Coyer Defense?????

[rockywoj]

In Coyer's first year, the defense was much improved than previous. In year two, the defense regressed, but I gave Coyer a too many players injured pass.

This year, though the defense has had its moments, I have lost patience. The scheme is just too darn soft and they fail to make adjustments while offenses continue to adjust and exploit the Colts' soft zones. I am now dubious about how good the defense can ever be with Coyer leading the scheme.

Maybe after the season a defensive revamp will be in order. Why not bring in a guy like Mike Singletary as a DC. If he's not the guy, then surely there is somebody out there that can bring a new, more effective scheme to the D.

[Quantum88]

I love the title to this thread. When Coyer was named our DC after Meeks was let go, I was on the board with one question - WHY? His record at Denver included one good season and nothing after that. He was known for not being able to make in game or in season adjustments. Coyer has not demonstrated that he has what it takes to be a defensive coordinator.

I have not been one of the members highly critical of Caldwell, but his loyalty to people from his past really worries me.

[Smitto]

I love the title to this thread. When Coyer was named our DC after Meeks was let go, I was on the board with one question - WHY? His record at Denver included one good season and nothing after that. He was known for not being able to make in game or in season adjustments. Coyer has not demonstrated that he has what it takes to be a defensive coordinator.

I have not been one of the members highly critical of Caldwell, but his loyalty to people from his past really worries me.

I totally agree, the colts need to make some changes... i really hope they dont allow peyton to come back and expect him to hide their blemishes.

[Xfiles]

This is what you do when everyone but two guys in the secondary is a rookie. It's very frustrating I know I don't like it. Also way to go Hughes you finally made a play now shut up and go play football so your great play doesn't get whipped out never mind Anderson took care of it for you.

I dont buy this for one second....even young corner's and Safety's can be taught to disguise coverage and roll from single high to cover two, fake press and back off, zone blitz, etc. We played vanilla tampa 2 almost all night(with the exception of a few A gap blitzes and fakes that didnt work at all) and Tampa Bucs knew exactly what we were doing. Gruden is not an *, he is a superbowl champ and he pointed out multiple times we needed to switch up coverage and disguise. He didnt use the excuse(no excuses, no explanations) that a few young guys in the secondary means you have to lie back and take it missionary style all night long........

Coyer did nothing....and Angerer never had a chance to help the middle playing that defense all night.

[LUVTHESHOE]

In Coyer's first year, the defense was much improved than previous. In year two, the defense regressed, but I gave Coyer a too many players injured pass.

This year, though the defense has had its moments, I have lost patience. The scheme is just too darn soft and they fail to make adjustments while offenses continue to adjust and exploit the Colts' soft zones. I am now dubious about how good the defense can ever be with Coyer leading the scheme.

Maybe after the season a defensive revamp will be in order. Why not bring in a guy like Mike Singletary as a DC. If he's not the guy, then surely there is somebody out there that can bring a new, more effective scheme to the D.

DON'T WAIT! do it now so we are ready at the onset of next year. rebuild while manning is on the mend.

[rockywoj]

DON'T WAIT! do it now so we are ready at the onset of next year. rebuild while manning is on the mend.

Though the logic of what you advocate is compelling, I really don't agree with knee jerk in year firing of coaches. That's how loser franchises handle things.

With the loss to TB though, I am now transitioning to concluding that this year is indeed lost as far as playoffs go. I think playoff aspirations are now 99% dead. If the Colts lose next week to KC or if they do not win 5 of their next 6 games, make that 100%.

Assuming Manning comes back next year, though, then this year can still prove to be of great benefit, if the Colts look at this as a developmental year. Add in a few good key draft selections and taking care of the FA situation, with the return of Manning, I see the Colts being back to being SuperBowl contenders next year.

[Fatboyslim11]

I love the title to this thread. When Coyer was named our DC after Meeks was let go, I was on the board with one question - WHY? His record at Denver included one good season and nothing after that. He was known for not being able to make in game or in season adjustments. Coyer has not demonstrated that he has what it takes to be a defensive coordinator.

I have not been one of the members highly critical of Caldwell, but his loyalty to people from his past really worries me.

I agree. I don't think Caldwell is conifident in his own ability so he seeks (just as Polian does) subordinates that don't created waves - talent and experience is secondary as long as the subordinates doesn't create a threat. Coyer falls into this category. The best thing for the Colts is to bring in an entirely new coaching staff from the HC on down. We were pitiful with our lack of adjustsments in the Bucs game.

[Rich Cannon]

In Coyer's first year, the defense was much improved than previous. In year two, the defense regressed, but I gave Coyer a too many players injured pass.

This year, though the defense has had its moments, I have lost patience. The scheme is just too darn soft and they fail to make adjustments while offenses continue to adjust and exploit the Colts' soft zones. I am now dubious about how good the defense can ever be with Coyer leading the scheme.

Maybe after the season a defensive revamp will be in order. Why not bring in a guy like Mike Singletary as a DC. If he's not the guy, then surely there is somebody out there that can bring a new, more effective scheme to the D.

My thoughts exactly

[scorptile]

Though the logic of what you advocate is compelling, I really don't agree with knee jerk in year firing of coaches. That's how loser franchises handle things.

