loved Boris Becker's reckless abandon, diving for balls on grass and clay, and in dire situations, even on hard courts.

 

It is not a co-incidence that Nadal, a guy that is built bigger has knee issues on hard courts but on the softer clay and grass surfaces can move better. Grass is not what it used to be, does not skid as much and is not as friendly to serve and volleying, a lost art, IMO (loved those Becker, Sampras, Edberg days). That is why I love Roger Federer, his quick feet, better all around skills including net skills, and smaller stature let him play anywhere and if not for Nadal, would have won more French Opens. Federer is one guy I feel would have thrived in almost any era, even if they did not make the grass bounce friendly for rallies like they have done now.

[Bad Morty]

In related news, Butler is reportedly bitterly disappointed that he won't be able to hang the special "OTA Participant" banner that he had made to commemorate the fact that he participated in something.

[Jaric]

Weird that nobody is up in arms about that story, but lets restart this 'those cheatin' Patriots again' revolution to fabricate something else to hate them for!

I'm not sure a lot of people are up in arms about this story.

I posted it because I think it's funny.

[Jaric]

In related news, Butler is reportedly bitterly disappointed that he won't be able to hang the special "OTA Participant" banner that he had made to commemorate the fact that he participated in something.

I see what you did there.

[jvan1973]

It is not a reminder but perspective. As I have said up here before THE most important game for this Patriots team to win in this 15 year run was that Super Bowl. on Feb. 1. Deflategate was just a side story. The bigger story was this team finally getting that elusive fourth ring after coming so close two SBs prior. The narrative on this team had they lost that game would have been awful with Brady going 3-3 in SBs and losing his last 3. Bill too for that matter. And of course doing it verse that Seattle team which has the best defense of the last two years was particularly satisfying. And btw, I do think the Pats lucked out big time with Carroll making that pass call and thank goodness Butler capitalized. It finally felt like the luck swung to them at the end of the SB which was also great. There was tremendous closure for Pats fans with that win.

In terms of this Butler story, at this point Bill can do whatever he wants. After 15 years, he has as much latitude as he wants with any player. Remember he sent Revis home last year too and also benched Gray after his great performance vs the Colts. I don't always understand everything he does but I know all that he does is to make his team a SB contender which he seems to do year in and year out. If the PA penalizes him for it so be it as if he can get a great season out of Butler it will be worth it. Goodness knows we need guys that can play in the secondary.

Actually, he can't do whatever he wants. The CBA doesn't allow a player to be suspended for missing voluntary workouts.

[Superman]

Actually, he can't do whatever he wants. The CBA doesn't allow a player to be suspended for missing voluntary workouts.

 

It doesn't sound like he was suspended, just held off the field. We'll see how that goes. Might be some grey area.

 

Either way, I don't care about this in the slightest. 

[amfootball]

Actually, he can't do whatever he wants. The CBA doesn't allow a player to be suspended for missing voluntary workouts.

He was not suspended just held off the field. Also, it was for a total of 6 OTAs over two weeks so nothing close to three weeks as originally reported. Bill knows the CBA well so we will see where this goes but lots of gray to this.

[-JJ-]

I'm not sure a lot of people are up in arms about this story.

I posted it because I think it's funny.

I don't think it's funny. I think you're funny.....

[Jaric]

I don't think it's funny. I think you're funny.....

Funny how?

[Superman]

Oh, also, this is an NFLPA "investigation," not an NFL investigation. So I really don't care...

[Jaric]

Oh, also, this is an NFLPA "investigation," not an NFL investigation. So I really don't care...

Demaurice Smith does not like this post.

[Superman]

Demaurice Smith does not like this post.

This pleases me.

[amfootball]

The penalty for this violation would be missed practice time for the team. That seems odd.

[Jaric]

The penalty for this violation would be missed practice time for the team. That seems odd.

If Malcolm Butler can't practice, NO ONE can practice.

[Gramz]

Jaric.....what a fun thread. .

[amfootball]

If Malcolm Butler can't practice, NO ONE can practice.

lol. Yeah. Seems to be so. What a strange penalty ...

[Shane Bond]

It's called topspin, southwest. Players use it on hard courts, on clay, on grass etc. to keep shots in. Falling on clay does not hurt nearly as bad as falling on US and Australian Open hard courts. Only grass is better. Players born around clay learn the sliding, the topspin and drop shots that work on clay. Some clay courts are baked harder, just depends. That is why, growing up as a teen, loved Boris Becker's reckless abandon, diving for balls on grass and clay, and in dire situations, even on hard courts.

