are the patriots in trouble

[Gavin]

Yes it does.

Pathetic can be used in different ways, Pathetic effort,, Pathetic excuse for a individual, worthless , miserable, useless, Its a word that can be used to imply many different circumstances and feelings http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pathetic

[AntonMcG]

Pathetic can be used in different ways, Pathetic effort,, Pathetic excuse for a individual, worthless , miserable, useless, Its a word that can be used to imply many different circumstances and feelings http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pathetic

 

Ugh, believe me... I have a sufficient grasp of the English language and am fully aware of the different interpretations of the word 'pathetic'... but context dictates interpretation, and in context 'pathetic' implies helplessness.

 

By all means though, feel free to recite the alphabet to me to ensure I am not getting my e's and i's mixed up.

[amfootball]

Pathetic can be used in different ways, Pathetic effort,, Pathetic excuse for a individual, worthless , miserable, useless, Its a word that can be used to imply many different circumstances and feelings http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pathetic

Right. It does not mean helpless literally or implied.

[JimJaime]

Other than Ben Watson (TE) not really. Maybe Deion but it's not like he looked much better in his return to NE than he did in SEA. Moss was a stud before Brady. 

 

Made Caldwell look good,David Givens, Gaffney, RESURRECTED Moss (who stunk in Oak and again when he left), Branch, Gronk, Hernandez,Watson Do I need to continue? Every WR been with Brady had a good year with a few exceptions.

Brady like Manning makes the WR BETTER on his team.

 

That said losing Hernandez is the only UNFORSEEN loss. And with Ballard,the Hawiian TE, and Fells I think they will be fine. Maybe not #1 or #2 seed but playoff and division champs.. as Long as #12 behind center the O will always be in the top 10 in the league.

[JimJaime]

I could think of many adjectives I would use before 'sad' to describe this situation with Hernandez. Pathetic implies helplessness... he was perfectly cognizant of his actions... it was not out of desperation.

 

Frankly I am sick of the theme of this story revolving around what Hernandez through away, as opposed to the tragedy attached to its victim.

 

Modern media and its obsession with celebrity....

Don't watch the trial then, because I guarantee the victim will be sent through the mud.  As for AH what a dope, when I first heard the story breaking I thought for sure was going be another Ray Lewis case where one of his buddies goes down for murder.. not in a MILLION years i think Hernandez be up for Muder ONE.

 

IF Hernandez is guilty and PLANNED this crime.. he should go down as the DUMBEST CRIMINAL MASTERMIND EVER!!!!  (And rot in jail for even longer.) I mean kill the guy less than a mile from your house, leave a car rented in your name at the crime scene oh with the keys in the vics pocket..also  lets leave him in the parking lot out in the open and keep gun casing in the car when we try to RETURN the vehicle.  The Police had be shocked how STUPID this crime was planned...

 

That said I pray Odin Lloyd family survives the beating his name will take in court and are able to find closer by the end of this hole media circus of a case. I also hope the TRUTH is found and the ALL the guilty parties face justice.

 

When all said and done the Patriots will still play football and life for us will go on, but for one man (Odin Lloyd) and two families life has been changed forever. (Lets not forget AH fiancee and 8 month old girl who did nothing to have their lives shattered forever as well.. AH truly Bleeped the ones he loved.)

[Tony Sullivan]

Made Caldwell look good,David Givens, Gaffney, RESURRECTED Moss (who stunk in Oak and again when he left), Branch, Gronk, Hernandez,Watson Do I need to continue? Every WR been with Brady had a good year with a few exceptions.

Brady like Manning makes the WR BETTER on his team.

 

That said losing Hernandez is the only UNFORSEEN loss. And with Ballard,the Hawiian TE, and Fells I think they will be fine. Maybe not #1 or #2 seed but playoff and division champs.. as Long as #12 behind center the O will always be in the top 10 in the league.

 

Between Givens, Caldwell, and Gaffney, they have 0 pro bowls with Brady. Gaffney had his best years after he LEFT New England.

 

I wouldn't classify most of those players as good, or be proud to use them as an example of players Brady "made."

[AntonMcG]

Right. It does not mean helpless literally or implied.

 

Fine, continue to be wrong.

[amfootball]

Fine, continue to be wrong.

