Offense Scheme.. last 3 vs. Playoffs

[Bleed_Blue]

For the past several weeks I've been preaching around the watercooler (and lately on here) about my dislike for the Colts current offensive scheme/philosophy and what should change.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that the main reason the Colts have had "slow starts" is due to the scheme not matching the personnel.  

 

A below average at best o-line (interior maybe the worst) + receivers that have trouble getting open + a franchise/once in a generation type of QB and the Colts are choosing to open games (especially on 1st and 2nd down) under center, in power formations, interior running plays and slow developing 5-7 step drop passing plays/play actions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like a power running/play-action style offense as much as the next guy, but it is the WRONG scheme for the Colts this year.  IMO what needs to happen is this:

 

-Put Luck in the SHOTGUN for the majority of snaps (especially early downs) w/3+WR's and work the quick passing game + delays, draws and screens.  

 

   - Helps mask a bad o-line

   - Gets the ball out quickly

   - Creates separation for the young WR's via the formation and route combinations (think rubs/picks)

   - Will create better running lanes  for Richardson and Brown via delays/draws.  No 8-10 in the box

   - Check downs/Screens to the RB's will utilize what is probably they're biggest strength - Receiving

   

Luck is the best offensive player.  Spread it out and let him play.  

 

 

....  Now to the title....  If Pep and Chuck do decide to stop beating their head against a wall early in games and play to this teams strengths and away from weaknesses, Do you start now or wait until the playoffs?

 

 

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

For the past several weeks I've been preaching around the watercooler (and lately on here) about my dislike for the Colts current offensive scheme/philosophy and what should change.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that the main reason the Colts have had "slow starts" is due to the scheme not matching the personnel.  

 

A below average at best o-line (interior maybe the worst) + receivers that have trouble getting open + a franchise/once in a generation type of QB and the Colts are choosing to open games (especially on 1st and 2nd down) under center, in power formations, interior running plays and slow developing 5-7 step drop passing plays/play actions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like a power running/play-action style offense as much as the next guy, but it is the WRONG scheme for the Colts this year.  IMO what needs to happen is this:

 

-Put Luck in the SHOTGUN for the majority of snaps (especially early downs) w/3+WR's and work the quick passing game + delays, draws and screens.  

 

   - Helps mask a bad o-line

   - Gets the ball out quickly

   - Creates separation for the young WR's via the formation and route combinations (think rubs/picks)

   - Will create better running lanes  for Richardson and Brown via delays/draws.  No 8-10 in the box

   - Check downs/Screens to the RB's will utilize what is probably they're biggest strength - Receiving

   

Luck is the best offensive player.  Spread it out and let him play.  

 

 

....  Now to the title....  If Pep and Chuck do decide to stop beating their head against a wall early in games and play to this teams strengths and away from weaknesses, Do you start now or wait until the playoffs?

it might work, if they would try it.

[Kenny]

Umm the past few weeks we've been opening up the game slinging it. Take the blinders off n ya might realize we are trending away from it.

[AntonMcG]

I believed this to be the way to go before the Bengals game... but that just reinforced it ten times over.

 

We clearly had success in this vein.... and don;t let me hear this nonsense about playing against a prevent defense, because that was only on the last drive., whilst we started spreading the formation and playing with one back in the first half.

 

It almost seems too obvious at this stage...

[AntonMcG]

Umm the past few weeks we've been opening up the game slinging it. Take the blinders off n ya might realize we are trending away from it.

 

At what stage in his post did he advocate us 'slinging it'?

[Bleed_Blue]

Umm the past few weeks we've been opening up the game slinging it. Take the blinders off n ya might realize we are trending away from it.

 

We have been throwing the ball, but not from IMO the proper formations and the proper time.  

[#87WayneFanHe'sTheMan]

I believed this to be the way to go before the Bengals game... but that just reinforced it ten times over.

 

We clearly had success in this vein.... and don;t let me hear this nonsense about playing against a prevent defense, because that was only on the last drive., whilst we started spreading the formation and playing with one back in the first half.

 

It almost seems too obvious at this stage...

 

Yea I am sick of hearing about garbage time TDs and prevent defense from this past game. The 2nd TD to Rogers was the only 1 that I would probably consider garbage time. 

[Bleed_Blue]

I believed this to be the way to go before the Bengals game... but that just reinforced it ten times over.

 

We clearly had success in this vein.... and don;t let me hear this nonsense about playing against a prevent defense, because that was only on the last drive., whilst we started spreading the formation and playing with one back in the first half.

 

It almost seems too obvious at this stage...

 

It's kind of cherry picking but just look at the Rogers TD and Brazil's...  Shotgun, spread, short route (therefore time to throw), YAC, TD

 

I believe this needs to be our bread and butter to be consistent on Offense for the rest of the year.

