manziel or RG3

[Bobbycovert]

In a league that has guys like Sanchez, Geno, Fitzpatrick and as recently as last year Vince Young getting second and third chances, Robert Griffin getting another chance isn't all that farfetched. Obviously the talent is there. He has an arm and he can make plays. Every QB has problems deciphering defenses every now and then. What Griff has on rookies is experience and a superb draft grade when he was coming out. Couple that with a great rookie season from only two years ago and it is definitely something a quarterback needy franchise can work with. Guys like Joe Flacco and Andy Dalton or even Eli in the past aren't thought of as great leaders, but they were quiet guys who led by example. Griff is a bit flashy yes but you don't need a ra ra Drew Brees out there in order to lead your team.

I think the likelihood of Griffin starting for another team eventually and finding at least some success is higher than him just busting out of the league completely. I just don't think his best days are behind him.

 

     I agree with you on the Sanchez, Geno, Fitz thing.  I could definitely see Griffin popping back up in a year or two as a serviceable journeyman type.  His experience would be great if he had been a success. But as it stands now, teams know he is a reclamation project.  His draft grade no longer matters.  There is no guesswork involved.  He isn't a good NFL quarterback and it doesn't matter what his wonderlic score and time in the 40 were.  His rookie year was an absolute mirage created by clever coaches installing an unfamiliar gimmick (think wildcat).  As far as what you said about leadership, is "flashy" now a synonym for %$#hole?  Flacco ,Dalton, and Eli have had their ups and downs but they have never been a cancer.

 

     I've been trying to think of a situation similar to this where the QB turned things around and had a successful career.  Closest I can think of is Brees but that is an awful comparison.  Brees could play.  He was just coming off a career threatening shoulder injury and hadn't lit it up in San Diego.  

 

     Is there a good example I'm overlooking?

[dw49]

Sure scouts can be wrong, it'd be insane if they never were. But teams picking in the top five are doing so for a reason. With the exception of Young and Russell, one a headcase and the other lazy as a koala bear, those others didn't land in very good situations. Hell even Sam Bradford, when healthy and playing with a good offense and an even better defense, didn't exactly blow teams out of the water. Cam did for some time but now seems to be getting more and more average every game. I think someone mentioned this in another thread, but there haven't been many homerun quarterbacks in the Draft the past few years. Even guys who started off hot like Matt Ryan are struggling.

As far as Griffin's footwork and all that, it can be taught. Guys like Rivers, McNair and Favre have shown that you don't need great mechanics to win football games, it is about discipline and drive. I haven't suggested Griffin doesn't have weapons on offense, but Alfred Morris isn't the same back he was two years ago and you said it, Griffin's line hasn't exactly been great, and that goes back to his first and second year. I'm optimistic for the guy is all I'm saying. I'm not here to make excuses.

 

He'll no doubt have another chance to turn things around. But man .. this guy looks like he's going to be in "no man's land " following his 3rd year. I'm just not sure he has the proper attitude to " clean up his game."  

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Yeah, having Peyton Manning on your team helps win divisions, ask the Broncos. You can enjoy that all you want, but the Texans are aspiring for Super Bowls, not just division titles. I know that you like beating on your chest, but it is clear that Jim Irsay's Colts are still some time away from competing for SBs themselves, you might want to put the blue koolaid down mate. Red tastes much better.

As far as Robert Griffin is concerned, I guess all the draft pundits and scouts were wrong when he was debated as either the number one or number two pick. The guy was phenomenal his rookie year and will continue to be phenomenal if given the right chance on a good team. His story in the NFL isn't over yet.

 

Were all looking forward to our team appearing in a SB . No matter how far away the Colts may seem there in a better position to get there by winning the AFC South so IMHO that means the Texans are once again a step behind the Colts always a brides maid never a bride .

 

And yes a lot of people jumped on the RG3 bandwagon I'm glad to see your still in the front row  till the bitter end . The hype has fizzled out .

