Who to cut next?

[Valpo2004]

for those who don't like the werner draft pick they would really hate it if Walden wasn't here to hide it some. Walden has been what they hope Werner can become an edge setting linebacker who can get to the QB every so often. That doesn't mean Walden can't improve, he can, but as has been pointed out he's hardly as bad as some want him to be.

 

We're upside down on Werner anyways. . . His first 3 year's salary was fully guaranteed.  Can't cut him til next year and we would then get 1.4 Mil in cap savings.

[Jason_]

Wouldn't be shocked to see Chapman go. Of the 2012 class still on the roster, he is the weakest link. If you're Grigs and you're thinking about the 2012 guys you have to re-sign, Chapman is going to cross your mind. When you look at the good young NTs who will hit the FA market, and also factor in how deep that position group is in the draft, it's hard to see why you would keep him.

 

Not going to save a lot of money by cutting him, but there are better options out there. Let Hughes be the backup NT to who ever you bring in.

 

Reasons I WOULD be shocked if Chapman is let go:

 

1. still on rookie contract, and was a 5th round pick so he's dirt cheap

2. he only has one full year's experience as a starter and really only 2 years playing experience in the NFL

3. to piggy back on #2, he showed improvement from year 1 to year 2

4. he played well far more often than he played poorly.  the few games where he did get manhandled were games where the entire defense was manhandled.  I can't think of a single time when Chapman was the sole weak link.

[Defjamz26]

Reasons I WOULD be shocked if Chapman is let go:

 

1. still on rookie contract, and was a 5th round pick so he's dirt cheap

2. he only has one full year's experience as a starter and really only 2 years playing experience in the NFL

3. to piggy back on #2, he showed improvement from year 1 to year 2

4. he played well far more often than he played poorly.  the few games where he did get manhandled were games where the entire defense was manhandled.  I can't think of a single time when Chapman was the sole weak link.

 

1. I don't think that applies this off-season. We can't be talking about how Grigson should bring in big names like McCourty, Suh, or Houston, and then say well let's keep Chapman cuz he's cheap. It's a hypocritical view.

 

2. And he hasn't flashed any type of big time potential in that time. It doesn't matter if people feel NT is a de-valued position or not, it matters in a 3-4. You won't win in the trenches with sub-par NT play. He's easily the worst player on our line

 

3. If anything it's because he played more snaps. Also improvement means little if the improvement is going from looking like a rookie with no experience to looking like a below average starter. What's his celiling? Average? Better than some?

 

4. Only in the sense that he didn't play like absolute trash every game. Some games he was "tolerable". But that's not a compliment. You want a game where the defense held and he was the one who got manhandled? Playoff game vs the Bengals. Russell Bodine handled him all game long. Piggy backing on what I said in 2 though, even during the times where our whole D gets demolished, he's still the worst player on that line

 

Think about it. If I said name the weakest link in terms of starters on our D (not including the people who have been released) who would you say it was?

[NewColtsFan]

I don't know why some here want Walden cut?

His year 2 was much, much better than his year 1.

He played very well for us, and when he wasn't in I don't think our defense was as good.

He doesn't even make that much money.[/quot

I'm with you Walden had a good yr brings intensity we need.

Don't see the rush on Godser thought post 6/1 was best bet anyway

Thomas needs to go he's never on the field Wanting to cut Waldeb surprises me,

Off topic what do you think about Quarkes I like him think he came out a yr early and if he used his time well on the PS has a chance to be a nice rotational guy for us. He's quick off the ball can get to QB long arms, I am interested to see what's up with him

 

I'm modestly hopeful on Quarles.   I hope a year on the PS has helped him mature physically and emotionally.   Learn how to be a professional.    As to Gosder....   I don't know how the 6/1 rule works?    I don't know if that means you literally have to wait until 6/1 or later to release him,   or if you can release him now, or whenever you want, and simply make that designation.

 

The latter is what I think is what happens because that gives the player the best chance to get released early enough to sign on with another team.    That strikes me as the most fair thing,  but again,  I don't know...

[Jason_]

1. I don't think that applies this off-season. We can't be talking about how Grigson should bring in big names like McCourty, Suh, or Houston, and then say well let's keep Chapman cuz he's cheap. It's a hypocritical view.