 

It is not a co-incidence that Nadal, a guy that is built bigger has knee issues on hard courts but on the softer clay and grass surfaces can move better. Grass is not what it used to be, does not skid as much and is not as friendly to serve and volleying, a lost art, IMO (loved those Becker, Sampras, Edberg days). That is why I love Roger Federer, his quick feet, better all around skills including net skills, and smaller stature let him play anywhere and if not for Nadal, would have won more French Opens. Federer is one guy I feel would have thrived in almost any era, even if they did not make the grass bounce friendly for rallies like they have done now.

 

Competition was very high during Sampras/Edberg/Becker/Agassi\Lendl era. 16 for Sampras, 7 for Edberg, 6 for Becker and 8 for Agassi, 8 for Lendl.

 

Federer had a fairly easy schedule. If you club Federer into above era, he wouldn't have won as much as he did.

[Jason_]

He was not suspended just held off the field. Also, it was for a total of 6 OTAs over two weeks so nothing close to three weeks as originally reported. Bill knows the CBA well so we will see where this goes but lots of gray to this.

 

well that's just JimDandy...doesn't change the fact though that Bill can't "do whatever he wants" ;)

[-JJ-]

Funny how?

funny you

[chad72]

Competition was very high during Sampras/Edberg/Becker/Agassi\Lendl era. 16 for Sampras, 7 for Edberg, 6 for Becker and 8 for Agassi, 8 for Lendl.

 

Federer had a fairly easy schedule. If you club Federer into above era, he wouldn't have won as much as he did.

 

Totally agree, Shane. Federer would have still done well, just a shade under Sampras, who had 14, btw, if Federer had played alongside Sampras. Just not the 17 that he has now.

 

It has been a vacuum, IMO, in the Nadal, Djokovic, Federer era. The depth of competition has been lacking, more so because they took out the advantages big servers had with a grass conducive to the ground game. Yeah, spectactors want longer rallies but grass that skids (that Lendl once said belonged to cows ) had its own mystique. Now, you see 10-20 stroke rallies on grass, hard courts and clay, yuck if you ask me. Lack of quality Americans in the men's circuit is hurting interest in the US, IMO. Connors, McEnroe, Agassi and Sampras made it real exciting.

 

Federer, however, was quicker on his feet and has a great racquet feel, which would have served him well on hard courts where his half volley quick groundstrokes and taking the ball early but with single hands on both sides would have given him more of an advantage against slower bigs like Becker and Edberg, and only Sampras would have gone toe-to-toe with him, IMO. 

 

However, Sampras had to face those big servers like Ivanisevic and Krajicek, who on a given day, especially at Wimbledon, could blow the top off the tennis balls with their serves and Sampras had at least 2 extra Wimbledons denied, thanks to those 2, IMO. That was when Wimbledon was, truly a grass court game .

[Shane Bond]

Totally agree, Shane. Federer would have still done well, just a shade under Sampras, who had 14, btw, if Federer had played alongside Sampras. Just not the 17 that he has now.

 

It has been a vacuum, IMO, in the Nadal, Djokovic, Federer era. The depth of competition has been lacking, more so because they took out the advantages big servers had with a grass conducive to the ground game. Yeah, spectactors want longer rallies but grass that skids (that Lendl once said belonged to cows ) had its own mystique. Now, you see 10-20 stroke rallies on grass, hard courts and clay, yuck if you ask me. Lack of quality Americans in the men's circuit is hurting interest in the US, IMO. Connors, McEnroe, Agassi and Sampras made it real exciting.

 

Federer, however, was quicker on his feet and has a great racquet feel, which would have served him well on hard courts where his half volley quick groundstrokes and taking the ball early but with single hands on both sides would have given him more of an advantage against slower bigs like Becker and Edberg, and only Sampras would have gone toe-to-toe with him, IMO. 

 

However, Sampras had to face those big servers like Ivanisevic and Krajicek, who on a given day, especially at Wimbledon, could blow the top off the tennis balls with their serves and Sampras had at least 2 extra Wimbledons denied, thanks to those 2, IMO. That was when Wimbledon was, truly a grass court game .