[Qwiz]

     I agree with you on the Sanchez, Geno, Fitz thing.  I could definitely see Griffin popping back up in a year or two as a serviceable journeyman type.  His experience would be great if he had been a success. But as it stands now, teams know he is a reclamation project.  His draft grade no longer matters.  There is no guesswork involved.  He isn't a good NFL quarterback and it doesn't matter what his wonderlic score and time in the 40 were.  His rookie year was an absolute mirage created by clever coaches installing an unfamiliar gimmick (think wildcat).  As far as what you said about leadership, is "flashy" now a synonym for %$#hole?  Flacco ,Dalton, and Eli have had their ups and downs but they have never been a cancer.

 

     I've been trying to think of a situation similar to this where the QB turned things around and had a successful career.  Closest I can think of is Brees but that is an awful comparison.  Brees could play.  He was just coming off a career threatening shoulder injury and hadn't lit it up in San Diego.  

 

     Is there a good example I'm overlooking?

Kurt Warner came off the bench after having to back up Matt Leinart and led his team to the Super Bowl. Mark Sanchez after being horrid in New York is now on a team in position to win its division, though of course there is no way we can say successful career right now based on that. I can't think of many rags to riches success stories when it comes to quarterbacks right now, but I don't think that just because it isn't common doesn't mean it can't happen for Robert Griffin.

[Qwiz]

He'll no doubt have another chance to turn things around. But man .. this guy looks like he's going to be in "no man's land " following his 3rd year. I'm just not sure he has the proper attitude to " clean up his game."  

Yeah, I guess we'll find out. All it takes for some guys is for them to be humbled to get back on the right track.

[Qwiz]

Were all looking forward to our team appearing in a SB . No matter how far away the Colts may seem there in a better position to get there by winning the AFC South so IMHO that means the Texans are once again a step behind the Colts always a brides maid never a bride .

 

And yes a lot of people jumped on the RG3 bandwagon I'm glad to see your still in the front row  till the bitter end . The hype has fizzled out .

You haven't won the division yet my friend ;) The bride was wearing red and blue in 2011 and 2012, and as crazy as this season has been there's a chance it could happen again sooner than we think. The game that is coming up in two weeks is going to have a lot of impact. I didn't know Griffin had a bandwagon; He's been pretty well-followed since high school. It's not like him getting the attention of ESPN was a new thing but hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Bobbycovert]

Kurt Warner came off the bench after having to back up Matt Leinart and led his team to the Super Bowl. Mark Sanchez after being horrid in New York is now on a team in position to win its division, though of course there is no way we can say successful career right now based on that. I can't think of many rags to riches success stories when it comes to quarterbacks right now, but I don't think that just because it isn't common doesn't mean it can't happen for Robert Griffin.

 

I think that's a fair way to look at it.  If nothing else it'll be interesting to watch.  Btw congrats on the win. Your team looked really good today.

[Qwiz]

I think that's a fair way to look at it.  If nothing else it'll be interesting to watch.  Btw congrats on the win. Your team looked really good today.

Thanks. The Colts did too, I'm sure, if the score is any indicator.

[dw49]

Yeah, I guess we'll find out. All it takes for some guys is for them to be humbled to get back on the right track.

 

 

And some guys never learn. I mean possible... sure. What often hurts is some guys lose a little desire after they rake in around 24 mill. In any event it will be interesting to see where he plays in 2015 and 2016 and just how much of a chance he's given to start again.

[dw49]

Yeah, I guess we'll find out. All it takes for some guys is for them to be humbled to get back on the right track.

 

 

He just has so much to "clean up." Look at the Colts fans clamoring all over this forum that Andrew Luck holds on to the ball way too long. I was just looking at the leading passers and their stats and was a little surprised to find this.

 

 

Luck was sacked 21 times in 491 attempts. That would be 1 for every 23 attempts.

Rodgers              25 in 380    1 for every 15 attempts.

Wilson                 31 in 335    1 for every 11 attempts . Surprised me a bit as well as Rodgers. 

