O-line according to PFF until after week 11 [Merge]

[Dustin]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/

[Carlos Danger]

I'm a bit surprised that we graded out ahead of Seattle, KC, and Oakland...  Love that PFF says we are getting our $'s worth out of Gosder...

[SkyBane]

I'm a bit surprised that we graded out ahead of Seattle, KC, and Oakland... Love that PFF says we are getting our $'s worth out of Gosder...

KCs offense is entirely bland, they do nothing in the pass game that requires protection, so their o line isnt required to do much. Seattle's o line has been injury crippled, and as the article mentions, they should soar back up as they are getting healthy now.

[Gavin]

I've given Gosder a bit harder time then he deserves really, I cant get the image of Paul Kruger giving him a wicked stiff arm forcing Cherilus to give up inside position and a sack out of my head at times.

[HtownColt]

I've given Gosder a bit harder time then he deserves really, I cant get the image of Paul Kruger giving him a wicked stiff arm forcing Cherilus to give up inside position and a sack out of my head at times.

Are you talking about preseason man?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/

Wait...McGlynn is our lowest rated?  I didn't see that coming......but I have tunnel vision.

[SkyBane]

Wait...McGlynn is our lowest rated? I didn't see that coming......but I have tunnel vision.

Yeah, McGlynn has been the second or third worst guard in the NFL. His center play is a tiny improvement over Satele, but not that much. Overall, hes actually been the.problem according to PFF. Surprised me a little too lol.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Yeah, McGlynn has been the second or third worst guard in the NFL. His center play is a tiny improvement over Satele, but not that much. Overall, hes actually been the.problem according to PFF. Surprised me a little too lol.

I was being sarcastic...McGlynn is obviously the weakest link.  McGlynn has played better at center than Satele, but McGlynn is a worse guard, than Samson is a center.  But they are both pretty terrible.

[Gavin]

Are you talking about preseason man?

Good point, For some reason I related that to regular season week 2...which obviously it wasn't, Consider this my dumb post for the month.....Ill do that once in a while...Was a wicked stiff arm though

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

nah dude our line is the worst in the league. Luck gets hit too much, and they have literally opened ZERO holes for Trent Richardson, ZERO.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

nah dude our line is the worst in the league. Luck gets hit too much, and they have literally opened ZERO holes for Trent Richardson, ZERO.

Our tackles are pretty good...our interior is horrible.

[Dustin]

Our tackles are pretty good...our interior is horrible.

All 3 of our interior lineman are bottom 10 at their position.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

All 3 of our interior lineman are bottom 10 at their position.

So pathetic. But who the hell is worse than us? I can't imagine

[HtownColt]

So pathetic. But who the hell is worse than us? I can't imagine

Have you seen that Cards OL lately, Bradley Sowell starts at LT that should tell you all you need to know about their line

[Dustin]

So pathetic. But who the hell is worse than us? I can't imagine

Cardinals. Going by PFFs numbers, the Cardinals are already at -52 in pass blocking.

The worst oline in the league was at -56 last year. Cards are on pace to have the lowest cumulative grade of the past 6 years as far as pass blacking goes.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

So pathetic. But who the hell is worse than us? I can't imagine

Like I said we have good tackles, so our whole line is far from the worst....do you not get that?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

nah dude our line is the worst in the league. Luck gets hit too much, and they have literally opened ZERO holes for Trent Richardson, ZERO.

Wait a sec...didn't we just get into a spat yesterday about you constantly bashing TRich?  But today it's the line's fault?

[BOTT]

All 3 of our interior lineman are bottom 10 at their position.

At least they are showing consistency

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Like I said we have good tackles, so our whole line is far from the worst....do you not get that?

I get that but it doesn't make sense seeing how much luck gets hit and how bad Trent is running. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Wait a sec...didn't we just get into a spat yesterday about you constantly bashing TRich?  But today it's the line's fault?

It's sarcasm. That's why I said literally ZERO. Unless you agree with that...

[SkyBane]

Wait a sec...didn't we just get into a spat yesterday about you constantly bashing TRich? But today it's the line's fault?

And this time, you missed the sarcam

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I get that but it doesn't make sense seeing how much luck gets hit and how bad Trent is running. 

Yeah, as bad as our line has looked this year, believe it or not, we aren't the worst out there.  Yay! Score one for the home team!

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

And this time, you missed the sarcam

You're right about that.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

It's sarcasm. That's why I said literally ZERO. Unless you agree with that...

Sorry didn't catch the sarcasm...my bad.