Sampras at his best, Federer wont beat him in grass. Heck, he will struggle to beat Edberg in grass. Kick serve and volley at net by Edberg. He was unplayable.

 

And Federer is no way beating Lendl in US Open ( Lendl 8 straight US Open finals ) and French. He probably would have won like 7 or 8.

 

I am a huge Lendl fan. I am still not over him not winning Wimbledon.

 

Tennis those days, were awesome.

[coltsfansince65]

And multiple championships ...

Complete with multiple asterisks...............****

[Warhorse]

This story is a hoot. It apparently was broke by Jeff Howe who has never gotten a story right. His three week suspension has already been challenged by Ben Volin who said Butler has been at practice this week. So, lots to sort out here as to what actually happened.

 

But I have to say, it is unbelievable to me how much the Pats are in the collective heads of the league, 31 other owners and fan bases. It is really stunning. Every move they make is a national story ...

What is stunning is how much Pats fans post in other teams boards to try and change popular opinion. As far as collective heads, none are bigger than Pats fans. Niner, Cowboy and Steeler fans have multiple titles, but they pale in the comparison to Pats fans who feel the need to display their teams titles and accomplishments in their signature. Many Pats fan's level of insecurity is shocking and unbelievable to others as well. Just responding to your train of thought in kind. 

[amfootball]

What is stunning is how much Pats fans post in other teams boards to try and change popular opinion. As far as collective heads, none are bigger than Pats fans. Niner, Cowboy and Steeler fans have multiple titles, but they pale in the comparison to Pats fans who feel the need to display their teams titles and accomplishments in their signature. Many Pats fan's level of insecurity is shocking and unbelievable to others as well. Just responding to your train of thought in kind. 

If you think Pats fans are bad, you should interact with/meet Red Sox fans.

[weslo1812]

And multiple championships ...

And how many of those can they say they won fairly and won playing according to all the rules??? Probably not a question you wanna really answer honestly. Championships are great, but when there is severe question and even proof as to the fact of whether they were won fairly and with Integrity, then to me and many others I'm sure it greatly deminishes the value of the Championship and the glory of winning it. I'd much rather know my team plays with integrity and by the rules and maybe hasn't won alot of championships, then know that my team has won multiple Championships but hasn't played by all the rules and with integrity. Because then to me it's as if the championships means nothing.

[Yehoodi]

And how many of those can they say they won fairly and won playing according to all the rules??? Probably not a question you wanna really answer honestly. Championships are great, but when there is severe question and even proof as to the fact of whether they were won fairly and with Integrity, then to me and many others I'm sure it greatly deminishes the value of the Championship and the glory of winning it. I'd much rather know my team plays with integrity and by the rules and maybe hasn't won alot of championships, then know that my team has won multiple Championships but hasn't played by all the rules and with integrity. Because then to me it's as if the championships means nothing.

 

2-14 . . . . nuff said

[Shane Bond]

2-14 . . . . nuff said

I am not following you?

[aaron11]

2-14 . . . . nuff said

show me a rule that says that you are not allowed to tank.  heck, the bucs did it blatantly this year in the final game and no one seems to care about that

[amfootball]

And how many of those can they say they won fairly and won playing according to all the rules??? Probably not a question you wanna really answer honestly. Championships are great, but when there is severe question and even proof as to the fact of whether they were won fairly and with Integrity, then to me and many others I'm sure it greatly deminishes the value of the Championship and the glory of winning it. I'd much rather know my team plays with integrity and by the rules and maybe hasn't won alot of championships, then know that my team has won multiple Championships but hasn't played by all the rules and with integrity. Because then to me it's as if the championships means nothing.

If that is your viewpoint then so be it but no championship in professional sports is won on the up and up. Just this past week we heard from Montana about the niners cheating and from Shaquille O'Neal on his cheating and of course we have the FIFA fiasco, the NBA refs rigging games, and have lived through the steroid era in baseball where Congress got involved. As I have said up here more than once, if it bothers anyone that much what the Pats did or any other team that has cheated and won then I don't know why you watch. I would find more productive things to do with my time. I consider all the past champions of the NFL from the Saints to the Hawks to be legit champions despite their cheating as well as the MLB championships that have been won since the early 80's. But that is just me. I certainly understand if others don't but again that begs the question of why invest your time to begin with.

