Is Brady's arm 'shot'?

[amfootball]

I have not seen this comparison of Brady and Wilson that you mentioned. I suggest you research what Wilson's teammates say about him. Seeing that Wilson's team won an NFL championship recently by completely dominating a team which was superior on paper, I don't know from where you pulled that comment.

lol. Just do a search on Wilson/Brady and you will get a ton of hits. Here is a good one from April of this year, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10725050/russell-wilson-career-tom-brady-path

 

And I suggest YOU see what Brady's teammates and coaches have said about him over the years and he also won a ring in his second year beating an opponent that was favored to beat him by the biggest Super Bowl spread in NFL history at 14 points, second only to the Jets/Colts 1969 SB which had a spread of 18.

[thedude]

How many years has it been since a Brady led team won a championship?

[JerodMayo51]

No i am not. Ever watched Colts OL before?.

 

Quit whining guys. Figure out and find a way to play ball. 

 

He had hall of fame skill position players though who could create separation and get open

[amfootball]

How many years has it been since a Brady led team won a championship?

When you have 3, how many more do you need? Only two QBs in the history of the game have more than him and he at least made it back to the Super Bowl two more times since his third ring.

[JerodMayo51]

Mayo - Why are to trying to diminish what your future QB is doing?.

 

Because you're trying to insinuate a ridiculous point, completely ignoring context of what happened in the game.

 

He went up against a prevent defense and completed 6 passes... He had a total of 70 yards, 37 of which were off a bubble screen where the actual pass was for 0 yards.. Lafell broke a tackle and ran it for 37 YAC...

 

I like to see our young QB play well, but going in during garbage time when their opponent has an insurmountable lead and is playing a soft, prevent defense does not give any sort of insight or indication of his abilities as a professional quarterback.

 

 

Going by your logic, Garropolo is the best QB in the NFL if you're going by passer rating.. He has the #1 QBR in the entire NFL after only 6 completions!  Hes a BEAST!!!!

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&tabSeq=1&season=2014&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=false&conference=null&qualified=true

[Shane Bond]

Because you're trying to insinuate a ridiculous point, completely ignoring context of what happened in the game.

 

He went up against a prevent defense and completed 6 passes... He had a total of 70 yards, 37 of which were off a bubble screen where the actual pass was for 0 yards.. Lafell broke a tackle and ran it for 37 YAC...

 

I like to see our young QB play well, but going in during garbage time when their opponent has an insurmountable lead and is playing a soft, prevent defense does not give any sort of insight or indication of his abilities as a professional quarterback.

 

 

Going by your logic, Garropolo is the best QB in the NFL if you're going by passer rating.. He has the #1 QBR in the entire NFL after only 6 completions!  Hes a BEAST!!!!

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&tabSeq=1&season=2014&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=false&conference=null&qualified=true

All frustration talk my man.

 

Dont put words into my mouth.

 

I dont care if its garbage time or anything else. He had a great drive. Stop nitpicking his drive. For a rookie to make a first start in NFL, it was impressive.

[dw49]

lol. Just do a search on Wilson/Brady and you will get a ton of hits. Here is a good one from April of this year, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10725050/russell-wilson-career-tom-brady-path

 

And I suggest YOU see what Brady's teammates and coaches have said about him over the years and he also won a ring in his second year beating an opponent that was favored to beat him by the biggest Super Bowl spread in NFL history at 14 points, second only to the Jets/Colts 1969 SB which had a spread of 18.

 

 

What was the spread on the SD vs SF  SB ?    

[Surge89]

Wow.. now you're trying to draw comparisons between the loaded Broncos offense and Brady's offense that has been completely depleted of talent.  Manning picked the Broncos because they were STACKED.. hence Tim Tebow bringing them to the divisional round of the playoffs.

 

His offense is loaded with talent at every single position, with 3 super stars at skill positions... and Emmanual Sanders is approaching that status.  Brady also didn't refuse to take the field, Belichick sat him because the deficit became too great, the Chiefs defensive ends would have had a field day on his face in the backfield when they know he has to pass every single down and the Oline can't block anything.