You know for a guy that was just saying we should be remembering the victim in this whole mess you sure are being a you know what about a defintiion of a word. It really does not matter what pathetic means or implies as I told you I have no sympathy for Hernandez BUT this is a thread about the Pats being in trouble given his release so naturally the flow of thought would be on him and the team and not the victim although he has been mentioned as well.

[ViriLudant]

Between Givens, Caldwell, and Gaffney, they have 0 pro bowls with Brady. Gaffney had his best years after he LEFT New England.

I wouldn't classify most of those players as good, or be proud to use them as an example of players Brady "made."

ROFL at Pro Bowls being what determines your point.

You could simply look at stats; with the exception of Gaffney at Washington, who basically became the team's #1 / #2, the other WRs all were light years better as Patriots.

[JimJaime]

Between Givens, Caldwell, and Gaffney, they have 0 pro bowls with Brady. Gaffney had his best years after he LEFT New England.

 

I wouldn't classify most of those players as good, or be proud to use them as an example of players Brady "made."

He didn't MAKE them, he made them LOOK better than they really are.. Just like P Manning does, but alas I think you missed my point.

[GoPats]

Whatever you say.  Read through my posts, and you'll see that I've not once badmouthed the Pats, or their chances. 

 

I think you are nuts, though, if you imagine that grown men aren't affected by having a colleague busted for murder, especially when it is now looking like he had possibly already killed 2 people, and was playing football alongside them for a whole year, like nothing had happened.  I know I would be creeped out if it was one of my colleagues (but I suppose that makes me a member of the junior high girls' swim team).  And I think you are nuts if you imagine this is something you can "contain" like the spygate scandal or some other insignificant media circus the team has faced in the past.

 

I don't frankly care if the Pats are affected or not.  I think they will more than likely weather it just fine either way.  I certainly don't agree with any assessment that the loss of AH will have that much of an impact.  I just don't buy the theory that it'll just blow over by September, and everyone will simply play as if they never even met the guy.

 

Well, I'll tell you what... I'll just respect your opinion without referring to it as "nuts." ;)

 

I don't know what, exactly, you think is going to happen this fall. Reporters are not going to hound Brady and company on a week-in, week-out basis. There will be questions at first, they will be tactfully avoided like the Patriots always do, and eventually the questions stop. The Hernandez story will stay in everyone's consciousness until he gets his trial, but you're going to get, "I don't really have anything to say about that" and "I can't really comment on a guy who is not on our team" and "we're just focused on football right now, and trying to win games" quotes.

 

But whatever, it's a divergence of opinion about something that neither of us can really control. 

[Jay Kirk]

I guarantee one thing ,if it does cause them problems, and it will.Your not going to lose 2 TEs of that caliber and not miss them.They will go with what they have adapt ,and not make excuses !

[JimJaime]

I guarantee one thing ,if it does cause them problems, and it will.Your not going to lose 2 TEs of that caliber and not miss them.They will go with what they have adapt ,and not make excuses !

IF BOTH Gronk AND Hernandez were gone, you are 100% correct. I am praying Gronk is back and healthy and tearing the league up once again in September. But no team can lose to ALL Pro caliber players and not have a hick-up at least. But no excuses will be made I am sure.

[GoPats]

I could think of many adjectives I would use before 'sad' to describe this situation with Hernandez. Pathetic implies helplessness... he was perfectly cognizant of his actions... it was not out of desperation.

 

Frankly I am sick of the theme of this story revolving around what Hernandez through away, as opposed to the tragedy attached to its victim.

 

Modern media and its obsession with celebrity....

 

 

Anton im out of likes,but this is a great point.The victim was robbed of everything,along with all his loved ones and friends.

 

Oh, c'mon guys... I know you may not agree with AM as a poster, and maybe you don't like him, but to twist his comment into this is completely unfair. He's not sympathizing with a possible murderer. It's pretty cheesy to try to paint that picture, and completely transparent on your part. I seriously doubt either of you would say the same thing if a Colts fan had made the same exact comment.

[Jay Kirk]

I  think Gronk will play some but cant see his body holding up.       

[Jay Kirk]

Oh, c'mon guys... I know you may not agree with AM as a poster, and maybe you don't like him, but to twist his comment into this is completely unfair. He's not sympathizing with a possible murderer. It's pretty cheesy to try to paint that picture, and completely transparent on your part. I seriously doubt either of you would say the same thing if a Colts fan had made the same exact comment.

