No Way Irsay Shows Bill Polian The Door At Season End

[PreManningColtsFan]

I listened to Mike and Mike this morning for nearly an hour straight as Peyton Manning and the Colts management dominated the conversation. As I listened to some very good radio, it dawned on me the reality of the success this franchise has experienced the last 10 years. Like BP or not, the bottom line is the man made some enormously successful draft pics that obviously all began with Peyton in '97. He then drafted Edge over at the time the all time leading rusher in college football, Ricky Willams. He goes on to get Reggie, Dallas Clarke, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders, Mathis and Bethea.

With the era of uncertainty and what is no doubt a very critical time period in this franchises history, I simply don't see Irsay handing Polian his pink slip and putting this process in someone else's hands. There simply is too much at stake and too many enormous decisions to be made.

No doubt BP has made terrible decisions starting with trading a high draft pick for the kid out of Arkansas (name is escaping me right now) to replace Tarik Glenn. He held onto Sanders for entirely too long and excluding our draft this past year, his picks over the last 4 years along with holding onto players too long (Sanders / Gonzo), his success in building the nucleus of this team is being diminshed. All that said, I just can't see Irsay going into this critical time without the man that was so instrumental in building the teams that spoiled us rotten for a decade. Like or not fellow Colts fan, IMO, BP is here for at least one more year. Now, if he stays and craps out in next years draft and possible free agency period and this team doesn't get on the path to success once again, at that time he will be terminated. Again, this is just my opinion. A rational one at that I might add.

[deadman]

I would say you are dead on. BP is the same guy that built all of our great teams of the past, and he knows what to do to fix the current situation.

BP is a 6 time NFL executive of the year and has had countless undrafted free agents and late round picks turn into studs. I think he gets a pass on his recent busts for now.

[jgstriker]

While Polian has some ingrained flaws that I think are holding this team back, and while he has made some terrrible early picks lately, his overall success can't be argued (outside of those elusive super bowl wins). He built the team and he maybe have had a successful draft this year. We shall see what happens

[deedub75]

I agree that BP has had tremendous success but sooner or later everyone gets older and loses his/her touch. He is human and just like the players, he has to retire sooner or later. If he were a player, we'd be saying he'd lost a step or two. You can't just judge a person on his past and you have to look at the present and what can be brought to the table in the future. Is BP willing or able to make the necessary changes needed to keep up with current football trends. The philosophy that has worked for him in the past may no longer work in today's game.

[presto123]

He built a team that is dead last in the Power Rankings right now. #32 I would say he has slipped quite a lot and was over-rated to begin with. Irsay will never let him go though. I would bet money on that as well.

[ReMeDy]

No, Polian did not make this team #32. Jim Caldwell did. Jim Caldwell needs to go, period.

Edited November 3, 2011 by ReMeDy

[chad72]

If Irsay does decide that change needs to be made at the top, there are candidates from draft oriented teams like the Packers or Steelers that can be obtained.

One of them is Reggie McKenzie of the Packers, here is his resume:

http://www.packers.c...0e-8a8cc786e1b5

He is an experienced scout, is now director of football operations and will make a good GM as well. He is not unproven by any means, definitely has done it longer than Chris Polian whose gene pool got him the GM job, no doubt in my mind.

Edited November 3, 2011 by chad72

[MAC]

The topic of Polian's imminent demise is common amongst people who don't happen to like him, and amongst fans who insist that "someone must pay" for the fact that we're having a bad year. Of course it's only the second such season out of thirteen, and there is every reason to believe that we will be right back in the playoff hunt next year as long as Peyton is healthy. UNLESS we do something ridiculous, like blow up the front office and take the entire organization in a different direction. A little patience would be nice.

Think of it this way - Polian has ONLY been fired in the past because of personality conflicts. Somehow I doubt that that is an issue here after all these years. He's going to retire gracefully one of these years, not get tarred and feathered and dragged around the streets of Indianapolis. I'm fairly confident that these types of conversations are NOT taking place inside the Colts organization.

[John Dee]

He built a team that is dead last in the Power Rankings right now. #32 I would say he has slipped quite a lot and was over-rated to begin with. Irsay will never let him go though. I would bet money on that as well.

Wow... the winning est team in the history of the NFL over a 10 year period... over rated?