 

 

While I don't agree with the whole Brady is average thing (I think he is one of the greatest of all time regardless of his circumstance, his circumstance is irrelevant he performed at the highest level for a long time) your reaching heavily if you think Manning chose the Broncos because they were "loaded".  Before Manning got there they were literally seen evenly with the Raiders with D. Thomas the best player on their offense and he was seen as a disappointment.  They supposedly had one good part on the o-line, a weak defense, and no one of any threat but D. Thomas (not proven) and Tamme who would be a sole product of Manning.

 

Also Emmanual Sanders was a no one.  Pit literally put rookies and older receivers ahead of him because of their lack of faith in the kid.  Not until he met with Manning is he putting up gaudy numbers.

 

One last point on the oline of Brady.  I do agree this is the worst oline I have ever seen the Pats have in the Belichek era, but the standard of which NE's oline has been far above league average.  Being a colts fan I have seen some extremely talent depleted olines for the past 6 or so years because we had a GM who couldn't see oline talent if they hit him with a stick.  Plus the few that he did sorta hit on either retired or got hurt and became useless... lol  So I feel ya man!

[Yehoodi]

While I don't agree with the whole Brady is average thing (I think he is one of the greatest of all time regardless of his circumstance, his circumstance is irrelevant he performed at the highest level for a long time) your reaching heavily if you think Manning chose the Broncos because they were "loaded".  Before Manning got there they were literally seen evenly with the Raiders with D. Thomas the best player on their offense and he was seen as a disappointment.  They supposedly had one good part on the o-line, a weak defense, and no one of any threat but D. Thomas (not proven) and Tamme who would be a sole product of Manning.

 

Also Emmanual Sanders was a no one.  Pit literally put rookies and older receivers ahead of him because of their lack of faith in the kid.  Not until he met with Manning is he putting up gaudy numbers.

 

One last point on the oline of Brady.  I do agree this is the worst oline I have ever seen the Pats have in the Belichek era, but the standard of which NE's oline has been far above league average.  Being a colts fan I have seen some extremely talent depleted olines for the past 6 or so years because we had a GM who couldn't see oline talent if they hit him with a stick.  Plus the few that he did sorta hit on either retired or got hurt and became useless... lol  So I feel ya man!

 

You do remember that the year before Manning got to Denver they won the division and a playoff game with Tim Tebow right? . .  . with D. Thomas and K. Moreno being first round draft stock . . . just saying . . . and the D had some solid talent with a some guys named Dumervil and a second overall pick in a guy named Von Miller . . .

 

8-8 with Tebow is not too shabby, and I would venue to say that the 52 players outside of the QB were a lot stronger than Oakland's 52 players outside of the starting QB . . .  

[Fx Stryker]

You do remember that the year before Manning got to Denver they won the division and a playoff game with Tim Tebow right? . . . with D. Thomas and K. Moreno being first round draft stock . . . just saying . . . and the D had some solid talent with a some guys named Dumervil and a second overall pick in a guy named Von Miller . . .

8-8 with Tebow is not too shabby, and I would venue to say that the 52 players outside of the QB were a lot stronger than Oakland's 52 players outside of the starting QB . . .

You forget Moreno and Thomas were viewed as busted picks before Peyton. D. Thomas didn't even know how to run a fade route. Let's not act like he was walking onto 49ers here.

Denver's offense was McGahee and Tebow running the ball. They backed into the playoffs because the West was so bad. And beat Pittsburgh because Ike Taylor can't play in high altitude conditions because of his blood disease.

[thedude]

I hope so. Brady looks really depressed out there like he expects things won't work. I hate to read into body language but just no fire from him from the opening kick.

I'm not a big Tom Brady fan.  I have always thought that he got way too much credit for the Pats success in the past.  But in all fairness, even when the Patriots were winning super bowls, there would be a couple of games every year where Brady looked lost and quite upset about the way things were going. I think he's just an easy guy to read when things are not going his way.

[Moose Of Woe]

 

 

One other q for you, if you have time, can you tell me right now where the Pats Oline ranks? I don't have any paid subscriptions to be able to look it up. Also in Manning's tenure with the Colts, did he ever have a line that ranked as low or lower than the Pats this year? Thanks Dustin.