IM at a loss here ?Paint the picture your reffering to  :hmm: I was simply responding to the point Anton made about the victims not to AM

[schwamm]

Well, I'll tell you what... I'll just respect your opinion without referring to it as "nuts." ;)

I don't know what, exactly, you think is going to happen this fall. Reporters are not going to hound Brady and company on a week-in, week-out basis. There will be questions at first, they will be tactfully avoided like the Patriots always do, and eventually the questions stop. The Hernandez story will stay in everyone's consciousness until he gets his trial, but you're going to get, "I don't really have anything to say about that" and "I can't really comment on a guy who is not on our team" and "we're just focused on football right now, and trying to win games" quotes.

But whatever, it's a divergence of opinion about something that neither of us can really control.

So is this defensiveness, or poor reading comprehension?

I have not implied that the Pats' performance on the field would suffer. I have not suggested that anyone would somehow miss AH. And I've definitely not suggested that the problems would stem from media posing questions at a podium.

If the media will have an impact, it's this: this trial will be in the news almost daily for a long time to come. Players will watch the news, and they will discuss the news amongst themselves. That's a fact. Where my opinion starts is that knowing you've worked closely alongside someone who was allegedly actively killing people while you were striving towards common goals has an effect on you. I know it would give me the heeby-jeebies.

I also don't see how (in light of odd conversations with Welker, and Tebow possibly helping cover up a fight in college) it can be assumed that the Pats' players will be insulated from participation in the trial. Any and every interaction they've had with AH could potentially be germane to the cases of either the defense or the prosecution, and BB will not be able to insulate his team from subpoenas.

[GoPats]

So is this defensiveness, or poor reading comprehension?

I have not implied that the Pats' performance on the field would suffer. I have not suggested that anyone would somehow miss AH. And I've definitely not suggested that the problems would stem from media posing questions at a podium.

If the media will have an impact, it's this: this trial will be in the news almost daily for a long time to come. Players will watch the news, and they will discuss the news amongst themselves. That's a fact. Where my opinion starts is that knowing you've worked closely alongside someone who was allegedly actively killing people while you were striving towards common goals has an effect on you. I know it would give me the heeby-jeebies.

I also don't see how (in light of odd conversations with Welker, and Tebow possibly helping cover up a fight in college) it can be assumed that the Pats' players will be insulated from participation in the trial. Any and every interaction they've had with AH could potentially be germane to the cases of either the defense or the prosecution, and BB will not be able to insulate his team from subpoenas.

 

I really don't understand your misplaced animosity here. Are you always this aggressive when people respectfully disagree with you? No need for the condescending, insulting tone. K?

 

You're lashing out at me (and others) for our apparent lack of understanding of your opinion, but the more you post the less clear it is what you're trying to say.

 

YOU: "I have not implied that the Pats' performance on the field would suffer."

 

Didn't think you were saying that anyway, and I'm not sure why you think I did. At this point I guess I have no clue what you're trying to say. That it's going to "get in their heads" and mess them all up? Yet not on the field? So what's the point then?

 

YOU: "If the media will have an impact, it's this: this trial will be in the news almost daily for a long time to come. Players will watch the news, and they will discuss the news amongst themselves. That's a fact."

 

That's fact? Really? Do you have dinner at the Brady-Bunchden house every Tuesday night or something? You're probably right, of course they'll follow along, but so will every person in the country. Discussing the heinous actions of a former teammate would be the natural course of things in this particular situation. But they're not going to do that in quarterback meetings when they're trying to prepare for the Ravens, or the Broncos, or whoever.

 

YOU: "Where my opinion starts is that knowing you've worked closely alongside someone who was allegedly actively killing people while you were striving towards common goals has an effect on you. I know it would give me the heeby-jeebies."

 

OK, so... your point then? The Patriots will collectively have the "heeby-jeebies." Does that make a guy questionable or probable on the injury report? ;)

 

YOU: "I also don't see how (in light of odd conversations with Welker, and Tebow possibly helping cover up a fight in college) it can be assumed that the Pats' players will be insulated from participation in the trial. Any and every interaction they've had with AH could potentially be germane to the cases of either the defense or the prosecution, and BB will not be able to insulate his team from subpoenas."