Really? 6 Super Bowls, turned around Buffalo, Carolina, and INDY???? Over rated? C'mon bro.. he may be getting old and "losing his touch" but that happens to everyone in every walk of life. Joe Gibbs, Ditka, Landry, Noll... HOF coaches that ended on not so HOF records.

NOW, Bill or the organization has got "very lazy the last few years" ... and it has caught up to bite em in the *. Peyton made a lot of people a lot of money that should never ever have gotten a sniff of it. But Bill abd Dungy made their bones LONG before.

But to call Bill Polian "over rated" is ... really stupid.

That said............... It's just time for a fresh breath of air in Indianapolis. I do agree with that train of thinking.

[GoGoColts]

Bill is stepping back as he is close to retirement and Chris is messing up. I can see Irsay looking to go a different direction.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Whether you like him or not one thing is for sure he is not going anywhere.

[ColtsBlueFL]

My only beef with Polian is that he built Indy to be too dependent on one guy, and no plan B for that one guy not being able to go on game day. But with a potential GOAT, it was hard to do otherwise.

I knew (in my heart) over the past few years (after 2005 and notably after the loss of Sorgi) that we were no better than a 3 win team without Peyton. Now, if we are fortunate, I may be proven correct.

Then again, i know of nobody that could just step in and fill Peyton's shoes (though I had confidence Sorgi was an 8-8 guy with the number one's for some reason) and having a second playbook for Painter wasn't feasible.... so... we are what our record says.

[PreManningColtsFan]

My only beef with Polian is that he built Indy to be too dependent on one guy, and no plan B for that one guy not being able to go on game day. But with a potential GOAT, it was hard to do otherwise. I knew (in my heart) over the past few years (after 2005 and notably after the loss of Sorgi) that we were no better than a 3 win team without Peyton. Now, if we are fortunate, I may be proven correct. Then again, i know of nobody that could just step in and fill Peyton's shoes (though I had confidence Sorgi was an 8-8 guy with the number one's for some reason) and having a second playbook for Painter wasn't feasible.... so... we are what our record says.

You make an excellent point in replacing Manning and that is one thing that Mike and Mike touched on yesterday. The fact is that no one can come in and do what Peyton does. Our offense is predicated on a no huddle format and calling plays based off the formation of the defense. Forget all the physical talent Peyton brings and his ability to make throws. Due to our system and practice / game time running the offense, any other qb simply can't come in and do it. The options are stay with the offense and try and get them up to speed, or develop the team around the skill sets of the qb you have. As Mike and Mike discussed yesterday along with Herm Edwards and Jon Gruden, in the event we draft Luck, Indy would need to change the type of offense they run. It simply isn't possible for anyone to come in and do what Peyton does. This fact is in a big way responsible for the state of afairs of this team and another reason why we didn't have a reasonable backup. One, Peyton never has missed a game, and two, even if he does go down, the replacement can't run our offense effectively. Keep in mind, Peyton is a control freek and has 100% of the time with the first team in practice and is still playing in games that are already won and in our favor. His backup NEVER sees time on the field.

[MTC]

Irsay should get rid of Bill Polian if he doesnt fire Caldwell by the end of the season

[Blue Horseshoe]

He picked all of the players and selected all of the coaches.

Where else should the responsibility for this 0-8 atrocity lie than with him?

This season is all about Polian's ability to pick players other than Manning.

Edited November 3, 2011 by Blue Horseshoe

[chad72]

This thread should be actually talking about if Chris Polian is the right man for the job if Bill Polian is going to step away from scouting participation and riding into the sunset. We should also wonder the possibility of Bill Polian sticking around if Chris Polian were to be replaced. Would Irsay dare do that?

I personally do not want Bill Polian gone but would like to see an experienced guy other than Chris Polian get the GM job.

[dn4192]

He built a team that is dead last in the Power Rankings right now. #32 I would say he has slipped quite a lot and was over-rated to begin with. Irsay will never let him go though. I would bet money on that as well.

Okay what were the power rankings of the Colts overall over the past 10 seasons?

[dn4192]

This thread should be actually talking about if Chris Polian is the right man for the job if Bill Polian is going to step away from scouting participation and riding into the sunset. We should also wonder the possibility of Bill Polian sticking around if Chris Polian were to be replaced. Would Irsay dare do that?

