Colin Kaepernick Looking for $18 million per year(similar to Cutler/Romo)

[Jaric]

Also, the Rams did exactly what your taping about with the Redskins. They have an absurd amount of draft picks yet still suck because their QB is incredibly average (or hurt).

[Iancolts]

Jaric is right you mine as well just give them the afc south banner before the season starts

[esmort]

I believe the Niners have a ton of picks again, so just draft Garropolo and let him sit for a year and allow Kap to hit FA next offseason.

And I heard on the radio that Harbaugh spent quite a bit of time with Garropolo at his pro day today lol

 

I would love to see this happen ... let Kap go find a new team next year that isn't stacked across the board and see if he is worth $18 mil.  Knock that over inflated ego down a few pegs. I bet the Niners wouldn't miss a beat.

[Dustin]

 

Not at all. At that time I was all for drafting Luck. 

 

 

 

[Beauregarde]

Also, the Rams did exactly what your taping about with the Redskins. They have an absurd amount of draft picks yet still suck because their QB is incredibly average (or hurt).

It doesn't fit your profile. They had a franchise QB on hand that they had to pay a ton of money to because it was on the old rookie scale. They simply decided to stick with what they had. They are building a power house there. They are the perfect example of why you don't get a franchise QB (Bradford) before you are ready to support him with a good O-Line and a defense. He got hurt because he got hit hard often. It could have happened to the Colts and Andrew Luck.

[Jaric]

Sam Bradford has yet to prove he is a franchise QB. Being drafted in the first round doesn't mean you're a franchise QB. It means the team who drafted you thought you were. Many QBs don't make the transition from college to the pros.

That simple fact is what makes your argument that we should have passed on Andrew Luck all the more absurd.

[The Old Crow]

Joe's deal has really skewed things in terms of the QB market. I am sure every agent uses him as the example to pay for wins vs. mediocre stats.

I will take the wins and pay for them any day. I think we all know Joe is a 16-18 million dollar QB, but unusual circumstances and leverage broke his way.

[Naptown Lifer]

very true, and he's probably the main reason that Flacco got that huge deal

no that would be rahim moore

[Naptown Lifer]

Yes, you won a playoff game. You survived an absurd three pick game by your new QB, gave up 40 points and still managed to win. I don't think the Colts are ahead of anything. They just happen to play in the weakest division in the NFL. It won't be so easy this year. Houston could easily win that division.

if youre a colts fan why are you refering to other fans as "you", "they" as a fellow fan shouldnt you say we won , we did etc? i just feel like you have some reason to pretend youre a fan but youre not idk

[Naptown Lifer]

very true, and he's probably the main reason that Flacco got that huge deal

no the reason flacco got a big deal was rahim moore

[Beauregarde]

if youre a colts fan why are you refering to other fans as "you", "they" as a fellow fan shouldnt you say we won , we did etc? i just feel like you have some reason to pretend youre a fan but youre not idk

Not at all. Just a poor choice in pronouns. I am a fan and I have been since the days of Johhny U.

[Naptown Lifer]

Not at all. Just a poor choice in pronouns. I am a fan and I have been since the days of Johhny U.

i believe you, it just sounded like you werent because of those pronouns like u said. who am i to question some ones fandom 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

at these insinuations

[Naptown Lifer]

I will take the wins and pay for them any day. I think we all know Joe is a 16-18 million dollar QB, but unusual circumstances and leverage broke his way.

honestly i wouldnt pay more than 12 million for joe, 15 tops for winning the super bowl. he is the definition of average and i gurantee his contract will screw the ravens up for a long time. t

[amfootball]

I will take the wins and pay for them any day. I think we all know Joe is a 16-18 million dollar QB, but unusual circumstances and leverage broke his way.

Yes, I agree and that is why I think many average QBs who have won a lot on the strength of their team like Kaep will use Flacco's deal as leverage.

[sweetsurrender]

if youre a colts fan why are you refering to other fans as "you", "they" as a fellow fan shouldnt you say we won , we did etc? i just feel like you have some reason to pretend youre a fan but youre not idk

And yet your avatar is a picture of the Denver Broncos QB ...