Maybe not ranked that low, but I can assure you every season from 2007 onward our pass protection was just as abysmal. Possibly worse.  Oh, and they couldn't run block, either. Makes things wonderful for a QB when you're one dimensional and running for your life. 

 

Once Tarik Glenn retired after the SB we got world beaters like Ugoh while Polian let proven talent go.

 

I'd say Indy has a better line now than it did up until last season. At least Luck isn't running for his life on every snap like he used to. I was afraid he wouldn't survive his rookie season behind it let alone two.

 

The team, as a whole, was certainly worse the the Patriots now.

-No pass protection

-No run blocking/no good RB

-No defense

-Abysmal special teams

-Conservative coaching

 

Remember 2-14? We could have easily been 0-16. Guys like Peyton, Wayne, Clark, Freeney, Mathis carried the team to a winning season every year and the PLAYOFFS no less in spite of how poor the rest of the team was. We had a few studs and a lot of duds. It certainly helped to have a garbage division, too. I think our worst record was 9-7 apart from the 2-14 nightmare.

[amfootball]

What was the spread on the SD vs SF  SB ?    

I8. But San Fran covered. The Jets of 69 and the Pats of 01 were the biggest underdogs in the history of the Super Bowl to win it.

[amfootball]

Maybe not ranked that low, but I can assure you every season from 2007 onward our pass protection was just as abysmal. Possibly worse.  Oh, and they couldn't run block, either. Makes things wonderful for a QB when you're one dimensional and running for your life. 

 

Once Tarik Glenn retired after the SB we got world beaters like Ugoh while Polian let proven talent go.

 

I'd say Indy has a better line now than it did up until last season. At least Luck isn't running for his life on every snap like he used to. I was afraid he wouldn't survive his rookie season behind it let alone two.

 

The team, as a whole, was certainly worse the the Patriots now.

-No pass protection

-No run blocking/no good RB

-No defense

-Abysmal special teams

-Conservative coaching

 

Remember 2-14? We could have easily been 0-16. Guys like Peyton, Wayne, Clark, Freeney, Mathis carried the team to a winning season every year and the PLAYOFFS no less in spite of how poor the rest of the team was. We had a few studs and a lot of duds. It certainly helped to have a garbage division, too. I think our worst record was 9-7 apart from the 2-14 nightmare.

Our Oline is ranked dead last. Colts never had that. That being said, I expect it to improve. It really has to. But how much? I don't know.

[amfootball]

I'm not a big Tom Brady fan.  I have always thought that he got way too much credit for the Pats success in the past.  But in all fairness, even when the Patriots were winning super bowls, there would be a couple of games every year where Brady looked lost and quite upset about the way things were going. I think he's just an easy guy to read when things are not going his way.

He is emotional but I am not seeing the fire this year. The scuttle here is that he talking to Trent Dilfer and Steve Young about how depleted this team is of talent so they can be his mouthpiece to the public. I do think this has been an issue going back to last year when after losing Welker, Hernandez, Branch and Lloyd - Bill replaced those guys with the invisible Danny Amendola, rookies Dobson (been inactive the last two games) and Boyce (demoted to practice squad) and undrafted FA Thompkins (inactive the last two games). But I think the tipping point was the Mankins trade which has probably hurt Brady's confidence in the line the most.

 

I am starting to believe that this might be Brady's last year in NE because I think he wants out. I think he is tired of the beatings he is getting and the lousy weapons while he watches Manning get all his weapons and solid Oline and seeing the Ravens get Flacco a guy like Smith. I think it has finally all come to head for him. In some ways I don't blame him but he has to be bigger than this but maybe he sees the lack of talent this year all around on the O and is just struggling to mentally engage. And he really has to. He is the leader of that team so if he is not on board, the whole team will be lost.

[dw49]

I8. But San Fran covered. The Jets of 69 and the Pats of 01 were the biggest underdogs in the history of the Super Bowl to win it.

 

And I suggest YOU see what Brady's teammates and coaches have said about him over the years and he also won a ring in his second year beating an opponent that was favored to beat him by the biggest Super Bowl spread in NFL history at 14 points, second only to the Jets/Colts 1969 SB which had a spread of 18.