I personally do not want Bill Polian gone but would like to see an experienced guy other than Chris Polian get the GM job.

Chris just didn't get up one day and get the position, he worked his way up through the organization just like any other young GM would. The problem I believe here isn't his experience level but his last name.

[dn4192]

Bill is stepping back as he is close to retirement and Chris is messing up. I can see Irsay looking to go a different direction.

How is Chris messing up?

[dn4192]

He picked all of the players and selected all of the coaches.

Where else should the responsibility for this 0-8 atrocity lie than with him?

This season is all about Polian's ability to pick players other than Manning.

Okay if it's his fault for this season, then the previous 10 seasons are all due to him then...

[Flash7]

Okay if it's his fault for this season, then the previous 10 seasons are all due to him then...

You're missing the point dn4192. Peyton Manning had 10 winning seasons despite the lack of talent around him. Your argument is like saying that the GM of the Cleveland Cavaliers did a great job solely because he drafted Lebron James. We all knew Cleveland was a 1 man team, just like our Colts are proving this year. We're pointing out the flaws that we have seen for years, but due to Peyton's greatness, we couldn't prove it. Now we have the proof that Polian has not built a strong team. He was lucky enough to have the chance to draft Manning, and Manning took care of the rest.

[dn4192]

You're missing the point dn4192. Peyton Manning had 10 winning seasons despite the lack of talent around him. Your argument is like saying that the GM of the Cleveland Cavaliers did a great job solely because he drafted Lebron James. We all knew Cleveland was a 1 man team, just like our Colts are proving this year. We're pointing out the flaws that we have seen for years, but due to Peyton's greatness, we couldn't prove it. Now we have the proof that Polian has not built a strong team. He was lucky enough to have the chance to draft Manning, and Manning took care of the rest.

This idea that 1 person was the sole reason for all the success or failure of a team is laughable at best. You could have put Peyton Manning on say the Lions of a few years back and they are not very successful. This is not basketball where 1 player can carry a franchise, you need key players around them. Polian, the coaches, the players (all of them) is the reason why this franchise has been successful. This year we are again missing some key personal due to health issues, we have had other players not live up to their expectations and we made some bad draft choices, but this view/idea that this franchise has had the suceess it has had over the past 10 season just because of Manning is laughable and a HUGE insult to all the other players who have played on this team during that time.

[Flash7]

The Colts have always had injuries. We are constantly one of the most injured teams year in and year out. you can't use injuries as an outlier for this year when we have multiple injuries every year.

We have a good team when Peyton is playing because he makes them better. Our O-line is not great but Peyton gets rid of the ball in two seconds that they really only need to sustain blocks for a limited amount of time.

Our receivers play more inspired because they understand the timing that they have with Peyton and know that when they get open, the ball will be thrown on time and on target.

Peyton reads the defense and puts us in the right play, usually leading to longer sustained drives, or touchdowns. This takes the presure off of our defense who during the games can get some rest and play more aggressively. They know that they don't have to play perfect to win, and usually, as long as they can keep the games close they know that Peyton can win the game.

Now, tell me how one player doesn't affect the entire team?

[dn4192]

The Colts have always had injuries. We are constantly one of the most injured teams year in and year out. you can't use injuries as an outlier for this year when we have multiple injuries every year.

We have a good team when Peyton is playing because he makes them better. Our O-line is not great but Peyton gets rid of the ball in two seconds that they really only need to sustain blocks for a limited amount of time.

Our receivers play more inspired because they understand the timing that they have with Peyton and know that when they get open, the ball will be thrown on time and on target.

Peyton reads the defense and puts us in the right play, usually leading to longer sustained drives, or touchdowns. This takes the presure off of our defense who during the games can get some rest and play more aggressively. They know that they don't have to play perfect to win, and usually, as long as they can keep the games close they know that Peyton can win the game.

Now, tell me how one player doesn't affect the entire team?

When it comes to injuries it's not the amount, but to whom. And yes 1 player can have a huge impact on how a team plays no question and we are seeing that this year. But this idea that it is only due to Peyton that this franchise has been successful over the past 10 years is laughable.