[The Old Crow]

honestly i wouldnt pay more than 12 million for joe, 15 tops for winning the super bowl. he is the definition of average and i gurantee his contract will screw the ravens up for a long time. t

I think Super Bowl MVP gets you to the 16-18 million dollar area. He also got them to three AFC Championship games , and five playoff berths. It wasn't just Moore either, he outplayed Luck , Manning , Brady, and Kaepernick. Not exactly a light foursome to beat. Sure the Ravens have been good over the years, but a bad quarterback wouldn't have beaten any of those guys, much less getting a Super Bowl MVP. Joe is a good, above average quarterback , who manages the game well, has a cool demeanor , and fits the Raven 's system. With the salary cap going up, and the likely extension to come similar to Ray Lewis and Suggs, Joe will be in Baltimore a long time, and work out an extension that works for him , and the team, so that they can surround him with the right players. I have faith in Joe, and that faith got us another Super Bowl ring, which he was a huge part of. Yes, he had a bad year, but he had no offensive line , running game, and lost three out of his four best receivers for a large part of the season.

I hear people on this forum talking about winning now with Luck, etc. Flacco and the Ravens already won , our window shut, we blew up the team, and we started rebuilding. We were 8-8, one win away from

the playoffs, while Atlanta was 3-13, and Houston 2-14. Flacco was 8-8 with a rebuilding team, while Ryan and Schaub, who people compare him to, had those records and those teams certainly expected to contend, and were not rebuilding.

In coaching, you can't look at just pure stats, but intangibles. Joe Flacco knows how to win, and in 6 seasons he has never had a losing season. That is worth a few million, Rhaim Moore, or not.

[Beauregarde]

i believe you, it just sounded like you werent because of those pronouns like u said. who am i to question some ones fandom 

Actually, I think I used them because he has "his" view of the Colts and I had "mine". But you are still correct, it was not proper useage.

[Beauregarde]

And yet your avatar is a picture of the Denver Broncos QB ...

It is? I picked at random because I liked the action but I would take Peyton as an avatar any time.

[Beauregarde]

Sam Bradford has yet to prove he is a franchise QB. Being drafted in the first round doesn't mean you're a franchise QB. It means the team who drafted you thought you were. Many QBs don't make the transition from college to the pros.

That simple fact is what makes your argument that we should have passed on Andrew Luck all the more absurd.

I don't get your argument. The Rams took Bradford on the old rookie scale and paid him a ton of money. He wasn't just drafted in the first round, he was drafted number one, just like Luck. However, the rest of the team wasn't ready to win and Bradford has taken a beating. They are still stuck with paying him and they still think he is their franchise QB. Sam Bradford is the prime example for my argument that you should not draft a franchise QB until the team is ready to win. The Colts could have had and may still have the same thing happen to Luck (serious injuries) and they would take about a ten year hit and have to rebuild again. Just like the Rams have had to do.

[sweetsurrender]

It is? I picked at random because I liked the action but I would take Peyton as an avatar any time.

I had quoted Naptown not you. He has the avatar of Peyton ....

[Beauregarde]

I had quoted Naptown not you. He has the avatar of Peyton ....

Oh, sorry. I had people questioning my pronoun usage and whether I was a Colts fan. I just want them to build quickly to get to the SB before Luck's big dollar contract makes that more difficult. I don't think people have adjusted to the new rookie pay scale and the opportunities is presents. The Seahawks, Ravens and the 49ers did see that and made quick use of it. It is just my opinion, of course. I think this year's draft will tell the future a bit. If the Texans draft a QB with the number one pick the status quo is on. However, if they pick Clowney or trade down and pick up a QB in the second or third round while bringing in a vet to hold the fort down until that QB is ready to play (which might be this year), a new formula for building a winner is being used. The number one pick will be the best player instead of the best QB as it has been for most of the last twenty years.

[Jaric]

I don't get your argument. The Rams took Bradford on the old rookie scale and paid him a ton of money. He wasn't just drafted in the first round, he was drafted number one, just like Luck. However, the rest of the team wasn't ready to win and Bradford has taken a beating. They are still stuck with paying him and they still think he is their franchise QB. Sam Bradford is the prime example for my argument that you should not draft a franchise QB until the team is ready to win. The Colts could have had and may still have the same thing happen to Luck (serious injuries) and they would take about a ten year hit and have to rebuild again. Just like the Rams have had to do.