With the loss to TB though, I am now transitioning to concluding that this year is indeed lost as far as playoffs go. I think playoff aspirations are now 99% dead. If the Colts lose next week to KC or if they do not win 5 of their next 6 games, make that 100%.

Assuming Manning comes back next year, though, then this year can still prove to be of great benefit, if the Colts look at this as a developmental year. Add in a few good key draft selections and taking care of the FA situation, with the return of Manning, I see the Colts being back to being SuperBowl contenders next year.

Though the logic of what you advocate is compelling, I really don't agree with knee jerk in year firing of coaches. That's how loser franchises handle things.

With the loss to TB though, I am now transitioning to concluding that this year is indeed lost as far as playoffs go. I think playoff aspirations are now 99% dead. If the Colts lose next week to KC or if they do not win 5 of their next 6 games, make that 100%.

Assuming Manning comes back next year, though, then this year can still prove to be of great benefit, if the Colts look at this as a developmental year. Add in a few good key draft selections and taking care of the FA situation, with the return of Manning, I see the Colts being back to being SuperBowl contenders next year.

i think firing of coaches is what this team needs though. first year caldwell took this team to the superbowl and the defense was ok. the coaching and the team has regressed to the point of potentially 0-16 what does that tell ya? im thinking the whole thing is a set up this year to get a new head coach and a new set of coaches and schemes. the manning era is basically over i do believe now and we are in transition to the next era.

[Happy2BeHere]

I "HIGHLY"..."HIGHLY" doubt you'll see ANY coaching changes in Indy this year...this organization has to much pride (also known as stupidity) to make changes in the middle of a season. Once the season is over I'd still say we'd be lucky to see any changes because they signed these coaches to deals and it's about giving them time to improve and that's the pride (also known as stupidity) that this organization has for it's coaches.

I feel bad for all us Colts fans on the sidelines but seriously...we will get a great draft pick because of the pride (also known as stupidity) of the Colts coaching staff and front office decision makers. So with such a great draft pick coming in next years draft and the new class of draftees looking mighty wealthy (in talent) I am looking forward to next year already! In the mean-time I am going to route for the Texans to win the SB because they've worked so hard and were willing to make the coaching changes necessary to get where they want to be. If the Texans don't win it then I wouldn't mind seeing the Raiders, Lions, or even the Ravens.

GO COLTS!

[Jason_]

I was thinking that all last season, he loves qb's and i can recall someone saying he would love to be on the team that gets andrew luck to develop him.... but then again isnt john a tampa 2 defense guy?

No I wouldn't call Gruden a tampa 2 guy. They ran the tampa 2 while he was in Tampa but that was because it was the defense built by dungy and kiffin and kiffin was still there running it. I'm sure he has a better understanding of it than a lot of other head coaches but I definitely wouldn't say it's "his" defense that he would run.

yes a tweak is needed, i wonder if coaches have noticed even yet this morning that tampa might just throw

to that 12 yard soft spot where 90 % of other nfl teams have there linebackers! also this is a little off topic

but did anyone else think that gruden was a little extra hard on our staff and scheme last night. almost as if

he were lobbying for the job. kinda the vibe i got.

I didn't get the he was lobbying for the job...I think he was just as frustrated at it as the rest of us, especially since he came from the team where it was "created". He understands that you can't continue to run that soft a zone and expect to get any kind of stop.

And thats the thing i think the colts are concerned about... IF they were to change schemes how would freeney, mathis and guys like that fit in the scheme? and what type of scheme would it be? definitley cant be a 3-4 altough it seems like the colts do have the LB's for it now with bringing A.J.... the colts just need to tweak the defense more if anytihing... stay away from the tampa 2 as much as they can.

But that's the thing..they don't have to do a major overhaul. Just running a base cover 2 instead of tampa 2 would make a world of difference. Every time they drop angry pat back deep, the QB sees it and dumps it over the middle. Takes less than 3 seconds and I think they even pointed that out at one point during the game. If you keep pat at the LB level then the holes in the zone will open up behind him instead of in front of him. This is going to take longer to develop and give the pass rush more time to get to the QB or at least disrupt the pocket. Essentially this is the defense Chicago runs...very close to the tampa 2 but different enough in that the short/middle zone isn't wide open every play.

[Smitto]

No I wouldn't call Gruden a tampa 2 guy. They ran the tampa 2 while he was in Tampa but that was because it was the defense built by dungy and kiffin and kiffin was still there running it. I'm sure he has a better understanding of it than a lot of other head coaches but I definitely wouldn't say it's "his" defense that he would run.

I didn't get the he was lobbying for the job...I think he was just as frustrated at it as the rest of us, especially since he came from the team where it was "created". He understands that you can't continue to run that soft a zone and expect to get any kind of stop.

But that's the thing..they don't have to do a major overhaul. Just running a base cover 2 instead of tampa 2 would make a world of difference. Every time they drop angry pat back deep, the QB sees it and dumps it over the middle. Takes less than 3 seconds and I think they even pointed that out at one point during the game. If you keep pat at the LB level then the holes in the zone will open up behind him instead of in front of him. This is going to take longer to develop and give the pass rush more time to get to the QB or at least disrupt the pocket. Essentially this is the defense Chicago runs...very close to the tampa 2 but different enough in that the short/middle zone isn't wide open every play.