 

2. And he hasn't flashed any type of big time potential in that time. It doesn't matter if people feel NT is a de-valued position or not, it matters in a 3-4. You won't win in the trenches with sub-par NT play. He's easily the worst player on our line

 

3. If anything it's because he played more snaps. Also improvement means little if the improvement is going from looking like a rookie with no experience to looking like a below average starter. What's his celiling? Average? Better than some?

 

4. Only in the sense that he didn't play like absolute trash every game. Some games he was "tolerable". But that's not a compliment. You want a game where the defense held and he was the one who got manhandled? Playoff game vs the Bengals. Russell Bodine handled him all game long. Piggy backing on what I said in 2 though, even during the times where our whole D gets demolished, he's still the worst player on that line

 

Think about it. If I said name the weakest link in terms of starters on our D (not including the people who have been released) who would you say it was?

 

1.  I haven't been saying Grigson should be bringing in any of those players, especially Suh. However my point wasn't necessarily that we will keep Chapman throughout the season because he's cheap, but rather that cutting him now makes no sense because he's cheap.  Now if he winds up getting outplayed by several players in training camp and preseason then sure.  But right now, it makes no sense.

 

Besides, you should know by now that the best teams build from the draft with some FA acquisitions.  Building by bringing in big name (and big money) free agents seldom works out.  At some point.  You have to let your players develop...and you're not doing that if you're giving up on them after only 1 or 2 years.

 

2. I disagree about him not having flashed any kind of potential.  I would say the opposite in fact.  He showed more athleticism than I expected from him, and should he be able to drop a few pounds and increase his stamina, he could become a much better player.

 

3. of course he's going to start of looking like a rookie with no experience.  That's what he was.  And in one year he went from that to, imo, at least an average starter.  His ceiling?  No idea.  It's too soon to know.  Which is yet another reason not to give up on him so quickly.

 

4. I completely disagree.  He was not "absolute trash" in any game.  He was far better than "tolerable" in most games.  You're calling him the worst player on the DL?  Well that DL consists of Chapman and then Redding and Jones.  Redding and Jones are multi-year vets.  They definitely should be better than a 2nd year NT.  That's just common sense.

 

Who is the weakest link in terms of starters?  I would not say Chapman.  Personally I would rather see upgrades at ILB and Safety before upgrading NT.  Now, if another NT is brought in and that guy outplays Chapman then so be it.  However, at the very worst, Chapman is a good rotational player, and for what he's being paid there's nothing at all wrong with that.

 

But hey, you want him cut?  What about Thornton and Holmes?  They haven't lit the world on fire yet.  Do we give up on them and cut them too?  Hughes hasn't really proven to be any better than Chapman.  Cut him too?  I know a lot of people are down on Werner so let's put him on the chopping block as well.  Screw player development, let's just cut everyone that's not a playmaker and bring in every big name free agent that we can.  That's the way to build a championship team all right.

 

Or, just maybe, we give the guys a realistic chance to develop into the players they were thought to be when they were drafted. 

[GoColts8818]

We're upside down on Werner anyways. . . His first 3 year's salary was fully guaranteed. Can't cut him til next year and we would then get 1.4 Mil in cap savings.

i am not suggesting Werner should be cut. I just saying that pick would look even worse without walden.

[Warhorse]

Because were ready to make a trip to the super bowl and he cant even get to the quarterback...

Is that Grigson's benchmark or yours?

 

"Erik’s a good football player," Colts coach Chuck Pagano said last week at the scouting combine. " I think back to some of the guys we had in Baltimore, the edge-setters. When we went out and find outside linebackers, when we go looking for them in the draft or free agency, the first criteria is they have to be able to set the edge. Erik did a great job of that. Like anybody else, you have your moments. He can set the edge. He has pass-rush capabilities. 

" He’d be the first one to tell you he could be better as far as a pass-rusher, and he’ll go to work at that in the offseason. As far as helping us up front and helping our front seven, I’m really pleased with Erik.” 

 

Doesn't sound to me like that is the front office's benchmark.

[Superman]

I don't know how the 6/1 rule works?    I don't know if that means you literally have to wait until 6/1 or later to release him,   or if you can release him now, or whenever you want, and simply make that designation.

 

The latter is what I think is what happens because that gives the player the best chance to get released early enough to sign on with another team.    That strikes me as the most fair thing,  but again,  I don't know...