[Bleed_Blue]

Yea I am sick of hearing about garbage time TDs and prevent defense from this past game. The 2nd TD to Rogers was the only 1 that I would probably consider garbage time. 

 

 

I believed this to be the way to go before the Bengals game... but that just reinforced it ten times over.

 

We clearly had success in this vein.... and don;t let me hear this nonsense about playing against a prevent defense, because that was only on the last drive., whilst we started spreading the formation and playing with one back in the first half.

 

It almost seems too obvious at this stage...

 

So ssume Pep decides to switch up the offense to what has been successful lately...

 

Would you go vanilla until the playoffs to have some sort of element of surprise?  

[#12]

For most of the season it's been either a power run or a down-the-field pass attempt, and with Richardson in the backfield, poor pass protection and the lack of talent/experience at WR, it's not working.  They need to transition into a spread, move the chains offense.  Get the ball out of Luck's hands quickly through play design.  Dink and dunk.  Also, go up-tempo more.  Over his first two years, that's when Luck's had his greatest success - at the end of halves, the end of games.  Pass to set up the run.  Run more from passing sets.  In other words, transition from a 1970's Steelers-style offense into a modern offense. 

[Bleed_Blue]

For most of the season it's been either a power run or a down-the-field pass attempt, and with Richardson in the backfield, poor pass protection and the lack of talent/experience at WR, it's not working.  They need to transition into a spread, move the chains offense.  Get the ball out of Luck's hands quickly through play design.  Dink and dunk.  Also, go up-tempo more.  Over his first two years, that's when Luck's had his greatest success - at the end of halves, the end of games.  Pass to set up the run.  Run more from passing sets.  In other words, transition from a 1970's Steelers-style offense into a modern offense. 

 

Amen... 

 

What do you think is stopping them from this?  Stubbornness? 

[#12]

Amen... 

 

What do you think is stopping them from this?  Stubbornness? 

 

Good question.  In their minds, they were attempting to protect Luck with a power running game, but instead turned him into a sitting duck with it.  Repeated 1 and 2 yard runs from Richardson regularly put the Colts in 2nd and long and 3rd and long, opening Luck up to more hits behind a porous O-line.  At some point you have to face reality and make adjustments.  That's what coaches get paid to do.    

[The Fish]

My offensive scheme would look like this. Don't throw it to DHB. 

[Bleed_Blue]

In their minds, they were attempting to protect Luck with a power running game, but instead turned him into a sitting duck with it.  

 

Exactly

 

..because they choose to pass/play-action out of these power formations...  No time, no throwing lanes.  

[indystyle]

I 100% agree with you. We have been successful with shotgun and no huddle formations. Not letting the defenses substitute. Very similar to the Pats philosophy. I am not sure it is in Pep's DNA and Chuck will not override the OC. I have been to alot of games and watch the sideline as much as the game. I can tell you many drives when we are on offense Chuck takes off the headset even. He relies on his coaches for that side of the ball. Now, if Pep does decide to change it up, the playoffs would be perfect because the opposition will not scheme for it and then in the second game if we advance will require more prep for the opposition and probably open up our power game a little more. 

[dritterbusch]

Forgetting the score, it seems against the Bengals, the Colts were using the short, quick passing scheme that the Manning's and Brady's of the world use.  A three yard completion is better than a no gain run.  Plus, I think it had a lot to do with Luck not getting hit.

[NagelHausForge]

I would like to see the Colts spread the D out more and have a couple designed runs for luck to start the game to help slow down that pass rush.  Throw in some bootlegs and end arounds and put the D on their heels early.  Keep them guessing.

 

Yes, Luck is a great pocket passer, but unless you can keep the D honest we dont have the line to protect him.

 

Get luck out of the pocket and let him make plays with his legs and scrambling ability.

 

I would also enjoy seeing more of Fleener split out wide or in the slot.  He has really made strides this season with his catching ability and confidence.

 

Guess I am just looking for more creativity from the offense.

[AntonMcG]

Another thing that is grinding my gears is the concept that we need to leave more blockers in to protect Luck... that could not be more wrong. The reason Luck holds on to the ball is because he often only has three receiving options who are struggling to get open.

 

Send everyone out, give him five options, spread the field and let him get it out quicker... one of Luck's greatest strengths is his ability to go through his progressions quickly.

 

I can guarantee his hits and sacks would decrease dramatically in this case.

[Bleed_Blue]

I would like to see the Colts spread the D out more and have a couple designed runs for luck to start the game to help slow down that pass rush.  Throw in some bootlegs and end arounds and put the D on their heels early.  Keep them guessing.