I dont know i really dont think the colts would be much different if gruden was coaching and they kept that scheme, though he did say the tampa 2 scheme is not working for the colts... i think the colts woes are because of the scheme AND of the type of players the colts draft and where they get them... and i think thats a fact when you put so much money in your offense you have no other choice..

it also helps the bears to have GOLIATH right in the middle playing MLB for you.

[indy_nick]

The fact of the matter is that this is a copy-cat league. The league always goes through trends. The Tampa 2 was some what successful for a while. Then teams started to figure out how to beat it. They figured out where the holes were. Then other teams watch that film and mimic the results. We need to move on. We don't have the personnel to switch to a 3-4 defense, so I'm not sure what we are supposed to do at this point.

[Jason_]

I dont know i really dont think the colts would be much different if gruden was coaching and they kept that scheme, though he did say the tampa 2 scheme is not working for the colts... i think the colts woes are because of the scheme AND of the type of players the colts draft and where they get them... and i think thats a fact when you put so much money in your offense you have no other choice..

it also helps the bears to have GOLIATH right in the middle playing MLB for you.

that's the thing...I don't think he'd keep the scheme, or at least mix it up a lot more and probably save the tampa 2 for 3rd and very long. I agree about the bears, all the more reason to give consideration to drafting Manti Te'o in the coming draft. However, the way he's been playing I think angerer would be a very good cover 2 MIKE, even if he is still a bit undersized.

[Quantum88]

First, there will be no change in coaching staff during the year. I agree strongly that response is the hallmark of losers. With that said, I certainly that Coyer is gone after the season.

Second, I think Gruden is right where he belongs - in the broadcast booth. The fact that he recognized a problem that any junior high school player would recognize does not make him head coach material. He got fired because his players hated him and would not play for him. That is the last thing we need with the quality of players we have on this team.

[OJl]

Its not enough that Manning is out but how frustrating is the soft defense we play. Linebackers playing 15-17 yards off. If thats the kind of safe zone we have to play then it doesnt say much at all about our secondary. I personally would rather see our secondary earn thier stripes than linebackers playing so safe. Those short dump passes that the bucks are completing are killing me.

Larry Coyer has done NOTHING to change the perception, the reality, or the results of this defense to this point. Seriously, what has changed since changing DCs from Ron Meeks to Larry Coyer? Coyer was supposed to change things up with more timely blitzes and force more turnovers. Still..........wait..........ing. Every so often, we will bring an A gap blitz, big whoop!

The defense still can't stop the run on a regular basis. The secondary is non-existent. The front 7 has been up and down. And just like under Meeks, if Freeney and Mathis can't get to the QB in 2 seconds, watch out. You're pulling Angerer 17 yards off the ball during a 2 minute drive in the 2nd quarter? REALLY??? I wouldn't do that on Madden! The defense is just plain pathetic right now - Freeney and Mathis aside (and Nevis and sometimes Angerer and Conner).

[John Waylon]

Coyer's defense

Now THERE is an oxymoron.

[Coltsman1788]

In Leyman's terms, Coyer Sucks

Agreed. The man destroyed the Bronco's secondary and he is doing the same in Indy.

[chad72]

We don't have the personnel to switch to a 3-4 defense, so I'm not sure what we are supposed to do at this point.

You know what, that is the same decision that Mike McCarthy had to deal with. He fired six coaches including Bob Sanders after 2008, his 4-3 D coach, under which Aaron Kampman became a stud in his 4-3. They were not getting enough pressure with his 4-3 and were not closing games out in 2008. He then went to the 3-4 in 2009, sifted through growing pains, and in 2010 with better QB play and a year under the system, turned it around with Dom Capers as his DC. They released Aaron Kampman because he did not fit and they drafted real well. Two years is what it took.

3-4 D:

NTs and DEs: we can mix it up like Wade Philips' system does. Draft that 3-4 NT in the middle, use Drake Nevis and/or AJ as the Jay Ratliff kind of NT in the middle rotated along with the drafted NT in the middle. Use Moala, Anderson and Brayton as 3-4 DEs that play containment, Moala played that for USC for about 2 years at least.

LBs: Freeney, Mathis, Hughes, and Wheeler can be our LBs with Hughes and Wheeler on the outside??? Freeney can line up vs the guards on the inside where he will have an athletic advantage, will be like the stunts Coyer uses, but without the stunts, you know what I mean . You could even move Freeney around like you move Terrell Suggs with the Ravens as far as where he lines up, who is a DE/LB kind. Mathis might be the odd man out and may need to be traded (like the Packers released Kampman) and we go after a couple of good 3-4 LBs in the draft and develop them.

CBs and safety: We need more man coverage CBs, goes without saying, and I feel Lefeged will be fine, with more years under his belt as the safety opposite Bethea.

[CR91]

i was literally screaming at my tv everytime the bucs kept running the same play to pick up 7 yards