Again where he gets drafted is irrelevant.

If the Houston Texans draft "Jaric" with their number one overall pick, that's not going to make me a franchise QB. Considering I'm 33 and throw inaccurate ducks likely to opposing defenses, I'm going to be a bust despite my draft position.

You've been arguing that the right call would have been for the Colts to pass on Luck, trade the number one pick, then try and pick up a QB later once we've built a team that only needs a QB.

What I find personally baffling, is that you are saying this with the benefit of having been able to watch Andrew Luck play for two years in the NFL. We know he's the real deal. Anyone who denies that hasn't been paying attention.

If you want to say that the options the Texans have don't equate to franchise QBs and so they should go a different direction, that's one thing. I'm no scout but I'd probably agree with you. None of the top 3 guys really blow me away. We'll see since at least one (probably two) will be starting in our division soon.

Being in a position to draft a franchise QB is like holding a winning lottery ticket. You don't wait to cash it in until the time is perfect because it's unlikely you'll be able to get another one when you decide the time is right.

[Beauregarde]

Again where he gets drafted is irrelevant.

If the Houston Texans draft "Jaric" with their number one overall pick, that's not going to make me a franchise QB. Considering I'm 33 and throw inaccurate ducks likely to opposing defenses, I'm going to be a bust despite my draft position.

You've been arguing that the right call would have been for the Colts to pass on Luck, trade the number one pick, then try and pick up a QB later once we've built a team that only needs a QB.

What I find personally baffling, is that you are saying this with the benefit of having been able to watch Andrew Luck play for two years in the NFL. We know he's the real deal. Anyone who denies that hasn't been paying attention.

If you want to say that the options the Texans have don't equate to franchise QBs and so they should go a different direction, that's one thing. I'm no scout but I'd probably agree with you. None of the top 3 guys really blow me away. We'll see since at least one (probably two) will be starting in our division soon.

Being in a position to draft a franchise QB is like holding a winning lottery ticket. You don't wait to cash it in until the time is perfect because it's unlikely you'll be able to get another one when you decide the time is right.

You are not stating my position correctly and you never have. I do not know if you are being intentionally obtuse or are just a troll. I would have drafted Andrew Luck when we did because that was the standard way to build a winner then. I love his play. I am overjoyed that he has survived one of the worst beatings in NFL history. Not all number one draft pick QBs do survive that (Bradford, David Carr, Couch and many, many more).

 

What I have said and I will continue to say until I see something to show me differently is that a new way to win has been caused by the new CBA and new rookie scale. I don't think teams rebuilding will take a QB with the number one pick just because that is they way it has been done for several decades. They are going to look at what the Seahawks, 49ers and Ravens did and adopt that model. Build your team so that you are a QB away from being a SB contender. Now, trade up, do what every you have to and find that QB. You can bring in a veteran to guide the team while you do that search.

 

Right now the NFL has changed regarding running backs. For years they were high first round draft choices. Now, no one (except the Colts via trade) want to give up a number one pick for a running back. Oh, it will occasionally happen with a once in a decade talent but that will be rare. Why? Because the game has changed and the NFL GMs are changing with it.

 

So, to make is clear, if Andrew Luck was in the draft this year and the Colts had the number one pick and were offered a boat load of number one and two picks for his rights, I would take the picks and build the team using a veteran QB and draft a lower round QB to develop and keep doing that until I find the right one. That is the new Super Bowl recipe. I think it will also end the days of teams giving a huge number of picks for any QB. So, I would probably still have taken Luck unless they were making crazy offers. Do you get it now?

[amfootball]

You are not stating my position correctly and you never have. I do not know if you are being intentionally obtuse or are just a troll. I would have drafted Andrew Luck when we did because that was the standard way to build a winner then. I love his play. I am overjoyed that he has survived one of the worst beatings in NFL history. Not all number one draft pick QBs do survive that (Bradford, David Carr, Couch and many, many more).

 

What I have said and I will continue to say until I see something to show me differently is that a new way to win has been caused by the new CBA and new rookie scale. I don't think teams rebuilding will take a QB with the number one pick just because that is they way it has been done for several decades. They are going to look at what the Seahawks, 49ers and Ravens did and adopt that model. Build your team so that you are a QB away from being a SB contender. Now, trade up, do what every you have to and find that QB. You can bring in a veteran to guide the team while you do that search.