 

RG3 was sacked an incredible 20 times in 119 passing attempts. Man .. that's just a sign this guy has no clue and is probably back to square one as far as the sped of the NFL game. 

 

* some other notable sack ratios....

 

Manning 1 for every 37 attempts

 

Brady    1 for every 30

 

Romo    1 for  13.5

 

Ben        1 for 15

[chad72]

Whoa... wait a minute we are talking about Johnny Manziel right out of A&M?  Imo of course but I watched him play a whole lot (I live in Texas) and he has no where near the physical tools of RG3 and absolutely 0 football sense.  His whole mantra was throw to a big receiver high before I get hit and hope he makes a play.  Literally...

 

Johnny Football might actually get a chance now. We will see what he does.

 

There are lots of folks who want him to fail. There are lot of folks who think he would fail.

 

I am in the minority, I believe he can turn his maturity around and harness his talent with the right coaching and circumstances.

[BpG]

Whoa... wait a minute we are talking about Johnny Manziel right out of A&M?  Imo of course but I watched him play a whole lot (I live in Texas) and he has no where near the physical tools of RG3 and absolutely 0 football sense.  His whole mantra was throw to a big receiver high before I get hit and hope he makes a play.  Literally...

 

 

I don't know what you're watching, Manziel had some of the best "sense" or instincts I've ever seen in a college QB. IF he were 6'2 he would have been the 1st overall pick no questions asked. 

 

From everything you've written here it sounds like you "watched" a lot of ESPN highlights and that's it. 

[Surge89]

Johnny Football might actually get a chance now. We will see what he does.

 

There are lots of folks who want him to fail. There are lot of folks who think he would fail.

 

I am in the minority, I believe he can turn his maturity around and harness his talent with the right coaching and circumstances.

 

Ah understood.

 

I won't lie I'm in the section of extremely biased and hope he fails.  I don't like him as a person and have family who have seen and entangled with his antics.  Don't mess with Manziel's is common speak down in Texas

[Qwiz]

He just has so much to "clean up." Look at the Colts fans clamoring all over this forum that Andrew Luck holds on to the ball way too long. I was just looking at the leading passers and their stats and was a little surprised to find this.

 

 

Luck was sacked 21 times in 491 attempts. That would be 1 for every 23 attempts.

Rodgers              25 in 380    1 for every 15 attempts.

Wilson                 31 in 335    1 for every 11 attempts . Surprised me a bit as well as Rodgers. 

 

RG3 was sacked an incredible 20 times in 119 passing attempts. Man .. that's just a sign this guy has no clue and is probably back to square one as far as the sped of the NFL game. 

 

* some other notable sack ratios....

 

Manning 1 for every 37 attempts

 

Brady    1 for every 30

 

Romo    1 for  13.5

 

Ben        1 for 15

  There are other factors involved...was it the center who missed a call? Did a runningback miss a block? Did Griffin himself miss out on an audible he should have called? Though you are right that these numbers are troubling, Griffin was out for an extended period of time this season with injury, and hasn't had much of any actual game time with his offense, a new offense that he just learned this offseason. It could contribute to some poor play as well.

[dw49]

  There are other factors involved...was it the center who missed a call? Did a runningback miss a block? Did Griffin himself miss out on an audible he should have called? Though you are right that these numbers are troubling, Griffin was out for an extended period of time this season with injury, and hasn't had much of any actual game time with his offense, a new offense that he just learned this offseason. It could contribute to some poor play as well.

 

 

Must be Gruden thought it was fair .

[Qwiz]

Must be Gruden thought it was fair .

Yeah, I guess he's the end all be all to all things fair.

[dw49]

Yeah, I guess he's the end all be all to all things fair.

 

 

Dunno. You and I sit on a couch while he's paid millions to make make these kinds of calls. I'm not in the locker room. I don't see practices , I don't watch the films after games. But I do know that both he" AND" RG3 said the sacks were on RG. But if I'm unfair saying a sack every 6 pass attempts is pretty bad ... so be it. The guy did get benched for Colt McCoy....