 

Yes, Luck is a great pocket passer, but unless you can keep the D honest we dont have the line to protect him.

 

Get luck out of the pocket and let him make plays with his legs and scrambling ability.

 

I would also enjoy seeing more of Fleener split out wide or in the slot.  He has really made strides this season with his catching ability and confidence.

 

Guess I am just looking for more creativity from the offense.

 

This also..  a big body to shield defenders on underneath slants and option routes from the shotgun.

[Bleed_Blue]

Another thing that is grinding my gears is the concept that we need to leave more blockers in to protect Luck... that could not be more wrong. The reason Luck holds on to the ball is because he often only has three receiving options who are struggling to get open.

 

Send everyone out, give him five options, spread the field and let him get it out quicker... one of Luck's greatest strengths is his ability to go through his progressions quickly.

 

I can guarantee his hits and sacks would decrease dramatically in this case.

 

Another problem with these power/bunch formations is that the defense can easily disguise blitzes, stunts and coverages with the added bonus of 8+ in the box for the run.... and with this o-line you get a ton of pressures, hits, sacks and no gain runs.

[1959Colts]

The coaches feel Havili must be on the field.

[AntonMcG]

So ssume Pep decides to switch up the offense to what has been successful lately...

 

Would you go vanilla until the playoffs to have some sort of element of surprise?  

 

I think we have to go for it now for familiarity sake. I would rather us concentrate on perfecting our own game than worrying about opponents game planning against us.

 

That being said there is some merit in holding back until the playoffs.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Another thing that is grinding my gears is the concept that we need to leave more blockers in to protect Luck... that could not be more wrong. The reason Luck holds on to the ball is because he often only has three receiving options who are struggling to get open.

 

Send everyone out, give him five options, spread the field and let him get it out quicker... one of Luck's greatest strengths is his ability to go through his progressions quickly.

 

I can guarantee his hits and sacks would decrease dramatically in this case.

When you have a porous offensive line like we do, I live by the AHAC offensive strategy.  Always have a checkdown.  We need a bailout receiver for Luck on every play.  We need Brown, Havili, and Richardson to be more and more involved in the passing game.  For the life of me I don't understand why we don't run more RB screens.  We don't have the most athletic lineman mind you, but Brown and Richardson are both great in space and we need to keep the pass rush honest.  I'm not saying we should go into full on Broncos spread offense, but I'm totally with you on spreading it out more.  Maybe with Rogers finally giving us a reason to completely bench DHB, we will be able to spread it out a little more.  We will see.

[AntonMcG]

When you have a porous offensive line like we do, I live by the AHAC offensive strategy.  Always have a checkdown.  We need a bailout receiver for Luck on every play.  We need Brown, Havili, and Richardson to be more and more involved in the passing game.  For the life of me I don't understand why we don't run more RB screens.  We don't have the most athletic lineman mind you, but Brown and Richardson are both great in space and we need to keep the pass rush honest.  I'm not saying we should go into full on Broncos spread offense, but I'm totally with you on spreading it out more.  Maybe with Rogers finally giving us a reason to completely bench DHB, we will be able to spread it out a little more.  We will see.

 

That's why, lol.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

That's why, lol.

...yep....that's one area that having Dwayne Allen back will help a lot.  Along with a couple new lineman.

[Dr. T]

I said before the Cincy game that, IF WE WERE SMART, we should show other teams nothing much new before the playoffs. We should remain vanilla and 'play possum'. We practice the playoff stuff now, but don't show much of it until the playoffs start. However, that means that watching these last few games will be PAINFUL, because we will probably lose at least one. Certainly, we should show KC nothing and surprise them in the playoffs, since we will most likely be playing them in the first round (at our house).

[Bleed_Blue]

Ball control style offense, yet 29th in time of possession :slaphead: ...  Time to change something 

[#87WayneFanHe'sTheMan]

For the past several weeks I've been preaching around the watercooler (and lately on here) about my dislike for the Colts current offensive scheme/philosophy and what should change.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that the main reason the Colts have had "slow starts" is due to the scheme not matching the personnel.  

 

A below average at best o-line (interior maybe the worst) + receivers that have trouble getting open + a franchise/once in a generation type of QB and the Colts are choosing to open games (especially on 1st and 2nd down) under center, in power formations, interior running plays and slow developing 5-7 step drop passing plays/play actions.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like a power running/play-action style offense as much as the next guy, but it is the WRONG scheme for the Colts this year.  IMO what needs to happen is this:

 

-Put Luck in the SHOTGUN for the majority of snaps (especially early downs) w/3+WR's and work the quick passing game + delays, draws and screens.  