[deedub75]

When it comes to injuries it's not the amount, but to whom. And yes 1 player can have a huge impact on how a team plays no question and we are seeing that this year. But this idea that it is only due to Peyton that this franchise has been successful over the past 10 years is laughable.

Laughable, but true.

[Flash7]

Laughable, but true.

Exactly! It is laughable, because it shouldn't be the case, but with the COLTS it's true.

[gspdx]

Chris just didn't get up one day and get the position, he worked his way up through the organization just like any other young GM would. The problem I believe here isn't his experience level but his last name.

I thought most GMs were hired in to a team. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think most teams interview and bring in someone external when hiring a new GM. I guess that means you really need to prove yourself somewhere else before getting the job. My concern is that Chris is possibly getting special treatment. I have also read - but I don't know for sure - that Chris was given more of a role in the last 3-4 drafts. If that is the case then I still have questions about his ability.

Edited November 3, 2011 by gspdx

[gspdx]

You make an excellent point in replacing Manning and that is one thing that Mike and Mike touched on yesterday. The fact is that no one can come in and do what Peyton does. Our offense is predicated on a no huddle format and calling plays based off the formation of the defense. Forget all the physical talent Peyton brings and his ability to make throws. Due to our system and practice / game time running the offense, any other qb simply can't come in and do it. The options are stay with the offense and try and get them up to speed, or develop the team around the skill sets of the qb you have. As Mike and Mike discussed yesterday along with Herm Edwards and Jon Gruden, in the event we draft Luck, Indy would need to change the type of offense they run. It simply isn't possible for anyone to come in and do what Peyton does. This fact is in a big way responsible for the state of afairs of this team and another reason why we didn't have a reasonable backup. One, Peyton never has missed a game, and two, even if he does go down, the replacement can't run our offense effectively. Keep in mind, Peyton is a control freek and has 100% of the time with the first team in practice and is still playing in games that are already won and in our favor. His backup NEVER sees time on the field.

Please - don't say we have a complicated offense. ViriLudant will be here in a flash to dispel that myth!

[gspdx]

This idea that 1 person was the sole reason for all the success or failure of a team is laughable at best. You could have put Peyton Manning on say the Lions of a few years back and they are not very successful. This is not basketball where 1 player can carry a franchise, you need key players around them. Polian, the coaches, the players (all of them) is the reason why this franchise has been successful. This year we are again missing some key personal due to health issues, we have had other players not live up to their expectations and we made some bad draft choices, but this view/idea that this franchise has had the suceess it has had over the past 10 season just because of Manning is laughable and a HUGE insult to all the other players who have played on this team during that time.

But I think the Colts would perform similar to last year if Peyton was playing. Which means a 10 win season and possibly a trip to the playoffs. If that was the case then the Colts would be talked about as having 11 10+ win seasons in a row! So if Peyton had been on the Lions and they got good with the no huddle offense the way Peyton runs it, maybe they could have been competitive.

[buccolts]

The premise is that the Colts were designed to take advantage of Peyton's abilities to do things no other QB is capable of.

Now that Peyton's out, the Colts are horrible. No kidding.

However, if this was such a terrible plan, then we should have traded Peyton years ago, never drafted him, to not taken advantage of what he can do.

Having said that, over the past 12-13 years, how many teams would you have rather we'd been than those Colts teams?

[oldunclemark]

The premise is that the Colts were designed to take advantage of Peyton's abilities to do things no other QB is capable of.

Now that Peyton's out, the Colts are horrible. No kidding.

However, if this was such a terrible plan, then we should have traded Peyton years ago, never drafted him, to not taken advantage of what he can do.

Having said that, over the past 12-13 years, how many teams would you have rather we'd been than those Colts teams?

Thank you..buc

[Flash7]

The premise is that the Colts were designed to take advantage of Peyton's abilities to do things no other QB is capable of.

Now that Peyton's out, the Colts are horrible. No kidding.

However, if this was such a terrible plan, then we should have traded Peyton years ago, never drafted him, to not taken advantage of what he can do.

Having said that, over the past 12-13 years, how many teams would you have rather we'd been than those Colts teams?

In regards to Polian, he made a great choice in drafting Peyton manning and he has surrounded him with some talent. My point was that Peyton Manning was the biggest peice of this puzzle and has had to do way too much for this team to win consistantly.