 

Right now the NFL has changed regarding running backs. For years they were high first round draft choices. Now, no one (except the Colts via trade) want to give up a number one pick for a running back. Oh, it will occasionally happen with a once in a decade talent but that will be rare. Why? Because the game has changed and the NFL GMs are changing with it.

 

So, to make is clear, if Andrew Luck was in the draft this year and the Colts had the number one pick and were offered a boat load of number one and two picks for his rights, I would take the picks and build the team using a veteran QB and draft a lower round QB to develop and keep doing that until I find the right one. That is the new Super Bowl recipe. I think it will also end the days of teams giving a huge number of picks for any QB. So, I would probably still have taken Luck unless they were making crazy offers. Do you get it now?

Interesting thoughts but I don't think you can say that the Ravens and Seahawks were intentionally building their teams and then plugging in a QB. The Ravens drafted Flacco in the first round and deemed them their guy from the get go and he was not part of the rookie cap either. And while they did a nice job of filling around Joe that playoff run was Joe's show. They won the ring in large part due to his unbelievable play in the post-season - 11 Tds to zero picks.

 

I also do not believe the Seahawks were intentionally trying to build a team first as they had given up a number 2 and a boat load of money to the Packers for Flynn. They got lucky with Wilson in the same way the Pats did with Brady.

 

To even suggest the Colts NOT take Luck in any draft is just foolish. The most important piece on any team is the QB as like you said teams are shying away from RBs in favor of the passing attack as the rules favor the passing game.

 

It has always taken a team to win the SB and the QB has always been the main cog with the exception of Trent Dilfer and a few others over the past five decades of Super Bowls.

[Beauregarde]

Interesting thoughts but I don't think you can say that the Ravens and Seahawks were intentionally building their teams and then plugging in a QB. The Ravens drafted Flacco in the first round and deemed them their guy from the get go and he was not part of the rookie cap either. And while they did a nice job of filling around Joe that playoff run was Joe's show. They won the ring in large part due to his unbelievable play in the post-season - 11 Tds to zero picks.

 

I also do not believe the Seahawks were intentionally trying to build a team first as they had given up a number 2 and a boat load of money to the Packers for Flynn. They got lucky with Wilson in the same way the Pats did with Brady.

 

To even suggest the Colts NOT take Luck in any draft is just foolish. The most important piece on any team is the QB as like you said teams are shying away from RBs in favor of the passing attack as the rules favor the passing game.

 

It has always taken a team to win the SB and the QB has always been the main cog with the exception of Trent Dilfer and a few others over the past five decades of Super Bowls.

We will see. It hasn't worked so far with Rams and Sam Bradford. It hasn't worked for many number one pick QBs. Trent Dilfer is no longer the exception. You have three of those type QBs in the last two Super Bowls. I was not suggesting that any of those three teams did it on purpose. In fact, I am sure they did not but what they have done is show the NFL a new and perhaps faster route to the Super Bowl because of the rookie pay scale. I got hooted down but I think you will see teams that are rebuilding like Pittsburgh, Atlanta, the Giants, Cowboys and a few others with high priced QBs, deal or cut those QBs to adopt the new model of put it all together first then get the QB. I'm not suggesting that will happen soon but if the 49er, Seahawk and Ravens model happens again, it could become the norm. The next team prime to build this way is Houston. It is going to shock a lot of folks here if they take Clowney, draft a QB in the second or third round. If they do that, I could see the Texans contending for the Super Bowl almost immediately. I have been around for a while. I remember when the conventional wisdom was that you did not draft QBs with high picks because it took several years of being a back-up to learn the pro game. That is not so long ago. It only changed when the NFL became a primarily passing league and some first rounders like Peyton Manning and others showed they could play from game one. Even Brett Farve sat on the bench for a season or two. The list of lower round QB selections who starred in the NFL is about as long as the ones who made it in the first two or three picks in the first round. I am watching but I am betting a corner has been turned and building a great defense and an O-line will become more important that drafting a QB first. The QBs will stay healthier with that approach too. We are might fortunate that Andrew has taken so much punishment and is still upright. It didn't happen that way for all franchise QBs.

[Jaric]

You are not stating my position correctly and you never have. I do not know if you are being intentionally obtuse or are just a troll.