 

The above was your post and it's worded pretty poorly. I know the 9ers covered. I would add that KC pulled a bigger upset even though the line was smaller. If they had a money line back then , I'd bet KC was a bigger underdog than NE. 

[amfootball]

 

And I suggest YOU see what Brady's teammates and coaches have said about him over the years and he also won a ring in his second year beating an opponent that was favored to beat him by the biggest Super Bowl spread in NFL history at 14 points, second only to the Jets/Colts 1969 SB which had a spread of 18.

 

The above was your post and it's worded pretty poorly. I know the 9ers covered. I would add that KC pulled a bigger upset even though the line was smaller. If they had a money line back then , I'd bet KC was a bigger underdog than NE. 

 

Yea, could have worded better. I was talking about upsets vs the spread not the largest spreads overall. You may be right about KC but that would still be just two Super Bowls from the 60's vs the Pats in 2001 which is more the modern game. I still rank SB 36 as the biggest upset ever in Super Bowl history. Namath did not even play against Unitas. The Pats with a sixth round pick at QB in his first year as a starter beat the greatest show on turf ON turf with only a week to prepare.

[dw49]

Yea, could have worded better. I was talking about upsets vs the spread not the largest spreads overall. You may be right about KC but that would still be just two Super Bowls from the 60's vs the Pats in 2001 which is more the modern game. I still rank SB 36 as the biggest upset ever in Super Bowl history. Namath did not even play against Unitas. The Pats with a sixth round pick at QB in his first year as a starter beat the greatest show on turf ON turf with only a week to prepare.

 

 

That Colt in 1968 was not a John Unitas team. He was injured in the final pre season game . Threw 38 passes the entire regular season. Started 0 games that year. So pretty hard to make the statement you make. Those were the 1968 Colts. BTW... if you watched that whole game .. maybe you are too young... the Colts with any luck at all would have been up 14 to 21 points at half time rather than down 7. They totally stopped them selves early in the game and then the Jets picked up momentum.

[thedude]

The Jets beating the Colts back then was indeed the biggest upset in professional football. The AFL was considered the "pony league" by Most of the country. There's never been an upset nearly as shocking or impactful than that since.

And by that time Unitas's legacy as an all time great had already been established and he hardly played that season.

[dw49]

lol. Just do a search on Wilson/Brady and you will get a ton of hits. Here is a good one from April of this year, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10725050/russell-wilson-career-tom-brady-path

 

And I suggest YOU see what Brady's teammates and coaches have said about him over the years and he also won a ring in his second year beating an opponent that was favored to beat him by the biggest Super Bowl spread in NFL history at 14 points, second only to the Jets/Colts 1969 SB which had a spread of 18.

 

 

Back to this post a bit. You say "favored to beat "HIM" by the biggest margin" etc etc. You always seem to infer Brady won those SB's. The one you speak of he threw for about a buck and a half and set up a long FG attempt by AV. Other than that BB didn't let him even try much. Biggest joke of all time SB MVP award IMO. Anyway .. my question to you is did you see all of dan marino's career ? If so , I would like your opinion on how many SB's you think he wins if he played on all those NE teams. And naturally how many SB's does Tom Brady win if he played on those Miami teams ? Notice that I'll go along with your apparent belief that QB's win SB's and not teams.

[lollygagger8]

 

 

Sam Monson @PFF_Sam

Follow

Tom Brady is 1 for 13 on passes traveling 20+ yards in the air this year. Yikes.

6:58 PM - 23 Sep 2014

 

 

Yikes is right! 

[amfootball]

Back to this post a bit. You say "favored to beat "HIM" by the biggest margin" etc etc. You always seem to infer Brady won those SB's. The one you speak of he threw for about a buck and a half and set up a long FG attempt by AV. Other than that BB didn't let him even try much. Biggest joke of all time SB MVP award IMO. Anyway .. my question to you is did you see all of dan marino's career ? If so , I would like your opinion on how many SB's you think he wins if he played on all those NE teams. And naturally how many SB's does Tom Brady win if he played on those Miami teams ? Notice that I'll go along with your apparent belief that QB's win SB's and not teams.