 

Each team is allowed two post-June 1 designations, prior to June 1, per year. So a player can be released in March, but designated as a post-June 1 release. The player can sign immediately, but the team can't use the cap space until after June 1.

 

I'm not sure if teams have to wait until a certain date to release a player and still use the designation.

[Superman]

1. I don't think that applies this off-season. We can't be talking about how Grigson should bring in big names like McCourty, Suh, or Houston, and then say well let's keep Chapman cuz he's cheap. It's a hypocritical view.

 

It's only a hypocritical view if you think Chapman is a bad player and doesn't justify his contract. Chapman is decent. His salary is $660K in 2015. I don't think he's an issue at all, and even if we did "upgrade" the position in the offseason, I doubt Chapman would be released prior to final cuts.

[Warhorse]

About 1/3 of the fan base...........

[throwing BBZ]

I don't know why some here want Walden cut?

 

His year 2 was much, much better than his year 1.

 

He played very well for us, and when he wasn't in I don't think our defense was as good.

 

He doesn't even make that much money.

 

 The guy makes a few plays and he be plays VERY WELL.

 Over the season he was pretty much just a decent body.

 At best he is mediocre in space, and decent against the run. A depth guy at $4M?

 He is a 110% guy and i respect him a great deal for that.

 I hope we land a FA that offers higher expectations.

[throwing BBZ]

Reasons I WOULD be shocked if Chapman is let go:

 

1. still on rookie contract, and was a 5th round pick so he's dirt cheap

2. he only has one full year's experience as a starter and really only 2 years playing experience in the NFL

3. to piggy back on #2, he showed improvement from year 1 to year 2

4. he played well far more often than he played poorly.  the few games where he did get manhandled were games where the entire defense was manhandled.  I can't think of a single time when Chapman was the sole weak link.

 

 Chapman was fine. These people love Redding and but never blast his poor run D. And our ILB`ers played a bunch of bad run D, including DQ.

[NewColtsFan]

Each team is allowed two post-June 1 designations, prior to June 1, per year. So a player can be released in March, but designated as a post-June 1 release. The player can sign immediately, but the team can't use the cap space until after June 1.

 

I'm not sure if teams have to wait until a certain date to release a player and still use the designation.

 

Uuugh....   if we can't use the cap space until after June 1,  that's disappointing.

 

I know we've signed players after 6/1 before, but still....

 

Either way,  thanks for the great 411....    always very much appreciated.   

[Superman]

Uuugh....   if we can't use the cap space until after June 1,  that's disappointing.

 

I know we've signed players after 6/1 before, but still....

 

Either way,  thanks for the great 411....    always very much appreciated.   

 

We'll have plenty of cap space. For Cherilus, it's a difference of $4m in 2015. So if that's what happens, then that cap space can be earmarked for the regular season reserve the team usually keeps, or it can be used later on as extensions are done for the 2012 draft class. Not a big deal, I don't think.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Superman
correction

[NewColtsFan]

Reasons I WOULD be shocked if Chapman is let go:

 

1. still on rookie contract, and was a 5th round pick so he's dirt cheap

2. he only has one full year's experience as a starter and really only 2 years playing experience in the NFL

3. to piggy back on #2, he showed improvement from year 1 to year 2

4. he played well far more often than he played poorly.  the few games where he did get manhandled were games where the entire defense was manhandled.  I can't think of a single time when Chapman was the sole weak link.

 

For the record,  (and I've said this before)  Chapman was my 2nd favorite pick after Luck in the 2012 class.

 

He was the right player used at the right pick at the right time.    First pick of the 5th round was perfect for a guy who should be a dominating nose tackle.

 

Problem is....   he hasn't been a dominating nose tackle.   We get gashed by the running game in the middle of our defense.  That's Chapman's space.   If he's doing his job the LBers should be able to do theirs.   But it looks like Chapman gets pushed around and blockers are free to go to the 2nd level and take on our LBers.

 

I still like Chapman.   And I expect him to be much better this coming year.   But I expect more than what we've seen so far.  Perhaps even a lot more.    Maybe that's unreasonable,  but I don't think so until someone can show me otherwise....

 

I expect Chapman back....  and I look forward to him living up to the hype... 

[Jason_]

For the record, (and I've said this before) Chapman was my 2nd favorite pick after Luck in the 2012 class.

He was the right player used at the right pick at the right time. First pick of the 5th round was perfect for a guy who should be a dominating nose tackle.