[snipped for space]

So, to make is clear, if Andrew Luck was in the draft this year and the Colts had the number one pick and were offered a boat load of number one and two picks for his rights, I would take the picks and build the team using a veteran QB and draft a lower round QB to develop and keep doing that until I find the right one. That is the new Super Bowl recipe. I think it will also end the days of teams giving a huge number of picks for any QB. So, I would probably still have taken Luck unless they were making crazy offers. Do you get it now?

How am I misstating your position? You said right here if we have the number one pick and Luck is on the board you trade the pick?

With the benefit of been able to watch him for two years, I find that baffling.

Oh and as to your "new model" about playing QB roulette until one finally hits, that's not new. Lots of teams have been doing that. It works about once every ten years or so.

[Beauregarde]

How am I misstating your position? You said right here if we have the number one pick and Luck is on the board you trade the pick?

With the benefit of been able to watch him for two years, I find that baffling.

Oh and as to your "new model" about playing QB roulette until one finally hits, that's not new. Lots of teams have been doing that. It works about once every ten years or so.

Once again, I did not say that I would have traded Luck when the Colts took him. However, if Andrew Luck came up this year and the Colts had the first round pick and I could get that same boat load of draft picks (three ones and three twos if I recall correctly) I would trade his rights and take the picks. I would use one of those picks to take someone like Derek Carr and bring in someone like Cassel to be the bridge to getting him ready to play. I believe that is the new model for building a team. We should be able to tell in a draft or two. Wouldn't it be something to see the 49ers let Kaep go and draft another QB in the second round who would be on his rookie contract and they could keep that team together? I don't think that will happen yet but it could be the wave of the future under this new CBA.

[Jaric]

So this year, you would trade him.  If two years ago the Redskin came calling to offer you what they did the Rams (say...plus 5%) you say no?

[Jaric]

Also, Matt Cassel is terrible. 

[amfootball]

We will see. It hasn't worked so far with Rams and Sam Bradford. It hasn't worked for many number one pick QBs. Trent Dilfer is no longer the exception. You have three of those type QBs in the last two Super Bowls. I was not suggesting that any of those three teams did it on purpose. In fact, I am sure they did not but what they have done is show the NFL a new and perhaps faster route to the Super Bowl because of the rookie pay scale. I got hooted down but I think you will see teams that are rebuilding like Pittsburgh, Atlanta, the Giants, Cowboys and a few others with high priced QBs, deal or cut those QBs to adopt the new model of put it all together first then get the QB. I'm not suggesting that will happen soon but if the 49er, Seahawk and Ravens model happens again, it could become the norm. The next team prime to build this way is Houston. It is going to shock a lot of folks here if they take Clowney, draft a QB in the second or third round. If they do that, I could see the Texans contending for the Super Bowl almost immediately. I have been around for a while. I remember when the conventional wisdom was that you did not draft QBs with high picks because it took several years of being a back-up to learn the pro game. That is not so long ago. It only changed when the NFL became a primarily passing league and some first rounders like Peyton Manning and others showed they could play from game one. Even Brett Farve sat on the bench for a season or two. The list of lower round QB selections who starred in the NFL is about as long as the ones who made it in the first two or three picks in the first round. I am watching but I am betting a corner has been turned and building a great defense and an O-line will become more important that drafting a QB first. The QBs will stay healthier with that approach too. We are might fortunate that Andrew has taken so much punishment and is still upright. It didn't happen that way for all franchise QBs.

You may want to read this, http://forum.walterfootball.com/showthread.php?9580-Super-Bowl-QB-winners-and-where-they-were-drafted

 

Of all the QBs to win SBs, 23 of them have been drafted in the first round. Here is the complete breakdown:

1st round - 23 wins

2nd round - 1 win

3rd round - 5 wins

4th round - 1 win

5th round - none

6th round - 4 wins

> 6th round - 6 wins

 

Of course Montana and Brady skew this somewhat as they have 7 rings between them and were taken in the third and six rounds respectively but overall taking a QB in round one is the quickest way to a championship.

 

I think you are letting the last couple of years skew your judgment. And remember Flacco was a first round selection and is getting paid like an elite QB now.