[stat2883]

I wouldn't put much stock in what PFF says, especially things like OL rankings or pass defense. At minimum take it with a big grain of salt. Gil Brandt even said on NFL radio that they don't know what they're talking about.

[Dustin]

I wouldn't put much stock in what PFF says, especially things like OL rankings or pass defense. At minimum take it with a big grain of salt. Gil Brandt even said on NFL radio that they don't know what they're talking about.

Disagree. PFFs oline ranking are the most accurate out there.

[stat2883]

Disagree. PFFs oline ranking are the most accurate out there.

not exactly a high bar Film don't lie, but when you don't know protection schemes and responsibilities, kinda makes the metric a little silly as a whole. Sure you can use it as a rough indicator, but even then there's some very questionable ratings in there. I used to look at them quite a bit a couple years ago but the more I saw the further disenchanted I grew with them. Then to hear Gil Brandt's comments on the matter just confirmed my previous suspicions. You're right though, its no worse than anything else out there, but only because the people who really know don't put the info out.

[Dustin]

not exactly a high bar Film don't lie, but when you don't know protection schemes and responsibilities, kinda makes the metric a little silly as a whole. Sure you can use it as a rough indicator, but even then there's some very questionable ratings in there. I used to look at them quite a bit a couple years ago but the more I saw the further disenchanted I grew with them. Then to hear Gil Brandt's comments on the matter just confirmed my previous suspicions. You're right though, its no worse than anything else out there, but only because the people who really know don't put the info out.

Meh, you can only look at the film and assume everyone is in the correct position. Id venture to guess that lineman blockig the wrong player doesn't happen much. Maybe ~20 times a season to be generous.

All I know is that 33% of teams in the NFL pay for their stats and scouting reports so im under the assumption that 1/3 of NFL GMs think these guys know what they are doing to at least consult them.

[stat2883]

Meh, you can only look at the film and assume everyone is in the correct position. Id venture to guess that lineman blockig the wrong player doesn't happen much. Maybe ~20 times a season to be generous.

All I know is that 33% of teams in the NFL pay for their stats and scouting reports so im under the assumption that 1/3 of NFL GMs think these guys know what they are doing to at least consult them.

as a whole, they're good for helping to determine trends and tendencies and things like that. But when it comes to individual assessments, sometimes its pretty lacking. It isn't just blocking wrong players though. For example, twists and stunts, delayed blitzes, things like that often get credited to the wrong players. Same with pass coverage...if a LB bits on a play fake and a shallow sideline pass is caught on a CB playing in a cover 3, they like to ding the CB on that because he was the closest player. Like I said though, the only ones that really know are the people who called the plays to begin with and are reviewing the film each week. Those are the voices I listen to the most on the rare occasion the speak. I've seen enough in my own opinion to not look too closely when PFF tries to rank players or units at certain positions, especially if they don't know the play calls or what a players responsibility is at any given time. That's just me though.

[Andy]

Several things I noticed:

 

- AQ Shipley graded out badly. 

 

- I knew Eric Fisher was playing badly, but man they gave him a bad grade.

 

- Gosder graded out better than AC. 

 

- I made one of the boldest statements ever when I said Decastro had HOF potential. He's having a good start to his career.

 

- Surprised to see the Dolphins in 14th. The O-line is a mess, with or without those goons on the left. 

 

- Packers at 13? I'm a bit skeptical of these rankings now.

 

- Jake Long getting a very good grade? Why am I not surprised, and I've been saying it all year. Curious to see how his haters are responding to that one, hahahaha.

[WaBWaWWaD]

Not surprised at al, but just to prove how good our best is, and how bad our worst is...

 

22. Indianapolis Colts:

Stud: The team gets good play from their tackles, particularly free agent signing Gosder Cherilus (+11.3) who has been exactly what they hoped he would be.

 

Dud: Another season, another year of Mike McGlynn (-23.4) being asked to do more than he is capable of. The team wants to run a power game but it’s hard to see if long term he’s part of that plan.

 

Summary: It’s taken a step forward but the interior is really struggling to open many holes and you’d want your franchise left tackle to give up a little less pressure. You wonder how much difference a healthy Donald Thomas would have made.

 

There are only 5 linemen with a worse ranking than McGlynn

[WaBWaWWaD]

Not surprised at all, but just to prove how good our best is, and how bad our worst is...

 

22. Indianapolis Colts:

Stud: The team gets good play from their tackles, particularly free agent signing Gosder Cherilus (+11.3) who has been exactly what they hoped he would be.

 

Dud: Another season, another year of Mike McGlynn (-23.4) being asked to do more than he is capable of. The team wants to run a power game but it’s hard to see if long term he’s part of that plan.