The discussion was Brady/Wilson comparison which is why I said "he" as I was responding to Dude. The entire 2001 season was the embodiment of team as no one unit was superior to the other. The O was ranked sixth in points scored and the D was ranked sixth in points allowed. The STs were solid all year. Total team effort the whole way through with excellent coaching but it all started when #12 was inserted into the lineup. That can't be denied. Everyone in NE knows, no Brady, no rings. He did not do it by himself by any means but he plays the position that has the most effect on the outcome of games and he delivered in 2001.

 

Brady most definitely deserved the MVP of that Super Bowl for leading that GW drive with a 1:17 from inside his 20 with no time outs. That was a legendary drive for the ring. No doubt the defense played great for three quarters but were getting torched in the fourth quarter. It felt as if Warner put up 14 points in a blink. Had the Rams got the ball back in OT there is no doubt they win the game. That is why Bill did put the ball in Brady's hands at the end and asked him to go win it which he did.

 

The Marino question is interesting one. Most like to compare him with Montana and say would Marino have 4 rings instead of Joe if they reversed teams. And I believe Montana is on the record as saying Dan would have 4 and he would have zero. BUT, my only issue with Marino and I did watch his entire career and saw him often as he was in the Pats division, is that he could never beat Kelly's Bills. Marino had some great teams in the mid-80's and early 90's and could never beat Kelly. Also, 1985 which everyone glosses over was THE year for Marino to deliver. He had that lousy wild card Pats team coming into Miami in the AFCCG and he laid a big egg with a couple of picks and I think a fumble. I don't believe Dan really had the mental toughness like Montana and Brady to win in the post-season. He had several teams that were good enough to win it all but like I said, Kelly and the Bills owned him.

[amfootball]

That Colt in 1968 was not a John Unitas team. He was injured in the final pre season game . Threw 38 passes the entire regular season. Started 0 games that year. So pretty hard to make the statement you make. Those were the 1968 Colts. BTW... if you watched that whole game .. maybe you are too young... the Colts with any luck at all would have been up 14 to 21 points at half time rather than down 7. They totally stopped them selves early in the game and then the Jets picked up momentum.

I did not see it. But still that game was played when the game was in its dinosaur stages compared to today. The Pats are the most recent and modern team to do what the Jets did and pull the upset over a heavily favored SB opponent. There has not been close to another upset of that magnitude since 1969 except for the Pats vs Rams.

[Yehoodi]

You forget Moreno and Thomas were viewed as busted picks before Peyton. D. Thomas didn't even know how to run a fade route. Let's not act like he was walking onto 49ers here.

Denver's offense was McGahee and Tebow running the ball. They backed into the playoffs because the West was so bad. And beat Pittsburgh because Ike Taylor can't play in high altitude conditions because of his blood disease.

 

well they certainly were not the Raiders as was promoted by the poster that I quoted . . . then did what they did with a QB that can not even break in the league as a third string QB . . . which places him somewhere around 70-100 on the list of present NFL QBs . . . so not they were not the 49ers, but they were not chump change either . . . which was my point and I was addressing the last poster . . .

 

surely Peyton helped out the team, we all know that, but to say he walked into a perennial loser is not correct either . . .

[dw49]

I did not see it. But still that game was played when the game was in its dinosaur stages compared to today. The Pats are the most recent and modern team to do what the Jets did and pull the upset over a heavily favored SB opponent. There has not been close to another upset of that magnitude since 1969 except for the Pats vs Rams.

 

 

1970   Kanas City (+12) 23 Minn. 7.  Yes they were 12 compared to 14 but in reality a bigger underdog than NE. Reason being the games were lower scoring and hence the lines smaller. Even in 1986 , New England , a 10 point underdog had less of a chance to win the game than the one you speak of.

[amfootball]

1970   Kanas City (+12) 23 Minn. 7.  Yes they were 12 compared to 14 but in reality a bigger underdog than NE. Reason being the games were lower scoring and hence the lines smaller. Even in 1986 , New England , a 10 point underdog had less of a chance to win the game than the one you speak of.

Sure but the Rams were the most prolific offense at that time, especially on turf ("greatest show on turf") hence the spread being 14. Most thought the 14 was too low as well vs a Cinderella Pats team that got "lucky" in the snow bowl and was starting a hobbled sixth round pick at QB.