[sweetsurrender]

Dunno. You and I sit on a couch while he's paid millions to make make these kinds of calls. I'm not in the locker room. I don't see practices , I don't watch the films after games. But I do know that both he" AND" RG3 said the sacks were on RG. But if I'm unfair saying a sack every 6 pass attempts is pretty bad ... so be it. The guy did get benched for Colt McCoy....

And if anyone wanted Griffin to succeed it was Gruden. The Skins are at ground zero again at the most important position in football AND out all those picks.

[dw49]

And if anyone wanted Griffin to succeed it was Gruden. The Skins are at ground zero again at the most important position in football AND out all those picks.

 

 

What happens to him next year is really a story in itself. It's the last year of his rookie deal as they for sure won't elect for the 5th year option this April. Do they even keep him and give him a chance to win the starting job next year ? Doesn't really make sense as he probably would choose to move on anyway. The only way Washington could "win" by him starting 1n 2015 is he was good enough to get him to the post season or good enough to franchise tag him and then trade him. I think by benching him for a non prospect type guy in McCoy , they are going to just move on. I'm not buying all that talk about him still "being in their long range plans."

[sweetsurrender]

What happens to him next year is really a story in itself. It's the last year of his rookie deal as they for sure won't elect for the 5th year option this April. Do they even keep him and give him a chance to win the starting job next year ? Doesn't really make sense as he probably would choose to move on anyway. The only way Washington could "win" by him starting 1n 2015 is he was good enough to get him to the post season or good enough to franchise tag him and then trade him. I think by benching him for a non prospect type guy in McCoy , they are going to just move on. I'm not buying all that talk about him still "being in their long range plans."

I think he is done in DC. They won't get much for him after Gruden openly trashed his game and then benched for McCoy. Really the skins botched the handling of this guy from day one. I am not saying he does not have his part to play but we always knew the Redskins were dysfunctional under Snyder but never to this degree...

[Shane Bond]

I will take Manzeil over RG Any day.

[dw49]

I think he is done in DC. They won't get much for him after Gruden openly trashed his game and then benched for McCoy. Really the skins botched the handling of this guy from day one. I am not saying he does not have his part to play but we always knew the Redskins were dysfunctional under Snyder but never to this degree...

 

 

I tend to agree with you that the Skins will cut ties this offseason. If they get a 3rd , they'll be lucky. I'm thinking a 4th. Do you have any idea what an absolute bath this is ? If you look up the value of the picks they gave up for him , it comes out to about 5400 points. If they receive a mid 3rd round pick , that would be valued at 190 points. So better than 96% of that huge investment.

[Qwiz]

Dunno. You and I sit on a couch while he's paid millions to make make these kinds of calls. I'm not in the locker room. I don't see practices , I don't watch the films after games. But I do know that both he" AND" RG3 said the sacks were on RG. But if I'm unfair saying a sack every 6 pass attempts is pretty bad ... so be it. The guy did get benched for Colt McCoy....

Sure. For a guy that people like to load on for being unaccountable and irresponsible, Griffin owning up to his sacks and even verifying his statements that the media twisted are pretty mature and honorable things to do. Alex Smith got benched for Kaepernick but he is doing pretty well. Kurt Warner sat behind Leinart and he was still good enough for a SB run and another strong push. Getting benched doesn't mean you are just terrible and will not have a chance to win again. That isn't how this league works.

[sweetsurrender]

I tend to agree with you that the Skins will cut ties this offseason. If they get a 3rd , they'll be lucky. I'm thinking a 4th. Do you have any idea what an absolute bath this is ? If you look up the value of the picks they gave up for him , it comes out to about 5400 points. If they receive a mid 3rd round pick , that would be valued at 190 points. So better than 96% of that huge investment.

I would be shocked if they got a third at this point.

 

The value lost is unreal. When the NFL Network does its next biggest draft blunders show this will be number one.