 

Summary: It’s taken a step forward but the interior is really struggling to open many holes and you’d want your franchise left tackle to give up a little less pressure. You wonder how much difference a healthy Donald Thomas would have made.

 

There are only 5 linemen with a worse ranking than McGlynn

[WaBWaWWaD]

Mods please merge...dubble post...Apologies

[ColtKangaroo]

McGlynn is so bad

[The Peytonator]

as a whole, they're good for helping to determine trends and tendencies and things like that. But when it comes to individual assessments, sometimes its pretty lacking. It isn't just blocking wrong players though. For example, twists and stunts, delayed blitzes, things like that often get credited to the wrong players. Same with pass coverage...if a LB bits on a play fake and a shallow sideline pass is caught on a CB playing in a cover 3, they like to ding the CB on that because he was the closest player. Like I said though, the only ones that really know are the people who called the plays to begin with and are reviewing the film each week. Those are the voices I listen to the most on the rare occasion the speak. I've seen enough in my own opinion to not look too closely when PFF tries to rank players or units at certain positions, especially if they don't know the play calls or what a players responsibility is at any given time. That's just me though.

 

 

I seriously doubt they fail to understand whose responsibility is whose on delays and stunts. It's really not that hard. Miscommunications and things like that are pretty easy to figure out who was at fault. If you watched NE vs Carolina last night, take the Greg Hardy sack early on; he was the one guy coming off the edge, and for whatever reason Solder chose to help Mankins and he he just completely watched Hardy get an unblocked sack on Brady. That play would get a big negative mark for Solder, and Hardy would probably get barely anything even though he's credited with a sack. 

 

As for the Cover 3 thing; let's say the weak side LB bites on a play action, and there is one WR on the weak side. The CBs zone may entail he is playing a deep third, but really he's supposed to be playing the sideline as well. If the receiver in front of him breaks off his route early, and the LB is a little bit shallow, he needs to come up and contest the catch or at least smack the receiver when he catches it. Making a play against that receiver would generally be his responsibility unless the offense has another receiver on that side running a deep route that he would be primary coverage on. Good defenders understand that zone coverage is flexible depending on personnel and what the personnel does.

[AntonMcG]

It would be exciting to think how good this offense could be next year with two big interior line upgrades, as well as the return of Thomas. Easier said that done of course, but the foundations are in place for a decent line, particularly at the tackle positions.

 

Couple that with Allen and Wayne's return, and to a lesser extent Ballard, and you have the makings of one of potentially one of the best offenses in the league. As I have stated I wish we played a bit more of a hurry-up, spread offensive system, but Pep's vision of a power offense could thrive with this personnel as well.

[Insert Colts Pun Here]

Our O-Line is still pretty bad but we're moving in the right direction.

As highlighted above, Cherilus is pretty much what we hoped he would be - a solid tackle in both the pass and run games, Castonzo has looked inconsistent the past season or two but he seems to be slowly improving, Donald Thomas looked good before the injury and Hugh Thornton has shown that he has talent in his rookie season.

 

Obviously we still have McGlynn and Satele who are pretty awful but the O-Line is one thing that can't be fixed over night and I'm comfortable with the other 3 guys long term, personally. I think if Grigson was to come out and say, at the end of last season, that we'd have 3 good players on our O-Line this season that we're comfortable with going forward then we would have all hailed him as the messiah. Either that or a raving loon!

[jwilli69]

I think right now the spread is the way to go with the personnel we have on the line and maybe look to re-employ the power formation next year with a retool of the oline. Get those defenders off the line and allow Luck to make some plays with those quick slants and allow Richardson to sneak out for a pass or two or even get out of the backfield and into space without having 4 dlineman and 3 lb'ers on top of him with the handoff

[AntonMcG]

Our O-Line is still pretty bad but we're moving in the right direction.

As highlighted above, Cherilus is pretty much what we hoped he would be - a solid tackle in both the pass and run games, Castonzo has looked inconsistent the past season or two but he seems to be slowly improving, Donald Thomas looked good before the injury and Hugh Thornton has shown that he has talent in his rookie season.

 

Obviously we still have McGlynn and Satele who are pretty awful but the O-Line is one thing that can't be fixed over night and I'm comfortable with the other 3 guys long term, personally. I think if Grigson was to come out and say, at the end of last season, that we'd have 3 good players on our O-Line this season that we're comfortable with going forward then we would have all hailed him as the messiah. Either that or a raving loon!

 

Hmm... the jury is still very much out on that.

[John Dee]

Thomas had a very nasty injury.   I do not expect him to return anywhere near what he was, if he returns at all.