Had Polian done a better job of drafting over the past few years, this wouldn't be the case. I will give him some credit that he made some good draft choices, however, when he has missed, it has really cost us. For example, he drafted Donald Brown who hasn't performed well for the Colts. He may be a good player for some other teams that employ different blocking schemes, but largely, he hasn't contributed to our team's success. This can also be said about Hughes, and a few others. This is a great loss of petential for us. We could've used those picks on players who could contribute to the team, especially on defense, and we could have avoided having such a void in our secondary.

With all of these missed draft picks and the team slowly declining on talent, the Colts have continuously relied on Manning to carry them to the playoffs, which he has.

To answer your question, I am a Colts fan and would not trade the past 12-13 years, and would not want to be like other teams, but would like to point out that as good as we were, we could have been better, and am frustrated that we are in a decline that was avoidable.

[dn4192]

In regards to Polian, he made a great choice in drafting Peyton manning and he has surrounded him with some talent. My point was that Peyton Manning was the biggest peice of this puzzle and has had to do way too much for this team to win consistantly.

Had Polian done a better job of drafting over the past few years, this wouldn't be the case. I will give him some credit that he made some good draft choices, however, when he has missed, it has really cost us. For example, he drafted Donald Brown who hasn't performed well for the Colts. He may be a good player for some other teams that employ different blocking schemes, but largely, he hasn't contributed to our team's success. This can also be said about Hughes, and a few others. This is a great loss of petential for us. We could've used those picks on players who could contribute to the team, especially on defense, and we could have avoided having such a void in our secondary.

With all of these missed draft picks and the team slowly declining on talent, the Colts have continuously relied on Manning to carry them to the playoffs, which he has.

To answer your question, I am a Colts fan and would not trade the past 12-13 years, and would not want to be like other teams, but would like to point out that as good as we were, we could have been better, and am frustrated that we are in a decline that was avoidable.

In regards to Polian, he made a great choice in drafting Peyton manning and he has surrounded him with some talent. My point was that Peyton Manning was the biggest peice of this puzzle and has had to do way too much for this team to win consistantly.

Exactly way to much of what? He has QB this team and done what a QB has done, what over that has he done?

[Flash7]

Exactly way to much of what? He has QB this team and done what a QB has done, what over that has he done?

dn4192, would you agree with me that Manning is possibly ONE OF the greatest quarterbacks to ever play, if not the greatest? He has done too much in that he needs to consistantly play at that level in order for his team to win. He needs to study film like no other QB, run practices which is usually a coaches job, and know that he needs to play nearly perfect because he doesn't have that much talent around him to bail him out. Ben Roethlisberger who has won 2 Super Bowls, and was just in the last Super Bowl doesn't have to play nearly as perfect as Peyton because of his surrounding cast.

[buccolts]

In regards to Polian, he made a great choice in drafting Peyton manning and he has surrounded him with some talent. My point was that Peyton Manning was the biggest peice of this puzzle and has had to do way too much for this team to win consistantly.

Had Polian done a better job of drafting over the past few years, this wouldn't be the case. I will give him some credit that he made some good draft choices, however, when he has missed, it has really cost us. For example, he drafted Donald Brown who hasn't performed well for the Colts. He may be a good player for some other teams that employ different blocking schemes, but largely, he hasn't contributed to our team's success. This can also be said about Hughes, and a few others. This is a great loss of petential for us. We could've used those picks on players who could contribute to the team, especially on defense, and we could have avoided having such a void in our secondary.

With all of these missed draft picks and the team slowly declining on talent, the Colts have continuously relied on Manning to carry them to the playoffs, which he has.

To answer your question, I am a Colts fan and would not trade the past 12-13 years, and would not want to be like other teams, but would like to point out that as good as we were, we could have been better, and am frustrated that we are in a decline that was avoidable.

Peyton is the centerpiece. The entire team, and therefore scheme, was built with his talents in mind. Eventually talents diminish, and with the structure of this team, and the thought that this offensive scheme could only be run efficiently with Peyton's talents, when he comes to the end of his career there needs to be a scheme change. Also note that the defense was constructed off of Peyton's effectiveness as well.