[dw49]

Sure. For a guy that people like to load on for being unaccountable and irresponsible, Griffin owning up to his sacks and even verifying his statements that the media twisted are pretty mature and honorable things to do. Alex Smith got benched for Kaepernick but he is doing pretty well. Kurt Warner sat behind Leinart and he was still good enough for a SB run and another strong push. Getting benched doesn't mean you are just terrible and will not have a chance to win again. That isn't how this league works.

 

 

I'm not sure how the Kurt Warner thing really applies to RG3. Warner was 35 years old playing on a 2-8 team that decided to go "young " with Leinart. He had played about the same for the previous 3- years. QB ratings with Giants and AZ of about 86. Lienart hit the wall and they went back to Warner. Just so happened that AZ had some talent "blossom "that one year and they went to the SB. One guy was an older guy on the backside of his career while RG3 is a QB that is as we speak totally lost as an NFL pocket QB. Alex Smith is a guy that took a while to develop. Although he didn't have dynamite receivers (RG does) to throw to , I'll give you that comparison.

 

Now if you want to go by NFL history and point out Alex Smith , I'll point out how many highly drafted QB's that flamed out with their original team end up to be successful QB's . I did this earlier in the thread and I'm sure it was accurate and valid . So I'm not sure you telling me "this is not how the NFL works" is a good statement. While I've never said he's finished in the NFL , I'll stand by my statement that the Redskins will jettison this guy off and just take their monster beating. I'm saying that as we speak , RG3 is a terrine QB and if not , Gruden wouldn't be benching him for Colt McCoy. Now if that's mean or unfair of me... ehhh what can I say ?

[dw49]

I would be shocked if they got a third at this point.

 

The value lost is unreal. When the NFL Network does its next biggest draft blunders show this will be number one.

 

 

Do you realize how stupid Washington will look if this guy tears it up with another team ? It's taking a tremendous amount of conviction by Gruden to bench him for McCoy. Unless I'm crazy and they really do still plan on developing RG3 ? Could they ever really sing him to a new contract if he was successful in 2015 as a Redskin ? Man... just a hard scenario to imagine..

[sweetsurrender]

Do you realize how stupid Washington will look if this guy tears it up with another team ? It's taking a tremendous amount of conviction by Gruden to bench him for McCoy. Unless I'm crazy and they really do still plan on developing RG3 ? Could they ever really sing him to a new contract if he was successful in 2015 as a Redskin ? Man... just a hard scenario to imagine..

Kind of like Johnson and Ryan watching Sanchez tear it up in Philly? Brutal. I can see RG going somewhere and having success based on nothing else than the Redskins being the epitome of dysfunctional.

[Qwiz]

I'm not sure how the Kurt Warner thing really applies to RG3. Warner was 35 years old playing on a 2-8 team that decided to go "young " with Leinart. He had played about the same for the previous 3- years. QB ratings with Giants and AZ of about 86. Lienart hit the wall and they went back to Warner. Just so happened that AZ had some talent "blossom "that one year and they went to the SB. One guy was an older guy on the backside of his career while RG3 is a QB that is as we speak totally lost as an NFL pocket QB. Alex Smith is a guy that took a while to develop. Although he didn't have dynamite receivers (RG does) to throw to , I'll give you that comparison.

Now if you want to go by NFL history and point out Alex Smith , I'll point out how many highly drafted QB's that flamed out with their original team end up to be successful QB's . I did this earlier in the thread and I'm sure it was accurate and valid . So I'm not sure you telling me "this is not how the NFL works" is a good statement. While I've never said he's finished in the NFL , I'll stand by my statement that the Redskins will jettison this guy off and just take their monster beating. I'm saying that as we speak , RG3 is a terrine QB and if not , Gruden wouldn't be benching him for Colt McCoy. Now if that's mean or unfair of me... ehhh what can I say ?