[Defjamz26]

This is all Flacco and Jerry Jones fault. The Flacco contract started it all. The Jones made it worse by paying one of the most un-accomplished QB's in the league a huge ridiculous deal. I'm sure that sparked a huge "Well if Romo got that much, I want that too. I've got more success". All of these agents are in a pissing contest to try and land their QB the $100+million dollar contract. It's a shame the QB market is so inflated.

[Iancolts]

Kap is not that good!

[dw49]

Once again, I did not say that I would have traded Luck when the Colts took him. However, if Andrew Luck came up this year and the Colts had the first round pick and I could get that same boat load of draft picks (three ones and three twos if I recall correctly) I would trade his rights and take the picks. I would use one of those picks to take someone like Derek Carr and bring in someone like Cassel to be the bridge to getting him ready to play. I believe that is the new model for building a team. We should be able to tell in a draft or two. Wouldn't it be something to see the 49ers let Kaep go and draft another QB in the second round who would be on his rookie contract and they could keep that team together? I don't think that will happen yet but it could be the wave of the future under this new CBA.

 

 

Where are you getting this "new model" from. First of all , none of those 3 teams you mentioned earlier did what you claimed they did. It just so happened they found their QB's in the 1st , 2nd and 3rd rounds. To my knowledge none of them ever passed on a top rated QB if they needed one in any recent drafts. It should also be noted that no team ( that I can think of ) that needed a QB has traded a pick when a top rated QB was available. Just the opposite is true. They will reach for a QB that should be going a half or full round later. Also should be noted that teams don't let their QB's hit the open market. The only one I can think of in the last 6-7 years is Denver trading Cutler.

 

Also ... if anything the new CBA will tend to make more teams gamble on a QB at the top of drafts as the penalty for missing is no longer a 60 mill contract with 35 mill guaranteed. 

[jvan1973]

Once again, I did not say that I would have traded Luck when the Colts took him. However, if Andrew Luck came up this year and the Colts had the first round pick and I could get that same boat load of draft picks (three ones and three twos if I recall correctly) I would trade his rights and take the picks. I would use one of those picks to take someone like Derek Carr and bring in someone like Cassel to be the bridge to getting him ready to play. I believe that is the new model for building a team. We should be able to tell in a draft or two. Wouldn't it be something to see the 49ers let Kaep go and draft another QB in the second round who would be on his rookie contract and they could keep that team together? I don't think that will happen yet but it could be the wave of the future under this new CBA.

The new CBA will do the exact opposite of what you're claiming. The risk isn't nearly as severe as it once was

[Gavin]

Also, Matt Cassel is terrible. 

93 TD'S and only 66 ints in 87(while only starting 68) games played is far from terrible, His problem is not that he is terrible, His problem is he cant stay healthy, The three seasons he played 15 or more games he has a combined 64 td's and 34 picks, Not an elite QB but capable of making a team a playoff contender if he could have stayed healthy in his career and with the right team who knows, He may have found himself in the SB  

[The Old Crow]

This is all Flacco and Jerry Jones fault. The Flacco contract started it all. The Jones made it worse by paying one of the most un-accomplished QB's in the league a huge ridiculous deal. I'm sure that sparked a huge "Well if Romo got that much, I want that too. I've got more success". All of these agents are in a pissing contest to try and land their QB the $100+million dollar contract. It's a shame the QB market is so inflated.

The price is only going to go up. 25 million for Luck !

[Kyle]

Yes, I agree and that is why I think many average QBs who have won a lot on the strength of their team like Kaep will use Flacco's deal as leverage.

 

*cough* Tom Brady *cough*

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

[Beauregarde]

The new CBA will do the exact opposite of what you're claiming. The risk isn't nearly as severe as it once was

No, the risk of making a draft mistake isn't as great but, it gives really good teams a number of years with a franchise QB on his rookie contract to have a very good team already on the field and be able to keep them until he breaks the bank.

[Jaric]

93 TD'S and only 66 ints in 87(while only starting 68) games played is far from terrible, His problem is not that he is terrible, His problem is he cant stay healthy, The three seasons he played 15 or more games he has a combined 64 td's and 34 picks, Not an elite QB but capable of making a team a playoff contender if he could have stayed healthy in his career and with the right team who knows, He may have found himself in the SB

I think he's a backup at best. If you expect any more than that you'll end up disappointed.