Problem is.... he hasn't been a dominating nose tackle. We get gashed by the running game in the middle of our defense. That's Chapman's space. If he's doing his job the LBers should be able to do theirs. But it looks like Chapman gets pushed around and blockers are free to go to the 2nd level and take on our LBers.

I still like Chapman. And I expect him to be much better this coming year. But I expect more than what we've seen so far. Perhaps even a lot more. Maybe that's unreasonable, but I don't think so until someone can show me otherwise....

I expect Chapman back.... and I look forward to him living up to the hype...

I agree mostly to a point but I do think it's very unrealistic to expect him to be consistently dominant in his first year as a full time starter. I also don't think the running up the middle is entirely on him either. At times yes but at times but the DEs need to help as well. There were times Chapman held his double team but a guard was able to slip off the DE to get to the lbers.

So no, he's not perfect by any means but for his experience level I thought he played well and I do think he can improve...probably significantly

[throwing BBZ]

for those who don't like the werner draft pick they would really hate it if Walden wasn't here to hide it some. Walden has been what they hope Werner can become an edge setting linebacker who can get to the QB every so often. That doesn't mean Walden can't improve, he can, but as has been pointed out he's hardly as bad as some want him to be.

 

 Right. Werner had as many solo tackles as Walden had total tackles. So Walden had a couple more sacks against DUD teams.

 Walden was decent depth.

[CanuckColt]

Cherilus has a cap hit of $6.9M this year (2015), $9.9M in 2016, $10.4M in 2017...is he worth it???

[NewColtsFan]

Cherilus has a cap hit of $6.9M this year (2015), $9.9M in 2016, $10.4M in 2017...is he worth it???

 

For 16 and 17....  no.

 

For 15....   maybe.  

 

Guess it depends on what doctors say and whether the team feels it can replace him with better for same or less....

[rock8591]

Werner only 24 years old and has plenty of time to get better. Walden already has overachieved.

 

I saw some good things from the former last year; though not so much in the sack dept, he def had many good solo-tackles and TFLs at clutch times.

[coltsXnation]

I don't know I just hope they don't cut nobody knows go to make an impact

[In Luck We Trust]

Because were ready to make a trip to the super bowl and he cant even get to the quarterback...

he had 6 sacks this last season. that is a half a sack less then the team leader who was newsome who had 6.5 sacks. so i would say he got to the QB more then anyone else on the team other then newsome

[bap1331]

Erik Walden got to the QB with more frequency than Terrell Suggs, Jason Worilds, Paul Kruger and Tamba Hali? Just to name a few...

Well...he needs to get to tom brady...

[bap1331]

I don't know I just hope they don't cut nobody knows go to make an impact

Werner only 24 years old and has plenty of time to get better. Walden already has overachieved.

I saw some good things from the former last year; though not so much in the sack dept, he def had many good solo-tackles and TFLs at clutch times.

I would love to believe that but if newsome as a rookie has more impact then something is wrong...

[Superman]

Well...he needs to get to tom brady...

 

If we're going to base everything on how the team played against the Pats, then the Colts should just be disbanded.

 

Thankfully, that's not how it works.

[Jason_]

Well...he needs to get to tom brady...

 

ok so now we're cutting players who couldn't get to Tom Brady?  I guess we're drafting and signing 24-25 new defensive players then?

 

 

I would love to believe that but if newsome as a rookie has more impact then something is wrong...

 

Newsome is a better pure speed edge rusher than Werner, but as of right now, Werner is better in virtually every other way as an OLB.

[The Motto]

I see no reason to cut GC or Walden.  Walden will be even better this year at his normal position with Mathis back.  And like its been noted he doesn't get paid THAT much.  GC is a good player when healthy and we have other needs who is going to play RT if we cut him? I want to be able to go mostly D in the draft.

[PeterBowman]

Well...he needs to get to tom brady...

hard to get to Brady when most all they do are passes in less than 2 seconds

[Jason_]

I see no reason to cut GC or Walden.  Walden will be even better this year at his normal position with Mathis back.  And like its been noted he doesn't get paid THAT much.  GC is a good player when healthy and we have other needs who is going to play RT if we cut him? I want to be able to go mostly D in the draft.

 

the one possible reason for cutting Cherilus is if they fear he'll never get back to pre-injury form.  I'm totally with you on Walden though.