 

   - Helps mask a bad o-line

   - Gets the ball out quickly

   - Creates separation for the young WR's via the formation and route combinations (think rubs/picks)

   - Will create better running lanes  for Richardson and Brown via delays/draws.  No 8-10 in the box

   - Check downs/Screens to the RB's will utilize what is probably they're biggest strength - Receiving

   

Luck is the best offensive player.  Spread it out and let him play.  

 

 

....  Now to the title....  If Pep and Chuck do decide to stop beating their head against a wall early in games and play to this teams strengths and away from weaknesses, Do you start now or wait until the playoffs?

 

They were talkin about the Colts on 1070 the FAN and they said that it might be best to go to the uptempo offense when they are in the playoffs.  The guy (can't remember the name) who apparently was an NFL coach at one time really sound positive things to say about Rogers and sounded like he thought he was the real deal.

[Bleed_Blue]

They were talkin about the Colts on 1070 the FAN and they said that it might be best to go to the uptempo offense when they are in the playoffs.  The guy (can't remember the name) who apparently was an NFL coach at one time really sound positive things to say about Rogers and sounded like he thought he was the real deal.

 

Probably Rick Venturi..  I caught part of his conversation with Dakich on lunch, but he was just ripping the defense.  If the offense could move the chains more consistently it would help that D look a little better...  At least give them a breather.

[#87WayneFanHe'sTheMan]

Probably Rick Venturi..  I caught part of his conversation with Dakich on lunch, but he was just ripping the defense.  If the offense could move the chains more consistently it would help that D look a little better...  At least give them a breather.

 

Yea that was him and that was the show I was listening to.

[basketballsteve]

I am so sick of vanilla.

[Bleed_Blue]

Looking good!! Shotgun, spread it out!!

[Bleed_Blue]

Could it be more obvious??

[Bleed_Blue]

Last two drive stalled because we went away from shotgun-short passing game...

[Bleed_Blue]

I'm telling you.... TD Colts!!!!!

[Dustin]

Pep is calling a hell of a game.

[Bleed_Blue]

For the past several weeks I've been preaching around the watercooler (and lately on here) about my dislike for the Colts current offensive scheme/philosophy and what should change.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the main reason the Colts have had "slow starts" is due to the scheme not matching the personnel.

A below average at best o-line (interior maybe the worst) + receivers that have trouble getting open + a franchise/once in a generation type of QB and the Colts are choosing to open games (especially on 1st and 2nd down) under center, in power formations, interior running plays and slow developing 5-7 step drop passing plays/play actions.

Don't get me wrong, I like a power running/play-action style offense as much as the next guy, but it is the WRONG scheme for the Colts this year. IMO what needs to happen is this:

-Put Luck in the SHOTGUN for the majority of snaps (especially early downs) w/3+WR's and work the quick passing game + delays, draws and screens.

- Helps mask a bad o-line

- Gets the ball out quickly

- Creates separation for the young WR's via the formation and route combinations (think rubs/picks)

- Will create better running lanes for Richardson and Brown via delays/draws. No 8-10 in the box

- Check downs/Screens to the RB's will utilize what is probably they're biggest strength - Receiving

Luck is the best offensive player. Spread it out and let him play.

.... Now to the title.... If Pep and Chuck do decide to stop beating their head against a wall early in games and play to this teams strengths and away from weaknesses, Do you start now or wait until the playoffs?

[achcolts]

When you have a porous offensive line like we do, I live by the AHAC offensive strategy.  Always have a checkdown.  We need a bailout receiver for Luck on every play.  We need Brown, Havili, and Richardson to be more and more involved in the passing game.  For the life of me I don't understand why we don't run more RB screens.  We don't have the most athletic lineman mind you, but Brown and Richardson are both great in space and we need to keep the pass rush honest.  I'm not saying we should go into full on Broncos spread offense, but I'm totally with you on spreading it out more.  Maybe with Rogers finally giving us a reason to completely bench DHB, we will be able to spread it out a little more.  We will see.

 

WOW THIS! Reggie was practically the bailout receiver for every play, getting open was so easy and quick for him. T rich or Fleener shud get more flats/pop out to the sidelines for a quick gain

[#12]

The play calling was great, and the offense looked great until Brown went down.  Handoffs to Richardson killed practically every subsequent drive.  The guy is an absolute drive killer.   With the number of 3 and outs from the defense, the turnovers and the excellent field position, that game could easily have been 48-3, and might have been had Brown not gone down. 

[House]

The play calling was great, and the offense looked great until Brown went down. Handoffs to Richardson killed practically every subsequent drive. The guy is an absolute drive killer. With the number of 3 and outs from the defense, the turnovers and the excellent field position, that game could easily have been 48-3, and might have been had Brown not gone down.

You are out of your mind if you think Brown is worth 23 points of production.