[Shane Bond]

show me a rule that says that you are not allowed to tank.  heck, the bucs did it blatantly this year in the final game and no one seems to care about that

Oh he was referring about tanking. Colts didn't tank, they played hard to win every game.

[aaron11]

Oh he was referring about tanking. Colts didn't tank, they played hard to win every game.

i dont think it we lost on purpose either, but even if we did, one would be hard pressed to figure out what rules, if any were broken

[Shane Bond]

i dont think it we lost on purpose either, but even if we did, one would be hard pressed to figure out what rules, if any were broken

he is just conspiring. What pats did are actual violation.

[HOZER]

If that is your viewpoint then so be it but no championship in professional sports is won on the up and up. Just this past week we heard from Montana about the niners cheating and from Shaquille O'Neal on his cheating and of course we have the FIFA fiasco, the NBA refs rigging games, and have lived through the steroid era in baseball where Congress got involved. As I have said up here more than once, if it bothers anyone that much what the Pats did or any other team that has cheated and won then I don't know why you watch. I would find more productive things to do with my time. I consider all the past champions of the NFL from the Saints to the Hawks to be legit champions despite their cheating as well as the MLB championships that have been won since the early 80's. But that is just me. I certainly understand if others don't but again that begs the question of why invest your time to begin with.

Good grief.....it is so sad that you have become so complacent with your teams shenanigans. I am willing to bet that a majority of sports fans do not share your viewpoint.

[amfootball]

Good grief.....it is so sad that you have become so complacent with your teams shenanigans. I am willing to bet that a majority of sports fans do not share your viewpoint.

What viewpoint? That professional teams and players cheat? That is reality.

 

As Steve Kerr just said today when he lied about his lineup to the media to fool the Cavs HC, "I don't think they hand you the trophy based on morality. They give it to you if you win." 

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/highlight/you-dont-win-the-trophy-for-morality-why-steve-kerr-lied-about-the-lineup

[HOZER]

What viewpoint? That professional teams and players cheat? That is reality.

As Steve Kerr just said today when he lied about his lineup to the media to fool the Cavs HC, "I don't think they hand you the trophy based on morality. They give it to you if you win."

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/highlight/you-dont-win-the-trophy-for-morality-why-steve-kerr-lied-about-the-lineup

Yes, as we all know, certain teams and players cheat, but not all of them. And Kerr is right, they don't give you the trophy for morality, but the league and SOCIETY expects you to have morals and not cheat to win.

I have children, and I will NEVER allow them to cheat or have a "win at any cost" mentality when it comes to sports....I will try my hardest to not contribute to the decay of our society.

[amfootball]

Yes, as we all know, certain teams and players cheat, but not all of them. And Kerr is right, they don't give you the trophy for morality, but the league and SOCIETY expects you to have morals and not cheat to win.

I have children, and I will NEVER allow them to cheat or have a "win at any cost" mentality when it comes to sports....I will try my hardest to not contribute to the decay of our society.

I agree but I think you have to have balance with your kids too. Gamesmanship, pushing rules, etc. happens all the time at every level of competitive sports. From what I have already seen and experienced in just a few years, youth sports is as corrupt as pro sports maybe more so because of the politics and absence of a governing body to make sure things are fair. And of course the stakes are sky high because scholarships are on the line and potential pro careers. Like I said, at some point you have to evaluate how much you want to participate as a fan and as a parent how far you want to expose your kids. I have not liked much of what I have seen thus far and I am not even at high school level yet. 

[southwest1]

It is not a reminder but perspective. As I have said up here before THE most important game for this Patriots team to win in this 15 year run was that Super Bowl. on Feb. 1.  Deflategate was just a side story. The bigger story was this team finally getting that elusive fourth ring after coming so close two SBs prior. The narrative on this team had they lost that game would have been awful with Brady going 3-3 in SBs and losing his last 3. Bill too for that matter. And of course doing it verse that Seattle team which has the best defense of the last two years was particularly satisfying. And btw, I do think the Pats lucked out big time with Carroll making that pass call and thank goodness Butler capitalized. It finally felt like the luck swung to them at the end of the SB which was also great. There was tremendous closure for Pats fans with that win.