Oh boy. So having "dynamite" receivers means you have to have monster stats or else? It doesn't always happen that way for QBs. Smith was on a good team for a long time. Even took them to consecutive NFC Championships if I'm not mistaken. Still got benched, which is what I'm getting at and you aren't seeing. Benching=no chance to do anything of substance in this league to you, based on your responses. I've addressed your flaming out thing already but you've ignored it. Feel free to look at it again if you want.

As far as "what can I say"? Well you didn't have to say anything at all. Our conversation had run its course and I thought that it was done. I even liked your last post, since it seemed like a concluding one. That wasn't enough, I guess, and you just had to come back with the attempts per pass thing. But if you want to continue on something that neither of us knows for sure about in this thread then sure, continue. But it will sound like a broken record player in my next post I'm sure.

[dw49]

Oh boy. So having "dynamite" receivers means you have to have monster stats or else? It doesn't always happen that way for QBs. Smith was on a good team for a long time. Even took them to consecutive NFC Championships if I'm not mistaken. Still got benched, which is what I'm getting at and you aren't seeing. Benching=no chance to do anything of substance in this league to you, based on your responses. I've addressed your flaming out thing already but you've completely ignored it. Feel free to look at it again if you want.

As far as "what can I say"? Well you didn't have to say anything at all. Our conversation had run its course and I thought that it was done. I even liked your last post, since it seemed like a concluding one. That wasn't enough, I guess, and you just had to come back with the attempts per pass thing. But if you want to continue on something that neither of us knows for sure about in this thread then sure, continue. But it will sound like a broken record player in my next post I'm sure.

 

 

None of the guys you mention were 3rd year players that a team paid 3 1's and a 2 to draft him. Nor do you come up with a comparison that this kind of investment was benched in favor of a back up QB like Colt McCoy. What I said is the man had to play terribly to warrant that. What you seem to say is he's still a very good QB and will likely be a successful QB with another team. Thus I say "what can I say ?" Ohh and Smith was not on a good team for a long time. 

 

 

2005  4-12

2006  7-9

2007  5-11

2008  7-9

2009  8-8

2010  6-10

2011  13-3

2012   6-2-1  Benched and traded.

 

So not "many years with a very good team. More like 1.5 years. Plus he was playing very well in those last games with a good team. Had a 2011 QB rating of 92 and OVER 100 in the games he started (won most of them too) before being benched for Kap. This isn't real at all similar to RG 3's benching but I don't want to make issue with everything you put up. Fact it what happened to Smith was almost unheard of . I mean take a look at what KC gave up for him . the 34th pick in the 2013 draft PLUS a lower 2nd round pick in the 2014 draft. Huge payment.

[Qwiz]

None of the guys you mention were 3rd year players that a team paid 3 1's and a 2 to draft him. Nor do you come up with a comparison that this kind of investment was benched in favor of a back up QB like Colt McCoy. What I said is the man had to play terribly to warrant that. What you seem to say is he's still a very good QB and will likely be a successful QB with another team. Thus I say "what can I say ?" Ohh and Smith was not on a good team for a long time. 

 

 

2005  4-12

2006  7-9

2007  5-11

2008  7-9

2009  8-8

2010  6-10

2011  13-3

2012   6-2-1  Benched and traded.

 

So not "many years with a very good team. More like 1.5 years. Plus he was playing very well in those last games with a good team. Had a 2011 QB rating of 92 and OVER 100 in the games he started (won most of them too) before being benched for Kap. This isn't real at all similar to RG 3's benching but I don't want to make issue with everything you put up. Fact it what happened to Smith was almost unheard of . I mean take a look at what KC gave up for him . the 34th pick in the 2013 draft PLUS a lower 2nd round pick in the 2014 draft. Huge payment.

Sooo you think the 9ers suddenly got good in 2011 after having a superb roster including Gore, Willis, Davis, etc.? What does 3 1s and a 2 have to do with anything? Does that make his chance for later success less likely just because a team gave up that much for him? My comparison with Alex Smith was for one thing: Even good players can get benched. And getting benched doesn't mean you have to give up on football completely or lose hope in doing good somewhere else. Because Alex is doing pretty good in KC, and I think Robert can do good as well wherever he ends up playing.