 

Perhaps, I don't know. Neither do you though. There are certainly other means within the legal system (depositions) to get information from people who are familiar with a defendant. Tebow was an eye-witness to the incident in Florida. Maybe he would be called in. Maybe the defense will try to get players to come in as character witnesses. I have no idea. But I'm pretty sure they don't have court on Sundays, and they aren't going to isolate witnesses in this case. By all accounts, this shocked the entire organization from Kraft right on down to the guys who work the parking lot. I'm pretty sure that, while they may have known Hernandez ran with bad people and was a jerk in general, no one had a clue how bad a person he really was.

 

 

 

And again... try not to make condescending assumptions about me. Once you get to know me, there will be plenty of time for that.

[GoPats]

IM at a loss here ?Paint the picture your reffering to  :hmm: I was simply responding to the point Anton made about the victims not to AM

 

My apologies to you then. I misinterpreted your post where you quoted Anton. 

 

Lloyd is, literally, the victim here. Not Hernandez. We all agree there, even us thick-headed Pats fans.

[JimJaime]

My apologies to you then. I misinterpreted your post where you quoted Anton. 

 

Lloyd is, literally, the victim here. Not Hernandez. We all agree there, even us thick-headed Pats fans.

 

Lloyd and HIS entire family are the victims.. I can't begin to imagine what his parents are going through... Its a rule for Parents you are never ever suppose to bury your child they are suppose to bury you. (Though as a parent I guess I feel for AH little 8 month old girl whose life got shattered as well..)

[schwamm]

I really don't understand your misplaced animosity here. Are you always this aggressive when people respectfully disagree with you? No need for the condescending, insulting tone. K?

You're lashing out at me (and others) for our apparent lack of understanding of your opinion, but the more you post the less clear it is what you're trying to say.

YOU: "I have not implied that the Pats' performance on the field would suffer."

Didn't think you were saying that anyway, and I'm not sure why you think I did. At this point I guess I have no clue what you're trying to say. That it's going to "get in their heads" and mess them all up? Yet not on the field? So what's the point then?

YOU: "If the media will have an impact, it's this: this trial will be in the news almost daily for a long time to come. Players will watch the news, and they will discuss the news amongst themselves. That's a fact."

That's fact? Really? Do you have dinner at the Brady-Bunchden house every Tuesday night or something? You're probably right, of course they'll follow along, but so will every person in the country. Discussing the heinous actions of a former teammate would be the natural course of things in this particular situation. But they're not going to do that in quarterback meetings when they're trying to prepare for the Ravens, or the Broncos, or whoever.

YOU: "Where my opinion starts is that knowing you've worked closely alongside someone who was allegedly actively killing people while you were striving towards common goals has an effect on you. I know it would give me the heeby-jeebies."

OK, so... your point then? The Patriots will collectively have the "heeby-jeebies." Does that make a guy questionable or probable on the injury report? ;)

YOU: "I also don't see how (in light of odd conversations with Welker, and Tebow possibly helping cover up a fight in college) it can be assumed that the Pats' players will be insulated from participation in the trial. Any and every interaction they've had with AH could potentially be germane to the cases of either the defense or the prosecution, and BB will not be able to insulate his team from subpoenas."

Perhaps, I don't know. Neither do you though. There are certainly other means within the legal system (depositions) to get information from people who are familiar with a defendant. Tebow was an eye-witness to the incident in Florida. Maybe he would be called in. Maybe the defense will try to get players to come in as character witnesses. I have no idea. But I'm pretty sure they don't have court on Sundays, and they aren't going to isolate witnesses in this case. By all accounts, this shocked the entire organization from Kraft right on down to the guys who work the parking lot. I'm pretty sure that, while they may have known Hernandez ran with bad people and was a jerk in general, no one had a clue how bad a person he really was.

And again... try not to make condescending assumptions about me. Once you get to know me, there will be plenty of time for that.

Fair enough. You are the 4th Pats fan poster who has suggested I've implied something I haven't. I'm getting tired of getting accused of saying something other than what I've written, so I was responding to more than just you. You were just the most recent example of someone putting words in my mouth, and it has gotten annoying.

I agree it'll have little if any impact on Sundays, and have said as much repeatedly. I was being sympathetic to the journey the men in the locker room will need to take, as opposed to making insinuations about how that journey might impact their play (which is unknowable, IMO). My bad.