Now, Peyton just signs what we all believed to be his final contract, and had no reason to believe he wouldn't be effective for a few years yet. Suddenly, everyone's taken by surprise, and he's out this year (perhaps longer). You're caught with your pants down, and no one could have predicted it. Bare in mind that it's not just Peyton this year. We've also been skeptical of Reggies talents, and this year it seems Dallas may be deteriorating. On defense, Freeney isn't getting any younger either.

I believe that the team was already in a slow mode to change philosophies preparing for the post Manning era, only based on drafting bigger players lately. Also picking up run stopping DEs this year was telling to me.

I can't deny that Brown could now be considered a mistake, but not that we took an RB when we did, but simply that he never turned into what they'd hoped. I'm beginning to believe the same of Hughes, but haven't completely given up on him yet. I don't see Gonzo as a bust. He was very good for us, then became injury prone, and is now perhaps in someone's doghouse (see Tryon).

Assuming Peyton does play a few years yet, I see this year as a picture of the future if schemes don't change before he's retired.

I can withstand one year like this.

Edited November 3, 2011 by buccolts

[dn4192]

dn4192, would you agree with me that Manning is possibly ONE OF the greatest quarterbacks to ever play, if not the greatest? He has done too much in that he needs to consistantly play at that level in order for his team to win. He needs to study film like no other QB, run practices which is usually a coaches job, and know that he needs to play nearly perfect because he doesn't have that much talent around him to bail him out. Ben Roethlisberger who has won 2 Super Bowls, and was just in the last Super Bowl doesn't have to play nearly as perfect as Peyton because of his surrounding cast.

I think there have been better QB's in the NFL history, but I do believe Peyton is unique and in the top 5 of all time QB's. He does things most players don't do and that is beat them with his mind. He is by far not one of the most physical QB's ever and I have said before he is not that great of a "passer" what he is able to do is put people in the best position to catch his passes or advance the ball by just being smarter then the other team and the other teams DC. I doubt we will ever see another QB in the NFL quite like Peyton.

[JoKeR]

This is not a 1 man team, that's complete crap!

This teams problem is doesn't even have a decent QB, which leads to quick 3 and outs, which leads to the defense being on the field too long, which leads to alot of losses.

That's something the talking heads forget, instead they'd rather just label it a 1man team because its more sensational.

[JoKeR]

IMO faults are keeping a puppet coach and not preparing the team for a Manning injury by having a decent backup, and chasing good coaches away.

But he did not build a 1 man team, if you believe that, are you just a Manning fan or a Colts fan?

Because if you think its a 1 man team then you have little respect for anyone else with a horseshoe on his helmet.

Some may counter " well if those guys are so good why no wins?"

Because every good team needs a good decent QB ,period, useless your team is a great power running team. which is kinda rare.

[dn4192]

IMO faults are keeping a puppet coach and not preparing the team for a Manning injury by having a decent backup, and chasing good coaches away.

But he did not build a 1 man team, if you believe that, are you just a Manning fan or a Colts fan?

Because if you think its a 1 man team then you have little respect for anyone else with a horseshoe on his helmet.

Some may counter " well if those guys are so good why no wins?"

Because every good team needs a good decent QB ,period, useless your team is a great power running team. which is kinda rare.

How many teams have good Back up QB's? Especially those teams with higher end payrolls? I challenge anyone here to name the backup QB's for the other teams in our own divison without looking.

[buccolts]

This is not a 1 man team, that's complete crap!

This teams problem is doesn't even have a decent QB, which leads to quick 3 and outs, which leads to the defense being on the field too long, which leads to alot of losses.

That's something the talking heads forget, instead they'd rather just label it a 1man team because its more sensational.

On the chance this was directed at my comments, I don't believe the Colts are a one man team. I only believe that the offense was built to fit, and take advantage of, Peyton's talents, and the defense was built to attack a opponents offense who's down a couple of scores, and needs to pass.

I agree with you regarding the talking heads. I watch them but don't take any of them seriously. They typically have opposing views only because everyone agreeing on something is not entertaining enough for the masses. It's scripted, and someone has to take the pro side, while the other has to take the con side. Reality be darned.

Edit: Again with 'darned'. Boy does that sound corny. Well, so does 'corny' I guess.

Edited November 3, 2011 by buccolts