[jvan1973]

I'm not of that opinion, but of course you are more than welcome to yours.

he can't even remember if the play is a three, five or seven step drop. He is terrible and that isn't going to change. Colt McCoy took his job for crying out loud

[Qwiz]

he can't even remember if the play is a three, five or seven step drop. He is terrible and that isn't going to change. Colt McCoy took his job for crying out loud

I'm sure that's a good analysis Coach Gruden, tell me more about what you know about Robert. Aka, I think you pulled that one out of your donkey.

[jvan1973]

I'm sure that's a good analysis Coach Gruden, tell me more about what you know about Robert. Aka, I think you pulled that one out of your donkey.

Its not what i think, its what his coach knows

"His footwork was below average," Gruden said after the game. "He took three-step drops when he should have taken five. He took a one-step drop when he should have taken three, on a couple occasions, and that can't happen. He stepped up when he didn't have to step up, and he stepped into pressure. He read the wrong side of the field a couple times."

I guess Gruden is wrong too though

[Qwiz]

Its not what i think, its what his coach knows

"His footwork was below average," Gruden said after the game. "He took three-step drops when he should have taken five. He took a one-step drop when he should have taken three, on a couple occasions, and that can't happen. He stepped up when he didn't have to step up, and he stepped into pressure. He read the wrong side of the field a couple times."

I guess Gruden is wrong too though

So he makes mistakes during one game (and he could have been forced to take extra steps depending on the blocking of the line) and all of a sudden he doesn't know anything about dropbacks at all? I'm sure you could teach an NFL QB how to do it just like you can teach Manziel, who may start this week, how to read a playbook. So whether Griffin steps up or steps back he does it wrong. But whatever, you're right, Gruden is the coach. And you know coaches are never wrong about anything of course.

[jvan1973]

So he makes mistakes during one game (and he could have been forced to take extra steps depending on the blocking of the line) and all of a sudden he doesn't know anything about dropbacks at all? I'm sure you could teach an NFL QB how to do it just like you can teach Manziel, who may start this week, how to read a playbook. So whether Griffin steps up or steps back he does it wrong. But whatever, you're right, Gruden is the coach. And you know coaches are never wrong about anything of course.

I know they know a lot more than we do The coach said he is unable to run the offense. He needs remedial training on the position. He is a monster bust

[Qwiz]

I know they know a lot more than we do The coach said he is unable to run the offense. He needs remedial training on the position. He is a monster bust

Maybe the Colts will give up a first rounder for him Nah but seriously I don't think he's a bust. Not until he's sitting on the couch having accomplished nothing at all could he be considered as one.

[jvan1973]

Maybe the Colts will give up a first rounder for him Nah but seriously I don't think he's a bust. Not until he's sitting on the couch having accomplished nothing at all could he be considered as one.

So David Carr wasnt a bust?

[Qwiz]

So David Carr wasnt a bust?

Who said he wasn't? I'm pretty sure he got a ring but was a back up of course. And Carr was more a victim of circumstance than anything honestly.

[jvan1973]

Who said he wasn't? I'm pretty sure he got a ring but was a back up of course. And Carr was more a victim of circumstance than anything honestly.

He is still in the league. So by your assessment he isn't a bust. Bob can't play qb. Maybe he can be a runningback ala Denard Robinson

[Qwiz]

He is still in the league. So by your assessment he isn't a bust. Bob can't play qb. Maybe he can be a runningback ala Denard Robinson

Uhhhh, no. David Carr doesn't play in the NFL anymore, that would be his brother, Derek. I'm sure Bob Jackson, I guess that's Bo Jackson's son, can play runningback quite well. I expect Robert Griffin to be playing quarterback for a team sometime in the near future, realistically at the earliest next season unless Colt blows his opportunity.