[thedude]

The Pats are the most recent and modern team to do what the Jets did and pull the upset over a heavily favored SB opponent.

I don't think so. I think a couple of those blow out loses Denver suffered, they may have been heavily favored to win. Not sure about that though.

I think Denver's win over Green Bay was a much bigger upset than the NE win over the Rams. Neiw England's win over the Rams was Maybe in the top 10, but not close to being one of the biggest ever.

[amfootball]

I don't think so. I think a couple of those blow out loses Denver suffered, they may have been heavily favored to win. Not sure about that though.

I think Denver's win over Green Bay was a much bigger upset than the NE win over the Rams. Neiw England's win over the Rams was Maybe in the top 10, but not close to being one of the biggest ever.

None of them were 14 point underdogs and they didn't win any of the Super Bowls which is the point I am making here - winning the Super Bowl as a 14 point dog. Only the Jets did vs a bigger spread of 18..

 

While I agree, Denver beating Green Bay was a big upset, Elway and Terell Davis who was super bowl MVP was far and away better than anything the Pats had in 2001. Remember Brady wasn't Brady then. Just a sixth round pick in the middle of a Cinderella year with a bum ankle to boot. Easily the biggest upset of the modern era vs the vaunted Rams who were a better team than the Packers of SB 32.

[thedude]

None of them were 14 point underdogs and they didn't win of the Super Bowls except for the one over Green Bay.

 

Denver was a 9 point underdog to Giants in SB 21; a 3 point favorite over Washington in SB 22; and a 12 point underdog to SF in SB 24; and a 12 point underdog to GB in SB 32.

 

While I agree, Denver beating Green Bay was a big upset, Elway and Terell Davis who was super bowl MVP was far and away better than anything the Pats had in 2001. Remember Brady wasn't Brady then. Just a sixth round pick in the middle of a Cinderella year with a bum ankle to boot. Easily the biggest upset of the modern era vs the vaunted Rams who were a better team than the Packers of SB 32.

. Green Bay was a heavy favorite over Denver. I know it was a double digit spread

[amfootball]

. Green Bay was a heavy favorite over Denver. I know it was a double digit spread

It was 12.

 

http://www.docsports.com/point-spreads-for-every-super-bowl.html

[thedude]

http://sportsbettingspot.com/nfl-football/news/the-biggest-upsets-in-super-bowl-history/

[thedude]

It was 12.

 

http://www.docsports.com/point-spreads-for-every-super-bowl.html

12 is double digits. I thought so. But then math was never my strong point.

[amfootball]

12 is double digits. I thought so. But then math was never my strong point.

lol. yeah, math is not my strong suit either. ;)  Still though 14>12 but I do remember how happy I was when Denver won that Super Bowl. It was a great game and I was happy for Elway. That game finally ended the NFCs domination of the AFC in SBs.

[Colts_Fan12]

Relax.

Why? he has a point YOU do it time and time again you and your buddies attack like a pack of starving dogs

[Colts_Fan12]

Guess again.

Never in the history of the NFL has a QB been put in a better situation to succeed than Brady.

You put Peyton on those New England teams, and he may have filled both his hands with rings.

Brady would have been an above average QB on any other team.

Watch out buddy I agree with you but most will rip into you for stuff like this no matter how true lol

[amfootball]

Why? he has a point YOU do it time and time again you and your buddies attack like a pack of starving dogs

A pack? Really?

[thedude]

There does seem to be a mob mentality with some here. Some of them will ever argue against their previously stated position just to join in and have their say.

[sweetsurrender]

Watch out buddy I agree with you but most will rip into you for stuff like this no matter how true lol

Sigh ... now there are two of you?

[Shane Bond]

 

Sam Monson @PFF_Sam

Follow

Tom Brady is 1 for 13 on passes traveling 20+ yards in the air this year. Yikes.

6:58 PM - 23 Sep 2014

 

 

Yikes is right! 

 

 

Must be the fault of the entire offensive line, WRs, Tight ends, Running Backs, Offensive Coordinator and all offensive coaches but Tom Brady.

[Colts_Fan12]

A pack? Really?

Yes you pats fans are like vultures except for a few who are normal the rest only come to tells us colts fans how magnificent Tom and bill are every damn day