I'm more comfortable bashing everything about the Pats, and apparently several of you are more comfortable assuming that is my intention here, so let's just return to that, then.

[JimJaime]

Fair enough. You are the 4th Pats fan poster who has suggested I've implied something I haven't. I'm getting tired of getting accused of saying something other than what I've written, so I was responding to more than just you. You were just the most recent example of someone putting words in my mouth, and it has gotten annoying.

I agree it'll have little if any impact on Sundays, and have said as much repeatedly. I was being sympathetic to the journey the men in the locker room will need to take, as opposed to making insinuations about how that journey might impact their play (which is unknowable, IMO). My bad.

I'm more comfortable bashing everything about the Pats, and apparently several of you are more comfortable assuming that is my intention here, so let's just return to that, then.

Scwamm,

 

We ALL have topics like this where things are twisted or taken out of context or interpreted COMPLETELY WRONG! don't let it bother ya, life is to short and we are all here just to discuss our fav sport in football and our favorite teams. So sit back and LAUGH when people do this to ya, its a lot better than getting frustrated TRUST ME... and hey have a great 4th...

[schwamm]

Scwamm,

 

We ALL have topics like this where things are twisted or taken out of context or interpreted COMPLETELY WRONG! don't let it bother ya, life is to short and we are all here just to discuss our fav sport in football and our favorite teams. So sit back and LAUGH when people do this to ya, its a lot better than getting frustrated TRUST ME... and hey have a great 4th...

wiser sentiments have seldom been so eloquently offered.

[amfootball]

wiser sentiments have seldom been so eloquently offered.

Your avatar is beautiful. Love the tag line too. :-)

[schwamm]

Your avatar is beautiful. Love the tag line too. :-)

Yeah, I especially find the Colts shirt to be critical to the "beauty". 

[JimJaime]

Yeah, I especially find the Colts shirt to be critical to the "beauty". 

lol I totally missed the Colt Shirt lol.. very beautiful pick.... I should use my 2 kids as my avatar.. if I ever figure it out lol

[-JJ-]

lol I totally missed the Colt Shirt lol.. very beautiful pick.... I should use my 2 kids as my avatar.. if I ever figure it out lol

At least get rid of the colts avatar lol ;)

[schwamm]

At least get rid of the colts avatar lol ;)

So just out of curiosity... what is with the "S" in the middle of that default avi?

[That Guy]

So just out of curiosity... what is with the "S" in the middle of that default avi?

That is the Coltstrong logo (used to be Chuckstrong)

[GoPats]

Lloyd and HIS entire family are the victims.. I can't begin to imagine what his parents are going through... Its a rule for Parents you are never ever suppose to bury your child they are suppose to bury you. (Though as a parent I guess I feel for AH little 8 month old girl whose life got shattered as well..)

 

No doubt, could not agree more. There was a very tragic death in my extended family two years ago, my cousin's 18-year-old daughter... it was the worst. My cousin is doing well but obviously will carry that grief with her until the end of her days. Nothing is worse than when a parent outlives their child. I also experienced this in my own family last year when my 49-year-old sister passed away. My 82-year-old mother is still reeling from it.

[schwamm]

That is the Coltstrong logo (used to be Chuckstrong)

gotcha.  didn't realize the movement had a logo.

[GoPats]

Fair enough. You are the 4th Pats fan poster who has suggested I've implied something I haven't. I'm getting tired of getting accused of saying something other than what I've written, so I was responding to more than just you. You were just the most recent example of someone putting words in my mouth, and it has gotten annoying.

I agree it'll have little if any impact on Sundays, and have said as much repeatedly. I was being sympathetic to the journey the men in the locker room will need to take, as opposed to making insinuations about how that journey might impact their play (which is unknowable, IMO). My bad.

I'm more comfortable bashing everything about the Pats, and apparently several of you are more comfortable assuming that is my intention here, so let's just return to that, then.

 

I'm not a confrontational guy... I try to project the same online persona that you would get if we were sitting down having a beer. That was my only point with any of the comments I may have made.

 

Like I said I totally respect your opinion on it, I really do.

 

Cheers, and have a safe and happy 4th, to you and yours...

[Mitch]

Patriots will be fine. As long as they have Brady I can't see them losing that division. 