 

In terms of this Butler story, at this point Bill can do whatever he wants. After 15 years, he has as much latitude as he wants with any player. Remember he sent Revis home last year too and also benched Gray after his great performance vs the Colts. I don't always understand everything he does but I know all that he does is to make his team a SB contender which he seems to do year in and year out. If the PA penalizes him for it so be it as if he can get a great season out of Butler it will be worth it. Goodness knows we need guys that can play in the secondary.

This is why I respect you most AMF: Because you are honest about what losing this SB would have meant to your HOF QB & HOF HC had the Patriots lost that game. I also admire that you admit openly that Pete Carroll's decision to throw as opposed to run was a huge twist of fate in your franchise's favor. It was. 

 

You take some unwarranted criticism from blue horseshoe fans occasionally AMF, but I appreciate your candor. Keep it up.  Regarding Butler, the violation if there was one, is meaningless to me. I'm just curious if he's the real deal or not. Future seasons will tell or not I guess.

 

Regarding Brady, he earned all his SBs legitimately to me. He's a lock for the HOF. I will still watch him, but to me he lied about not knowing that footballs were under inflated. Does that make him evil? No. Do I still like him as a competitor? Yes. Am I disappointed he lied? Yes. Brady's a nice guy. I just am bewildered as to how he can claim he had no knowledge of what happened. I'm not the smartest guy on the planet but I wasn't born yesterday either. Just come clean & this controversy loses it's venom very swiftly.   Don't give me this nonsense that he'll address his integrity after his appeal either. You either hold another press conference & clear the air or the silence speaks for itself. If it were me, I'd say where & when do you want me? Let's deal with this issue ASAP. 

[HOZER]

I agree but I think you have to have balance with your kids too. Gamesmanship, pushing rules, etc. happens all the time at every level of competitive sports. From what I have already seen and experienced in just a few years, youth sports is as corrupt as pro sports maybe more so because of the politics and absence of a governing body to make sure things are fair. And of course the stakes are sky high because scholarships are on the line and potential pro careers. Like I said, at some point you have to evaluate how much you want to participate as a fan and as a parent how far you want to expose your kids. I have not liked much of what I have seen thus far and I am not even at high school level yet.

Must be a regional thing? I have been a coach for several youth sports teams and have not experienced anything close to corruption....what I have encountered is psycho parents who try to live vicariously through thier children and try to teach them to "win at any cost."

[amfootball]

Must be a regional thing? I have been a coach for several youth sports teams and have not experienced anything close to corruption....what I have encountered is psycho parents who try to live vicariously through thier children and try to teach them to "win at any cost."

Really? I have seen politics up and down and every which way from the way soccer teams are selected, who gets to play, who gets moved along to the top teams, etc. My experience with parents has not been the "win at any cost" mentality but the "my kid is the best therefore play her on the top team."  It has been very difficult on many levels. As someone who loves sports and loves that my kids are athletic, it has been brutal. Maybe it is regional but I have friends in South Carolina who say it is similar there.

[southwest1]

2-14 . . . . nuff said

Watching QBs Curtis Painter & Kerry Collins play in 2011 as Peyton Manning's replacement was pretty abysmal Yehoodi. I can't lie. Some of the worst football I have ever seen played in my life.  Brutal doesn't even begin to describe it. The bizarre thing is that I thought with Collins we were getting the 2000 SB QB or even the Panthers QB of old. Boy, was I wrong. He looked like a dude with 2 cement bricks tied to his feet. Jesus, it was so horrendous man. This is why I was so impressed with what BB did with Matt Cassel in 2008, still his best football season in the NFL to date with a 10-6 franchise starting record. 

 

INDY's QB goes down & we unravel; NE's gunslinger goes down & they still have a respectable season. It's very impressive. 

 

Oh he was referring about tanking. Colts didn't tank, they played hard to win every game.

I agree Shane we didn't tank intentionally, but watching the ease with which Painter threw picks at the worst possible times in games & how slowly Kerry Collins moved in an ever collapsing pocket, I really can't blame anyone thinking we were trying to sabotage the season. I remember saying on more than one occasion  that season "God darn it, are we really this bleeping bad?! Are we trying to lose?" Sigh...So, I can't condemn anyone for thinking that. I'm not slamming the players; I'm criticizing GM Bill Polian who openly said he believed Painter could carry the load in Manning's absence & he was wrong about that." I do give Bill a ton of credit for coming clean about that mistake in judgement which took a lot of guts.