[-JJ-]

So just out of curiosity... what is with the "S" in the middle of that default avi?

No idea. I figured cus' the colts spent a lot:)

[AntonMcG]

Oh, c'mon guys... I know you may not agree with AM as a poster, and maybe you don't like him, but to twist his comment into this is completely unfair. He's not sympathizing with a possible murderer. It's pretty cheesy to try to paint that picture, and completely transparent on your part. I seriously doubt either of you would say the same thing if a Colts fan had made the same exact comment.

 

 

I would and I have.

[AntonMcG]

You know for a guy that was just saying we should be remembering the victim in this whole mess you sure are being a you know what about a defintiion of a word. It really does not matter what pathetic means or implies as I told you I have no sympathy for Hernandez BUT this is a thread about the Pats being in trouble given his release so naturally the flow of thought would be on him and the team and not the victim although he has been mentioned as well.

 

Okay, so can you direct me to the Odin Lloyd condolences page?

 

The media is a lot more concerned about the profile of the murderer and the affect this will have on the Patriots than they are about the victim, and the majority of the public follow their lead. It is sickening what mainstream media has become.

[amfootball]

Okay, so can you direct me to the Odin Lloyd condolences page?

 

The media is a lot more concerned about the profile of the murderer and the affect this will have on the Patriots than they are about the victim, and the majority of the public follow their lead. It is sickening what mainstream media has become.

I worked in public relations for 12 years. The mainstream media will never change. Their job is to write what will sell. And well I agree with you that our sympathies should be with Odin, no one is going to care to read article after article on a semi-pro player who no one had heard of prior to his death at the hands of a celebrity. That is the way the ball rolls. Public interest is always going to be toward the celebriity and by the way this is not wrong but just natural human curiosity.

 

What I would encourage you to do is to stay from the mainstream media and read the great blogs out there on this situation and on Odin. Some folks have written some really wonderful stuff. It is great to be in 2013 where we are not subjected to mainstream media solely but can also go to other sources for information and opinion.

[AntonMcG]

I worked in public relations for 12 years. The mainstream media will never change. Their job is to write what will sell. And well I agree with you that our sympathies should be with Odin, no one is going to care to read article after article on a semi-pro player who no one had heard of prior to his death at the hands of a celebrity. That is the way the ball rolls. Public interest is always going to be toward the celebriity and by the way this is not wrong but just natural human curiosity.

 

What I would encourage you to do is to stay from the mainstream media and read the great blogs out there on this situation and on Odin. Some folks have written some really wonderful stuff. It is great to be in 2013 where we are not subjected to mainstream media solely but can also go to other sources for information and opinion.

 

Incorrect, it is not 'natural human curiosity' it is a sociological mindset that develops from growing up in the modern Western World which relies heavily on media to create opinions and analysis. There is nothing natural about it.

 

I believe I am tuned in enough to not take everything I read at its word, therefore I continue to follow popular media as it is often my only resource for knowing what is going on throughout the world... but that does not remedy my disillusion with people having these almost robotic impulses to follow what is considered the flavor of the week, and ignore things the deserve their attention.

[amfootball]

Incorrect, it is not 'natural human curiosity' it is a sociological mindset that develops from growing up in the modern Western World which relies heavily on media to create opinions and analysis. There is nothing natural about it.

 

I believe I am tuned in enough to not take everything I read at its word, therefore I continue to follow popular media as it is often my only resource for knowing what is going on throughout the world... but that does not remedy my disillusion with people having these almost robotic impulses to follow what is considered the flavor of the week, and ignore things the deserve their attention.

Ok, so your issue is with the West. You could not be more wrong. Westerners do not rely heavily on the media to create their opinions and analysis. The blogosphere that developed this past decade is a serious affront to mainstream media. Right now in the US more than 30 percent of all information is written by citizens – you and me. In the next five years, it is expected to reach 50 percent if not higher. No one here is blind to the messages of mainstream media and like you, most understand to take everything they read with a grain of salt.

 

I would not take comments you read on a chat board on an ESPN article as representative of the West and its thinking on anything.

[bayone]

wasnt this a thread on are the Pats in Trouble, guess like all topics , things get a life of their own and go off on tangents as the comments come in and are rebutted

 

Lets all have a happy 4th of July

 

I for one plan on having for a change a relaxing day in my 71 rag top just out of storage yesterday